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  1. #4561
    In search of V-Taper ectoBgone's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by _zman View Post
    I know several people that were around people that had it as well when they were not vaxxed. They even shared a a particular smoking device, yet never got it. And they aren't even the healthy type of people, just mid 40s.
    Originally Posted by x-trainer ben View Post
    How do you explain that, super healthy and fit with zero underlying conditions, or just dumb luck?
    My personal hypothesis is that this indeed originated from a lab as current evidence strongly suggests and we likely have something that "leapt forward" from an evolutionary standpoint faster, or differently, than it otherwise would and this could account for the rather wider and somewhat inexplicable variation we see when comparing among like individuals. From what I understand there are genetically driven propensities towards more severe reactions outside of the known risk factors. If the virus leapt forward in an unnatural way, our own defenses could not have self-selected for a stronger reaction against it proportionally over time and some people luck out more than others with the stronger genetic response. Just a thought. *shrug*
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  2. #4562
    Registered User sy2502's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by z4v4 View Post
    Once the company you worked for 15 years decided to mandate vaccinations, this motivated you to look for other companies to work for within your field. You reported that the wages you were offered were much higher than the company you worked for was paying you. I think that is great. Good for you. Just don't let something like a pandemic every 20 years or so and smiling bosses keep you a sucker - always know your marketplace value and always be willing to exercise it.
    I am perfectly aware of my marketplace value and I have been getting recruiter calls for the past 15 years every couple of months thank you for talking about something you know nothing about, I'll make sure to get my career advices from someone who does.
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  3. #4563
    Registered User x-trainer ben's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by JustTheDad View Post
    If someone is young, doesn't feel perfectly comfortable with the vaccines' safety, doesn't buy into the protecting others by getting this vaccine mindset, and/or thinks they've already been exposed, they're not going to get the vaccine.

    You know, that's the second phrase I didn't catch the meaning of. To me, dumb luck indicated it was unexpected while David doesn't seem like he ever expected to get sick.
    I also didn't (and still don't) get "my soul is peppered", which someone posted earlier and said was intentional. Maybe it was intentional humor or a movie reference. Do you know?
    To clarify and simplify i could have said wow you are lucky.
    Peppered is a term I just don't use.
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  4. #4564
    Registered User x-trainer ben's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ectoBgone View Post
    My personal hypothesis is that this indeed originated from a lab as current evidence strongly suggests and we likely have something that "leapt forward" from an evolutionary standpoint faster, or differently, than it otherwise would and this could account for the rather wider and somewhat inexplicable variation we see when comparing among like individuals. From what I understand there are genetically driven propensities towards more severe reactions outside of the known risk factors. If the virus leapt forward in an unnatural way, our own defenses could not have self-selected for a stronger reaction against it proportionally over time and some people luck out more than others with the stronger genetic response. Just a thought. *shrug*
    Great ideas , thanks for taking the time.
    My brain tries to see patterns and trends, and this thing is all over the map given what i have read over the last 18 months.

    I spoke to a good friend yesterday who I have not spoken to for 2 years and the different types of people that she knew that got it, died, and were severely impacted from COVID-19 varied widely. It isnt what you assume sometimes.
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  5. #4565
    mic dropper pondus_levo's Avatar
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    Just want to remind you boyos that its day 617 of the pandemic and the vaccine does not work.
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  6. #4566
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    Originally Posted by pondus_levo View Post
    Just want to remind you boyos that its day 617 of the pandemic and the vaccine does not work.
    Case count low here due to high compliance to health authority directives, I think 76% of the population in our health catchment area are fully vaccinated.

    It is rising though..but mostly among those who are not vaccinated..(and probably ignore the other directives) These are the ones that are showing up in the hospitals from what I am hearing.

    Agree on one thing, its not going away anytime soon, trick is to not overload the health system so some unfortunate person can get necessary unrelated surgery, or cancer treatment.

    Stay safe
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  7. #4567
    Registered User JustTheDad's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by x-trainer ben View Post
    To clarify and simplify i could have said wow you are lucky.
    Peppered is a term I just don't use.
    I wasn't criticizing Ben. I just replied because the word "Dumb" gets used a lot when we talk about other peoples choices. I understand you weren't trying to imply the decision was dumb.

