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  1. #4591
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    Originally Posted by Jtbny View Post
    Conspiracy time.



    Right? Vaccines are free and effective yet here we are draped in controversy. It's like people don't want a cure or help fighting the the virus they want unproven drugs pushed by far right nut jobs like Alex fukn Jones. We're reaching a whole new level of effective propaganda.

    Ivermectin is effective - for what it was designed to do. But according to the drug maker they have seen no sign of efficacy for C19.



    It's one thing to be open minded. Its a far different thing to ignore the data and say you're remaining open minded because you want to believe or because you've drawn a line in the sand and refuse to cross it.
    On spread.
    It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.

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    Originally Posted by JustTheDad View Post
    I think I gave the direct link to that review in one of my posts. It's important to look at the actual studies they reviewed, and to look at the weight they gave to each one. They had given the largest study about 15% weight, but after it was reviewed there were huge issues found with the data. Some of the subjects were dead before they were on the study, parts of the study text was plagiarized, and it appears to have been manipulated. Other studies they felt were important had far less than 100 subjects and the methods were questionable. There's also a lot of profit for the people publishing positive studies in some of the locations, and there's variability in the actual products used. In many cases it's not just Ivermectin. The guy in charge of that one is doing his best, but you have to work with what's available and I don't think the quality of the studies is very good. There's another doc in the UK who also thinks it works and her company tries to find the data for people to review. Pretty sure she's an obstetrician. I wasn't impressed with the rigor of the data she was referencing either, but the reality is, if she has no good data, she has to sell her ability to find bad data, and whether you want to believe it's accurate despite the methods and warning signs is up to you.

    I haven't seen anything that would convince me to take it unless I was someplace where the water wasn't great or strongyloides or other parasites was a risk. Some of the benefit you see in the studies I'd question were done in more severely ill populations is in countries where putting someone on high dose steroids can have other significant risks. The jury is out, but the best controlled studies I've seen have not shown any benefit unless you look at mice or hamsters, and some of those used different viruses. The efficacy is MUCH lower than that of any of the vaccines, even in the study that appears to have manipulated data, so you do your research and you make your choices.
    You might like Carlos Chaccour. I found this a little while ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JuzHG0rpOrc This is out of date now, but he seems like one of the more reasonable people in the pro Ivermectin camp. I think he did the hamster study I read when trying to find information. Maybe you can find something more up to date than this and see what he thinks now.
    Solid post
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  3. #4593
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    Originally Posted by JustTheDad View Post
    I think I gave the direct link to that review in one of my posts. It's important to look at the actual studies they reviewed, and to look at the weight they gave to each one. They had given the largest study about 15% weight, but after it was reviewed there were huge issues found with the data. Some of the subjects were dead before they were on the study, parts of the study text was plagiarized, and it appears to have been manipulated. Other studies they felt were important had far less than 100 subjects and the methods were questionable. There's also a lot of profit for the people publishing positive studies in some of the locations, and there's variability in the actual products used. In many cases it's not just Ivermectin. The guy in charge of that one is doing his best, but you have to work with what's available and I don't think the quality of the studies is very good. There's another doc in the UK who also thinks it works and her company tries to find the data for people to review. Pretty sure she's an obstetrician. I wasn't impressed with the rigor of the data she was referencing either, but the reality is, if she has no good data, she has to sell her ability to find bad data, and whether you want to believe it's accurate despite the methods and warning signs is up to you.

    I haven't seen anything that would convince me to take it unless I was someplace where the water wasn't great or strongyloides or other parasites was a risk. Some of the benefit you see in the studies I'd question were done in more severely ill populations is in countries where putting someone on high dose steroids can have other significant risks. The jury is out, but the best controlled studies I've seen have not shown any benefit unless you look at mice or hamsters, and some of those used different viruses. The efficacy is MUCH lower than that of any of the vaccines, even in the study that appears to have manipulated data, so you do your research and you make your choices.
    You might like Carlos Chaccour. I found this a little while ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JuzHG0rpOrc This is out of date now, but he seems like one of the more reasonable people in the pro Ivermectin camp. I think he did the hamster study I read when trying to find information. Maybe you can find something more up to date than this and see what he thinks now.
    Thanks for the info.

    Originally Posted by Jtbny View Post
    Conspiracy time.



    Right? Vaccines are free and effective yet here we are draped in controversy. It's like people don't want a cure or help fighting the the virus they want unproven drugs pushed by far right nut jobs like Alex fukn Jones. We're reaching a whole new level of effective propaganda.

    Ivermectin is effective - for what it was designed to do. But according to the drug maker they have seen no sign of efficacy for C19.



