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  1. #1
    WOATbrah of peace :) sooby's Avatar
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    Will lockdowns over the flu be a thing in the future?

    Say hypothetically, by the end of 2021 we all get the covid vaccine, and covid is pretty much gone from the minds of everybody including the basement-cels.

    Could we possibly see cities, states, counties, etc lockdown over the literal flu in the future? I mean, according to numbers and the CDC, we apparently have eradicated the flu because numbers are down 98% in a lot of places and according to them it was due to mask wearing, lockdowns and social distancing measures. Somehow in trying to "flatten the curve, eradicate covid", they stumbled on a strategy that is way more effective than getting a flu vaccine, but doesn't seem to have nearly the same effectiveness for the virus that it was intended to stop.

    I can see many governments instituting 2 week mini-lockdowns during the flu season each year and mandating social distancing and mask wearing at least for a major part of flu season (November-March) which is 5 months of the year.

    I hate to be the bearer of bad news boyos but even if we "eradicate" covid, these measures will likely extend to how we deal with the flu in the future. What do you guys think? Is mask-wearing a permanent part of future? At least for 4-5 months of the year? They will probably cite high ICU rates as well, but they normally tend to run high during flu season anyways.
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    Registered Tradie AlwaysFocus's Avatar
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    The lockdowns are never going away. Everyone complied, we lost.
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    Registered User ParsleyTea's Avatar
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    I hope not, but some politicians seem power hungry.
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    Platinum User chaunce54's Avatar
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    Unless people start standing up to this tyranny, what reason would they have to stop?

    This hasn't even ended yet. How do we know it ever will? They are already talking about lockdowns until the end of next year...


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    Once in a lifetime event. Will they uplift all restrictions all at once? probably not. It will be a slow return to normal
    Now while the blood is hot, we must enter with brisk step upon the better course. In this kind of life there awaits much that is good to know—the love and practice of the virtues, forgetfulness of the passions, knowledge of living and dying, and a life of deep repose.”- Seneca
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    WOATbrah of peace :) sooby's Avatar
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    Somewhere our ancestors are thinking we're all cucks for being afraid to breathe oxygen without a mask


    inb4 there is nothing more cucked than meme ....
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    Anti-Circumcision JoshSP1985's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by piitbFBI View Post
    Once in a lifetime event. Will they uplift all restrictions all at once? probably not. It will be a slow return to normal
    Wrong, government never gives up power that it assumes.
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    Registered User sfgiants13's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by JoshSP1985 View Post
    Wrong, government never gives up power that it assumes.
    Not unless people start shooting. See communism.
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    Registered User Heisman2's Avatar
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    Doctor here. I find it unlikely we will do future lockdowns for a typical flu. Several reasons, the biggest being we are seeing tons of negative ramifications of the lockdowns. I think a lot of us at this point only support lockdowns if they prevent the health care systems from being overwhelmed; the flu pretty much never overwhelms the health care systems so they would thus be unnecessary.

    Also, at least in the US it's still quite early to say anything about the flu season this year. There is certainly hope for a very light one based on what was seen in Australia but it may not peak until February. It's possible we'll just have a late flu season.
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    fat fukc Fishman15's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Heisman2 View Post
    Doctor here. I find it unlikely we will do future lockdowns for a typical flu. Several reasons, the biggest being we are seeing tons of negative ramifications of the lockdowns. I think a lot of us at this point only support lockdowns if they prevent the health care systems from being overwhelmed; the flu pretty much never overwhelms the health care systems so they would thus be unnecessary.

    Also, at least in the US it's still quite early to say anything about the flu season this year. There is certainly hope for a very light one based on what was seen in Australia but it may not peak until February. It's possible we'll just have a late flu season.
    But we've shown that the healthcare systems don't need to be even close to being overwhelmed and the lockdowns continued...
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    Registered User Heisman2's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Fishman15 View Post
    But we've shown that the healthcare systems don't need to be even close to being overwhelmed and the lockdowns continued...
    Perhaps in select areas but no where close to nationwide. Also now with COVID-19 cases at their peak thus far most places are not engaging in lockdowns. We've already learned from the negative impact of earlier lockdowns.
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  12. #12
    Smile Motherfcuker! Bracket199's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Heisman2 View Post
    Doctor here. I find it unlikely we will do future lockdowns for a typical flu. Several reasons, the biggest being we are seeing tons of negative ramifications of the lockdowns. I think a lot of us at this point only support lockdowns if they prevent the health care systems from being overwhelmed; the flu pretty much never overwhelms the health care systems so they would thus be unnecessary.

