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  1. #1
    Registered User HuckFin1's Avatar
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    Me vs My S*** Tier Genetics in Quest to be a Hot Guy

    This is will be my public workout journal of shame.


    I've been working out regularly, 4 to 5 days a week, for about 8 years. I've gone to the gym with big dudes, learned from them, and I push myself harder than they do but I have poorer results... I'm still skinny fat. I've tried many different diets: Keto, Carnivor, Paleo, Intermittent fasting, prolonged fasting, Calorie counting but I haven't been able to get sustainable results yet with something I've been able to stick with for more than a few months... where my apatite doesn't grow bigger overpower all will power and I gorge until my belly comes right back.


    I've attached my before pictures.


    The strategy I'm going to go hard with, at least for now, is the 4 hour body. I'm reading through it and taking notes at the moment. I have realized, I'm far past my noob gains and can't just do whatever my muscles are craving at the gym anymore. I need to learn more and design higher quality experiments.


    Saying Goodbye to Fruit

    One interesting thing I've learned from the book so far is that fruit makes you fat. Fruit is something I've eating a good amount of because of the Anti-oxidants and the energy boost. But in committing to fully testing Tim Ferris's method, I'm giving up fruit except during my cheat day (Saturday). Giving up fruit and Nuts like Tim Suggest is good for me I think because I binge on those things when they are near me, I can't just eat a little bit.


    Side note:

    While I really do want to gain muscle and loose fat, when there are trade offs I always fully prioritize organ health, healthier skin and anti-aging.
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  2. #2
    Registered User shaneinga's Avatar
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    Going to give some criticism whether you want it or not, hey it's the internet right?

    What lifting program have you been following? Are you following a lifting program that includes progression as it's model to increase weight or reps over time, aka GAINZ?

    As far as diet goes, you say you have tried all of these diets and that you have not been able to get sustainable results. No wonder, you keep hopping off one diet and jumping on the latest fad diet. Of those you mentioned, NONE of them are one I would consider good for easily gaining muscle with the exception of counting calories and monitoring your food intake. I know, I tried Keto myself. Took a lot of convincing myself to do it but I did do it. Regret it now as I wasted a year of lifting on that shi!t.

    I like Tim, but to say that fruit makes you fat is such a blanket statement that I don't really believe he believes that. If he does, it is the in context that he knows that eating a reasonable amount daily is fine. I am pretty sure he leans more towards a ketogenic lifestyle, which is fine, but it has been proven to not be the best diet for gaining muscle if that is indeed your goal.

    Honestly I would quit chasing abs right now as you need to focus on gaining some muscle. Pick a good beginners lifting program. Something like Starting Strength, Fierce 5, Allpro, etc. Pick up a calorie counting app, which I am sure you have used before. Find your maintenance calories and lift while eating at maintenance for a month or 2. Lift with intensity while eating enough food to support some strength gains. Once you top out on your strength gains at maintenance slowly add in some more food. Do that until you stall out of your program. Probably somewhere 9 months from now. Hop on a more advanced training routine and continue to eat for muscle gain. Do this for the next year and a half and then go find your abs.

    Dogmatic diets are good for selling books. They don't typically work in the real world because the only diet that works is one that YOU WILL DO. AKA the diet that you are eating now but more focused and aimed at your current goals whether that be losing weight or gaining muscle. Don't over complicate it. Do you really think you can go the rest of you life not eating fruit? Do you really think that our ancestors got fat with all the fruit they were eating?

    Get a food scale, get a calorie tracking app. Stop losing weight and get on a lifting program that has progression built in. If you don't force adaptation with your lifting and give your body the fuel it needs to actually build muscle than it's not going to change. It is that simple.
    Last edited by shaneinga; 11-24-2020 at 10:59 AM.
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  3. #3
    Registered User HuckFin1's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by shaneinga View Post
    Going to give some criticism whether you want it or not, hey it's the internet right?

    What lifting program have you been following? Are you following a lifting program that includes progression as it's model to increase weight or reps over time, aka GAINZ?

