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  1. #4261
    Registered Alpha mgftp's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by NorwichGrad View Post
    LMAO @ 'FDA approval'

    all three letter gubmint agencies are the same. what makes you think FDA is an honorable organization?

    The CDC-FDA 'partnership' is a lot like the gangsta hood pimp and his hoez. The CDC is the pimp and it is telling the customers that his hoe (the FDA) aint got no AIDS.

    The only difference is that at least the gangsta pimp and his hoez are conducting bidnet voluntarily and they are not forcing anyone to take their product and service at gunpoint or threat of jail. youfollowwhatimsayin'?
    Seems legit

    Originally Posted by sy2502 View Post
    Somebody help me make sense of this please:
    In my county vaccination rate is 84%.
    They claim hospitals are overwhelmed by unvaccinated people.
    There are plenty of hospitals in the area and neighboring counties have similar vaccination rates so patients aren't coming from other counties.
    Hospitalizations are increasing.

    Somebody explain it to me please. I have this example in my head:

    I have 10 pairs of socks with holes in them (county population).
    I mend 8 pairs (vaccines).
    My mom stops by and mends another pair (non vaccinated who had covid and are now immune)
    How can I possibly claim my drawer is full of socks with holes?
    More importantly how can I claim the number of socks with holes in increasing, unless a)My socks with holes are fornicating and having baby socks with holes or b) Some of the mended socks got new holes (breakthrough cases).

    What am I doing wrong here?
    16% of a population is a large number of people and most hospital systems operate near capacity.
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  2. #4262
    Registered User Plateauplower's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Reliance012 View Post
    Yes they are. A multitude of studies have demonstrated that even against delta, effectiveness against severe disease is ~90% for the mRNA vaccines. That is highly effective, and that aspect has waned little. Post infection immunity is needed to get us to herd immunity — even if temporary — I agree. But even then reinfections occur. Previously infected individuals are less likely to be reinfected after a single vaccine dose.
    Is that your understanding of how vaccines are intended to work? You can still become infected and spread the pathogen, but have a lower risk of dying?

    Definition of Terms

    Vaccine: A product that stimulates a person’s immune system to produce immunity to a specific disease, protecting the person from that disease. Vaccines are usually administered through needle injections, but can also be administered by mouth or sprayed into the nose.

    Immunity: Protection from an infectious disease. If you are immune to a disease, you can be exposed to it without becoming infected.

    https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/imz-basics.htm

    Has the science changed? A vaccine that does not accomplish these definitions is a failure, or at best a prophylactic treatment.
    With your PHD in this subject matter, do you find it concerning that the number of "breakthrough cases" (vaccinated people contracting the disease, asymptomatically or otherwise), provides the pathogen an opportunity to further evade the effects of the vaccine induced immunity?

    Originally Posted by mgftp View Post
    Based upon the clinical trial designs, EUA, and recent FDA approval, the intent of the vaccine was to protect people from getting sick.
    See above.
    Last edited by Plateauplower; 08-26-2021 at 10:31 AM.
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    Originally Posted by mgftp View Post
    16% of a population is a large number of people and most hospital systems operate near capacity.
    Yes it is, but not all unvaccinated people have covid all at the same time, nor do they all need the hospital, and if they do they don't all need it at the same time. And I keep stressing that unvaccinated people who have covid develop immunity so it's not like they keep coming back to the hospital every week. So as the pool of possible covid patients decreases it doesn't make sense that hospitalizations should go up... UNLESS... they are breakthrough cases.
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    Originally Posted by NorwichGrad View Post
    John,

    I had to do a double triple take. hahaha..

    I was like ,"Dood. That sounds like something I would say." LMAO. Not laughing at you. In fact I agree with you 100000%. Just laughing at the fact that you are now deep in that same rabbit hole I found.

    jab versus unjab
    left versus right
    libs versus cons
    black versus white

    blahh. it's all noise.

    Because broz like you and me.. we will be the next 1%.

    We just have to stay healthy so we can at least use that wealth to serve mankind.
    Joel its maddening man. We have Democrats and Republicans doing it while trying their best to keep the little guy from entering the markets (pattern day trading anyone?) and doing everything they can to keep us fighting between each other. If more people followed the markets closely or gave a shti they'd see how blatant this crap really is.

    Did you put some "fuk the gov't" dust on that package you sent me?
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    i love the first one with Dave Chapell and will use that from now on for Paul and others.
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    Originally Posted by Plateauplower View Post
    Is that your understanding of how vaccines are intended to work? You can still become infected and spread the pathogen, but have a lower risk of dying?

