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  1. #91
    Registered User verymuchalpha's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by joocyness View Post
    That's where you're wrong. Im in banking (real IB) and sure a high GPA will get my attention (and likely an interview), but I will immediately know if you're full of chit or don't know anything, or you are "self taught".

    Internal discussions are always the same (wtf Chad looked stellar on paper but he's dumb as rocks, or Stacy presented well but she doesn't know chit and she won't be able to keep up)

    The ones who succeed are often those that have high GPA and integrity, which is clearly correlated (and I might be even say, it proxies) on how they navigated their schooling.

    Being resourceful is an incredible skill, cheating is not. Miscers are mixing these two concepts up
    How are you going to test a fresh grad applying for an analyst role at your bank?

    are you gonna ask them to blurp out the different type of formulas for FCFF or black scholes? that's fukin stupid

    not to mention, "high GPA" typically means cheating and adderral. Jfl if you think most high gpa grads are clean.
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  2. #92
    Black_Spit Brah DrewDarden's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by notbadnotbrad View Post
    Yeah all my banking friends are straight A students - then the rest of us B/C students go into things like saas sales or fund sales.

    I can’t really argue with you here as I’m clearly not a banker. Although my buddies who are say they learned most of the excel modelling and stuff on the job and it wasn’t that hard as they were basically making pitch decks 100 hours a week. Some have made associate and VP now in ib and pe and I don’t think they’ve used any of the skills learned in college though.
    College is not on the job training. It was never meant to be. It’s a place to teach you how to read, write, and think at a higher level.

    Of course there are skills that you’re going to get with a specific program (and of course internships, etc.), but saying that “it’s okay to just just cheat through college since most of the skills I learn will be on the job anyway” is completely missing the point.

    I’m not attacking you personally, just your assertion in this thread. You can rationalize all sorts of deception, but at the end of the day, it’s just cope.
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  3. #93
    Registered User DeputyDong5's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by AshWar View Post
    Yeah def a bumfuk engineering school. Phaggot

    https://i.imgur.com/lPZsPAj.jpg
    actually mirin. srs. that being said my school isn't far behind princeton in engineering rankings and I can imagine just how poverty the social experience was and how busted the women but hey man good for you.
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  4. #94
    Registered User notbadnotbrad's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by DrewDarden View Post
    College is not on the job training. It was never meant to be. It’s a place to teach you how to read, write, and think at a higher level.

    Of course there are skills that you’re going to get with a specific program (and of course internships, etc.), but saying that “it’s okay to just just cheat through college since most of the skills I learn will be on the job anyway” is completely missing the point.

    I’m not attacking you personally, just your assertion in this thread. You can rationalize all sorts of deception, but at the end of the day, it’s just cope.
    No personal attacks taken, and I barely cheated. Like maybe twice. I’m saying if I could go back I would have cheated now that I have the benefit of hindsight. I also don’t think my thinking, reading or writing skills improved at all in 4 years of university. I was able to do all that in high school.
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  5. #95
    Registered User joocyness's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by notbadnotbrad View Post
    Yeah all my banking friends are straight A students - then the rest of us B/C students go into things like saas sales or fund sales.

    I can’t really argue with you here as I’m clearly not a banker. Although my buddies who are say they learned most of the excel modelling and stuff on the job and it wasn’t that hard as they were basically making pitch decks 100 hours a week. Some have made associate and VP now in ib and pe and I don’t think they’ve used any of the skills learned in college though.
    There's an element of truth here. They got the job (assuming they're at a BB) because they are presumably the full package (smart personable and showed interest in banking)

    Day to day IB is not intellectually difficult, but it's similar to a highschool math teacher. He did not need a bachelor's in math to teach high school students, but it's good have in case.

    Similar to banking. We don't need MBAs or even need to go to a top school with 4.0 GPAs, but I'd much rather have incredibly brilliant ppl on my team that can do simple work than a mediocre/dumb person doing simple work. Who do you think will make more mistakes? In banking, we have hourly targets that can't be missed, so we opt to always go with smart hardworking good ppl.

    At my level (equivalent to MD) the work is different but that's for a different thread. It's managing the team and what my observations are in my finance bubble that is relevant here
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  6. #96
    Registered User notbadnotbrad's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by joocyness View Post
    There's an element of truth here. They got the job (assuming they're at a BB) because they are presumably the full package (smart personable and showed interest in banking)

    Day to day IB is not intellectually difficult, but it's similar to a highschool math teacher. He did not need a bachelor's in math to teach high school students, but it's good have in case.