    It's one thing to be open minded. Its a far different thing to ignore the data and say you're remaining open minded because you want to believe or because you've drawn a line in the sand and refuse to cross it.
    The vaccines aren't free, nothing is. And they're showing to be less effective as time goes on. I'm remaining open minded because I've heard from several people that the studies aren't so good, yet I know doctors prescribing it. If it's safe to take, then why not try it. It's safer than the vaccines.
    Last edited by _zman; 09-10-2021 at 07:42 AM.
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  4. #4594
    Registered Alpha mgftp's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by JustTheDad View Post
    I think I gave the direct link to that review in one of my posts. It's important to look at the actual studies they reviewed, and to look at the weight they gave to each one. They had given the largest study about 15% weight, but after it was reviewed there were huge issues found with the data. Some of the subjects were dead before they were on the study, parts of the study text was plagiarized, and it appears to have been manipulated. Other studies they felt were important had far less than 100 subjects and the methods were questionable. There's also a lot of profit for the people publishing positive studies in some of the locations, and there's variability in the actual products used. In many cases it's not just Ivermectin. The guy in charge of that one is doing his best, but you have to work with what's available and I don't think the quality of the studies is very good. There's another doc in the UK who also thinks it works and her company tries to find the data for people to review. Pretty sure she's an obstetrician. I wasn't impressed with the rigor of the data she was referencing either, but the reality is, if she has no good data, she has to sell her ability to find bad data, and whether you want to believe it's accurate despite the methods and warning signs is up to you.

    I haven't seen anything that would convince me to take it unless I was someplace where the water wasn't great or strongyloides or other parasites was a risk. Some of the benefit you see in the studies I'd question were done in more severely ill populations is in countries where putting someone on high dose steroids can have other significant risks. The jury is out, but the best controlled studies I've seen have not shown any benefit unless you look at mice or hamsters, and some of those used different viruses. The efficacy is MUCH lower than that of any of the vaccines, even in the study that appears to have manipulated data, so you do your research and you make your choices.
    You might like Carlos Chaccour. I found this a little while ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JuzHG0rpOrc This is out of date now, but he seems like one of the more reasonable people in the pro Ivermectin camp. I think he did the hamster study I read when trying to find information. Maybe you can find something more up to date than this and see what he thinks now.
    The problem is we have this group of people who are anti-vax who want something like ivermectin to be an answer. And those people aren't as educated or in some cases as intelligent as someone like yourself. They see a link or an infographic supporting what they want to be truth and it starts spreading between these like-minded people. It's sad but it's misinformation being fed to the people who are must vulnerable to misinformation by the people who are most vulnerable to misinformation.
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  5. #4595
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    Originally Posted by mgftp View Post
    The problem is we have this group of people who are anti-vax who want something like ivermectin to be an answer.
    anything that gets you over the virus is the answer. logic of peace.
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  6. #4596
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    Originally Posted by mgftp View Post
    The problem is we have this group of people who are anti-vax who want something like ivermectin to be an answer. And those people aren't as educated or in some cases as intelligent as someone like yourself. They see a link or an infographic supporting what they want to be truth and it starts spreading between these like-minded people. It's sad but it's misinformation being fed to the people who are must vulnerable to misinformation by the people who are most vulnerable to misinformation.
    I'm sure there's a lot of validity to that, but doesn't it seems like we have a lot more people who are anti-covid vaccines than who are anti-vaccines in general.

    I'm not going to say that education doesn't have a big impact, but it shouldn't require an MD plus a bunch of research and data review experience to sort the wheat from the chaff. Right now, it kind of feels like it does because even I have to search and read very carefully.

    Also, I'd love it if Ivermectin could be part of the solution to bad outcomes from COVID. I was hoping hydroxychloroquine would be too, although I had even more skepticism about that one panning out.
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  7. #4597
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    Originally Posted by z4v4 View Post
    No need to be salty when someone points out the obvious.
    Feel free to be Captain Obvious, but don't get salty if people don't find your obvious insights particularly enlightening.
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    Originally Posted by JustTheDad View Post
    I'm sure there's a lot of validity to that, but doesn't it seems like we have a lot more people who are anti-covid vaccines than who are anti-vaccines in general.

    I'm not going to say that education doesn't have a big impact, but it shouldn't require an MD plus a bunch of research and data review experience to sort the wheat from the chaff. Right now, it kind of feels like it does because even I have to search and read very carefully.

    Also, I'd love it if Ivermectin could be part of the solution to bad outcomes from COVID. I was hoping hydroxychloroquine would be too, although I had even more skepticism about that one panning out.
    It is a bad situation because some of these things can be pretty convincing, and on top of that I think many people that want to believe something aren't putting in the effort to question if what they want to believe is valid.
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  10. #4600
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    Originally Posted by mgftp View Post
    The problem is we have this group of people who are anti-vax who want something like ivermectin to be an answer. And those people aren't as educated or in some cases as intelligent as someone like yourself. They see a link or an infographic supporting what they want to be truth and it starts spreading between these like-minded people. It's sad but it's misinformation being fed to the people who are must vulnerable to misinformation by the people who are most vulnerable to misinformation.