    As far as diet goes, you say you have tried all of these diets and that you have not been able to get sustainable results. No wonder, you keep hopping off one diet and jumping on the latest fad diet. Of those you mentioned, NONE of them are one I would consider good for easily gaining muscle with the exception of counting calories and monitoring your food intake. I know, I tried Keto myself. Took a lot of convincing myself to do it but I did do it. Regret it now as I wasted a year of lifting on that shi!t.

    I like Tim, but to say that fruit makes you fat is such a blanket statement that I don't really believe he believes that. If he does, it is the in context that he knows that eating a reasonable amount daily is fine. I am pretty sure he leans more towards a ketogenic lifestyle, which is fine, but it has been proven to not be the best diet for gaining muscle if that is indeed your goal.

    Honestly I would quit chasing abs right now as you need to focus on gaining some muscle. Pick a good beginners lifting program. Something like Starting Strength, Fierce 5, Allpro, etc. Pick up a calorie counting app, which I am sure you have used before. Find your maintenance calories and lift while eating at maintenance for a month or 2. Lift with intensity while eating enough food to support some strength gains. Once you top out on your strength gains at maintenance slowly add in some more food. Do that until you stall out of your program. Probably somewhere 9 months from now. Hop on a more advanced training routine and continue to eat for muscle gain. Do this for the next year and a half and then go find your abs.

    Dogmatic diets are good for selling books. They don't typically work in the real world because the only diet that works is one that YOU WILL DO. AKA the diet that you are eating now but more focused and aimed at your current goals whether that be losing weight or gaining muscle. Don't over complicate it. Do you really think you can go the rest of you life not eating fruit? Do you really think that our ancestors got fat with all the fruit they were eating?

    Get a food scale, get a calorie tracking app. Stop losing weight and get on a lifting program that has progression built in. If you don't force adaptation with your lifting and give your body the fuel it needs to actually build muscle than it's not going to change. It is that simple.
    Thank you so much for the advice! I haven't been doing a specific program. I'd been doing lifts to hit all the muscles, a push day, a pull day, and then back to push. I had been doing every set to failure and reps until I can't do six-ish in a row, then drop the weight repeat, drop the weight again. More or less until my muscles can't do anything anymore.

    I had been following the advice of CT-Fletcher; Do Arms everyday and don't leave the gym until you have nothing left. Maybe I was over training. Tim pointed out in the four hour body that you can't necessarily copy what big guys do to be like them because everyone's genetics are different, it would be like copying basketball players to become tall. He said you should never do more than 1 hour of lifting a week and will probably reverse your gains if you do.... but then maybe that's to sell books?

    A training program like what you mentioned is probably a good idea for me, as well as the other things. I think possible I was over-training, because I would get stronger after taking a month or two off.

    I think you are right, I'd been chasing random Fad Stuff.
    Last edited by HuckFin1; 11-24-2020 at 09:57 PM.
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  4. #4
    Registered User shaneinga's Avatar
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    shaneinga is offline
    Originally Posted by HuckFin1 View Post
    Thank you so much for the advice! I haven't been doing a specific program. I'd been doing lifts to hit all the muscles, a push day, a pull day, and then back to push. I had been doing every set to failure and reps until I can't do six-ish in a row, then drop the weight repeat, drop the weight again. More or less until my muscles can't do anything anymore.

    I had been following the advice of CT-Fletcher; Do Arms everyday and don't leave the gym until you have nothing left. Maybe I was over training. Tim pointed out in the four hour body that you can't necessarily copy what big guys do to be like them because everyone's genetics are different, it would be like copying basketball players to become tall. He said you should never do more than 1 hour of lifting a week and will probably reverse your gains if you do.... but then maybe that's to sell books?

    A training program like what you mentioned is probably a good idea for me, as well as the other things. I think possible I was over-training, because I would get stronger after taking a month or two off.