    Similar to banking. We don't need MBAs or even need to go to a top school with 4.0 GPAs, but I'd much rather have incredibly brilliant ppl on my team that can do simple work than a mediocre/dumb person doing simple work. Who do you think will make more mistakes? In banking, we have hourly targets that can't be missed, so we opt to always go with smart hardworking good ppl.

    At my level (equivalent to MD) the work is different but that's for a different thread. It's managing the team and what my observations are in my finance bubble that is relevant here
    Well I’m defn not going to argue with an MD in an industry I have no experience in lol - so I’ll take your word for it. Maybe I’m wrong about school and should have taken it seriously.
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  7. #97
    Registered User joocyness's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by verymuchalpha View Post
    How are you going to test a fresh grad applying for an analyst role at your bank?

    are you gonna ask them to blurp out the different type of formulas for FCFF or black scholes? that's fukin stupid

    not to mention, "high GPA" typically means cheating and adderral. Jfl if you think most high gpa grads are clean.
    Lmao ask me how I know you're a bitter fifth tier wannabe finance loser that will never make it?

    If you want help on this pm me Srs. Otherwise get fukked and stop spreading hot garbage on the misc
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  8. #98
    Registered User ilovetradies's Avatar
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    heres a life lesson for you op. Cheaters prosper
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  9. #99
    Registered User DrumsNotDead's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by jimbone21 View Post
    So what exactly does it mean to "cheat yourself" then? All these people posting about how you'll do bad professionally if you cheat in college implies to me that you aren't learning the work. If taking a test after studying is the best way to learn the work, then how can an open book test not be cheating yourself?

    It is all BS anyway. If you can get a perfect grade and also learn the work enough to get into a career and continue learning things that matter and not BS like the latin names of every previous version of humans (I got a C in that class because it was SO boring and SO worthless to anything I need in life to this day) then you'll be more successful than if you studied hard and made some mistakes and got a lower score. You don't get extra credit for being honest and you are competing against your classmates whether it is a curved grading scale or class rank or who gets the job after college.
    Nobody said that taking a test was the best way to learn anything, what I said was that in the context of an open book exam it's not cheating because by the "letter of the law" at least in context of that specific test you have adhered to the rules. If you drive 70mph on the highway it's fine, if you do it in a school zone is bad. Neither implies you're a better driver, just that one person isn't considering others and or "playing by the rules". It's pretty obvious your definition of cheating isn't actually the real one. You are trying to manipulate it and justify cheating by saying that "it's all BS", ok well if so then why cheat? Why not fail or not go at all? Oh wait, because it's not all BS and it does matter. If people weren't doing well in class you wouldn't have anyone to cheat off of (if you're eyeballing answers anyway) and so it would appear that cheating relies on studying, just the studying of someone else, not you. This is why it's stealing, you're stealing credit for my time/work. Even if you don't cheat directly off classmates and simply sneak notes in, well you're still harming my grade by representing yourself as knowledgeable on a topic that you're not. Nobody said "everyone who cheats loses at everything". Plenty of bad people or people who've done bad things end up in good positions and nobody thinks if you cheated on a test you're a terrorist, just that it's disingenuous and that is unarguable. You should also realize how many people work to get good grades not because it's actually teaching them everything they need to know, but rather because they know many others cannot get those grades. People like to achieve what others cannot. Funny how you and many others who justify cheating do so from the position of "gotta do whatever it takes to get by", whatever being anything besides the actual work and effort it took to get there. Pathetic.
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  10. #100
    Registered User verymuchalpha's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by joocyness View Post
    Lmao ask me how I know you're a bitter fifth tier wannabe finance loser that will never make it?

    If you want help on this pm me Srs. Otherwise, get fukked and stop spreading hot garbage on the misc
    used to work in finance and don't anymore, not looking back at that dying industry. Programming is where it's at.

    You avoided my question because you know what I said is true. There is no way for you to distinguish between a clean high GPA student and a cheating high GPA student unless the cheating student cheated his entire schooling, which rarely happens.
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  11. #101
    Registered User Polaris's Avatar
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    Its "utilizing resources".
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  12. #102
    Black_Spit Brah DrewDarden's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Polaris View Post
    Its "utilizing resources".
    What’s it called when you don’t know when to add an apostrophe?
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  13. #103
    Registered User verymuchalpha's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by DrewDarden View Post
    What’s it called when you don’t know when to add an apostrophe?
    not having grammarly
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  14. #104
    Registered User joocyness's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by verymuchalpha View Post
    used to work in finance and don't anymore, not looking back at that dying industry. Programming is where it's at.

