Road to a 405 bench

[SaviorSelfJT]

I started lifting again about a year and a half ago. I used to lift somewhat seriously like 6 years ago but was much weaker than I am now. Was a skinny weak high school kid

I'm 5'7 and about 205lbs. I've got stretch marks all over my upper arms and groin area from bulking so fast over the past year and a half. I'd like to keep putting on weight but my appetite has been really weak over the past month

Current bests:
Bench: 315x4, 275x9
Squat: 405x4, 315x15
Deadlift: 425x5, 405x8

Squat (no wraps or sleeves) is as low as anatomically possible, deadlift is conventional with straps, and bench is touch and go.
I'm ashamed of my deadlift. It's always my worst lift, but for about the first 8 months I wasn't training it at all. So it shouldn't be this pathetic.

Programs:
Right now I'm just training by feel cause it seems to be working. I've used texas method before and did a round of smolov base. I've kept a pen and paper log but a public one might hold me more accountable

[SaviorSelfJT]

Workout today, only top sets listed.

Barbell Row:
265x8
265x8
265x8
Somewhat cheated form, I find they hit my back way harder that way

Pullups, strict form:
BWx5
BWx8
BWx7.5, on 8th chin didn't quite make it over

Strict overhead press:
185x8 PR! last time I only got 5 with this weight
155x10

Rear delt flies:
25(x2) x 12
35(x2) x 15

RDLs:
365x10
365x10
Glute and hamstring pump of peace

Note to self: Stop drinking so much fukking water right before deadlifting you moron. So much water in my stomach makes it unable for me to brace my abs or else the water wants to come back up.

[SaviorSelfJT]

Short and easy arm/grip workout today.

Barbell curls:
95x5
105x5
115x5
125x5

Static holds:
425x12 seconds
315x18 seconds (no rest between the two)

Finger rolls to a fist:
135x5
155x5
175x5
195x5

Reverse forearm curls:
65x6
85x10
105x7

I want to squat/deadlift next, but it'll be another day or two before my back is ready again

[ECGordyn]

Just found your log. In

[SaviorSelfJT]

Just found your log. In

Hell yeah, glad to have you on board

------------------


A few squats up to 315x3 just to help get warmed up for deadlifts

Deadlift:
405x10 PR, last time I got 8 reps. These are conventional, dead stop, not tap n go. But with straps

Fought like my life depended on it to get those last few reps.
Had to rest for like 25 minutes after that before my breathing settled down. Lungs were on fire for a bit.

Bench:
300x5
300x4
300x4
Meh. I got 300x6,5,5 a few workouts ago, but that wasn't after a tough set of deads. Whatever

Notes:
Purposefully limited eating and especially limited water intake prior to working out. Trying to not feel bloated as I think that hurts my starting position on deads. Downside was a little hungry while lifting lol

[SaviorSelfJT]

Need to buy some more caffeine pills. Lifting without caffeine sucks ass (srs)

Bench Press:
315x4 fuk, I thought I had 5 but out of nowhere the 4th was a real grinder
275x10 PR previous best was 9 reps
225x20

Squat:
365x7
365x7
365x7

Quads and low back were really pumped up, had to lie down for a bit
Tried to do some rack pulls but back too pumped up

Shrugs:
405x10
should've had a lot more reps but erectors were too tired

Idk what's causing these pumps. If I hit biceps before doing overhead presses, I can't get in the proper starting position because my biceps and forearms smash into each other. And my chest was so pumped up after doing bench press that I had difficulty squatting cause it was stretching my pecs. And then the back bump so bad I had to lie down

I was digging through some of my videos and found where I squatted 405 june this year. If you want to see what my squat form looks like. I pretty much go down till my hamstrings and calf hit each other and can't go down any more:

[ECGordyn]

Need to buy some more caffeine pills. Lifting without caffeine sucks ass (srs)

Bench Press:
315x4 fuk, I thought I had 5 but out of nowhere the 4th was a real grinder
275x10 PR previous best was 9 reps
225x20

Squat:
365x7
365x7
365x7

Quads and low back were really pumped up, had to lie down for a bit
Tried to do some rack pulls but back too pumped up

