I wish, but thank you
Hold the phones! First, when did YOU decide to accept the CDC as an authority on English, much less immunology or anything else? Second, it doesn't say complete immunity. Third, Webster's says: :" a preparation containing usually killed or weakened microorganisms (as bacteria or viruses) that is given usually by injection to increase protection against a particular disease. vaccine. noun."
I'll check my antique Stedman's later for fun. Can't right now because it's in my wife's office, but regardless of whose definition we accept, they all seem to agree that increasing your immunity, resistance, protection seems to make something a vaccine. But it's silly of us to discuss semantics when the second part of your post is what's really important, and we agree on stuff like that to a large degree. And, in the ultimate display of egotism, I'm going to quote myself from another thread to confirm that even though it's not 100% aligned.
Requiring anything with risks, no matter how small those risks are, is something that needs to be evaluated very carefully. Whether or not we should be requiring a vaccine against the wild type strain when the bigger concern is the delta strain is a complicated question. In my opinion it depends on why, when, for whom, and for what privileges. Nobody goes to jail for not getting it, so really, that last question is what rights do you potentially give up if you don't want it, and I don't know what's reasonable or appropriate. (I feel like I say "I don't know" an awful lot on this thread)
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Thread: Will you get vaccinated?
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08-26-2021, 12:26 PM #4261
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08-26-2021, 01:20 PM #4262
Believe it or not, in my early college years I was premed with a goal of working at the CDC ideally with emerging dangerous diseases (LOL glad I didn't SRS). I later decided that I would be so in debt with student loans by the time I finished that career path that I'd likely never be able to pay it off, especially making GS pay for the CDC. That said, the definition is what is posted on the CDCs website, I guess nobody gave them the memo.
We agree on the vaccine thing, and I've seen other posts of your's indicting that. I believe that if the severity of COVID was significant enough (similar to smallpox for example which is disfiguring and a 30% +- CFR) there would not need to be coercion. Then again, maybe not as there are a lot of similarities between 1918 and 2020/21 with regard to how the public responds to a public health crisis. "I/we don't know" is a perfectly acceptable response in a situation like this and I wish the CDC/FDA would use that more rather than making definitive statements that they simply need to walk back, sometimes days later as was the case for the boosters. They would not have lost as much credibility, and people would be more willing to trust their "recommendations" rather than the constant flip flopping on "mandates" that we have seen. I 100% agree with the recommendation that people get vaccinated, but that's where it ends for me. Provide the information in an honest and straightforward way, and allow people to take precautions and make their personal medical decisions on their own.
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08-26-2021, 02:24 PM #4263Air Force Veteran 1976 - 1999 - Cannabis Enthusiast since the 1960's
Retired at 40 Crew - Social distancing expert - Living the Dream
I use the gender neutral pronouns "Fukker/Fukkers" a lot.
****** I don't always agree with the memes I post ******
I tell it like it is, if you want smoke blown up your ass or something sugar coated. I suggest you get a Hooker and a powdered donut.
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08-26-2021, 03:23 PM #4264
Yes, some vaccines are intended to work that way. Many anti-toxin vaccines are anti-disease with small impacts on transmission. Natural infection doesn’t always induce sterilizing immunity either, including against sarscov2. Should we not call that immunity?
To your other point, yes and no. I don’t have time now, but heterogeneous vaccination will slow that down. Additionally, vaccines are reducing the ability of the pathogen to generate genetic diversity, even if leaky. This is why historically drug resistance evolves much faster than vaccine evasion. But yeah with leaky vaccines that is a concern. The alternative, vaccinate the elderly and not the young and healthy, is not well thought out from an evolutionary perspective imo.
Delta’s fitness advantage stems more from mechanisms for increased host exploitation and less due to its ability to avoid targeting by preexisting immunity."Seen in the light of evolution, biology is, perhaps, intellectually the most satisfying and inspiring science. Without that light it becomes a pile of sundry facts -- some of them interesting or curious but making no meaningful picture as a whole."