    Also, at least in the US it's still quite early to say anything about the flu season this year. There is certainly hope for a very light one based on what was seen in Australia but it may not peak until February. It's possible we'll just have a late flu season.
    This.

    No one's really lived to ever explain a pandemic like this to really discuss the impacts it's had in the past. We can look at history and see what we did back then (ie. Spanish Flu), but the times have changed far too much for us to react with the same methodologies.

    If in the next 5-10 years it happens again, there's not a chance we will have another lockdown. We'd need at least 50 years to consider it again.
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  13. #13
    WOATbrah of peace :) sooby's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Heisman2 View Post
    Doctor here. I find it unlikely we will do future lockdowns for a typical flu. Several reasons, the biggest being we are seeing tons of negative ramifications of the lockdowns. I think a lot of us at this point only support lockdowns if they prevent the health care systems from being overwhelmed; the flu pretty much never overwhelms the health care systems so they would thus be unnecessary.

    Also, at least in the US it's still quite early to say anything about the flu season this year. There is certainly hope for a very light one based on what was seen in Australia but it may not peak until February. It's possible we'll just have a late flu season.
    I'm sure however it would be a consideration among governors, covid at least here never overwhelmed hospitals, even with and without lockdowns. We've still seen lockdowns despite hospitals seeing typical numbers that we would see. A lot of is also media hype to reinforce the overall message and agenda. A lot of people were laid off, provided it was due to postponing elective surgeries but still. It wasn't something that was way above normal numbers and perhaps it was justified at the beginning of the pandemic. Over time that message shifted over to stop the spread and closer to eradicate. Governments are still shutting down businesses such as restaurants and gyms despite any evidence of any outbreaks. A lot of the responses, especially with what we know now don't make a whole lot of sense. It morphed into something more than just overwhelming health care systems.

    If not "full-on" lockdowns, then what do you think about the possibility of mandated masks, or just in general mask-wearing becoming a societal norm during flu season. Or social distancing measures such as places limiting gatherings in the winter, and more restrictive measures on clubs, concerts, etc? Mandatory flu vaccines?

    As you said it may be too early to tell, but if say 50,000 people on average die of the flu in the US, if you reduce this by 98% according to some of the early numbers, you have prevented 49,000 deaths in which to many health experts and governors may seem significant. If one could implement some theoretical measure that could save the lives of 49,000 people from covid, health experts and government would do so in a heartbeat.
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    Registered User saltypits's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Bracket199 View Post
    This.

    No one's really lived to ever explain a pandemic like this to really discuss the impacts it's had in the past. We can look at history and see what we did back then (ie. Spanish Flu), but the times have changed far too much for us to react with the same methodologies.

    If in the next 5-10 years it happens again, there's not a chance we will have another lockdown. We'd need at least 50 years to consider it again.
    There were lockdowns during polio epidemics in the mid 20th century, but they were very limited because polio is transmitted A2M.

    Fuking perverted grannies.

    If the world locks down again like this, it will be the end of modern society. Back to sticks and stones.
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    Originally Posted by AlwaysFocus View Post
    The lockdowns are never going away. Everyone complied, we lost.
    This
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    I think we are gonna see more viruses coming out of China. Look at the list Sars, Bird Flu, Swine flu, Covid and so on. Recently there was even a new swine strain the CDC was freaking out about https://www.aappublications.org/news...swineflu070820 . Luckily though the virus never developed the ability for human to human transfers.

    China is a filthy overpopulated petri dish full of disease and 3rd world practices that will continue to create and spread these diseases, they aren't going to change.
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    Originally Posted by Ramoneb87 View Post
    I think we are gonna see more viruses coming out of China. Look at the list Sars, Bird Flu, Swine flu, Covid and so on. Recently there was even a new swine strain the CDC was freaking out about https://www.aappublications.org/news...swineflu070820 . Luckily though the virus never developed the ability for human to human transfers.

    China is a filthy overpopulated petri dish full of disease and 3rd world practices that will continue to create and spread these diseases, they aren't going to change.
    2008 flu came from Mexico.

    Viruses are all over the place, best we just lockdown forever.

    Guys like Bill Gates get off on thinking about a truly novel virus appearing like smallpox, which is actually very recent and extremely deadly (30% CFR).
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    Originally Posted by saltypits View Post
    2008 flu came from Mexico.