    Peppered seems like a good term for some new shooters' targets at the range. They do look like someone randomly sprinkled pepper on a piece of paper.
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  8. #4568
    Registered Alpha mgftp's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by pondus_levo View Post
    Just want to remind you boyos that its day 617 of the pandemic and the vaccine does not work.
    Now that's a statement
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  9. #4569
    mic dropper pondus_levo's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by mgftp View Post
    Now that's a statement
    Obviously I was exaggerating, but the vaccine is not working as intended. The focus should be therapeutics.
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  10. #4570
    In Witness Protection mtpockets's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by pondus_levo View Post
    Just want to remind you boyos that its day 617 of the pandemic and the vaccine does not work.


    Thanks for the enlightenment Pocahontas, maybe you shouldn't waste time on us boyos and head right on over to the medical/science community and share your expertise with them.
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  11. #4571
    SillieBazzillie Alt #z4 z4v4's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by sy2502 View Post
    I am perfectly aware of my marketplace value and I have been getting recruiter calls for the past 15 years every couple of months thank you for talking about something you know nothing about, I'll make sure to get my career advices from someone who does.
    No need to be salty when someone points out the obvious.
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  12. #4572
    Registered User mdonnelly80's Avatar
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    At the end of the day, I don't care if someone is vaccinated or not. I also don't care if they're going to choose to wear a mask or not. Just as long as they leave me the hell alone.
    "The Iron never lies to you. You can walk outside and listen to all kinds of talk, get told that you’re a god or a total bastard. The Iron will always kick you the real deal. The Iron is the great reference point, the all-knowing perspective giver. Always there like a beacon in the pitch black. I have found the Iron to be my greatest friend. It never freaks out on me, never runs. Friends may come and go. But two hundred pounds is always two hundred pounds." -Henry Rollins
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  13. #4573
    In Witness Protection mtpockets's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by mdonnelly80 View Post
    At the end of the day, I don't care if someone is vaccinated or not. I also don't care if they're going to choose to wear a mask or not. Just as long as they leave me the hell alone.

    Yep
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  14. #4574
    mic dropper pondus_levo's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by mtpockets View Post
    Thanks for the enlightenment Pocahontas, maybe you shouldn't waste time on us boyos and head right on over to the medical/science community and share your expertise with them.
    The medical and science community you speak of cherry picks their data and then silences the real scientists and doctors that disagree with them.

    Just sayin'.
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  15. #4575
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    Originally Posted by sy2502 View Post
    I don't have the faintest idea, but as I said, I am not just going to assume it was all about good solid data. Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't.

    All I can tell you is that I know several people who work in medical startups, some have tried to get their product FDA approved for TEN YEARS, with the FDA sending their documentation back for any possible trivial reason they could find, so do I find the Pfizer approval suspicious? You bet your azz I do. And let's face it the medical establishment (and by that I mean FDA, CDC, NIH, WHO, etc) has done nothing to win my trust in the last year and a half.
    I work and have worked directly with the FDA on various therapy launches, NDAs, trial designs in the inflammation space. I also regularly attend the FDA review panels. Believe what you want, but the objectivity and thoroughness in their process is unparalleled. We have gotten refuse-to-file letters from them because we didn't report plasma levels of a completely inert metabolite. They are also generally extremely conservative regarding the therapeutic window (adequate efficacy with good safety) of therapies under review.
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  16. #4576
    Trancebrah _zman's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Cantplankwell View Post
    Case count low here due to high compliance to health authority directives, I think 76% of the population in our health catchment area are fully vaccinated.

    It is rising though..but mostly among those who are not vaccinated..(and probably ignore the other directives) These are the ones that are showing up in the hospitals from what I am hearing.

    Agree on one thing, its not going away anytime soon, trick is to not overload the health system so some unfortunate person can get necessary unrelated surgery, or cancer treatment.

    Stay safe
    If healthcare systems truly cared about our health, then they should promote a healthy lifestyle, especially regarding covid, but they don't. Then we wouldn't be at capacity all the time for obesity, diabetes, heart disease and cancer. But they're a for-profit business just like any other corporation. Even the non-profits are profit driven.

    Originally Posted by pondus_levo View Post
    The medical and science community you speak of cherry picks their data and then silences the real scientists and doctors that disagree with them.

    Just sayin'.
    Agreed. Our lead epidemiologist was asked a question regarding Ivermectin in a family forum and he stated it simply doesn't work. So either he's mis-read, not up to date on information or is cherry picking data.

    Today, I did learn we have a very close relationship with the government regarding various topics including boosters. Instead of doing our own research like we should and are capable of doing, we are waiting on what the government wants to do and wait for their guidance. Which was my suspicion all along. So likely they have input on mandates as well and how everything has been handled so far including forced vaccinations.
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    United Airlines to put workers excused from COVID-19 shot for religious reasons on unpaid leave



    United Airlines is giving five more weeks to employees who sought, but were denied, a company exemption from getting vaccinated against COVID-19 on religious or medical grounds. After that, they could be fired or put on unpaid leave.