Shrugs:
405x10
should've had a lot more reps but erectors were too tired

Idk what's causing these pumps. If I hit biceps before doing overhead presses, I can't get in the proper starting position because my biceps and forearms smash into each other. And my chest was so pumped up after doing bench press that I had difficulty squatting cause it was stretching my pecs. And then the back bump so bad I had to lie down

I was digging through some of my videos and found where I squatted 405 june this year. If you want to see what my squat form looks like. I pretty much go down till my hamstrings and calf hit each other and can't go down any more:

Great squat form man.
Bench you might have just lost positioning, slid on the bench.

[SaviorSelfJT]

Great squat form man.
Bench you might have just lost positioning, slid on the bench.

Thanks, I can actually kind of bounce a little in the squat at the very bottom, if I fail a squat its usually about halfway up strangely enough

I think you're right about losing positioning, sometimes I can be inconsistent about where I touch the bar on my torso too. Or if my shoulders get loose, I can't recover from that and get them retracted again under load.

I was reading about lifting equipment, and my bench is not ideal. Its 11.25 inches wide vs 10 inches, and more importantly its a lot higher up than a competition bench which means I can't really use leg drive much. And I'm unracking the weight myself so its hard to get tight

I'm thinking about buying a new bench needless to say

[SaviorSelfJT]

Wanted to do something different for deadlift. Found this https://muscleandbrawn.com/workouts/...dlift-routine/ and I used 500 as a max and went with the higher % in the ranges.

Got more caffeine, 160mg before lifting


Some light power cleans to help warmup

Deadlift:
warmup sets
405x2
405x2
405x2
405x2
405x2
405x2
405x2
405x2

Deadlift from a 3 inch deficit:
325x4
325x4
325x4
325x4
250x8
250x8


I'm used to only doing one deadlift set per workout, so this was pretty tough for me. Also, need to find a better way of doing deficity. Layers of scrap wood is a little dangerous, it can slip and I think I could hurt myself pretty bad

[SaviorSelfJT]

Kind of a chitty workout

Bench Press:
315x4 fukk just last time the first three reps made me think I had 5, the 4th said no you don't
315x1
315x1

I think my shoulders got upset unracking the weight, the next two sets I had to lower the weight reeeeealy slowly. I might take a break from regular benching and focus on close grip to let my shoulders recoup. I think the unracking is hurting my shoulders

Shrugs:
405x8 one of my lifting straps RIPPED IN HALF during the set. I think I got 2 more reps with it torn. After the set it was completely in two pieces. It was a little torn before but this completely did it in.

Static holds:
445x15 seconds

Pullups:
BWx10
BWx10

Rear delt flies:
25(x2)x12
25(x2)x20

Here's a pic of my flexing my traps/shoulders in front of the webcam just now if you want to see my pale fat disgusting self. You can see the stretch marks forming from my armpit across my chest

[SaviorSelfJT]

Got back from a small camping trip

Deadlift:
I messed up, apparently I had a full stomach. Once I got to 405 and used a belt, as usual it felt like I wanted to puke when I got in the start position. I called the bluff.....and sure enough I threw up a little on the basement floor
Complete failure, I didn't get anything after my warmup set with 405.
This is so frustrating, I wanted to punch a hole in the wall. I'm fuking tired of experimenting with this goddammed lift. Trying narrow stance, wide stance, straps, no straps, belt, no belt, bar up to shins, bar farther from shins, eat before lifting, dont eat before lifting, breath before bending down, dont.......
For most people they just "get" this lift the first time they do it and never have any problem. For me its like trying to crack the zodiac killers code

Close grip bench:
225x5
245x5
275x5, with a pause on the last rep. EASY

Strict press:
135x1
155x1
175x1
205x1 PR. This rep must have taken almost 10 seconds, I doubt I've grinded a rep this hard before
135x15

When I was like 160 lbs I could do 160. My bodyweight is right at 205, so pretty neat that my press to bodyweight ratio (1) is the same even after gaining all this weight

[SaviorSelfJT]

Squat:
315x1
365x1
405x1
425x2 lower back felt a lot more stress than it normally would

Deadlift:
Didn't feel all bloated like yesterday, but still failed in the exact same way. I'm starting to wonder if these aren't just "bad days" and I'm actually regressing on the deadlift. A few months I could rep more than the weight I failed. And if I am regressing, WHY?