    Viruses are all over the place, best we just lockdown forever.

    Guys like Bill Gates get off on thinking about a truly novel virus appearing like smallpox, which is actually very recent and extremely deadly (30% CFR).
    Mexico is also filthy
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    Originally Posted by Ramoneb87 View Post
    Mexico is also filthy
    Aye dios mio!

    Hey did you know many public bathrooms in China don't have sinks?
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    probably. half the world thinks lockdowns are temporary. fking retards
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    Originally Posted by AlwaysFocus View Post
    The lockdowns are never going away. Everyone complied, we lost.

    Unfortunately this
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  22. #22
    Registered User Heisman2's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by sooby View Post
    I'm sure however it would be a consideration among governors, covid at least here never overwhelmed hospitals, even with and without lockdowns. We've still seen lockdowns despite hospitals seeing typical numbers that we would see. A lot of is also media hype to reinforce the overall message and agenda. A lot of people were laid off, provided it was due to postponing elective surgeries but still. It wasn't something that was way above normal numbers and perhaps it was justified at the beginning of the pandemic. Over time that message shifted over to stop the spread and closer to eradicate. Governments are still shutting down businesses such as restaurants and gyms despite any evidence of any outbreaks. A lot of the responses, especially with what we know now don't make a whole lot of sense. It morphed into something more than just overwhelming health care systems.
    I realize this is the politics section but I generally try to refrain from saying things too political as it leads to more chaos in this section. However, I'll say this; regarding a shifting message, different thresholds for lockdowns or other interventions, etc, this could have gone much more smoothly if we had a cohesive national strategy that prioritized testing and adequate PPE production. We didn't and we still don't. More logical responses could have been done earlier with a unified strategy, as shown in several other countries that were successful early on. The past is the past though.

    If not "full-on" lockdowns, then what do you think about the possibility of mandated masks, or just in general mask-wearing becoming a societal norm during flu season. Or social distancing measures such as places limiting gatherings in the winter, and more restrictive measures on clubs, concerts, etc? Mandatory flu vaccines?
    We still don't have a mask mandate in many places so I don't think that is changing (unless Biden implements one, then we'll have to see how people accept or rebel against it). I do think mask-wearing in public will become the norm for some people. It does make sense for higher risk individuals, especially if it gives a greater sense of safety. I don't think there will be restrictions on social gatherings. I agree if all of that was done then likely fewer people will die, but I don't think most people would be ok with sacrificing that degree of freedom for that end result. Regarding mandatory flu vaccines, I'm not sure how you could even enforce that nation-wide. I work for a hospital and we are all required to get flu vaccines, as is typical in hospitals; pretty much nobody complains about this, but then again most of us would get a flu vaccine anyway. If we haven't had mandatory flu vaccines to this point I don't think that will start now.

    As you said it may be too early to tell, but if say 50,000 people on average die of the flu in the US, if you reduce this by 98% according to some of the early numbers, you have prevented 49,000 deaths in which to many health experts and governors may seem significant. If one could implement some theoretical measure that could save the lives of 49,000 people from covid, health experts and government would do so in a heartbeat.
    Part of the early numbers come from Australia where they were doing all of the COVID-19 precautions during their typical flu season. Because of that we'll likely have a smaller "innoculum" of flu virus in the US at the start of the flu season, but it can still spread as it typically does if we don't have any social distancing measures. As we do have social distancing measures and mask wearing there will likely be less total flu and fewer deaths as a result. If it really decreases to that degree that would be truly remarkable, my suspicion is that it won't. Again, COVID-19 itself is still spreading like wildfire so I suspect flu will too.
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    WOATbrah of peace :) sooby's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Heisman2 View Post
    I realize this is the politics section but I generally try to refrain from saying things too political as it leads to more chaos in this section. However, I'll say this; regarding a shifting message, different thresholds for lockdowns or other interventions, etc, this could have gone much more smoothly if we had a cohesive national strategy that prioritized testing and adequate PPE production. We didn't and we still don't. More logical responses could have been done earlier with a unified strategy, as shown in several other countries that were successful early on. The past is the past though.