    I think you are right, I'd been chasing random Fad Stuff.
    Diet, target your macros. Protein shoot for 1 gram per body weight, fats take your body weight and multiply by .4, and then fill the rest with carbs with whatever calories you have left over. For people to follow in regards to diet I really like Layne Norton and Alan Aragon. They have a no bs approach. Unfortunately it isn't flashy and it doesn't gain them a bunch of followers by demonizing macros or foods. This type of approach focuses on personal responsibility and accountability as a way to right your diet and be able to actually understand HOW to set up your diet yourself. Again, not flashy but it works and you actually learn something along the way that you can continue to implement, on your own, for years to come.

    I like CT Fletcher, he is a motivational guy but if you think he has commanded anything to grow while worrying about if he ate to much fruit that day you are wrong. Like I said, force adaptation aka command that sh!t to grow per CT, and feed the muscles what they need in the form of a surplus of calories within reason and they will grow.

    The biggest balance that is hard to get right is gaining and losing weight at the proper amounts. That is something you need to dial in and it can take a long time to figure this out. However, like I said, I wouldn't diet again until you build a good base of strength. Tap out a good beginners program while eating to support some strength gains. By the time you get to that point you should have a good base built that you can build off of and should understand some basic programming. Then go back to your push pull legs type routine and you can program in some good progression. Or you can jump on a more advanced periodized type of program.

    Good luck. This website has everything you need. You just need to know where to look. Good information is usually stickied at the top of pages and you should start looking there for advice.
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  5. #5
    Registered User HuckFin1's Avatar
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    Thanks again for all the tips.

    When I was counting calories I wasn't counting my macros.


    Kinda feel like the guy who's making lots of excuses, but I've decided to put a pause on attempts to gain muscle for now.



    To meet the basic 1 gram per pound amount, I need at least 192 grams of proteins a day.

    Right now, since I don't have an income stream I'm limiting myself with how often I eat more expenses sources of calories and proteins. I do eat alot of eggs because they are cheap but I'd have to eat dozens of eggs to get anywhere near my requirement.. Cottage Cheese is not too bad in cost, so I'll be eating more of that but not too much because it's still not the cheapest source of my calories...


    So I'm gonna wait until I get an income source to actually up my proteins all the way up to the needed levels.

    I'm actually learning a lot of things to try once I have an income.


    But for now, I've decided I'll spend some time on building the habits that should help me once I can afford the other components.

    I'll be starting/learning "Occam's protocol" on Monday. It's the lifting Protocol from the 4 hour body.

    And I'll get in the habit of recording my measurements and my lifts, in the 4 hour body app; Which should help me know when I need to run experiments tweaking things when I've Plateaued.


    Other habits that I've started tracking today, with a habit tracker are 10 mins meditation a day and 10 minutes goal visualization. It might not be much now, but I think this will help me keep a clear head and stay motivated as I gradually get into the groove of things.



    Anyways, I'll just be working on those things. I might not post here much for a while, but once I've got everything in my life in order I'll come back.
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  6. #6
    Registered User HuckFin1's Avatar
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    TLDR: Nothing significant, lost 1 inch off my waistline


    Starting on 2nd week of Occam's razor Protocol from the 4 hour body app. It's only 2 sessions, each with 2 workouts of 1 set each week. So almost nothing but you're suppose to push as hard as you can. I'm want to test it for at least 2 months to see if I can progress.

    After the first week, I'm the same weight but I've lost an inch off my waist line (Also following 4hr body nutrition guidance), my arms are the same circumference, and my body fat percent is the same (depending on the accuracy of my scale). I think I look healthier in the pictures I took.

    The first week I did mess up my back and couldn't move my head too much after the second workout but although I still have some pain, most of the pain is gone and almost all my mobility is back. I've been stretching everyday to get it back. I also threw up a little in my mouth after a set which was a first for lifting for me, and was wheezing for like an hour... I am such a decrepit old man lol, but happy I can push my lungs and organs and stuff with just one set.
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  7. #7
    Registered User HuckFin1's Avatar
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    Progressing on all my lifts so far this week, and progressed on all of them last week. I'm loving this routine/workouts.