The fact that I did squats first and noticed my back felt more stressed may mean I wasn't recovered completely from the last time I did deadlifts. Maybe I need more than a week to recover from a really hard deadlift workout

[SaviorSelfJT]

Here's what I'm thinking I do about the deadlift. I'm going to assume I'm overreached/overtrained a little because I cannot recover from all out sets once week or slightly more than once a week, which is what I've been doing.

So what do I need to do? I can either:
A. Do easier deadlift workouts
B. Do it less frequently (say once every 2 weeks)

The problem with B is that it will take a long time. And if I truly am overreached, waiting 2 weeks might not even do the trick. And if I'm not practicing the lift frequently, my form may go

So I'm going to do A instead. I could drop the weight to like 275 and increase by 10 lbs each week, but that will take months to get back up. So I could accelerate the jumps by increasing the jump 5 lbs each time that way I get back up quicker.

> .[^10].say with ([\+] (0, 5, 10, 15  ... *)).map: * + 275
>

Gives the sequence

> (275 280 290 305 325 350 380 415 455 500)
>

I think thats what I'm going to do. A single 5 rep set once a week

[SaviorSelfJT]

Easy workout, could still feel my back fatiguing on the rows, even at just 135 lbs

Rows:
135x5
155x5
185x5
225x5
245x5

Shrugs:
135x5
225x5
315x5
405x15 (not sure if I've done this many before, may be a PR)

Static holds:
455x7 or 8 seconds
455x1 seconds

[SaviorSelfJT]

Christmas workout
All I wanted was 275x7 on close grip and I got it

Close grip bench:
45x10
95x10
135x10
185x9
225x4
275x7
275x6...failed the 7th and I thought I should have had it. The bar got uneven and hit a safety catch and I couldn't recover

Curls:
65x5
95x5
115x10

Pullups:
9.5


Still feel somewhat of a stiffness/weakness in my lower back. Its not pain, so I still don't think there's an injury

[SaviorSelfJT]

Pretty decent workout

Close grip bench:
135x5
185x5
225x5
275x3
300x4

Squat:
45,95,135,285,225,275 warmups
315x2
345x2
385x5
385x5

Happy with how these squats felt. The first rep of first set felt so easy, like the weight practically lifted itself. The last rep of last set I went down really slow and basically let it squish me as low as I can get lol

Deadlift:
275x5

Reminder that this is the first weight of the "recovery" sequence in an earlier post. Just trying to keep the motor patterns while I'm recovering from this lift. Next couple workouts will be similarly low weight but will be rapidly accelerating. Also, I'm done with using straps with deadlifts. I think its actually hurting them now, cause I have to spend more time bent down adjusting them which hurts my ability to setup. I think my grip is plenty strong I don't need em anyway. But I need to ween myself off of straps too

Still gonna use straps for things like shrugs etc

[tobistrength]

Skimmed through log. In. Looking to follow your journey

[SaviorSelfJT]

Skimmed through log. In. Looking to follow your journey

Thanks man. May take me an aeon to get to my goals, but I've got time on my side. Checked your youtube, your lifts are no joke


Workout today:

Normal bench (not close grip):
45x5
135x5
185x3
225x5
275x3
315x4......... ok I'm not that upset here. I actually failed on the 5th cause the 4th wasn't a grinder like every time I've attempted this before. So I actually tried for a 5th rep. Was a standstill for a few seconds before failing the lift

So that's sort of progress? Went from grinding the 4th rep to not grinding the 4th rep even though I still can't get 5 reps

Realistically I don't think I'm not going to see a noticeable jump in my bench till I do real programming for it (like smolov jr)

Static holds:
135xblah
225xblah
315xblah
405x18 seconds....I checked my pen and paper log, on Nov 30th I could only do 12 seconds with 405. Pretty rapid progress
475x4 seconds
500x1 second
405x17 seconds