    The airline's 67,000 U.S.-based workers face a September 27 deadline to get their shots. United says more than half its employees who weren't vaccinated last month have done so since the company announced that vaccine requirements.

    Requests for medical exemptions at United are judged by medical staffers including nurses, while requests for waivers based on religious beliefs are handled by personnel-office employees, according to the carrier.
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    Originally Posted by _zman View Post
    Agreed. Our lead epidemiologist was asked a question regarding Ivermectin in a family forum and he stated it simply doesn't work. So either he's mis-read, not up to date on information or is cherry picking data.
    Or he knows how to review a study. I can't find any well designed studies that showed in vivo efficacy. Just a couple that warranted more testing. The more recent studies that I find say it's useless. Nice hypothesis on how it could work, but no significant improvement when tested.

    The funny part is that anyone thinks there's a conspiracy to keep a cheap medication that works away from patients that could benefit from it.

    PS) I did look at several of the studies listed in this: https://journals.lww.com/americanthe...ing_the.4.aspx

    and at this:
    https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jam...rticle/2777389

    and a couple of others that looked promising, but you can't find their data yet and their status wasn't closed in clinical trials. It would be nice if those show some efficacy, but it's not looking promising. Kind of like hydroxychloroquine, but possibly a little bit safer.
    Last edited by JustTheDad; 09-09-2021 at 12:28 PM.
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    Originally Posted by JustTheDad View Post
    Or he knows how to review a study. I can't find any well designed studies that showed in vivo efficacy. Just a couple that warranted more testing. The more recent studies that I find say it's useless. Nice hypothesis on how it could work, but no significant improvement when tested.

    The funny part is that anyone thinks there's a conspiracy to keep a cheap medication that works away from patients that could benefit from it.

    PS) I did look at several of the studies listed in this: https://journals.lww.com/americanthe...ing_the.4.aspx

    and at this:
    https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jam...rticle/2777389

    and a couple of others that looked promising, but you can't find their data yet and their status wasn't closed in clinical trials. It would be nice if those show some efficacy, but it's not looking promising. Kind of like hydroxychloroquine, but possibly a little bit safer.
    Exactly. Dexamethasone is a cheap-ass generic that's part of COVID standard of care. The conspiracy argument is beyond retarded at this point.
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    Originally Posted by JustTheDad View Post
    I wasn't criticizing Ben. I just replied because the word "Dumb" gets used a lot when we talk about other peoples choices. I understand you weren't trying to imply the decision was dumb.

    Peppered seems like a good term for some new shooters' targets at the range. They do look like someone randomly sprinkled pepper on a piece of paper.
    I didn't take it as criticism,we are good.
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    Originally Posted by _zman View Post

    Agreed. Our lead epidemiologist was asked a question regarding Ivermectin in a family forum and he stated it simply doesn't work. So either he's mis-read, not up to date on information or is cherry picking data.
    Or maybe he's going off what the manufacture said with regards to its effectiveness against C19:

    https://www.merck.com/news/merck-sta...d-19-pandemic/

    Company scientists continue to carefully examine the findings of all available and emerging studies of ivermectin for the treatment of COVID-19 for evidence of efficacy and safety. It is important to note that, to-date, our analysis has identified:

    No scientific basis for a potential therapeutic effect against COVID-19 from pre-clinical studies;
    No meaningful evidence for clinical activity or clinical efficacy in patients with COVID-19 disease, and;
    A concerning lack of safety data in the majority of studies.
    We do not believe that the data available support the safety and efficacy of ivermectin beyond the doses and populations indicated in the regulatory agency-approved prescribing information.
    This was written back in Feb so maybe there has been some reliable studies done to show this is no longer true but I have yet to see them. It isn't FDA approved as a treatment for C19 which I thought was the excuse why many didn't want to get a vax.

    But Alex Jones says they work...
    Last edited by Jtbny; 09-09-2021 at 01:43 PM.
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    Ok this is getting a little extreme, yes she showed poor judgment...

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...FIRED-job.html
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    Originally Posted by x-trainer ben View Post
    Ok this is getting a little extreme, yes she showed poor judgment...

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...FIRED-job.html
    I was just imagining in my mind how this would have gone down if this woman was following Bodyhard and his wife around the grocery store with these antics.

    I'm not one to hit women for any reason except self defense, but I'm thinking if this lady did that crap to me and my family, I'd tell my SO to knock the shiit out of her.
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    Originally Posted by x-trainer ben View Post
    Ok this is getting a little extreme, yes she showed poor judgment...