    You avoided my question because you know what I said is true. There is no way for you to distinguish between a clean high GPA student and a cheating high GPA student unless the cheating student cheated his entire schooling, which rarely happens.
    Your question wasn't the above but I'll answer anyways - you're absolutely right we will never know. but the way we interview teases out those that have high grades and actually know something vs someone with equivalent grades that doesn't know chit.

    Our process isn't perfect (we've had a few weasels wiggle their way in but never last) but it's pretty damn good in recognizing who earned their grades, or rather is damn smart, in which their grades reflect this.

    And if you were in finance, then you'd know our world is ran by integrity and reputation. Anyone who tells you different watches too much TV or were at a 3rd tier garbage boiler room firm
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  15. #105
    Registered User notbadnotbrad's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by verymuchalpha View Post
    not having grammarly
    Lmao well played
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  16. #106
    Registered User verymuchalpha's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by joocyness View Post
    Your question wasn't the above but I'll answer anyways - you're absolutely right we will never know. but the way we interview teases out those that have high grades and actually know something vs someone with equivalent grades that doesn't know chit.

    Our process isn't perfect (we've had a few weasels wiggle their way in but never last) but it's pretty damn good in recognizing who earned their grades, or rather is damn smart, in which their grades reflect this.

    And if you were in finance, then you'd know our world is ran by integrity and reputation. Anyone who tells you different watches too much TV or were at a 3rd tier garbage boiler room firm
    You're either overestimating the intellectual ability needed to work in IB, or you have a moral belief that lumps any form of cheating with bad character.

    A lot of high GPA students see school as a stepping stone to a good job. That's the first (and sometimes only) way they look at school. Getting the grade is the top priority, learning isn't. They see learning as a side effect of getting high grades, they don't see getting high grades as a result of learning.

    For example, if a student wants to truly learn statistics, they would spend time studying and analyzing real data sets and spend time thinking about the output of their analysis. Unfortunately, spending time learning like that is a guaranteed way to not ace your exams. In most schools, exams don't test your ability to learn, they test your ability to memorize. If a student wants to get high grades so they can land interviews with managers who are impressed by high GPAs like yourself, they would spend most of their time memorizing, not learning.

    There is no added value in memorizing a huge list of formulas and concepts just so you can forget about them 2 to 3 months after your exams. In fact, it's smarter to just cheat those. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying a student should cheat their entire academic career and learn nothing, but from a morally agnostic standpoint, there is no harm in cheating to save tens of hours and guaranteeing yourself a high grade and a high ROI on your tuition.
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  17. #107
    Registered User notbadnotbrad's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by verymuchalpha View Post
    You're either overestimating the intellectual ability needed to work in IB, or you have a moral belief that lumps any form of cheating with bad character.

    A lot of high GPA students, especially in business school, see school as a stepping stone to a good job. That's the first (and sometimes only) way they look at school. Getting the grade is the top priority, learning isn't. They see "learning" as a side effect of getting high grades, they don't see getting high grades as a result of learning.

    For example, if you want to truly learn statistics, you would spend time studying and analyzing real data sets and spend time thinking about the outputs. Unfortunately, spending time learning like that is a guaranteed way to not ace your exams. In most schools, exams don't test your ability to learn, they test your ability to memorize. If a student wants to get high grades so they can land interviews with managers who are impressed by high GPAs, they would spend most of their time memorizing, not learning.

    There is no added value in memorizing a huge list of formulas and concepts just so you can forget about them 2 to 3 months after your exams. In fact, it's smarter to just cheat those. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying a student should cheat their entire academic career and learn nothing, but from a morally agnostic standpoint, there is no harm in cheating to save tens of hours and guaranteeing yourself a high grade and a high ROI on your tuition.
    I sat beside this girl with an MBA and CFA and had to teach her in simple language how to price a bond and explain to her how treasury inflation protected securities work.

    She literally has a CFA and didn’t understand how interest rates impact bond prices. I think a lot of people just sit there and memorize chit and spew it out on a paper and forget.
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  18. #108
    Foe Tha Love of $ Hector002's Avatar
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    Lol @ not cheating in college. Bet you had perfect attendance too phaggot.
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  19. #109
    Registered User verymuchalpha's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by notbadnotbrad View Post
    I sat beside this girl with an MBA and CFA and had to teach her in simple language how to price a bond and explain to her how treasury inflation protected securities work.