Rows:
135x5
225x5
275x5 (had to strap up, grip was tired)

[SaviorSelfJT]

This looks surprisingly doable. Figuring a starting max of 355 based off of 315x4




edit: the last week has 7 sets of 315x5 and I can't even do one set. Maybe not surprisingly doable. Hmm......
May do +10 and +10 instead of +10 and +20

[ECGordyn]

This looks surprisingly doable. Figuring a starting max of 355 based off of 315x4




edit: the last week has 7 sets of 315x5 and I can't even do one set. Maybe not surprisingly doable. Hmm......
May do +10 and +10 instead of +10 and +20

The Smolov versions I've seen have 5lb-10lb increases each week. 20lb looks like a mistake.

https://www.smolovjr.com/smolov-jr-calculator/

[tobistrength]

Thanks man. May take me an aeon to get to my goals, but I've got time on my side. Checked your youtube, your lifts are no joke


Workout today:

Normal bench (not close grip):
45x5
135x5
185x3
225x5
275x3
315x4......... ok I'm not that upset here. I actually failed on the 5th cause the 4th wasn't a grinder like every time I've attempted this before. So I actually tried for a 5th rep. Was a standstill for a few seconds before failing the lift

So that's sort of progress? Went from grinding the 4th rep to not grinding the 4th rep even though I still can't get 5 reps

Realistically I don't think I'm not going to see a noticeable jump in my bench till I do real programming for it (like smolov jr)

Static holds:
135xblah
225xblah
315xblah
405x18 seconds....I checked my pen and paper log, on Nov 30th I could only do 12 seconds with 405. Pretty rapid progress
475x4 seconds
500x1 second
405x17 seconds

Rows:
135x5
225x5
275x5 (had to strap up, grip was tired)

Appreciate it man. Yeah took a long time. Like you said. Your lifts also took a long time. Being great at anything takes a long time and even obsession to add. Keep up the good work

[SaviorSelfJT]

Appreciate it man. Yeah took a long time. Like you said. Your lifts also took a long time. Being great at anything takes a long time and even obsession to add. Keep up the good work

Just gotta make sure I don't burnout and quit before I hit my potential

The Smolov versions I've seen have 5lb-10lb increases each week. 20lb looks like a mistake.

https://www.smolovjr.com/smolov-jr-calculator/

I think you may be right, there is absolutely no way someone could do +20 and +10 for bench unless they're a beginner. The spreadsheet I have is configurable, figure I can defer that decision till I start the second/third week

Last workout of 2020:

Squat:
barx5
135x5
185x5
225x5
275x3
315x5
365x5
405x5 PR bitches! (pic of last rep below)

Bench press (Smolov 1/1):
45, 135, 185, 225 x whatever
250x9
250x9
250x9
250x9

If anything is gonna go wrong, its gonna be my shoulders. Gotta focus more on unracking, I don't have a spotter to help unrack and I can tell it puts a lot of stress on my shoulders

Shrugs:
135x5
225x5
315x5
405x5
455x5

Pullups:
10
10
10

Here's a pic of the last rep of the 405x5 set. Am I in the ATG club? Looks like I'm about 6 inches from touching the floor

[tobistrength]

Just gotta make sure I don't burnout and quit before I hit my potential



I think you may be right, there is absolutely no way someone could do +20 and +10 for bench unless they're a beginner. The spreadsheet I have is configurable, figure I can defer that decision till I start the second/third week

Last workout of 2020:

Squat:
barx5
135x5
185x5
225x5
275x3
315x5
365x5
405x5 PR bitches! (pic of last rep below)

Bench press (Smolov 1/1):
45, 135, 185, 225 x whatever
250x9
250x9
250x9
250x9

If anything is gonna go wrong, its gonna be my shoulders. Gotta focus more on unracking, I don't have a spotter to help unrack and I can tell it puts a lot of stress on my shoulders

Shrugs:
135x5
225x5
315x5
405x5
455x5

Pullups:
10
10
10

Here's a pic of the last rep of the 405x5 set. Am I in the ATG club? Looks like I'm about 6 inches from touching the floor