    KEEPING WORKOUTS CONSISTENT - TO MEASURE CHANGES OF OTHER VARIABLES

    It's really short workouts so I have to resist the urge to stay in the gym longer. But this is simple, easy, and if I ever plateau in my workouts I'll know I need to experiment with other variables (nutrition, Sleep, Supplements, etc.) until I break though.

    My biggest barriers to success in my past have been changing too many variables at once so I was uncertain about what's really working, as well as not tracking my lifts for long enough to again know what works and what doesn't. The rest time also has to be standardized, or too many variables are fluctuating to know what's making a difference. The simplicity and the app (4 hr body app) make all that easy.


    OTHER VARIABLES

    So I did add a weekly fasting day before my cheat day. I'm not sure if this will have a positive or negative effect on my muscle goals but the Anti-aging benefits such as Autophagy as too good to not make a part of my weekly routine and the benefits are much greater with a full fasting day than with OMAD or other fasting protocols (from the studies I've read). Multiple days in a row would be too big a challenge for muscle building and more difficult to make a weekly habit that becomes automatic no matter what so I'll be sticking with one full fasting day a week (started last week).

    This week I'm going to start, starting off my cheat day with protein to rebuild from the fasting day, as I've read that helps. From past experiments I've learned that I when I choose to eat junk food I'll still eat thousands of calories of it even if I decided to "fill" myself up on healthy before so I see little reason to suspect that this will interfere with the cheat days purpose of ensuring my metabolism doesn't slow down.

    So far with my cheat days my metabolism doesn't appear to be slowing down and I have a good amount of energy generally throughout the week. Although my energy levels seemed a little bit slower towards the end of the week, so it's possible my metabolism is slowing down a little at the end of the week and then the cheat day restarts it. I'll see how this week goes.

    I'm not going to change any other variables this week to make it easier to figure out what's working. There are plenty of things I want to try like adding Sauerkraut to increase testosterone production but I'm restraining myself from my former messy habit of trying tons of things and then not knowing what's working.

    If my eight years of negligible progress have taught me anything, it's that I need to be precise in my experiments or I'll be wandering aimlessly without a compass and likely never reach my goal.
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  8. #8
    Registered User HuckFin1's Avatar
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    TAKING 1 WEEK OFF

    I progressed in strength on all my workouts again last week. So far the increased rest time is really working out for me.

    I'm feeling a little sick, flem in throat and cough. I don't want to get caught coughing at the gym, especially with Covid around the world. Also feeling a little weaker.


    So I've decided to take the week off, no lifting. It will also be a good initial test to see what taking a week off does to my strength. So far adding rest time is increasing my strength but there will obviously be some optimum amount of time for me, so this is a great initial test.


    NO FAT LOSS

    As far as body fat, I'm just not changing week to week. In the past I've tried calorie restriction but my metabolism just adopts and I loose all my energy, become sluggish and never loose that belly fat. I also become uncontrollable hungry even when sticking to only whole foods.


    The next test I'm considering for this is garlic extract. I'm going to give it two more weeks before that though, to have a longer baseline and ensure I really have flatlined.


    I will be researching Garlic Extract before I take any to ensure it doesn't work by upregulating or downregulating processes, which could cause short term effects for studies but long term adaptation and dependence. And I need to do more research on the effects to make sure they are not just B.S., for example increased anti-oxidants in the blood is not necessarily a good thing because too much causes increased damage.
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  9. #9
    Registered User HuckFin1's Avatar
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    This forum is unreliable as far as posting not working a lot of the time. I did some research and learned this has been an ongoing issues for years.

    Anyways, rather than waste time with it I'm keeping my own private journal on my local machine to record research and experiments to see what breaks me through my plateaus. There's more than enough advice online for me to keep experimenting with things, so I should be good.
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  10. #10
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    Posting hardly ever works anymore. Continuing to record research and experiments to break through plateaus but not publicly or here on this forum because it's broke. lol
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