    Definition of Terms

    Vaccine: A product that stimulates a person’s immune system to produce immunity to a specific disease, protecting the person from that disease. Vaccines are usually administered through needle injections, but can also be administered by mouth or sprayed into the nose.

    Immunity: Protection from an infectious disease. If you are immune to a disease, you can be exposed to it without becoming infected.

    https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/imz-basics.htm

    Has the science changed? A vaccine that does not accomplish these definitions is a failure, or at best a prophylactic treatment.
    With your PHD in this subject matter, do you find it concerning that the number of "breakthrough cases" (vaccinated people contracting the disease, asymptomatically or otherwise), provides the pathogen an opportunity to further evade the effects of the vaccine induced immunity?
    Plateauplower, that's kind of a straw man, isn't it? Is the flu vaccine not a vaccine even if there are different strains circulating?

    Very few vaccines are 100% effective, even when efficacy is measured against their original target strain. Since there's no defined efficacy requirement, you're obviously welcome to choose your own arbitrary number, but if you make it 100% then we've yet to produce an actual vaccine.

    And if the flu vaccine can reduce your chances of dying or having a serious illness from other strains, reduce your systemic viral load from other strains to decrease the risks of mutation, and possibly reduce the time you can spread the virus, is it not still useful?

    I never get the flu vaccine because I'm worried I'll die from the flu. I get it so I'm less likely to be out of work for days to weeks and so there's a reduced chance I'll spread it to others who could get sick from it.
    Yes, I still could get sick, transmit it to others, or even die, but if I have the time, I'll still get a flu shot to reduce the chances of one and two. I'm about 50% on getting my annual flu shot and I was 100% when I didn't work from home and could have shared the joys of influenza more easily.
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    here are some really good workouts that will help you to get better Abs.

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  9. #4269
    Registered Alpha mgftp's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by sy2502 View Post
    Yes it is, but not all unvaccinated people have covid all at the same time, nor do they all need the hospital, and if they do they don't all need it at the same time. And I keep stressing that unvaccinated people who have covid develop immunity so it's not like they keep coming back to the hospital every week. So as the pool of possible covid patients decreases it doesn't make sense that hospitalizations should go up... UNLESS... they are breakthrough cases.
    The numbers only really make sense for what you are saying if the population where you are is really low.

    Yes there are breakthrough cases, and yes people can get Covid more than once.

    Originally Posted by Plateauplower View Post
    Is that your understanding of how vaccines are intended to work? You can still become infected and spread the pathogen, but have a lower risk of dying?

    Definition of Terms

    Vaccine: A product that stimulates a person’s immune system to produce immunity to a specific disease, protecting the person from that disease. Vaccines are usually administered through needle injections, but can also be administered by mouth or sprayed into the nose.

    Immunity: Protection from an infectious disease. If you are immune to a disease, you can be exposed to it without becoming infected.

    https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/imz-basics.htm

    Has the science changed? A vaccine that does not accomplish these definitions is a failure, or at best a prophylactic treatment.
    With your PHD in this subject matter, do you find it concerning that the number of "breakthrough cases" (vaccinated people contracting the disease, asymptomatically or otherwise), provides the pathogen an opportunity to further evade the effects of the vaccine induced immunity?



    See above.
    See below

    Originally Posted by JustTheDad View Post
    Plateauplower, that's kind of a straw man, isn't it? Is the flu vaccine not a vaccine even if there are different strains circulating?

    Very few vaccines are 100% effective, even when efficacy is measured against their original target strain. Since there's no defined efficacy requirement, you're obviously welcome to choose your own arbitrary number, but if you make it 100% then we've yet to produce an actual vaccine.

    And if the flu vaccine can reduce your chances of dying or having a serious illness from other strains, reduce your systemic viral load from other strains to decrease the risks of mutation, and possibly reduce the time you can spread the virus, is it not still useful?

    I never get the flu vaccine because I'm worried I'll die from the flu. I get it so I'm less likely to be out of work for days to weeks and so there's a reduced chance I'll spread it to others who could get sick from it.
    Yes, I still could get sick, transmit it to others, or even die, but if I have the time, I'll still get a flu shot to reduce the chances of one and two. I'm about 50% on getting my annual flu shot and I was 100% when I didn't work from home and could have shared the joys of influenza more easily.
    Perfectly said, as always.
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  10. #4270
    Registered User NorwichGrad's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Jtbny View Post
    Joel its maddening man. We have Democrats and Republicans doing it while trying their best to keep the little guy from entering the markets (pattern day trading anyone?) and doing everything they can to keep us fighting between each other. If more people followed the markets closely or gave a shti they'd see how blatant this crap really is.