    80% have at least some college. 24% are doctors. These people are not stupid.

    Such a lib thing to say. "vulnerable to misinformation." When you don't even do 1/3 of the research they do.

    **** you and your superiority complex.
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    Originally Posted by pondus_levo View Post


    80% have at least some college. 24% are doctors. These people are not stupid.

    Such a lib thing to say. "vulnerable to misinformation." When you don't even do 1/3 of the research they do.
    "I wear a mask out of respect to other people"
    also
    "You are all morons"

    I guess "respect" means something different to a lib.
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    Originally Posted by sy2502 View Post
    "I wear a mask out of respect to other people"
    also
    "You are all morons"

    I guess "respect" means something different to a lib.
    It just baffles me that you have 45 million survivors saying it's nothing if are healthy, but they only listen to a handful of old fat people that say "I wish I took the vaccine!"
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    Originally Posted by JustTheDad View Post
    I'm sure there's a lot of validity to that, but doesn't it seems like we have a lot more people who are anti-covid vaccines than who are anti-vaccines in general.

    I'm not going to say that education doesn't have a big impact, but it shouldn't require an MD plus a bunch of research and data review experience to sort the wheat from the chaff. Right now, it kind of feels like it does because even I have to search and read very carefully.

    Also, I'd love it if Ivermectin could be part of the solution to bad outcomes from COVID. I was hoping hydroxychloroquine would be too, although I had even more skepticism about that one panning out.
    It is all tribal at this point as well as political.
    I deconstructed the original study in the r and p with 6 parts and quotes, only to get zero replies.
    Basically,the latin doctors made it all up, zero money, the ivermectin patients were busy covid hospital workers, and the hospital had no record of the study. There was much more but those were 3 important points, only to get zero replies.

    The audience there is passionate and vocal but I guess check mate is check mate.
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    Originally Posted by pondus_levo View Post


    80% have at least some college. 24% are doctors. These people are not stupid.

    Such a lib thing to say. "vulnerable to misinformation." When you don't even do 1/3 of the research they do.

    **** you and your superiority complex.
    How much research have you done regarding the data in the infographic? I mean you must know there are infographics out there that show the exact opposite as well. I guess you have done a lot of work making sure this data is the real deal.
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    Originally Posted by mgftp View Post
    How much research have you done regarding the data in the infographic? I mean you must know there are infographics out there that show the exact opposite as well. I guess you have done a lot of work making sure this data is the real deal.
    Yes. I did.

    Author names and affiliations:
    4 Wendy C King, PhD, Associate Professor, Department of Epidemiology, Graduate School of
    5 Public Health University of Pittsburgh, Pittsburgh, PA, kingw@edc.pitt.edu
    6 Max Rubinstein, MPP, PhD Student, Heinz College and Department of Statistics & Data Science,
    7 Carnegie Mellon University, Pittsburgh, PA, mrubinst@andrew.cmu.edu
    8 Alex Reinhart, PhD, Assistant Teaching Professor, Department of Statistics & Data Science,
    9 Carnegie Mellon University, Pittsburgh, PA, areinhar@stat.cmu.edu
    10 Robin J. Mejia, MPH, PhD, Special Faculty, Department of Statistics & Data Science, Carnegie
    11 Mellon University, Pittsburgh, PA, rmejia@andrew.cmu.edu


    Those with professional degrees (e.g., JD, MBA) and PhDs were theonly education groups without a decrease in hesitancy, and by May, those with PhDs had the highest hesitancy
    https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1...795v1.full.pdf

    Like I said, **** you and your superiority complex.
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    Then load up, 100 times the normal dose that are used in mice...have at it.
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    Originally Posted by mgftp View Post
    What exactly was that work you did?

    Listing authors and their accreditation means this data set is more valid than data sets that show something else? This is my point exactly, people are by nature drawn to what they want to believe. It's not a personal attack on you. It's human nature,
    Pondo is more susceptible to confirmation bias than most, and like sy, gets salty when you point stuff out.
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    Originally Posted by pondus_levo View Post
    Yes. I did.



    https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1...795v1.full.pdf

    Like I said, **** you and your superiority complex.
    What exactly was that work you did?

    Listing authors and their accreditation means this data set is more valid than data sets that show something else? This is my point exactly, people are by nature drawn to what they want to believe. It's not a personal attack on you.

