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  1. #61
    Utah, get me two! Bodhy's Avatar
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    Easily explicable, IMO, via scientific illiteracy and ideological fervour.


    But I don't care at all for OP's "Religion bad, science good" narrative that he likes to peddle around here, which is childish and obsolete. Any decently trained scholar could bodyslam that pop-tier dialectic with ease.
    Back off, Warchild.

    Seriously.
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  2. #62
    Facilitating the illusion Harbinger's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by BlackJack619 View Post
    My belief has improved the quality of my life, and that of my offspring. How has your belief improved your life and the life of your offspring?
    How have your life become better than your parents, and how will your children become better than you by believing in evolution?
    My understanding of evolution has absolutely nothing to do with the quality of my life.
    We are living in unprecedented times. For the first time in our history, one side of the political spectrum controls all three branches of government, the media, and the technology we use to access it.
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  3. #63
    Registered User numberguy12's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by BlackJack619 View Post
    If it is indeed fact shouldnt we be able to build from it? What have we built from believing this fact?
    I'm not completely convinced you even believe what you claim to believe. I really believe there should be evidence in your life.
    Still very unclear what you are saying, but facts are not dependent on what humans are doing with them or what they are building upon them....they are just facts. I mean the concept of evolution has been very useful in unifying the entire subject of biology in a practical manner....but that’s besides the point.
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  4. #64
    Not Clive's Biceps ClivesTriceps's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Dorich View Post
    Creatures very slowly evolving into newer/changed/superior versions of their former selves? Sure.

    The creation of a new species? Hell no.

    Darwin was an idiot.
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  5. #65
    He>i BlackJack619's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Harbinger View Post
    My understanding of evolution has absolutely nothing to do with the quality of my life.
    So your belief brings no benefit to you or your quality of life? And the op is wondering why people dont believe in evolution?
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  6. #66
    ♚ Elected V.P. - R/P ♚ sawoobley's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Harbinger View Post
    This is wrong right here. It has been tested and verified.
    Not in the same way we test and verify things other things. How can you verify something when that process occurred 100,000 years ago? Most of the evidence is long gone. We can try and piece together the remnant of evidence but we cannot challenge things like we do with other processes (i.e. cell culture, animal experimentation, finding ways of analyzing and testing the processes as they occur in various ways, etc). To hold this evidence as if it matches other scientific endeavors is nonsense IMO. A little humility is in order.
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  7. #67
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    I think the hyper-religiosity of the USA has led many americans to be unable to rationally interpret the universe. They seem incredibly gullible to misinformation, as we see with regards to their elections, climate change, etc. They have created an apparatus for all-kinds of mental gymnastics which allow them to believe all kinds of nonsense and close their eyes to scientific facts
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  8. #68
    Facilitating the illusion Harbinger's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by sawoobley View Post
    Not in the same way we test and verify things other things. How can you verify something when that process occurred 100,000 years ago? Most of the evidence is long gone. We can try and piece together the remnant of evidence but we cannot challenge things like we do with other processes (i.e. cell culture, animal experimentation, finding ways of analyzing and testing the processes as they occur in various ways, etc). To hold this evidence as if it matches other scientific endeavors is nonsense IMO. A little humility is in order.
    Evolution hasn't stopped, it's still happening.
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  9. #69
    ♚ Elected V.P. - R/P ♚ sawoobley's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Harbinger View Post
    Evolution hasn't stopped, it's still happening.
    It happens so slowly we cannot collect any great evidence in real time.
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  10. #70
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    Originally Posted by Harbinger View Post
    Evolution hasn't stopped, it's still happening.
    How are you using your belief in evolution to improve the survival ability of your offspring?
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  11. #71
    Facilitating the illusion Harbinger's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by BlackJack619 View Post
    So your belief brings no benefit to you or your quality of life? And the op is wondering why people dont believe in evolution?
    I could believe that the moon was made of chocolate, other than making me an idiot how would it impact the quality of my life?
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  12. #72
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    Originally Posted by BlackJack619 View Post
    How are you using your belief in evolution to improve the survival ability of your offspring?
    I'm not! I'm using my education, and my job skills to insure that my children have an education and job skills.
    We are living in unprecedented times. For the first time in our history, one side of the political spectrum controls all three branches of government, the media, and the technology we use to access it.
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  13. #73
    Registered User Reliance012's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by sawoobley View Post
    Not in the same way we test and verify things other things. How can you verify something when that process occurred 100,000 years ago? Most of the evidence is long gone. We can try and piece together the remnant of evidence but we cannot challenge things like we do with other processes (i.e. cell culture, animal experimentation, finding ways of analyzing and testing the processes as they occur in various ways, etc). To hold this evidence as if it matches other scientific endeavors is nonsense IMO. A little humility is in order.
    No, humility isn’t in order. The evidence for macro evolutionary processes — which is what you seem to be getting at — is overwhelming in every sense of the word. There are quite literally millions of independent pieces of evidence, along with an incredibly strong theoretical framework to support evolution from common descent and monophyletic origins. It is the single most tested and well-supported scientific paradigm that exists, period.
    "Seen in the light of evolution, biology is, perhaps, intellectually the most satisfying and inspiring science. Without that light it becomes a pile of sundry facts -- some of them interesting or curious but making no meaningful picture as a whole."
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  14. #74
    Facilitating the illusion Harbinger's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by sawoobley View Post
    It happens so slowly we cannot collect any great evidence in real time.

