Potassium Citrate >24 hour fasting (40+ hrs)

[Joseph1990]

After doing some googling its actually hard to find a lot of info on how much potassium citrate to take while fasting.

I see recommendations of 1,000 - 3,000mg.

All potassium citrate pills come in 99mg or less and bottles say to only take 1 per day without consulting a physician.

What's the deal?

[Heisman2]

Why are you fasting? How long do you intend to fast? Why do you feel like you even need to take potassium while fasting?

[Joseph1990]

Why are you fasting? How long do you intend to fast? Why do you feel like you even need to take potassium while fasting?

It's recommended to take potassium when fasting no?

Potassium excretion is rapid during the early part of fasting and then tapers off to a constant level of about 10 to 15 mEq/day.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...n%20catabolism.

[Heisman2]

As a physician medically speaking we generally never recommend fasting for health reasons. Why are you fasting, for how long, and is this going to be a repeat thing?

[Joseph1990]

As a physician medically speaking we generally never recommend fasting for health reasons. Why are you fasting, for how long, and is this going to be a repeat thing?

I have been doing small edit*** 18-22 hour fasts most days for the better part of 9 years now. I only just started trying 40 hour fasts once every 2 weeks.

[jtaylor2010]

As a physician medically speaking we generally never recommend fasting for health reasons. Why are you fasting, for how long, and is this going to be a repeat thing?

I understand why you might not tell a patient to do it, but aren’t there significant health benefits from occasional fasting(24-48 hour range)?

[AdamWW]

I have been doing small 8-22 hour fasts most days for the better part of 9 years now. I only just started trying 40 hour fasts once every 2 weeks.

because?

[Heisman2]

I have been doing small 8-22 hour fasts most days for the better part of 9 years now. I only just started trying 40 hour fasts once every 2 weeks.

8-22 hour fasts makes sense as the time-restricted feeding literature (which typically employs 12-20 hour fasts or so) has shown promising results. I don't generally consider it "fasting" though as one would still be eating daily, but that's semantics.

I understand why you might not tell a patient to do it, but aren’t there significant health benefits from occasional fasting(24-48 hour range)?

I've never come across anything to indicate significant health benefits for longer fasting, either in my medical training or my time here. Fasting for extended periods is not going to be a good strategy for muscle growth. For general health purposes if you've seen anything to indicate significant health benefits feel free to provide a link and I'll look through it. Don't get me wrong, there is some promising research in cell culture and animal models (a lot is summarized here: https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...68163716302513), but evidence in actual humans is lacking, and some of the supporting evidence doesn't disentangle the impact of fasting vs weight loss.

[Joseph1990]

because?

Because it's the preferable food consumption schedule for me.

[Joseph1990]

Because it's the preferable food consumption schedule for me.

The longer > 24/hr fasts have been sort of my own experimental thing after reading some articles on it. Not sure how sound the science is but wanted to try it.

[righteousreason]

There's some obscure legal reason they can't sell them in larger sizes. Just break open the caps and dump them into your drink. I usually do 5 at a time.

[AdamWW]

Because it's the preferable food consumption schedule for me.

You prefer not eating for days at a time?

Again, why?

[Joseph1990]

You prefer not eating for days at a time?

Again, why?

Thanks for the help really helpful.

[AdamWW]

Thanks for the help really helpful.

Thanks for the responses very informative

[ExistentialBrah]

I've got dozens of multi day fasts under my belt, ranging between 2-5 days.

You mainly want to make sure you're getting sodium, and I wouldn't even worry about that on a 40 hour fast, thats not nearly long enough to deplete electrolytes unless you're sweating your ass off doing physical labor.

[desslok]

I don't generally consider it "fasting" though as one would still be eating daily, but that's semantics.
.

Ask 100 people get 200 different answers on when a “fast” starts. You missed the best one though, before you got to these forums, someone called what they were doing a famine. Ah the good old days

[AdamWW]

Ask 100 people get 200 different answers on when a “fast” starts. You missed the best one though, before you got to these forums, someone called what they were doing a famine. Ah the good old days

Ah yes, the great intermittent famine of 2005... barely made it out with any gains.

[desslok]

Ah yes, the great intermittent famine of 2005... barely made it out with any gains.

Funny thing i went to find the thread, put in famine in the keyword search and found page after page of threads including “30 hour famine” or “50 hour famine” lol, but finally found the one I remember

https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showt...ghlight=Famine

[Mrpb]

I have been doing small edit*** 18-22 hour fasts most days for the better part of 9 years now. I only just started trying 40 hour fasts once every 2 weeks.

