Keto vs eating carbs when gaining muscle and about testosterone

[Strawng]

That's a very noble goal... I don't do that as a profession, but I do think I might write a book at some point detailing my journey, etc.

Just make sure that, before you dive deeper and deeper into this, that you're actually mentally prepared.

Again, it's a VERY slippery slope for people with the genetic predispositions for eating disorders. Even when we 'think' we're done with it, it can sit there waiting to be triggered again, then we relapse, and the cycle starts again. It's happened to me many times before... and in order to start making real progress, I had to eliminate so many controls I became accustomed to.

Oh man...whew...

This. My ED has been very insidious over the years. Sometimes, in recovery, new behaviors creep in seemingly out of nowhere and you'll find yourself snowballing out of control before you even knew what hit you. The trick is to disrupt these new habits or routines as quickly as possible. The sooner you challenge them, the better.

That's great if you want to help people like yourself, but I fully agree with Adam that you should sit for a long time with that decision. Even otherwise healthy people get triggered into ED's from studying nutrition, and I can't tell you how many people I know in nutrition or fitness that clearly never recovered from past EDs. You may be surprised to learn that you have some passions outside of health and fitness. I'm sure you've read about the Minnesota Starvation Experiment. Even those otherwise-healthy men with passions outside of food wanted to become cooks, dietitians, etc. for a brief period before they regained their weight. I get it. I've had a nearly lifelong passion for nutrition, fitness, physiology, and athletics. There's a reason I post on these boards. That being said, I'm so glad I was able to find interests and passions post-ED that trump my interest in those things. I'm beyond thankful to be an artist whose passion has nothing to do with food or fitness. I've even quit my job as a PT in the past because I found harmful behaviors creeping in from having such a body-focused profession. I've never seen someone who previously had an ED succesfully fully recover whilst staying in a body or nutrition-focused field. Hell, not to shade him, but I think the former poster here & competitive eater "Eriktheelectric" is a perfect example of this. He's now doing weekly "food challenges", doing ultramarathons/triathlons and spewing rubbish about David Goggins whilst talking about how he "overcame" his ED. Idk about you, but I wouldn't consider a man who eats tens of thousands of calories of junk food for Youtube in a single sitting and then compensates by exercising for 5+ hours a day "recovered" from anything. He merely traded one set of eating disordered behaviors for another. Again, no hate for the man and I have found his videos entertaining in the past, but he's a clear example of someone whose career has kept him caught in an ED cycle. That being said, If you know nutrition is your calling, then do it...just be open to other things.

Also, imho, nutrition knowledge isn't what ED sufferers need...most of us know all we need to know and more about that chit. We need psychological counseling to allow us to feed ourselves properly and behavioral modification techniques that allow us to challenge our thoughts without identifying with them. If you really want to help people like you & me, I think a degree in psychology may be of more use.

[AdamWW]

Oh man...whew...

You may be surprised to learn that you have some passions outside of health and fitness.

I've never seen someone who previously had an ED succesfully fully recover whilst staying in a body or nutrition-focused field. Hell, not to shade him, but I think the former poster here & competitive eater "Eriktheelectric" is a perfect example of this.

He merely traded one set of eating disordered behaviors for another.

Also, imho, nutrition knowledge isn't what ED sufferers need...most of us know all we need to know and more about that chit.

I wish I could comment on every point you made.... but THESE were the stand-outs... awesome points as always.

I can 100% echo that finding NON-food/nutrition/fitness related hobbies, etc, was critical in getting me to where I am, and I still consider myself IN the process of getting better/recovered.

Also like you said, I have never, ever seen someone who recovered from an ED while immersing themselves in nutrition/diet-focused areas. And indeed, Erik is a prime example of this.

Of course, I cannot pretend to know if he is 'over' his past, but I think a fantastic contrast to someone like Erik is Furious Pete.

Pete is someone who, now, I can fully say I don't get any lingering ED 'vibes' from. In fact, he very much distances himself from food challenges and only does them as RARE stunts because he has a physiological 'gift' of sorts that allows him to do crazy stuff. He's not ever compensating for his eating with starving himself or purging, loading up on low-calorie diet foods, he just lives like a normal dude basically 99% of the time.

Erik, on the other hand, spends anywhere from 4-10hours a day straight trying to burn off his challenges... riding up to 200+ miles on his bike in a SINGLE day... I just don't see how that will ever bode well for his mental state.