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08-27-2021, 03:18 AM #4265
So vaccine talk aside for one post, I just found out it's impossible to get a quick and easy Covid test for common folk in my area which is crazy because I believe testing is very important to stopping spread. I have some light Covid like symptoms and a heavy schedule over the next week so wanted to get a test and every testing place that doesn't need a Rx is booked out for days, like wtf? Luckily for me I work in healthcare and will reach out to a person or two today to get an inside track to a test but IMO it's completely unacceptable that a person can't get quick easy access to a Covid test if they have symptoms.
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08-27-2021, 03:36 AM #4266
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08-27-2021, 03:39 AM #4267
Not that I know of but I'll figure out what my avenues are today. I was hoping to get access to a rapid test as I have a busy weekend that I would like to keep if I get a negative test result.
Edit:
Looks like that would be an option unless they are all sold out. Accuracy is questionable and I don't want to pay for something my insurance will cover if I can get in a testing site though, lol.Last edited by mgftp; 08-27-2021 at 04:08 AM.
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08-27-2021, 05:06 AM #4268
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08-27-2021, 06:11 AM #4269
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08-27-2021, 06:31 AM #4270Air Force Veteran 1976 - 1999 - Cannabis Enthusiast since the 1960's
Retired at 40 Crew - Social distancing expert - Living the Dream
I use the gender neutral pronouns "Fukker/Fukkers" a lot.
****** I don't always agree with the memes I post ******
I tell it like it is, if you want smoke blown up your ass or something sugar coated. I suggest you get a Hooker and a powdered donut.
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08-27-2021, 09:34 AM #4271
People who recovered from a bout of Covid-19 during one of the earlier waves of the pandemic appear to have a lower risk of contracting the delta variant than those who got two doses of the vaccine from Pfizer.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ytV9rkkUBRlM-w
Wait. You mean natural immunity works????
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08-27-2021, 10:48 AM #4272
Hard to say, as I'm not sure what word is censored...
I've personally had several of my staff test positive on a rapid and negative on PCR (places were doing both simultaneously here), but that was a while ago and I believe changes were made since. Good luck, you've been vaxxed so once you get infected and achieve that superior natural immunity you'll be GTG
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08-27-2021, 11:12 AM #4273
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08-27-2021, 11:18 AM #4274
Rapid tests are not reliable, esp if you do not have most of the symptoms. My daughter got the rapid and it came back negative. She finally took a molecular test a week later, after she was already recovering, and it came back positive.
Do the molecular. It only takes a day.Forever alone? Attraction and keeping the girl chasing you - http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=131498033
You will never know your limits, unless you push yourself past the imaginary lines you have drawn in the sand.
Knee Dragger - '06 GSX-R750
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08-27-2021, 11:25 AM #4275
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08-27-2021, 11:30 AM #4276
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08-27-2021, 11:45 AM #4277
Did you read the actual analysis linked in this article? Because that is not what you think it says
Reports of waning vaccine-induced immunity against COVID-19 have begun to surface. With that, the comparable long-term protection conferred by previous infection with SARS-CoV-2 remains unclear
Individuals who were previously infected with SARS-CoV-2 seem to gain additional protection from a subsequent single-dose vaccine regimen. Though this finding corresponds to previous reports24,25, we could not demonstrate significance in our cohort
The advantageous protection afforded by natural immunity that this analysis demonstrates could be explained by the more extensive immune response to the SARS-CoV-2 proteins than that generated by the anti-spike protein immune activation conferred by the vaccine26,27. However, as a correlate of protection is yet to be proven1,28, including the role of B-Cell29 and T-cell immunity30,31, this remains a hypothesis
limitations (most important IMHO)
Our study has several limitations. First, as the Delta variant was the dominant strain in Israel during the outcome period, the decreased long-term protection of the vaccine compared to that afforded by previous infection cannot be ascertained against other strains
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08-27-2021, 11:46 AM #4278
You mean like those people in death camps set up by the Governor of NY?? (Oops, I mean nursing homes...)
Look, I'm not minimizing the many, many deaths. They were/are ALL unfortunate.
