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  1. #4741
    Registered User 7Seconds's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by NorwichGrad View Post
    So much this ^^.

    I say again, over. This is NEVER about the jab and rona. This is about curtailing Liberties and encroachment of what's left of our freedoms.

    Joe: You are safe if you are jabbed.

    Also Joe: You are NOT safe from the unjabbed.

    Gubmint is notorious for taking a mile when Humanity gives an inch.

    We are being conditioned to blindly follow the mandates of the state. Next thing they will tell us to shove bananas up our sphincter, and those who choose NOT to have a banana in their buttholes will be turned into an outcast.

    I'd rather be free without a banana in my butthole. The rest of the nuthugging gubmint sheep can walk around with a banana in their bungholios.

    While I agree vaccine mandates are proving to people that government will overstep its bounds if left unchecked but they aren't new or constitution-breaking and the apocalyptic tyranny bit is a tad much.

    Likewise, people refusing getting vaccinated and filling up hospitals is proving that leaving people to their own device and not implementing mandates may be a bit inadequate. To be clear, I am not in favor of government-mandated vaccines but I suppose that’s my problem with my libertarianism. There's theory and reality. They don’t often intersect, and if they do, it doesn't last long.
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  2. #4742
    Crawling back under rock OldFartTom's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by NorwichGrad View Post
    ...I'd rather be free without a banana in my butthole. The rest of the nuthugging gubmint sheep can walk around with a banana in their bungholios.
    I think bananas would be stretching the matter too far
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  3. #4743
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    Originally Posted by 7Seconds View Post
    To be clear, I am not in favor of government-mandated vaccines but I suppose that’s my problem with my libertarianism. There's theory and reality. They don’t often intersect, and if they do, it doesn't last long.
    I love this ^ and will rep when able.
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    Italy becomes the first European country to require a COVID passport to go to work

    Italy will require all workers to have a valid COVID passport, as the government led by Prime Minister Mario Draghi moves to set the toughest vaccination requirements in Europe.

    A cabinet meeting Thursday approved the measure, which applies to all public and private-sector workers and will come into force Oct. 15. Workers faces fines of as much as 1,500 euros ($1,763) for noncompliance, while employers who fail to check their workers may have to pay as much as 1,000 euros.
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  6. #4746
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    Originally Posted by 7Seconds View Post
    While I agree vaccine mandates are proving to people that government will overstep its bounds if left unchecked but they aren't new or constitution-breaking and the apocalyptic tyranny bit is a tad much.

    Likewise, people refusing getting vaccinated and filling up hospitals is proving that leaving people to their own device and not implementing mandates may be a bit inadequate. To be clear, I am not in favor of government-mandated vaccines but I suppose that’s my problem with my libertarianism. There's theory and reality. They don’t often intersect, and if they do, it doesn't last long.
    Speaking of theory and reality.

    Do you want to encourage more people to take the jab?

    Here are real solutions:

    a. Don't force the jab. Good ideas require no force. You should know this as Libertarian.

    b. Allow all scientists to present their findings, especially third-party scientists. No more banning.

    c. Make big pharma liable for jab injuries.

    Boom. I guarantee more freedom-loving unjabbed doods would voluntarily take the jab.
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  7. #4747
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    Originally Posted by NorwichGrad View Post

    a. Don't force the jab. Good ideas require no force. You should know this as Libertarian.
    As I said I am against government mandates as there is certainly no libertarian argument in favor of vaccine mandates, I also don't think there is a libertarian solution to pandemics either.

    b. Allow all scientists to present their findings, especially third-party scientists. No more banning.
    I don’t know how we tell private companies who they allow and don’t allow on their platforms.

    c. Make big pharma liable for jab injuries.
    The government has assumed the liability for vaccines since the 80’s through NVICP.

    Boom. I guarantee more freedom-loving unjabbed doods would voluntarily take the jab.
    Honestly, I doubt anything would change as this is as much about the divisive atmosphere behind the vaccine as it is the vaccine itself. If we were in a different social and political climate, then the vaccination would not be nearly the issue it is today.
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  8. #4748
    Han shot first! TolerantLactose's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by 7Seconds View Post
    I don’t know how we tell private companies who they allow and don’t allow on their platforms.
    Easy. Social media companies enjoy immunity from prosecution to host content in order to foster free exchange of ideas. If they curate (ban) content, they become publishers. Liability should then attach. In the US, this protection comes under section 230 of the Communication Decency Act. Remove their protection if they continue down this path.
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  9. #4749
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    Originally Posted by TolerantLactose View Post
    Easy. Social media companies enjoy immunity from prosecution to host content in order to foster free exchange of ideas. If they curate (ban) content, they become publishers. Liability should then attach. In the US, this protection comes under section 230 of the Communication Decency Act. Remove their protection if they continue down this path.

    230 is the only thing that's keeping big social media companies tolerating the constant conspiracies and any alternative platforms like Parler will be sued out of existence given it's 50% doxxing and death threats.

    It doesn’t change how they can curate our posts as a user. Removal of the protections of 230 would actually result in more curation and editing, and far less free interaction.