    She literally has a CFA and didn’t understand how interest rates impact bond prices. I think a lot of people just sit there and memorize chit and spew it out on a paper and forget.
    lold

    She probably spent hours memorizing a list of bullet points on convexity.

    Again proves my point that it's a complete waste of time to memorize chit. Might as well just cheat and save yourself the time.
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    Originally Posted by inzimamulhaq View Post
    JFL at DrewDarden and the other selfrightoeuscels ITT.

    Soooo insecure and SEETHING just cus someone doesn't value education at the same level they do.

    Sound like natties who can't stfu about juicers.

    Dude, just live your life. If you're too beta to color outside the lines, that's on you.

    Billionaires, millionaires, and politicians are raping the public coffers and you think a kid shouldn't cheat on a test.
    I’m not mad at anybody srs.

    Do what you do. Just don’t expect me to congratulate you.

    And don’t pretend you did the same thing as the people who did it the right way.
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    Originally Posted by verymuchalpha View Post
    You're either overestimating the intellectual ability needed to work in IB, or you have a moral belief that lumps any form of cheating with bad character.

    A lot of high GPA students see school as a stepping stone to a good job. That's the first (and sometimes only) way they look at school. Getting the grade is the top priority, learning isn't. They see learning as a side effect of getting high grades, they don't see getting high grades as a result of learning.

    For example, if a student wants to truly learn statistics, they would spend time studying and analyzing real data sets and spend time thinking about the output of their analysis. Unfortunately, spending time learning like that is a guaranteed way to not ace your exams. In most schools, exams don't test your ability to learn, they test your ability to memorize. If a student wants to get high grades so they can land interviews with managers who are impressed by high GPAs like yourself, they would spend most of their time memorizing, not learning.

    There is no added value in memorizing a huge list of formulas and concepts just so you can forget about them 2 to 3 months after your exams. In fact, it's smarter to just cheat those. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying a student should cheat their entire academic career and learn nothing, but from a morally agnostic standpoint, there is no harm in cheating to save tens of hours and guaranteeing yourself a high grade and a high ROI on your tuition.



    This is 100% the case. People, and yes those at IB jobs especially, know that a strong academic background is key and that means a great GPA over actual knowledge. So you have a ton of individuals doing whatever it takes to get as close to a 4.0, to load up their resume with relevant work experiences or case study competitions or whatever because they were told to do that their life and never really stopped and thought about what their real interests are. That said to joocy's point, this is pretty easy to spot in the interview.

    I used to work in finance - now do consulting. Recruit from pretty good schools (Northwestern, Michigan, Indiana, Duke, etc.) - there these kids are basically taught how to look good on paper. Their career counseling services will often force them to take resume building courses or work with the career center to standardize their resumes and make even the most pathetic experience sound amazing on paper. Poor average state school kids never have a chance. So that guy that genuinely has knowledge and passion for the job, who runs econometric models on data sets for a hobby (nerd), often doesnt even get a foot in the door because he never had the coaching and connection in life to know how to come across polished.

    But the ones that are good only on paper are usually pretty easy to crack in an interview. Didn't realize this until I started interviewing people
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    Originally Posted by joocyness View Post
    Your question wasn't the above but I'll answer anyways - you're absolutely right we will never know. but the way we interview teases out those that have high grades and actually know something vs someone with equivalent grades that doesn't know chit.

    Our process isn't perfect (we've had a few weasels wiggle their way in but never last) but it's pretty damn good in recognizing who earned their grades, or rather is damn smart, in which their grades reflect this.

    And if you were in finance, then you'd know our world is ran by integrity and reputation. Anyone who tells you different watches too much TV or were at a 3rd tier garbage boiler room firm
    it's laughable how overconfident you are in you ability to discern who cheated and who didn't. you've probably been played dozens of times and never realized it.
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    lol at these peckerwoods mad as hell that they lost weeks of sleep, their hairline, and got no pussy. the same motherfukkers who cheated are determining your paycheck and future career progression

    lmaoo

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    After reading the savageoldman callout thread, I wonder if OP and Kiop are actually shredded, juiced and jacked gym beasts...
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    Originally Posted by Lastro View Post
    it's laughable how overconfident you are in you ability to discern who cheated and who didn't. you've probably been played dozens of times and never realized it.

    meh, i think it's easy. it's hard to pinpoint though because we could be talking different jobs, different degrees, etc.