    Did you put some "fuk the gov't" dust on that package you sent me?
    LMAO. I actually laughed so hard rice came out of my nostrils.

    Here's another thing to consider. And I know you understand the significance. Saudi signed a military cooperation with Russia two days ago. Today another OPEC nation signed the same agreement. The petrodollar is officially dead.

    Focus on the wealth transfer you spoke of earlier. Everything else is noise. The signs of the death of the dollar as world reserve currency are so clear. We know what we gotta do. I wish many more did the same.
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  11. #4271
    Registered User Plateauplower's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by JustTheDad View Post
    Plateauplower, that's kind of a straw man, isn't it? Is the flu vaccine not a vaccine even if there are different strains circulating?

    Very few vaccines are 100% effective, even when efficacy is measured against their original target strain. Since there's no defined efficacy requirement, you're obviously welcome to choose your own arbitrary number, but if you make it 100% then we've yet to produce an actual vaccine.

    And if the flu vaccine can reduce your chances of dying or having a serious illness from other strains, reduce your systemic viral load from other strains to decrease the risks of mutation, and possibly reduce the time you can spread the virus, is it not still useful?

    I never get the flu vaccine because I'm worried I'll die from the flu. I get it so I'm less likely to be out of work for days to weeks and so there's a reduced chance I'll spread it to others who could get sick from it.
    Yes, I still could get sick, transmit it to others, or even die, but if I have the time, I'll still get a flu shot to reduce the chances of one and two. I'm about 50% on getting my annual flu shot and I was 100% when I didn't work from home and could have shared the joys of influenza more easily.
    Not a strawman, the definitions are from the CDC.

    The efficacy of the flu vaccine varies/ is typically low because the targeted strains are selected nearly a year in advance and if the guess at what strain will be circulating is wrong the vaccine has a low efficacy. There are a lot more flu strains / recombinants so the vaccine is different year to year. When the anticipated strains are guessed correctly, the efficacy of the flu vaccine is pretty high. I agree that no vaccine is 100%, its just not possible. However, the primary difference is the level of coercion from the government to take the vaccine. My issue is primarily with that. It is simply wrong to coerce people to be injected with something, especially for a virus with such low lethality in normally healthy people (this isn't a biblical plague). If the existing vaccine is showing such a high rate of failure why mandate it. Why suggest additional boosters of the same, when it doesn't seem to be settled yet whether it is time since inoculation vs changes in the Delta variant. Of course people are going to see a boost in immune response from a booster, but is that boost specific enough to increase efficacy and for how long? That is not known yet, because FDA approved or not, we are still experimenting....

    Edit to add, I enjoy civil debate on this topic.
    Last edited by Plateauplower; 08-26-2021 at 12:07 PM.
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    Originally Posted by mgftp View Post
    Perfectly said, as always.
    I wish, but thank you


    Originally Posted by Plateauplower View Post
    Not a strawman, the definitions are from the CDC.

    ...
    However, the primary difference is the level of coercion from the government to take the vaccine. My issue is primarily with that. It is simply wrong to coerce people to be injected with something, especially for a virus with such low lethality in normally healthy people (this isn't a biblical plague).
    Hold the phones! First, when did YOU decide to accept the CDC as an authority on English, much less immunology or anything else? Second, it doesn't say complete immunity. Third, Webster's says: :" a preparation containing usually killed or weakened microorganisms (as bacteria or viruses) that is given usually by injection to increase protection against a particular disease. vaccine. noun."

    I'll check my antique Stedman's later for fun. Can't right now because it's in my wife's office, but regardless of whose definition we accept, they all seem to agree that increasing your immunity, resistance, protection seems to make something a vaccine. But it's silly of us to discuss semantics when the second part of your post is what's really important, and we agree on stuff like that to a large degree. And, in the ultimate display of egotism, I'm going to quote myself from another thread to confirm that even though it's not 100% aligned.