    Let’s say that how Facebook currently curates content on their site meets the legal definition of acting as a publisher. In this scenario, yes - they would lose the liability protections of 230. They’re now liable for 3rd party content - and thus liable for defamation, slander, etc.

    But a publisher under the law still has the right to choose what they publish. Websites, forums, newspaper, book publishers, etc can choose not to publish, even if the content is not illegal.

    Section 230 does not really matter in a websites post removal. Section 230 doesn’t stop you as a user from being restricted in what you can and can’t say. If only affects the website’s liability.

    Becoming a “publisher” means that Facebook would be even more inclined to decide what was and wasn’t shared, posted, or commented to avoid legal issues. Even with talks of social media being a “town square” and all that, as of right now, they have every right to remove posts as private companies. 230 just changes what they can be sued for.
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  10. #4750
    Han shot first! TolerantLactose's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by 7Seconds View Post
    230 is the only thing that's keeping big social media companies tolerating the constant conspiracies and any alternative platforms like Parler will be sued out of existence given it's 50% doxxing and death threats.

    It doesn’t change how they can curate our posts as a user. Removal of the protections of 230 would actually result in more curation and editing, and far less free interaction.

    Let’s say that how Facebook currently curates content on their site meets the legal definition of acting as a publisher. In this scenario, yes - they would lose the liability protections of 230. They’re now liable for 3rd party content - and thus liable for defamation, slander, etc.

    But a publisher under the law still has the right to choose what they publish. Websites, forums, newspaper, book publishers, etc can choose not to publish, even if the content is not illegal.

    Section 230 does not really matter in a websites post removal. Section 230 doesn’t stop you as a user from being restricted in what you can and can’t say. If only affects the website’s liability.

    Becoming a “publisher” means that Facebook would be even more inclined to decide what was and wasn’t shared, posted, or commented to avoid legal issues. Even with talks of social media being a “town square” and all that, as of right now, they have every right to remove posts as private companies. 230 just changes what they can be sued for.
    Yes, removing 230 would lead to more banning of content. It would make them irrelevant and they know it.
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    Originally Posted by TolerantLactose View Post
    Yes, removing 230 would lead to more banning of content. It would make them irrelevant and they know it.
    It would make any site driven by user content irrelevant. If you were the government and wanted to kneecap a major corporate sector that by and large opposes you, while eliminating a huge organization tool of the masses, this would be how you do it.
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  12. #4752
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    Originally Posted by TolerantLactose View Post
    Easy. Social media companies enjoy immunity from prosecution to host content in order to foster free exchange of ideas. If they curate (ban) content, they become publishers. Liability should then attach. In the US, this protection comes under section 230 of the Communication Decency Act. Remove their protection if they continue down this path.
    Bingo. And strange how these independent Private media companies are generally in lock step with a leftist philosophy in what they publish. Free speech is amongst the most sacred of our freedoms. That's where MY libertarianism feels the tension.

    Strange how 'libertarian' 7S feels the government should force an experimental jab into the bodies of citizens but no concern that the government is not protecting free speech.

    Dig hard and find medical discussion about the 2 jabs causing variants, not natural immunity,
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    Moderna Covid vaccine is the most effective against hospitalization at 93% compared to Pfizer shot at 88% and Johnson & Johnson jab at 71%, CDC study suggests
    Researchers looked at the efficacy of three COVID-19 vaccines authorized in the U.S.: Moderna, Pfizer-BioNTech and Johnson & Johnson/Janssen
    They found that 11.3% of hospitalized patients vaccinated with Moderna
    Comparatively, 17.3% of patients vaccinated with Pfizer contracted the disease as did 32.7% of hospitalized J&J recipients
    They found that the Moderna shot is 93% effective against hospitalization compared to 88% for the Pfizer vaccine and 71% for Johnson & Johnson
    Antibody levels in blood samples were highest among Moderna recipients in a separate group of healthy volunteers
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  14. #4754
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    Originally Posted by KeepItMoving View Post
    Dig hard and find medical discussion about the 2 jabs causing variants, not natural immunity,
    Prior to the mass censorship, I was finding quite a few articles mentioning this as a possibility.
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    Originally Posted by KeepItMoving View Post
    Bingo. And strange how these independent Private media companies are generally in lock step with a leftist philosophy in what they publish. Free speech is amongst the most sacred of our freedoms. That's where MY libertarianism feels the tension.

    Strange how 'libertarian' 7S feels the government should force an experimental jab into the bodies of citizens but no concern that the government is not protecting free speech.

    Dig hard and find medical discussion about the 2 jabs causing variants, not natural immunity,
    Feel free to point out where I said I support a government mandate on vaccines. Private businesses are a different beast.



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    It’s pretty clear. It dictates that the government shall not silence speech. It does not say that the government must force a private business to publish your speech.
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    Originally Posted by TolerantLactose View Post
    Easy. Social media companies enjoy immunity from prosecution to host content in order to foster free exchange of ideas. If they curate (ban) content, they become publishers. Liability should then attach. In the US, this protection comes under section 230 of the Communication Decency Act. Remove their protection if they continue down this path.
    Here's another idea: go after them for campaign contributions. Every time they suppress information to favor a political side, that gets counted as a dollar amount of political contribution. Once they hit the limit, they either have to stop suppressing information or get prosecuted.
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  17. #4757
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    ?