    Originally Posted by z4v4 View Post
    Pondo is more susceptible to confirmation bias than most, and like sy, gets salty when you point stuff out.
    People get passionate about the subject. I get it. Perhaps I should have chosen my words to be less offensive to others reading. But my post was pointing out to a doctor (JustDad) that a lot of misinformation spread is happening within a set of people which may be less educated and intelligent than him, or the average doctor. I am not a doctor, I am also less educated on medicine and probably less intelligent.
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    Originally Posted by mgftp View Post
    How much research have you done regarding the data in the infographic? I mean you must know there are infographics out there that show the exact opposite as well. I guess you have done a lot of work making sure this data is the real deal.
    This statement is 100% true. I spent 10 minutes looking around and I'm seeing the opposite of this graphic. I have no dog in the fight; just an observation. I couldn't give two shiits how much education someone has because I have a Master's Degree and it doesn't make you smarter; just more educated. More educated does not equal smarter for the most part.
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    Originally Posted by bustasinclair View Post
    This statement is 100% true. I spent 10 minutes looking around and I'm seeing the opposite of this graphic. I have no dog in the fight; just an observation. I couldn't give two shiits how much education someone has because I have a Master's Degree and it doesn't make you smarter; just more educated. More educated does not equal smarter for the most part.
    WTF do you mean that shows the opposite? Do you even understand what the infographic that I posted represents?

    There is NOTHING out there that disputes this study.
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    Originally Posted by pondus_levo View Post
    WTF do you mean that shows the opposite? Do you even understand what the infographic that I posted represents?
    I do - shows that 76% of PhDs aren't hesitant. But good argument tough guy.
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    Originally Posted by pondus_levo View Post
    WTF do you mean that shows the opposite? Do you even understand what the infographic that I posted represents?
    Calm down, mic dropper, geezus. You sound like you need a nap and a binky. I'm seeing the higher the education level, the lower the vaccine hesitancy. But like mgftp says, you can find support for just about anything you want to believe on the internet.
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    Originally Posted by Jtbny View Post
    I do - shows that 76% of PhDs aren't hesitant. But good argument tough guy.

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    Originally Posted by Jtbny View Post
    I do - shows that 76% of PhDs aren't hesitant. But good argument tough guy.
    Originally Posted by bustasinclair View Post
    Calm down, mic dropper, geezus. You sound like you need a nap and a binky. I'm seeing the higher the education level, the lower the vaccine hesitancy. But like mgftp says, you can find support for just about anything you want to believe on the internet.
    Originally Posted by mtpockets View Post


    It shows that 1/4 of all people that are hesitant are doctors. Not 1/4 of doctors.

    Doctors only make up .25% of our population.

    Since you guys are so intelligent, do the math.

    It amazes me how easy it is to hand you guys your asses. And you think you are the smart ones. LOL

    I'm actually getting bored of owning you guys with facts vs your feelings. Have fun in your circle jerk.
    Last edited by pondus_levo; 09-10-2021 at 11:18 AM.
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    I took some Ivermectin yesterday.














































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    Those last comments speak to a person who is only interested in slam dunking, owning,handing asses, and showing how smart we are not.

    That is today's internet for a certain group now.

    Ownage....I showed you, I am smarter than you are, I got graphics.

    Gtfoh with that immature fkn bs nonsense.
    Good riddance!
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    Originally Posted by pondus_levo View Post


    It shows that 1/4 of all people that are hesitant are doctors. Not 1/4 of doctors.

    Doctors only make up .25% of our population.

    Since you guys are so intelligent, do the math.

    It amazes me how easy it is to hand you guys your asses. And you think you are the smart ones. LOL

    I'm actually getting bored of owning you guys with facts vs your feelings. Have fun in your circle jerk.
    Quoting this for yet another example of an anti vax idiot not being able to interpret a table.
    "Seen in the light of evolution, biology is, perhaps, intellectually the most satisfying and inspiring science. Without that light it becomes a pile of sundry facts -- some of them interesting or curious but making no meaningful picture as a whole."
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    Originally Posted by mgftp View Post
    The problem is we have this group of people who are anti-vax who want something like ivermectin to be an answer. And those people aren't as educated or in some cases as intelligent as someone like yourself. They see a link or an infographic supporting what they want to be truth and it starts spreading between these like-minded people. It's sad but it's misinformation being fed to the people who are must vulnerable to misinformation by the people who are most vulnerable to misinformation.
    Originally Posted by mgftp View Post
    It is a bad situation because some of these things can be pretty convincing, and on top of that I think many people that want to believe something aren't putting in the effort to question if what they want to believe is valid.
    And what I said plays out

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    Originally Posted by x-trainer ben View Post
    Those last comments speak to a person who is only interested in slam dunking, owning,handing asses, and showing how smart we are not.

    That is today's internet for a certain group now.

    Ownage....I showed you, I am smarter than you are, I got graphics.

    Gtfoh with that immature fkn bs nonsense.
    Good riddance!
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