    No.
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  15. #75
    He>i BlackJack619's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Harbinger View Post
    I could believe that the moon was made of chocolate, other than making me an idiot how would it impact the quality of my life?
    Exactly so why would you believe that?
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  16. #76
    ♚ Elected V.P. - R/P ♚ sawoobley's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Reliance012 View Post
    No, humility isn’t in order. The evidence for macro evolutionary processes — which is what you seem to be getting at — is overwhelming in every sense of the word. There are quite literally millions of independent pieces of evidence, along with an incredibly strong theoretical framework to support evolution from common descent and monophyletic origins. It is the single most tested and well-supported scientific paradigm that exists, period.
    I respect your faith but that is just silly.
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  17. #77
    He>i BlackJack619's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Harbinger View Post
    I'm not! I'm using my education, and my job skills to insure that my children have an education and job skills.
    So your belief is pointless?
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    Originally Posted by BlackJack619 View Post
    So your belief is pointless?
    his lack of care for evolution doesn't change the fact that evolution is indisputably proven.

    You're entitled to your own beliefs, not your own facts.

    Evolution happened, and continues to happen.
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    Originally Posted by BlackJack619 View Post
    So your belief is pointless?
    All belief is ultimately pointless, belief accomplishes nothing, it serves no purpose. Either a thing is or it is not, belief doesn't change that.
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    Originally Posted by Harbinger View Post
    All belief is ultimately pointless, belief accomplishes nothing, it serves no purpose. Either a thing is or it is not, belief doesn't change that.
    Surely what you do with a belief matters, you cant possibly believe that there is no point in sustaining a belief. Theres a reason we pass down our beliefs to our children. Hopefully you pass down a belief to your children that will give them a long prosperous life.
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    Originally Posted by BlackJack619 View Post
    Surely what you do with a belief matters, you can't possibly believe that there is no point in sustaining a belief. There's a reason we pass down our beliefs to our children. Hopefully, you pass down a belief to your children that will give them a long prosperous life.
    This is one of the many problems with religion.
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    Originally Posted by Harbinger View Post
    This is one of the many problems with religion.
    That we have a purpose for our belief system?

    We do tend to believe everything has a reason and a purpose.
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    Originally Posted by Harbinger View Post
    This is one of the many problems with religion.
    Can you name the main problem with religion that ignores Atheism?
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    Originally Posted by alain View Post
    How would you apply and test evolutionary theory or has it it already been applied and tested?
    Tested all the time in biological research.
    Evolution makes all kinds of predications that are confirmed routinely..

    To name a few ways,

    -In the big picture, it predicts a general trend if simpler organisms in the fossil record during earlier epochs, with a gradual shift towards more complex organisms making appearances later in the fossil record (more recent history). This has been overwhelmingly observed.

    -It predicts transitional forms in the fossil record, be it from reptiles to birds, fish to amphibians, or land mammals to whales, and not just transitional forms existing, but ones to be found in relatively narrow historical intervals....amazingly this prediction has been met with remarkable success given the rarity of fossilization.

    -It predicts vestiges from vistigial eyes to wings in flightless birds, to hind-limbs and pelvic bones in whales, to the appendix in humans. There are countless examples of this.

    -It predicts specific trends in geographical diversity of life, from adaptive radiation to the types of organisms native to, say oceanic islands (usually plant, bird, and insect species, and not land mammals, reptiles, amphibians, and freshwater fish....hmm wonder why, the latter have a very hard time bridging the ocean)

    -It predicts the presence of pseudogenes, which have been confirmed over and over in various species (a famous one, non-functional gulonolactone oxidase pseudogene in humans makes it impossible to synthesize ascorbic acid, or vitamin C, from glucose).

    -It predicts examples of bad design in species, in the sense we find examples, from say anatomy, that have no explanation under a “designer”. But it makes perfect sense under evolution in the sense that species evolve from earlier species- they build off pre-existing templates.

    -It predicts we might be able to trace the history of animal evolution in the course of one pregnancy from embryo to fetus to birth...and indeed we do see this.

    -It predicts precise relationships in the genomes among related species...which we see all over the place from actual DNA sequenced in the lab.

    Could go on, but the point is clear. Evolution is associated with all sorts of accurate predictions.

    Again this thread is not meant to be a debate about evolution....no one is debating whether this occurred in scientific circles. It is a question of why people don’t seem to want to consider the evidence for whatever reason. It’s not even meant to be a science-vs-religion thread regarding the fact of evolution. Religion, however, is related to the OP in that there definitely seems to be a correlation between religious belief and belief in special creation. Even in this very thread, you see posters who typically seem pro-religious being critical of it all, probably with little background in any of it....if anything supporting the idea that religion is a prominent factor here.
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    Originally Posted by Tears View Post
    Can you name the main problem with religion that ignores Atheism?
    I don't think there is a main problem. A few of the big ones are that it's divisive, it diminishes humanity, and teaches us that we are less than worthy.
    We are living in unprecedented times. For the first time in our history, one side of the political spectrum controls all three branches of government, the media, and the technology we use to access it.
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    Originally Posted by Harbinger View Post
    I don't think there is a main problem. A few of the big ones are that it's divisive, it diminishes humanity, and teaches us that we are less than worthy.
    And you believe atheism teaches that you are worthy?
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    Originally Posted by Harbinger View Post
    OP, there are two main reasons.

    1. Stupidity

    2. Acknowledgment of evolution is an acknowledgment of flaws in the bible.
    Holy **** do you and I agree on something??
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    Originally Posted by BlackJack619 View Post
    And you believe atheism teaches that you are worthy?
    Atheism doesn't teach anything, it doesn't make any claims, it doesn't make any predictions about the nature of the universe.
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    Originally Posted by BlackJack619 View Post
    My belief has improved the quality of my life, and that of my offspring. How has your belief improved your life and the life of your offspring?
    How have your life become better than your parents, and how will your children life become better than you by believing in evolution?
    Truth is not dependent on whether or not it improves your life
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