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Thread: Will you get vaccinated?
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01-20-2022, 08:18 AM #6511
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01-20-2022, 08:46 AM #6512
My freedom has not been impacted.
For some this is true, for the vast majority it is not
I am proud to be in this camp, I exercise, eat right and do what I can to increase my longevity. I am out in Nature almost daily, be it fishing, hunting, hiking, skiing, snowshoeing etc....
I would do a lot to get an extra day or longer of this, I am too busy living and not in a hurry to crawl in a hole for a dirt nap and feed the worms.Air Force Veteran 1976 - 1999 - Cannabis Enthusiast since the 1960's
Retired at 40 Crew - Social distancing expert - Living the Dream
I use the gender neutral pronouns "Fukker/Fukkers" a lot.
****** I don't always agree with the memes I post ******
I tell it like it is, if you want smoke blown up your ass or something sugar coated. I suggest you get a Hooker and a powdered donut.
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01-20-2022, 08:52 AM #6513Air Force Veteran 1976 - 1999 - Cannabis Enthusiast since the 1960's
Retired at 40 Crew - Social distancing expert - Living the Dream
I use the gender neutral pronouns "Fukker/Fukkers" a lot.
****** I don't always agree with the memes I post ******
I tell it like it is, if you want smoke blown up your ass or something sugar coated. I suggest you get a Hooker and a powdered donut.
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01-20-2022, 08:56 AM #6514
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01-20-2022, 09:05 AM #6515
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01-20-2022, 09:27 AM #6516
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01-20-2022, 09:43 AM #6517
I feel like the covid narrative and power grab is finally ending?
UK announced they are no longer allowing mandates or masks anymore and encouraging returning to work etc.
Current CEO is dispersing information as if it were new info about omicron, info most of us have had weeks ago about how mild the symptoms are. Is this finally the end of the clown world and shenanigans?★★★ A State of Trance Crew ★★★
♞♞♞ Misc Horse Head Crew ♞♞♞
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01-20-2022, 09:47 AM #6518
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01-20-2022, 09:48 AM #6519
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01-20-2022, 09:50 AM #6520
Wait till the Anti Vax crowd sees this
Air Force Veteran 1976 - 1999 - Cannabis Enthusiast since the 1960's
Retired at 40 Crew - Social distancing expert - Living the Dream
I use the gender neutral pronouns "Fukker/Fukkers" a lot.
****** I don't always agree with the memes I post ******
I tell it like it is, if you want smoke blown up your ass or something sugar coated. I suggest you get a Hooker and a powdered donut.
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01-20-2022, 10:06 AM #6521
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01-20-2022, 12:05 PM #6522
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01-20-2022, 12:09 PM #6523
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01-20-2022, 03:10 PM #6524
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01-20-2022, 04:47 PM #6525
Which is certainly possible. This virus is still generating a great deal of genetic variation. I won’t go as far as saying that it’s likely, but I wouldn’t be surprised if we see a more virulent and exploitative variant arise in the next 1-2 years. Keeping up with vaccination can help minimize that risk.
"Seen in the light of evolution, biology is, perhaps, intellectually the most satisfying and inspiring science. Without that light it becomes a pile of sundry facts -- some of them interesting or curious but making no meaningful picture as a whole."
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01-20-2022, 05:05 PM #6526
My guess is we’re done however the virus scares accomplished a lot for certain politicians and drug companies that I’d imagine that they’re going to invent a new strain
Last edited by Tommy W.; 01-22-2022 at 06:47 AM.
If you don't get what you want you didn't want it bad enough
Pro Choice
Non Christian
MAGA
2A Advocate
FJB
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01-22-2022, 03:57 AM #6527Air Force Veteran 1976 - 1999 - Cannabis Enthusiast since the 1960's
Retired at 40 Crew - Social distancing expert - Living the Dream
I use the gender neutral pronouns "Fukker/Fukkers" a lot.
****** I don't always agree with the memes I post ******
I tell it like it is, if you want smoke blown up your ass or something sugar coated. I suggest you get a Hooker and a powdered donut.
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01-22-2022, 04:11 AM #6528
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01-22-2022, 05:10 AM #6529
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01-22-2022, 08:03 AM #6530
They’re probably still having some effect on transmission, admittedly less than for previous variants.
The vaccines may reduce the risk of a virulent variant in other ways, too. Reducing overall replication within the host limits the generation of genetic diversity. Inducing an immune response and protection in tissues of the LRT selects against variants with tropism for these cells."Seen in the light of evolution, biology is, perhaps, intellectually the most satisfying and inspiring science. Without that light it becomes a pile of sundry facts -- some of them interesting or curious but making no meaningful picture as a whole."
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01-22-2022, 09:46 AM #6531
Sure theoretically, just as a leaky vaccine can also lead to a more virulent strain because a random mutation finds a niche that it can exploit. Given the transmission rate, it’s pretty safe to say the vaccines are doing very little if anything to reduce transmission. Our positivity rate was nearly 20% a couple weeks ago, declining now. Deaths and hospitalizations remain elevated but declining. In my occupational setting, there were times when 80-90% of cases were in vaccinated people. I’m not even sure what our vaccination rate is officially, but I can’t imagine it’s over 60%. I think some people are just more inclined to testing frequently, as a majority of our cases in people are very mild and many asymptomatic.
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01-22-2022, 12:18 PM #6532
Not really how it works for leaky vaccines. I’m intimately familiar with Read’s work. He actually came out and gave an interview because his work was being misconstrued. Ironically, the very argument that leaky vaccines can select for higher virulence is dependent on high effectiveness against severe disease outcomes.