In case you didn't know: fasting for longer than 16 hours will make it harder to build and retain muscle. Even 16 hours fasting makes it a bit harder.

12 hour eating window, 12 hours fasting will do fine. And from what I've seen in the literature you won't be passing up on any significant health benefits that way.

[Mrpb]

8-22 hour fasts makes sense as the time-restricted feeding literature (which typically employs 12-20 hour fasts or so) has shown promising results.

Last time I checked the health benefits were all in (pre) diabetic, sedentary or overweight people.

Are there now studies showing significant health benefits in healthy, relatively lean, exercising individuals from fasting longer than 12 hours? I will need to read them.

[Heisman2]

I compiled non-Ramadan studies of at least 1 week duration through ~June of 2020 in the blue box near the bottom here: https://www.healthierwithscience.com...f-when-we-eat/ if curious.

There aren't really any studies showing significant health benefits in healthy individuals who are exercising well. The only TRF studies I found in individuals that employed resistance training were Tinsley et al in 2016, Moro et al in 2016 (which showed some potential benefits), Tinsley et al 2019, and Stratton et al 2020.

At the same time though, it's going to be really hard if not impossible to find health benefits in healthy individuals as these studies are generally done on a relatively short time scale. If you start with all your blood parameters in a healthy range, how much more healthy can they really get? We'd need longer term trials showing prevention of abnormalities/health issues to know for sure, and that's unlikely to happen.

I don't personally think advocating that healthy people follow a time-restricted feeding protocol is worthwhile if all else is equal, but given it has shown some health benefits in some populations without risks of harms I also don't see a reason to discourage people who want to do it from doing it. They may sacrifice some muscle hypertrophy, how much is hard to say. The last study I included in the blue box which is Jones et al 2020 actually indicates that time-restricted feeding may increase skeletal muscle nutrient sensitivity, though it's a very small study.

My main point above was that one could at least in my mind make a human-evidence based theoretical case for doing time-restricted feeding, I'm not sure the same can be made for longer fasting time periods.

[Mrpb]

If you start with all your blood parameters in a healthy range, how much more healthy can they really get?

Right. That's what I'm thinking too.

As for hypertrophy, both the Moro study and one of the Tinsley studies suggested less hypertrophy with 16/8 IF. The Moro study also found IF decreased testosterone.



blue: IF
orange: normal diet

[righteousreason]

I've got dozens of multi day fasts under my belt, ranging between 2-5 days.

You mainly want to make sure you're getting sodium, and I wouldn't even worry about that on a 40 hour fast, thats not nearly long enough to deplete electrolytes unless you're sweating your ass off doing physical labor.

I've found electrolytes help a LOT with hunger pangs and mental fuzziness when fasting.

Strongly recommend morton's lite salt. Half sodium / half potassium chloride.

[AdamWW]

I've found electrolytes help a LOT with hunger pangs and mental fuzziness when fasting.

Strongly recommend morton's lite salt. Half sodium / half potassium chloride.

Sounds so much better than just eating normally. Sign me up.

[Zschnack87]

What is everyone's fascination with fasting now? I understand the only 6 hour eating window one, but I seen Kevin Smith (Silent Bob), posted something one day bragging about making it 5 days. 5 freaking days! F that man. I'm losing weight and looking good and I'm eating all day. No hunger pains, no "fuzziness", no stress to wait until a certain time to eat.

[Joseph1990]

In case you didn't know: fasting for longer than 16 hours will make it harder to build and retain muscle. Even 16 hours fasting makes it a bit harder.

12 hour eating window, 12 hours fasting will do fine. And from what I've seen in the literature you won't be passing up on any significant health benefits that way.

Everyone is always telling me how fasting is not optimal according to xyz study and I never argue or claim it to begin with.

When it comes to training the most optimal is the one you are actually going to do. Just because chopping wood or swimming laps is the highest calorie burn per minuet or hour does not make it the best choice for everyone. Going for a walk may burn 100x less but if your client will actual go for daily walks but never chop wood or swim for what ever reason walking is in this case superior.

This is the case for myself and fasting. For me fasting is optimal for many reason. Not any you will find in a study. Also I have a better physique then anyone natty ITT and I haven't even lifted in 2+ years and been fasting daily for almost 10.

Now that we have got that out of the way does anyone have anything to add to the question in original post?

Many people think it gives them a sense of pride... like being able to survive on barely any sleep.

Spoiler!

What you think you are










What you actually are.

[Joseph1990]

That mod mogging edit tho.