Some textbook squat form. ATG af. Harry Squatter. Like an Olympic lifter. Smolov Jr gotta love the 9s. I haven't done Smolov Jr but I'm aware of the program people use it for bench and the full 13 hard weeks for squats with great success but also hard. High volume high frequency

[SaviorSelfJT]

Some textbook squat form. ATG af. Harry Squatter. Like an Olympic lifter. Smolov Jr gotta love the 9s. I haven't done Smolov Jr but I'm aware of the program people use it for bench and the full 13 hard weeks for squats with great success but also hard. High volume high frequency

Maybe I've got a bad smolov jr spreadsheet but it seems it's exactly identical to smolov? 4x9 at 70%, 5x7 at 75%, 7x5 at 80%, 10x3 at 85% then increasing weights next week. I think I've seen a different one where it starts with 6x6

So I was doing some research yesterday, and I've got a new theory for my deadlifts: weak and underdeveloped hamstrings.
Evidence: I found an article by I think jim wendler where he gave a checklist to test if you have weak hamstrings, and I checked pretty much all of them. "When doing rack pulls, do you squat the weight up vs a straight leg pulll?", "do you struggle to sit back in the squat?", "Do you move yourself forward in the starting position of the deadlift to use more quads?", etc. I'm trying to find find the article to share it here but can't find it
Evidence: Most powerlifters seem to get enough carryover from their squat to drive deadlift progress. However, that assumes a "PL style" squat; verticalish shins, sit back, horizontalish back etc. I do not squat like that at all. A "PL style" squat develops the hamstrings, mine likely does not and is all quads/glutes/low back

So while I'm deloading my deadlift so much, I should try to focus on hamstring development. When the deadlift weights get heavy again, I'll taper off the hamstring stuff as my lower back can't handle both

----------------------------------------

RDL:
45x5
95x5
135x5
185x5
225x5
275x5
315x5

Bench Press (smolov w1/d2)
warmup sets
265x7
265x7
265x7
255x7
265x7

Curls:
45x5
65x5
95x5
115x5
135x5....only a little cheated lol

Good Mornings:
95x5
135x5
185x5
185x5
185x5

Rear flies:
10(x2)x7
25(x2)x7
35(x2)x7


Recorded my form on the RDLs to make sure my back wasn't rounding. When I did these in the not so distant past my lower back was sore for days. I think I was rounding my back to be able to go lower. And if it is true that my hamstrings are weak, I shouldn't need a lot of weight/intensity on these or the good mornings

[tobistrength]

Perhaps try sumo deadlifts. Maybe you have relatively short legs and limbs to your torso. Maybe need a wider stance on deadlifts and need to narrow your grip a bit and sit back. I don't know if this is possibly the case.

[SaviorSelfJT]

Perhaps try sumo deadlifts. Maybe you have relatively short legs and limbs to your torso. Maybe need a wider stance on deadlifts and need to narrow your grip a bit and sit back. I don't know if this is possibly the case.

I think there's a good chance I'd pull more sumo, but I don't really consider myself a powerlifter and I'd rather just keep conventional

For conventional, I've tried all kinds of stances, feet angles and all that. I'm 100% sure, that I can pull the most weight by starting with the bar closer to my toes rather than mid foot (know how everyone says to start with the bar over mid foot? I am absolutely weaker that way) and kind of squatting up with quite a bit of knee bend

That was listed as one of the signs of weak hamstrings, idk

[ECGordyn]

I think there's a good chance I'd pull more sumo, but I don't really consider myself a powerlifter and I'd rather just keep conventional

For conventional, I've tried all kinds of stances, feet angles and all that. I'm 100% sure, that I can pull the most weight by starting with the bar closer to my toes rather than mid foot (know how everyone says to start with the bar over mid foot? I am absolutely weaker that way) and kind of squatting up with quite a bit of knee bend

That was listed as one of the signs of weak hamstrings, idk

https://www.strongerbyscience.com/how-to-deadlift/

^ That's a good breakdown of the DL by Greg Nuckols.