And finally, spot-on with the fact that ED sufferers don't need more nutrition knowledge. We don't need 'mindful eating' or any of the modern 'hacks' that some people look to for guidance.

If anything, we need mindLESS eating during which times we relieve ALL the stress and focus from our food and try to satisfy the more hedonic urges that we've taught ourselves to ignore... because in most cases, we've become used to feeling horrible just to control our appearance, weight, or emotions.

[gesten]

So I've been reading that low carb diets lead to low testosterone and that carbs are also muscle sparing. If the keto community argues that ketones replace glucose from carbs for energy, does that mean that testosterone no longer drops and ketones are now muscle sparing?

Which one is it?

No one knows anything

I do carb cyclin have been for 2 years

Low carb for too long means lower free test higher total test

Some say IF can increase androgen sensitivity

IF for too long means lower free t and higher total t(bad)

[zatanoa]

Oh man...whew...

This. My ED has been very insidious over the years. Sometimes, in recovery, new behaviors creep in seemingly out of nowhere and you'll find yourself snowballing out of control before you even knew what hit you. The trick is to disrupt these new habits or routines as quickly as possible. The sooner you challenge them, the better.

That's great if you want to help people like yourself, but I fully agree with Adam that you should sit for a long time with that decision. Even otherwise healthy people get triggered into ED's from studying nutrition, and I can't tell you how many people I know in nutrition or fitness that clearly never recovered from past EDs. You may be surprised to learn that you have some passions outside of health and fitness. I'm sure you've read about the Minnesota Starvation Experiment. Even those otherwise-healthy men with passions outside of food wanted to become cooks, dietitians, etc. for a brief period before they regained their weight. I get it. I've had a nearly lifelong passion for nutrition, fitness, physiology, and athletics. There's a reason I post on these boards. That being said, I'm so glad I was able to find interests and passions post-ED that trump my interest in those things. I'm beyond thankful to be an artist whose passion has nothing to do with food or fitness. I've even quit my job as a PT in the past because I found harmful behaviors creeping in from having such a body-focused profession. I've never seen someone who previously had an ED succesfully fully recover whilst staying in a body or nutrition-focused field. Hell, not to shade him, but I think the former poster here & competitive eater "Eriktheelectric" is a perfect example of this. He's now doing weekly "food challenges", doing ultramarathons/triathlons and spewing rubbish about David Goggins whilst talking about how he "overcame" his ED. Idk about you, but I wouldn't consider a man who eats tens of thousands of calories of junk food for Youtube in a single sitting and then compensates by exercising for 5+ hours a day "recovered" from anything. He merely traded one set of eating disordered behaviors for another. Again, no hate for the man and I have found his videos entertaining in the past, but he's a clear example of someone whose career has kept him caught in an ED cycle. That being said, If you know nutrition is your calling, then do it...just be open to other things.

Also, imho, nutrition knowledge isn't what ED sufferers need...most of us know all we need to know and more about that chit. We need psychological counseling to allow us to feed ourselves properly and behavioral modification techniques that allow us to challenge our thoughts without identifying with them. If you really want to help people like you & me, I think a degree in psychology may be of more use.

Thank you for sharing!

May I ask what do you do now as far as job / studying?

Oh yeah, I do remember him extremely well, I'll just say that I always found him rather weird and funny lol

[broganoff]

Thank you for sharing!

May I ask what do you do now as far as job / studying?

Oh yeah, I do remember him extremely well, I'll just say that I always found him rather weird and funny lol

I actually found this place by doing a google search on Carb Backloading. There was a thread with 20+ pages about it, and IIRC Eric the Electric was one of the main posters in that thread who seemed to believe in it. Which in fairness, I did too at the time lol

[zatanoa]

I actually found this place by doing a google search on Carb Backloading. There was a thread with 20+ pages about it, and IIRC Eric the Electric was one of the main posters in that thread who seemed to believe in it. Which in fairness, I did too at the time lol

What do you mean with believe?

[broganoff]

What do you mean with believe?

I'm paraphrasing based off of memory, so I apologize in advance if I am wrong. IIRC he did post his experiences throughout the carb backloading thread and seemed to have good things to say. This was the extreme version of carb backloading where you go keto for a week+ and then house unlimited carbs in an evening, and it helps you lose fat. In fairness, a lot of us wanted it to be true lol

[Mrpb]

I'm paraphrasing based off of memory, so I apologize in advance if I am wrong. IIRC he did post his experiences throughout the carb backloading thread and seemed to have good things to say. This was the extreme version of carb backloading where you go keto for a week+ and then house unlimited carbs in an evening, and it helps you lose fat. In fairness, a lot of us wanted it to be true lol

Doesn't sound like Erik to be honest. He loved eating carbs all the time.