Haven't been a reg on the Nut sec since AA has fallen. Who's hawkeye modding this section now?

[AdamWW]

That mod mogging edit tho.

Because I reported you for body-shaming me in a post.

I have almost died multiple times since I started lifting, I'm very, very proud of my body.

The fact that I am fit, lean, and able to lift as a hobby I love at age 35 is nothing short of a miracle.

I have struggled off and on with a severe eating disorder for almost 17 years now, and while YOU might not like how I look, I do... and plenty of other people do as well. I'll continue to make progress, and you can continue thinking whatever you want... it has no bearing on me whatsoever.

I would suggest you stop comparing my appearance to yours, and hopefully teach your kid/kids not to body shame either.

If you have objective statements to make, fine... but your opinion on my appearance means nothing.

The fact that you're 30 years old and you insult people's bodies is truly stunning to me... it's the stuff of a high-school bully, not a grown man and a father.

Shame on you... not on my body.

[Joseph1990]

Because I reported you for body-shaming me in a post.

I have almost died multiple times since I started lifting, I'm very, very proud of my body.

The fact that I am fit, lean, and able to lift as a hobby I love at age 35 is nothing short of a miracle.

I have struggled off and on with a severe eating disorder for almost 17 years now, and while YOU might not like how I look, I do... and plenty of other people do as well. I'll continue to make progress, and you can continue thinking whatever you want... it has no bearing on me whatsoever.

I would suggest you stop comparing my appearance to yours, and hopefully teach your kid/kids not to body shame either.

If you have objective statements to make, fine... but your opinion on my appearance means nothing.

The fact that you're 30 years old and you insult people's bodies is truly stunning to me... it's the stuff of a high-school bully, not a grown man and a father.

Shame on you... not on my body.

You're so busy putting blame and accusations on others you can't see yourself.

Look at all this time and energy you have wasted ITT because you're high and mighty attitude.

Strong lack of reading comprehension. I had a caveat prior to "body shaming" That caveat being you started the ad hominem insulting not me. I was internationally being facetious in response to you initially insulting me while going so over the top childish also intentionally to highlight how stupid and childish it is to result to personal attacks.

Clearly you have mental health issues putting up mental barriers in your mind preventing you from seeing how the world turns and it nearly ended your life as you say. Seems like whatever demons plague your mind are still there and they have deeper roots then merely body dysmorphia.

The OP is clear in asking for information regarding fasting nothing to do with optimal muscle retention during weight loss or anything else but you and others felt the need to attempt to educate me on something irrelevant to the OP that I never claimed contrary too. Maybe if you stuck to the topic instead of making pompous assumptions about my intent your feelings wouldn't have had to get hurt on the internet oh noes!

The best part about all this is you still felt the need to underhandedly undermined my ability to be a father.

Spoiler!

[AdamWW]

You're so busy putting blame and accusations on others you can't see yourself.

Look at all this time and energy you have wasted ITT because you're high and mighty attitude.

Strong lack of reading comprehension. I had a caveat prior to "body shaming" That caveat being you started the ad hominem insulting not me. I was internationally being facetious in response to you initially insulting me while going so over the top childish also intentionally to highlight how stupid and childish it is to result to personal attacks.

Clearly you have mental health issues putting up mental barriers in your mind preventing you from seeing how the world turns and it nearly ended your life as you say. Seems like whatever demons plague your mind are still there and they have deeper roots then merely body dysmorphia.

The OP is clear in asking for information regarding fasting nothing to do with optimal muscle retention during weight loss or anything else but you and others felt the need to attempt to educate me on something irrelevant to the OP that I never claimed contrary too. Maybe if you stuck to the topic instead of making pompous assumptions about my intent your feelings wouldn't have had to get hurt on the internet oh noes!

The best part about all this is you still felt the need to underhandedly undermined my ability to be a father.

Spoiler!

Please point out where I insulted you and please point out the ad hominem.

I suspect you don’t understand what an ad hominem is...

YOUR post which was removed was a picture of me which you directly mocked... that is an overt and obvious insult and attempt to try and cause me emotional pain. I did no such thing to you.

The irony is, YOU posting a picture of me as a reason not to follow my input is literally the definition of an ad hominem: you attacked ME (the individual) instead of my comments on fasting. THAT is ad hominem.

I never attacked you personally, I spoke only about the fasting component. That is not ad hominem.

So... yeah... bit of the pot calling the kettle black up in here.

PS: Your comments here about my ED/body image issues are completely off-base and unrelated to anything we're talking about... maybe try to stay on point and not bring up matters which have zero bearing on the discussions at hand.