    Originally Posted by JustTheDad View Post
    Without data showing a booster provides great protection against becoming an asymptomatic spreader, actually "requiring" one seems like a really silly idea. Great way to alienate more people though, so I hope it doesn't happen.
    .
    Requiring anything with risks, no matter how small those risks are, is something that needs to be evaluated very carefully. Whether or not we should be requiring a vaccine against the wild type strain when the bigger concern is the delta strain is a complicated question. In my opinion it depends on why, when, for whom, and for what privileges. Nobody goes to jail for not getting it, so really, that last question is what rights do you potentially give up if you don't want it, and I don't know what's reasonable or appropriate. (I feel like I say "I don't know" an awful lot on this thread)
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    Registered User Plateauplower's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by JustTheDad View Post
    I wish, but thank you




    Hold the phones! First, when did YOU decide to accept the CDC as an authority on English, much less immunology or anything else? Second, it doesn't say complete immunity. Third, Webster's says: :" a preparation containing usually killed or weakened microorganisms (as bacteria or viruses) that is given usually by injection to increase protection against a particular disease. vaccine. noun."

    I'll check my antique Stedman's later for fun. Can't right now because it's in my wife's office, but regardless of whose definition we accept, they all seem to agree that increasing your immunity, resistance, protection seems to make something a vaccine. But it's silly of us to discuss semantics when the second part of your post is what's really important, and we agree on stuff like that to a large degree. And, in the ultimate display of egotism, I'm going to quote myself from another thread to confirm that even though it's not 100% aligned.



    Requiring anything with risks, no matter how small those risks are, is something that needs to be evaluated very carefully. Whether or not we should be requiring a vaccine against the wild type strain when the bigger concern is the delta strain is a complicated question. In my opinion it depends on why, when, for whom, and for what privileges. Nobody goes to jail for not getting it, so really, that last question is what rights do you potentially give up if you don't want it, and I don't know what's reasonable or appropriate. (I feel like I say "I don't know" an awful lot on this thread)
    Believe it or not, in my early college years I was premed with a goal of working at the CDC ideally with emerging dangerous diseases (LOL glad I didn't SRS). I later decided that I would be so in debt with student loans by the time I finished that career path that I'd likely never be able to pay it off, especially making GS pay for the CDC. That said, the definition is what is posted on the CDCs website, I guess nobody gave them the memo.

    We agree on the vaccine thing, and I've seen other posts of your's indicting that. I believe that if the severity of COVID was significant enough (similar to smallpox for example which is disfiguring and a 30% +- CFR) there would not need to be coercion. Then again, maybe not as there are a lot of similarities between 1918 and 2020/21 with regard to how the public responds to a public health crisis. "I/we don't know" is a perfectly acceptable response in a situation like this and I wish the CDC/FDA would use that more rather than making definitive statements that they simply need to walk back, sometimes days later as was the case for the boosters. They would not have lost as much credibility, and people would be more willing to trust their "recommendations" rather than the constant flip flopping on "mandates" that we have seen. I 100% agree with the recommendation that people get vaccinated, but that's where it ends for me. Provide the information in an honest and straightforward way, and allow people to take precautions and make their personal medical decisions on their own.
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    Originally Posted by Plateauplower View Post
    Is that your understanding of how vaccines are intended to work? You can still become infected and spread the pathogen, but have a lower risk of dying?

    Definition of Terms

    Vaccine: A product that stimulates a person’s immune system to produce immunity to a specific disease, protecting the person from that disease. Vaccines are usually administered through needle injections, but can also be administered by mouth or sprayed into the nose.

    Immunity: Protection from an infectious disease. If you are immune to a disease, you can be exposed to it without becoming infected.

    https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/imz-basics.htm

    Has the science changed? A vaccine that does not accomplish these definitions is a failure, or at best a prophylactic treatment.
    With your PHD in this subject matter, do you find it concerning that the number of "breakthrough cases" (vaccinated people contracting the disease, asymptomatically or otherwise), provides the pathogen an opportunity to further evade the effects of the vaccine induced immunity?



    See above.
    Yes, some vaccines are intended to work that way. Many anti-toxin vaccines are anti-disease with small impacts on transmission. Natural infection doesn’t always induce sterilizing immunity either, including against sarscov2. Should we not call that immunity?

    To your other point, yes and no. I don’t have time now, but heterogeneous vaccination will slow that down. Additionally, vaccines are reducing the ability of the pathogen to generate genetic diversity, even if leaky. This is why historically drug resistance evolves much faster than vaccine evasion. But yeah with leaky vaccines that is a concern. The alternative, vaccinate the elderly and not the young and healthy, is not well thought out from an evolutionary perspective imo.