However, in the rush to create and establish vaccine mandates, these people with SUPERIOR immunity to the vaccinated are being ignored/minimized. When, in reality, they are LESS LIKELY to get sick and SPREAD covid than the vaccinated.
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08-27-2021, 11:49 AM #4279
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08-27-2021, 11:56 AM #4280
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08-27-2021, 11:59 AM #4281
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08-27-2021, 12:01 PM #4282Air Force Veteran 1976 - 1999 - Cannabis Enthusiast since the 1960's
Retired at 40 Crew - Social distancing expert - Living the Dream
I use the gender neutral pronouns "Fukker/Fukkers" a lot.
****** I don't always agree with the memes I post ******
I tell it like it is, if you want smoke blown up your ass or something sugar coated. I suggest you get a Hooker and a powdered donut.
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08-27-2021, 12:02 PM #4283Air Force Veteran 1976 - 1999 - Cannabis Enthusiast since the 1960's
Retired at 40 Crew - Social distancing expert - Living the Dream
I use the gender neutral pronouns "Fukker/Fukkers" a lot.
****** I don't always agree with the memes I post ******
I tell it like it is, if you want smoke blown up your ass or something sugar coated. I suggest you get a Hooker and a powdered donut.
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08-27-2021, 12:04 PM #4284
Ok, so from the logistics point of view - how do you establish this superiority? How are we supposed to (in the middle of global pandemic) separate these superior people and have separate mandates for them? What agency would be doing that? We can't even ask people to put their god damn masks in Walmart lol.
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08-27-2021, 12:28 PM #4285
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08-27-2021, 12:29 PM #4286
Certainly more unvaccinated killed by the Rona than killed by adverse reactions to the vaccines (13k or so?). That is the cost of playing the game though . Really sucks for the people who got vaccinated and still died from COVID.
I was just drafting an email earlier in an effort to increase compliance with our internal protocols. It's tricky to find the right tone given that half the people don't care at all and the other half are scared for their lives.
When you are here, please wear your fuken mask and stay away from each other, no matter what you think about covid - thanks!Last edited by Plateauplower; 08-27-2021 at 12:37 PM.
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08-27-2021, 12:37 PM #4287
Show me where I said something should be done, you are going off on a tangent about the logistic and I could care less.
I simply stated that what CommitmentRulz wrote in quote that I provided was some "Cold Hard Facts" and they were... Even Stevie Wonder can see that.
If you want to deflect from the fact that CommitmentRulz had a solid point in the quote I provided, have at it, fill your boots, I have no dog i that fight..Air Force Veteran 1976 - 1999 - Cannabis Enthusiast since the 1960's
Retired at 40 Crew - Social distancing expert - Living the Dream
I use the gender neutral pronouns "Fukker/Fukkers" a lot.
****** I don't always agree with the memes I post ******
I tell it like it is, if you want smoke blown up your ass or something sugar coated. I suggest you get a Hooker and a powdered donut.
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08-27-2021, 12:48 PM #4288
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08-27-2021, 12:50 PM #4289
It has nothing to do with logistics, unless we all get a vacation or something? For identification, neon green t-shirts that say "I survived COVID" would work, or crowns like the burger king guy, but we would have to control those better than they have the vaccination cards, don't want anyone frauding their post infection immunity status (although there are many millions who have had it and never even knew). That said, everything still looks pretty solid so far on the post infection immunity front, but that could always change too with a significant mutation. That will be incredibly important because breakthrough infections in vaccinated people will generate a natural immune response with a lower risk of a bad outcome.
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08-27-2021, 12:55 PM #4290Air Force Veteran 1976 - 1999 - Cannabis Enthusiast since the 1960's
Retired at 40 Crew - Social distancing expert - Living the Dream
I use the gender neutral pronouns "Fukker/Fukkers" a lot.
****** I don't always agree with the memes I post ******
I tell it like it is, if you want smoke blown up your ass or something sugar coated. I suggest you get a Hooker and a powdered donut.
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