[broganoff]

Doesn't sound like Erik to be honest. He loved eating carbs all the time.

Maybe not. Although carb backloading would appeal to carb lovers, if it actually worked of course.

[zatanoa]

I'm paraphrasing based off of memory, so I apologize in advance if I am wrong. IIRC he did post his experiences throughout the carb backloading thread and seemed to have good things to say. This was the extreme version of carb backloading where you go keto for a week+ and then house unlimited carbs in an evening, and it helps you lose fat. In fairness, a lot of us wanted it to be true lol

You mean refeeds? I think they have their place when approaching extremely low bodyfat if interested to hold as much muscle as possible

[broganoff]

You mean refeeds? I think they have their place when approaching extremely low bodyfat if interested to hold as much muscle as possible

Carb backloading was basically a glorified, no holds barred free for all refeed that the author basically claimed could circumvent thermodynamics. Just buy the book to find out how!

[Mrpb]

You mean refeeds? I think they have their place when approaching extremely low bodyfat if interested to hold as much muscle as possible

They do have their place but probably not for keto. They kick you out of ketosis, you'll have to readapt again. One study tested keto with refeeds, it got bad results. It's discussed here: https://www.bodybuilding.com/content...questions.html

[zatanoa]

Carb backloading was basically a glorified, no holds barred free for all refeed that the author basically claimed could circumvent thermodynamics. Just buy the book to find out how!

Buying the book and purchasing a lifetime access to a membership site always seems to reveal some ancient black magic , the more expensive the total price , the mightier the magic

[zatanoa]

They do have their place but probably not for keto. They kick you out of ketosis, you'll have to readapt again. One study tested keto with refeeds, it got bad results. It's discussed here: https://www.bodybuilding.com/content...questions.html

Trve

[Strawng]

I wish I could comment on every point you made.... but THESE were the stand-outs... awesome points as always.

I can 100% echo that finding NON-food/nutrition/fitness related hobbies, etc, was critical in getting me to where I am, and I still consider myself IN the process of getting better/recovered.

Also like you said, I have never, ever seen someone who recovered from an ED while immersing themselves in nutrition/diet-focused areas. And indeed, Erik is a prime example of this.

Of course, I cannot pretend to know if he is 'over' his past, but I think a fantastic contrast to someone like Erik is Furious Pete.

Pete is someone who, now, I can fully say I don't get any lingering ED 'vibes' from. In fact, he very much distances himself from food challenges and only does them as RARE stunts because he has a physiological 'gift' of sorts that allows him to do crazy stuff. He's not ever compensating for his eating with starving himself or purging, loading up on low-calorie diet foods, he just lives like a normal dude basically 99% of the time.

Erik, on the other hand, spends anywhere from 4-10hours a day straight trying to burn off his challenges... riding up to 200+ miles on his bike in a SINGLE day... I just don't see how that will ever bode well for his mental state.

And finally, spot-on with the fact that ED sufferers don't need more nutrition knowledge. We don't need 'mindful eating' or any of the modern 'hacks' that some people look to for guidance.

If anything, we need mindLESS eating during which times we relieve ALL the stress and focus from our food and try to satisfy the more hedonic urges that we've taught ourselves to ignore... because in most cases, we've become used to feeling horrible just to control our appearance, weight, or emotions.

Sofa king well said! I srsly wish you would start a blog or something about this stuff. I actually remember thinking the same thing about the contrast between Erik & Furious Pete.

Thank you for sharing!

May I ask what do you do now as far as job / studying?

Oh yeah, I do remember him extremely well, I'll just say that I always found him rather weird and funny lol

I'm a writer, video editor, actor, & stunt man. I went into editing & writing as a day job when being a PT wasn't panning out well for me mentally. It also doesn't pay too well. It's also more or less impossible to do rn because covid's got all our gyms shutdown here in LA. So, needless to say, the change of direction worked out for the best.

& yea Erik's a character no doubt lol. I wish he still posted here tbh.

Doesn't sound like Erik to be honest. He loved eating carbs all the time.

Erik is big into IF & eating all his carbs at night. He's also tried nearly every diet approach under the sun, from very briefly cyclical keto to vegan. I wouldn't be surprised at all if he was into carb backloading for a time, particularly when he was toying with a cyclical keto approach, though I can't say for certainty that was him.