I had problems with that lift in the past, too. I'd think that starting too far forward can demand more from the lower back as your leverage is shifted forward, and that the quads come in more when the body shifts back a little bit. For me, when I do pause DL, I shift back during the pause because my body needs the quads for support; posterior chain isn't enough to hold the weight an inch off the floor for a second.

One big game changer for me was controlled eccentrics. I lift in my living room on thick mats over tile floor, and I don't want to risk cracking the tile, so I do a slow descent. This seems to have helped me train positioning and find the right starting position for the next rep. I've heard Nuckols say the same thing in a podcast.

[SaviorSelfJT]

https://www.strongerbyscience.com/how-to-deadlift/

^ That's a good breakdown of the DL by Greg Nuckols.

I had problems with that lift in the past, too. I'd think that starting too far forward can demand more from the lower back as your leverage is shifted forward, and that the quads come in more when the body shifts back a little bit. For me, when I do pause DL, I shift back during the pause because my body needs the quads for support; posterior chain isn't enough to hold the weight an inch off the floor for a second.

One big game changer for me was controlled eccentrics. I lift in my living room on thick mats over tile floor, and I don't want to risk cracking the tile, so I do a slow descent. This seems to have helped me train positioning and find the right starting position for the next rep. I've heard Nuckols say the same thing in a podcast.

I'm reading that now and there's some interesting things in there. He says that having feet forward usually helps lockout, and feet rotated helps getting the weight off of the floor. I deadlift with my feet pretty much straight forward and usually fail by not breaking it off of the floor.

Also lold, he kinda says that here:

However, the two times I’ve made the fastest deadlift progress were when I trained at commercial gyms with strict rules about controlling the bar and not making much noise when deadlifting.

At first, these rules annoyed me since I was used to being a “hardcore” dickhead and making a ton of noise when I deadlifted, but I sucked it up and was respectful to other gymgoers, controlling my deadlifts and making sure I set the bar down gently between reps.

One topic I'm surprised he didn't cover there is shoes. Rippetoe for example thinks most are better off with an oly style shoe with a little heel for deadlifts. My problem with that is I grind my shins up like crazy if I do that

Also didn't realize he had a podcast; subbed on spotify

[ECGordyn]

I'm reading that now and there's some interesting things in there. He says that having feet forward usually helps lockout, and feet rotated helps getting the weight off of the floor. I deadlift with my feet pretty much straight forward and usually fail by not breaking it off of the floor.

Also lold, he kinda says that here:


One topic I'm surprised he didn't cover there is shoes. Rippetoe for example thinks most are better off with an oly style shoe with a little heel for deadlifts. My problem with that is I grind my shins up like crazy if I do that

Also didn't realize he had a podcast; subbed on spotify

What's Rip's reasoning for Oly shoes in the DL? They put you in a deficit so I can't see them being ideal for comp. work.

I rotate my feet out a bit to engage glutes more. I never felt strong pointing forward.

[SaviorSelfJT]

Hamstrings slightly sore from yesterday, nothing too bad. Back completely feels fine.
Two more exercises I can do for hamstrings: box squats and straight leg deadlifts. For now before I load more weight on RDLs I may wait till I can go lower; I could only go to about my knees.

What's Rip's reasoning for Oly shoes in the DL? They put you in a deficit so I can't see them being ideal for comp. work.

I rotate my feet out a bit to engage glutes more. I never felt strong pointing forward.

Here's a forum thread about it: https://startingstrength.com/resourc...oly-shoes.html

Something is wrong with your form, because WL shoes help everybody else deadlift better. I'll bet you pushed the bar forward due to the higher heel. Keep the bar in position, get your ass higher, and try it again.

Let me clarify: those of you with WL shoes with extremely high heels like the several versions of DoWins floating around under several different names will have trouble deadlifting in them. The heels are so high that the bar literally cannot be pulled from a position over the middle of the foot. These shoes are not usable for DLing, and they'll need to be cut down to about 5/8" heels. When they are, they work much better than CTs or barefoot, because a little heel helps with the use of the quads off the floor. Locutus of Borg remembers correctly.

Another link:
https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showt...hp?t=135300631

Basically he seems to say it gets more quads in