    We still don't have a mask mandate in many places so I don't think that is changing (unless Biden implements one, then we'll have to see how people accept or rebel against it). I do think mask-wearing in public will become the norm for some people. It does make sense for higher risk individuals, especially if it gives a greater sense of safety. I don't think there will be restrictions on social gatherings. I agree if all of that was done then likely fewer people will die, but I don't think most people would be ok with sacrificing that degree of freedom for that end result. Regarding mandatory flu vaccines, I'm not sure how you could even enforce that nation-wide. I work for a hospital and we are all required to get flu vaccines, as is typical in hospitals; pretty much nobody complains about this, but then again most of us would get a flu vaccine anyway. If we haven't had mandatory flu vaccines to this point I don't think that will start now.



    Part of the early numbers come from Australia where they were doing all of the COVID-19 precautions during their typical flu season. Because of that we'll likely have a smaller "innoculum" of flu virus in the US at the start of the flu season, but it can still spread as it typically does if we don't have any social distancing measures. As we do have social distancing measures and mask wearing there will likely be less total flu and fewer deaths as a result. If it really decreases to that degree that would be truly remarkable, my suspicion is that it won't. Again, COVID-19 itself is still spreading like wildfire so I suspect flu will too.
    I could see some states perhaps doing one. If they were to come out and say, hey, we're making it a law during peak season to wear masks in large indoor places or something it probably wouldn't fly. But I think with a perfectly crafted narrative, maybe a bit of propaganda you could probably get the masses to buy in to that notion. But maybe people see this thing as temporary which is why they are buying into it in the first place and something placed permanently into law would not go over so well. But something just shy of that, but being pushed heavily I think you could see it.

    I doubt as well that flu has decreased that much, but even say a number like 50-75% is pretty significant, I think it's probably something to do with how we count covid deaths or perhaps testing although I'll admit I don't know too much about it. Just doesn't make sense to me why flu would go down to that degree while in spite of lockdowns covid is still going strong. Doesn't all add up to me.
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    In 2020, there’s no increase in overall deaths. Covid has decreased every other type of death. To summarize, more covid and less everything else equals same as always.

    A closer look at U.S. deaths due to COVID-19 - The Johns Hopkins News-Letter

    https://web.archive.org/web/20201126...ue-to-covid-19
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    Originally Posted by AlwaysFocus View Post
    The lockdowns are never going away. Everyone complied, we lost.
    This. They know what they got away with, they know what works. They'll just keep pushing the envelope.

    You think they will ever give up the power they got from the Patriot act?
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    It's interesting that with all this talk of vaccines, there's been virtually no talk about going back to anything that resembled normalcy pre-covid even after the vaccines.
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    Originally Posted by JoeDelts View Post
    It's interesting that with all this talk of vaccines, there's been virtually no talk about going back to anything that resembled normalcy pre-covid even after the vaccines.
    Or just maintaining a healthy immune system.
    Even with the vaccine Faucci says that a mask still needs to be worn.





    Sure it’s not some other alternative lol.
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    Originally Posted by Paul Kreul View Post
    Or just maintaining a healthy immune system.
    Even with the vaccine Faucci says that a mask still needs to be worn.





    Sure it’s not some other alternative lol.
    It's like they're getting everyone's hopes up about a vaccine being just around the corner but if you listen carefully, they don't mention anything about going back to normal. People are just filling in the blanks themselves.
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    Originally Posted by Paul Kreul View Post
    In 2020, there’s no increase in overall deaths. Covid has decreased every other type of death. To summarize, more covid and less everything else equals same as always.

    A closer look at U.S. deaths due to COVID-19 - The Johns Hopkins News-Letter

    https://web.archive.org/web/20201126...ue-to-covid-19
    That's because the COVID deaths are inflated. If I get the flu and it develops into pneumonia bronchitis or some other respiratory infection and I die due to those complications that death does not get counted as a flu death. On the other hand, had I started with Covid given the same circumstances it would be counted as a Covid death.
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    I don't think you'll see full lockdowns for the flu season. Australia effectively didn't have a flu season as a result of coronavirus measures but we're not decimating vital industry every winter for the flu, so it was a minor ancillary benefit and interesting data for epidemiologists rather than an annual security measure.

    In terms of flu season, I'm willing to bet good money that the use of masks by non-Asians will go up significantly. You might find some of the vulnerable voluntarily 'lock down' for a few weeks every year since they've probably found ways to do so during covid; you might find flu vaccine take up increasing.

    Now when we have a killer flu season, that will be interesting. A 1918 flu, yeah there will be full lockdowns. Flu is less contagious that covid, so we can contain it better plus we already have vaccines. It should be pretty easy to break it in comparison. Such flu seasons are extremely rare though - might be 10 years or 50 or never.
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