    right now im in trade school. we've taken about 30 something tests

    not too long ago there were 2 chapters of extremely hard material about ac and 3 phase electricity, it totaled about 110 pages. some kid supposedly read all of it in a day and then tested on it. he didn't ask ONE question. as if that wasn't the first sign. they have no idea that some of these math problems look simple on the surface but can take 30+ minutes with tons of steps

    they (there's more than this kid) look at the practice tests and remember the answers. i know exactly what's going on because often times i will ask them a question and they have no idea. if the questions turn to application they don't know it

    now, it might be different with what you're saying because someone's degree might not directly apply to the job. so you're saying that the degree doesn't equal the prospective employees ability to bullchit

    so basically an employer represents another opportunity to bullchit, not that the material doesn't show anything.


    and again, they may be able to pass by if the work doesn't ask the same question, but the point is if they learned the foundational principles they could be in a much better spot. when they do get to a spot it's used they will not know
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    Registered User shlacked's Avatar
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    These people will usually still end up being successful in life anyway.....you’ll probably feel pretty stupid 10 years from now. Life just isn’t fair.
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    Registered User verymuchalpha's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by propreffered7 View Post
    meh, i think it's easy. it's hard to pinpoint though because we could be talking different jobs, different degrees, etc.

    right now im in trade school. we've taken about 30 something tests

    not too long ago there were 2 chapters of extremely hard material about ac and 3 phase electricity, it totaled about 110 pages. some kid supposedly read all of it in a day and then tested on it. he didn't ask ONE question. as if that wasn't the first sign. they have no idea that some of these math problems look simple on the surface but can take 30+ minutes with tons of steps

    they (there's more than this kid) look at the practice tests and remember the answers. i know exactly what's going on because often times i will ask them a question and they have no idea. if the questions turn to application they don't know it

    now, it might be different with what you're saying because someone's degree might not directly apply to the job. so you're saying that the degree doesn't equal the prospective employees ability to bullchit

    so basically an employer represents another opportunity to bullchit, not that the material doesn't show anything.


    and again, they may be able to pass by if the work doesn't ask the same question, but the point is if they learned the foundational principles they could be in a much better spot. when they do get to a spot it's used they will not know
    Most high gpa recent graduates don’t have application-level knowledge

    Unless you’re in the top 0.0001% of humans in IQ, you won’t learn how to apply complex concepts in the real world from an undergraduate degree. You need hands on experience and trial and error to reach that level.
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  28. #118
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    Originally Posted by propreffered7 View Post
    meh, i think it's easy. it's hard to pinpoint though because we could be talking different jobs, different degrees, etc.

    right now im in trade school. we've taken about 30 something tests

    not too long ago there were 2 chapters of extremely hard material about ac and 3 phase electricity, it totaled about 110 pages. some kid supposedly read all of it in a day and then tested on it. he didn't ask ONE question. as if that wasn't the first sign. they have no idea that some of these math problems look simple on the surface but can take 30+ minutes with tons of steps

    they (there's more than this kid) look at the practice tests and remember the answers. i know exactly what's going on because often times i will ask them a question and they have no idea. if the questions turn to application they don't know

    now, it might be different with what you're saying because someone's degree might not directly apply to the job. so you're saying that the degree doesn't equal the prospective employees ability to bullchit

    so basically an employer represents another opportunity to bullchit, not that the material doesn't show anything.


    and again, they may be able to pass by if the work doesn't ask the same question, but the point is if they learned the foundational principles they could be in a much better spot. when they do get to a spot it's used they will not know
    part of what you are describing could well be attributed to memorizing vs understanding course material, not cheating vs not cheating.

    you're also assuming that people who cheat don't understand what they are learning. having studied in STEM for an extended period of time, i can give you countless examples of people who cheated in order to go from a potential A or borderline A+ to an easy A+. they were damn smart
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    I knew someone who texted questions of a stats test to a stats major during the test.

    He got greedy and started charging to forward those texts to people in the class. The professor was mindfukked as to how people were cheating.
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    Originally Posted by Lastro View Post
    it's laughable how overconfident you are in you ability to discern who cheated and who didn't. you've probably been played dozens of times and never realized it.
    Whats laughable is your inability to understand my point. You're right I probably have been played but so what? I sleep well at night never having to worry about what scam I have to pull, who I have to fuk over, or what unethical chit I have to do to land a deal or get my way. Ask the guy who pulls these schemes how he's feeling? Lmao I know lots of them it's stressful constantly deceiving everyone, playing the politics, it catches up with you..

    Maybe...just mayyyybe it pays off to know your chit and work hard

    But of course it's the misc which is a cesspool of angry hateful autists who scream nepotism or how life is unfair.

    I've spent too much responding here I got work to do.

    Never change misc
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