    If vaccines are so important why is congress and judicial branch exempt from Joe’s mandate?
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    Originally Posted by Kilted100 View Post
    If vaccines are so important why is congress and judicial branch exempt from Joe’s mandate?

    So, the executive branch can’t set policy for congress. Is this surprising?

    It’s the same for the judiciary. (That’s why they’re also exempt.)

    The executive branch can only set policy for themselves. And thanks to Congress creating OSHA 50 years ago, the private sector as well.
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    Originally Posted by _zman View Post
    Prior to the mass censorship, I was finding quite a few articles mentioning this as a possibility.
    Yes, as soon as some of the medical studies, ie: out of Israel, started to come out, big tech squashed the information because we stupid citizens can't handle the truth.

    And to posit the notion that government has no role in passing laws to define an/or protect against the violation of free speech is ludicrous. Some of the most famous cases in judicial history deal with that exact subject.
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    Originally Posted by 7Seconds View Post
    So, the executive branch can’t set policy for congress. Is this surprising?

    It’s the same for the judiciary. (That’s why they’re also exempt.)

    The executive branch can only set policy for themselves. And thanks to Congress creating OSHA 50 years ago, the private sector as well.
    The USPS is exempt.

    I heard Pfizer, Moderna and the CDC are exempt from the policy as well. Don't know if it's true.
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    Originally Posted by TolerantLactose View Post
    The USPS is exempt.
    The postal workers are not included in the executive order mandate because they are not federal employees, but are included under the version that OSHA is rolling out.

    I heard Pfizer, Moderna and the CDC are exempt from the policy as well. Don't know if it's true.
    Yes, they were included in Probsiec’s tweet but there is no reason they won’t be required in the OSHA standard of vaccination or weekly testing.
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    Even after the 8 hr FDA Conference Call, which showed Vax Kills 5 for every 1 life it saves....
    People still trust this chit.

    Unfukinbelievable

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=18668&...ature=youtu.be

    Now skip to 4:12:00

    And after second dose..people are WORSE OFF

    Looks like everything that all the “Conspiracy Theorists” have been claiming, we were right all along.
    Last edited by Paul Kreul; 09-18-2021 at 01:09 PM.
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    Originally Posted by Paul Kreul View Post
    Even after the 8 hr FDA Conference Call, which showed Vax Kills 5 for every 1 life it saves....
    People still trust this chit.

    Unfukinbelievable

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=18668&...ature=youtu.be

    Now skip to 4:12:00

    And after second dose..people are WORSE OFF

    Looks like everything that all the “Conspiracy Theorists” have been claiming, we were right all along.
    Booster shot will fix that right up...
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    Originally Posted by TolerantLactose View Post
    Booster shot will fix that right up...
    Surely. That's why the top 2 FDA officials just left. Theyre leaving town...“the president is getting ahead of himself, where boosters are concerned”
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    The two top FDA officials responsible for vaccine research resigned last week and this week signed a letter in The Lancet that strongly warns against vaccine boosters:

    There could be risks,” they write, “if boosters are widely introduced too soon, or too frequently, especially with vaccines that can have immune-mediated side-effects (such as myocarditis, which is more common after the second dose of some mRNA vaccines, or Guillain-Barre syndrome, which has been associated with adenovirus-vectored COVID-19 vaccines.”)

    https://www.thelancet.com/journals/l...046-8/fulltext

    Meanwhile, studies are showing that for teenage boys, the vaccine poses a greater risk (https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1....21262866v1)to them than Covid itself. “For boys 16-17 without medical comorbidities, the rate of CAE is currently 2.1 to 3.5 times higher than their 120-day COVID-19 hospitalization risk, and 1.5 to 2.5 times higher at times of high weekly COVID-19 hospitalization.”

    https://brownstone.org/articles/the-...-resignations/
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    Originally Posted by Paul Kreul View Post
    Even after the 8 hr FDA Conference Call, which showed Vax Kills 5 for every 1 life it saves....
    People still trust this chit.

    Unfukinbelievable

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=18668&...ature=youtu.be

    Now skip to 4:12:00

    And after second dose..people are WORSE OFF

    Looks like everything that all the “Conspiracy Theorists” have been claiming, we were right all along.
    Oh hey Paul what's new?
    Any vacations planned, been to any cool restaurants lately?
    How are your fav sports teams doing?
    There is an unspoken thing, we are iron brothers and sisters, we are to support each other and...It is our duty to support our brothers and sisters in the iron game!
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    Originally Posted by x-trainer ben View Post
    Oh hey Paul what's new?
    Any vacations planned, been to any cool restaurants lately?
    How are your fav sports teams doing?
    Been to 8 different states this year.
    Cubs are back to normal.
    Favorite German restaurant remolded & went to chit.
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    Ah, Paul returns. Now we wait for JustDad to inform us why everything he is posting is inaccurate.
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