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...FIRED-job.html

    She should have worn a mask
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    Originally Posted by z4v4 View Post
    No need to be salty when someone points out the obvious.
    When have you ever not been salty?
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    Originally Posted by pondus_levo View Post
    Just want to remind you boyos that its day 617 of the pandemic and the vaccine does not work.
    I would’ve said check your facts but man, a whole family I know who was vaccinated but the kids got covid.

    One of them is a medical doctor in a covid ICU unit (his daughter brought it home from school apparently)

    Regardless they all recovered and only this doc guy got sick the most.
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    Originally Posted by Jtbny View Post
    Or maybe he's going off what the manufacture said with regards to its effectiveness against C19:

    https://www.merck.com/news/merck-sta...d-19-pandemic/



    This was written back in Feb so maybe there has been some reliable studies done to show this is no longer true but I have yet to see them. It isn't FDA approved as a treatment for C19 which I thought was the excuse why many didn't want to get a vax.

    But Alex Jones says they work...
    I'm going off of what other doctors have told me. The ones that don't rely on government funding. They're saying Ivermectin is effective.

    I did a quick online search and this was my first result: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8088823/

    Idk how something cheap and effective is becoming a controversy. It's like people don't want a cure and want mandates and vaccines. I've never seen propaganda like this. We're reaching a whole new level of effective propaganda.

    If you don't think Ivermectin works, you can find articles saying that as well. I'll remain open minded.
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    Originally Posted by _zman View Post
    I'm going off of what other doctors have told me. The ones that don't rely on government funding. They're saying Ivermectin is effective.
    Conspiracy time.

    I did a quick online search and this was my first result: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8088823/

    Idk how something cheap and effective is becoming a controversy. It's like people don't want a cure and want mandates and vaccines. I've never seen propaganda like this. We're reaching a whole new level of effective propaganda.
    Right? Vaccines are free and effective yet here we are draped in controversy. It's like people don't want a cure or help fighting the the virus they want unproven drugs pushed by far right nut jobs like Alex fukn Jones. We're reaching a whole new level of effective propaganda.

    Ivermectin is effective - for what it was designed to do. But according to the drug maker they have seen no sign of efficacy for C19.

    If you don't think Ivermectin works, you can find articles saying that as well. I'll remain open minded.
    It's one thing to be open minded. Its a far different thing to ignore the data and say you're remaining open minded because you want to believe or because you've drawn a line in the sand and refuse to cross it.
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    Just for chits and giggles can any of you medical pros define what healthy is?
    Is it simply the absence of disease?
    I ask this because everyone is claiming they are young and healthy, but no one has an exact definition of healthy.
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    Originally Posted by _zman View Post
    I did a quick online search and this was my first result: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8088823/
    I think I gave the direct link to that review in one of my posts. It's important to look at the actual studies they reviewed, and to look at the weight they gave to each one. They had given the largest study about 15% weight, but after it was reviewed there were huge issues found with the data. Some of the subjects were dead before they were on the study, parts of the study text was plagiarized, and it appears to have been manipulated. Other studies they felt were important had far less than 100 subjects and the methods were questionable. There's also a lot of profit for the people publishing positive studies in some of the locations, and there's variability in the actual products used. In many cases it's not just Ivermectin. The guy in charge of that one is doing his best, but you have to work with what's available and I don't think the quality of the studies is very good. There's another doc in the UK who also thinks it works and her company tries to find the data for people to review. Pretty sure she's an obstetrician. I wasn't impressed with the rigor of the data she was referencing either, but the reality is, if she has no good data, she has to sell her ability to find bad data, and whether you want to believe it's accurate despite the methods and warning signs is up to you.

    I haven't seen anything that would convince me to take it unless I was someplace where the water wasn't great or strongyloides or other parasites was a risk. Some of the benefit you see in the studies I'd question were done in more severely ill populations is in countries where putting someone on high dose steroids can have other significant risks. The jury is out, but the best controlled studies I've seen have not shown any benefit unless you look at mice or hamsters, and some of those used different viruses. The efficacy is MUCH lower than that of any of the vaccines, even in the study that appears to have manipulated data, so you do your research and you make your choices.
    You might like Carlos Chaccour. I found this a little while ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JuzHG0rpOrc This is out of date now, but he seems like one of the more reasonable people in the pro Ivermectin camp. I think he did the hamster study I read when trying to find information. Maybe you can find something more up to date than this and see what he thinks now.
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