Theoretical doesn’t mean the insight isn’t valuable. If our health officials had a better understanding of the principles of natural selection, we may have avoided the confusing messages being delivered to the public."Seen in the light of evolution, biology is, perhaps, intellectually the most satisfying and inspiring science. Without that light it becomes a pile of sundry facts -- some of them interesting or curious but making no meaningful picture as a whole."
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01-22-2022, 02:49 PM #6533
It is how it works, it’s a fundamental principle of biology. Vaccines are intended to illicit an immune response to an antigen. Since the covid vaccines illicit an immune response specific to the S protein, rather than all of the mechanisms associated with an actual infection, the response is narrower in scope. This allows an immune response with less risk than infection, but an immune response to a specific component of of the virus (S protein). So when you have a large population being infected by a virus, chances are, through natural selection and random chance of genetic changes from transcription errors, it becomes likely to propagate a virus that exploits a niche that allows it to survive in that environment. So now we are not slowing genetic mutations because the vaccines don’t prevent infection or transmission.
I did a study in an applied environmental microbiology class in college where we collected soil samples in grass/dirt parking areas where there was chronic oil contamination from leaking oils. These samples contained large populations of bacteria that metabolized oil. The availability of the oil allowed populations to flourish because these bacteria exploited a niche. While viruses don’t have any metabolic processes, they still exploit niches whether natural or manmade. We’ve effectively selected for a strain that exploits an advantage in that it is not affected by our antibodies to the S protein. This is independent of virulence, omicron could have been more, less, or the same severity of the previous variant. The mutations are random, host environmental factors are not.
Keep taken those boosters though. Surely trying the same thing the didn’t work over and over will work eventually right? It’s science cause fauci and Pfizer said so.Last edited by Plateauplower; 01-22-2022 at 03:05 PM.
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01-22-2022, 03:29 PM #6534
You should’ve taken my course instead. I could’ve conveyed the principle so you actually understood it.
It’s a life history trade off. Higher exploitation brings with it higher within host reproductive success, but curtails onward transmission prospects. When vaccines delay mortality (or reduce disease severity) but permit considerable transmission, they relax the cost of higher within host exploitation. This selects for more harmful variants. These variants can circulate successfully in vaccinated populations causing low disease severity, but will cause severe infections in the unvaccinated. Targeting a specific antigen doesn’t make a vaccine leaky. Recall that our mRNA vaccines were highly effective against infection for the wild type. It is more nuanced than that. It is about how the immune response targets the pathogen in relation to its life cycle in the host. This is why evolutionary biologists have raised concern about certain malaria vaccines that target merozoites but not the gametocytes. Or why targeting a toxin that is a by product of a pathogen’s life cycle will ultimately favor selection for higher toxin production. My PhD advisor was one of the pioneers of this entire field."Seen in the light of evolution, biology is, perhaps, intellectually the most satisfying and inspiring science. Without that light it becomes a pile of sundry facts -- some of them interesting or curious but making no meaningful picture as a whole."
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01-22-2022, 05:10 PM #6535
Well I was probably taking these classes when you were learning to ride a tricycle, so I’m sure there have been some updates. That said, I continue to believe when you have a very specific immune target (S protein) you are missing a large part of the “puzzle” with regard to immune response and efficacy. When I was in school the cutting edge stuff was mRNA vaccines, but that metaphorically, using mushrooms as an example would target the stem rather than the cap. This is to say that there is a lot of variation in button mushroom caps for example, but the stems are all nearly identical. If you can develop a vaccine that targets something that is not easily changed in a bacteria or virus, you can avoid the impact that slight mutations have and end up with a vaccine that will continue to work unless significant genetic changes occur in the pathogen. This was intended for influenza viruses because of their ability to h share genetic material with other influenza viruses.
If you think the current vaccines are curtailing onward transmission prospects, I’ve got some bad news…They are completely ineffective from what I’ve been seeing both in regional numbers and in our workplace of 2000 or so.
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01-22-2022, 05:27 PM #6536
What's that quote? Repeating the same thing over and over and expecting a different result is the definition of insanity? how many more boosters are we looking at? In reality I think we're done. First shot was "Yay! a vaccine" then the second shot was "OK I guess we need to do this". The booster was "wow, again?" I don't think many will take a 4th.
If you don't get what you want you didn't want it bad enough
Pro Choice
Non Christian
MAGA
2A Advocate
FJB
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01-22-2022, 06:00 PM #6537
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01-22-2022, 10:07 PM #6538
You’re going back and forth between two separate but interconnected topics.
What you’re talking about is targeting conserved regions. In evolutionary biology we can test for positive selection (we literally quantify it), and when we see conserved regions that have undergone very little selective change, it’s a clue that the polypeptide might be a good target for drug or vaccine mechanisms. This has been in the C19 literature since day. But as of now, there is no better option than the spike protein and if there is, I applaud and support the development.
A more robust response doesn’t necessarily stymie evolution. Think of your mushroom analogy in the context of naturally acquired immunity. NAI has failed miserably at driving pathogens to extinction. In fact, I know of no example in history of a circulating human pathogen being driven to extinction from NAI."Seen in the light of evolution, biology is, perhaps, intellectually the most satisfying and inspiring science. Without that light it becomes a pile of sundry facts -- some of them interesting or curious but making no meaningful picture as a whole."
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01-23-2022, 01:35 PM #6539Air Force Veteran 1976 - 1999 - Cannabis Enthusiast since the 1960's
Retired at 40 Crew - Social distancing expert - Living the Dream
I use the gender neutral pronouns "Fukker/Fukkers" a lot.
****** I don't always agree with the memes I post ******
I tell it like it is, if you want smoke blown up your ass or something sugar coated. I suggest you get a Hooker and a powdered donut.
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01-23-2022, 03:34 PM #6540
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