    Delta’s fitness advantage stems more from mechanisms for increased host exploitation and less due to its ability to avoid targeting by preexisting immunity.
    "Seen in the light of evolution, biology is, perhaps, intellectually the most satisfying and inspiring science. Without that light it becomes a pile of sundry facts -- some of them interesting or curious but making no meaningful picture as a whole."
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    So vaccine talk aside for one post, I just found out it's impossible to get a quick and easy Covid test for common folk in my area which is crazy because I believe testing is very important to stopping spread. I have some light Covid like symptoms and a heavy schedule over the next week so wanted to get a test and every testing place that doesn't need a Rx is booked out for days, like wtf? Luckily for me I work in healthcare and will reach out to a person or two today to get an inside track to a test but IMO it's completely unacceptable that a person can't get quick easy access to a Covid test if they have symptoms.
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    Originally Posted by mgftp View Post
    So vaccine talk aside for one post, I just found out it's impossible to get a quick and easy Covid test for common folk in my area which is crazy because I believe testing is very important to stopping spread. I have some light Covid like symptoms and a heavy schedule over the next week so wanted to get a test and every testing place that doesn't need a Rx is booked out for days, like wtf? Luckily for me I work in healthcare and will reach out to a person or two today to get an inside track to a test but IMO it's completely unacceptable that a person can't get quick easy access to a Covid test if they have symptoms.
    You don't have home testing kits available at your local CVS or Walgreens? We have them here and I've heard they're fairly good, particularly if symptomatic.
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    Originally Posted by ectoBgone View Post
    You don't have home testing kits available at your local CVS or Walgreens? We have them here and I've heard they're fairly good, particularly if symptomatic.
    Not that I know of but I'll figure out what my avenues are today. I was hoping to get access to a rapid test as I have a busy weekend that I would like to keep if I get a negative test result.

    Edit:

    Looks like that would be an option unless they are all sold out. Accuracy is questionable and I don't want to pay for something my insurance will cover if I can get in a testing site though, lol.
    Last edited by mgftp; 08-27-2021 at 04:08 AM.
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    Originally Posted by mgftp View Post
    So vaccine talk aside for one post, I just found out it's impossible to get a quick and easy Covid test for common folk in my area which is crazy because I believe testing is very important to stopping spread. I have some light Covid like symptoms and a heavy schedule over the next week so wanted to get a test and every testing place that doesn't need a Rx is booked out for days, like wtf? Luckily for me I work in healthcare and will reach out to a person or two today to get an inside track to a test but IMO it's completely unacceptable that a person can't get quick easy access to a Covid test if they have symptoms.
    Are isolating until you can be tested?
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    Registered Alpha mgftp's Avatar
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    Secured a rapid test appointment early this afternoon. Being Covid positive would get me out of a meeting next week in which I have to do a big presentation. Not sure what result I want.

    Originally Posted by Plateauplower View Post
    Are isolating until you can be tested?
    Of course. You think I'm an *******?
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    Originally Posted by mgftp View Post
    Secured a rapid test appointment early this afternoon. Being Covid positive would get me out of a meeting next week in which I have to do a big presentation. Not sure what result I want.



    Of course. You think I'm an *******?

    Ouch sorry to hear this brother, fingers crossed for you
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    People who recovered from a bout of Covid-19 during one of the earlier waves of the pandemic appear to have a lower risk of contracting the delta variant than those who got two doses of the vaccine from Pfizer.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ytV9rkkUBRlM-w

    Wait. You mean natural immunity works????
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    Originally Posted by mgftp View Post
    Secured a rapid test appointment early this afternoon. Being Covid positive would get me out of a meeting next week in which I have to do a big presentation. Not sure what result I want.



    Of course. You think I'm an *******?
    Hard to say, as I'm not sure what word is censored...

    I've personally had several of my staff test positive on a rapid and negative on PCR (places were doing both simultaneously here), but that was a while ago and I believe changes were made since. Good luck, you've been vaxxed so once you get infected and achieve that superior natural immunity you'll be GTG
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    Originally Posted by CommitmentRulz View Post
    People who recovered from a bout of Covid-19 during one of the earlier waves of the pandemic appear to have a lower risk of contracting the delta variant than those who got two doses of the vaccine from Pfizer.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ytV9rkkUBRlM-w

    Wait. You mean natural immunity works????
    What about those who didn't recover. Does it work for them too?
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    Originally Posted by mgftp View Post
    Secured a rapid test appointment early this afternoon. Being Covid positive would get me out of a meeting next week in which I have to do a big presentation. Not sure what result I want.



    Of course. You think I'm an *******?
    Rapid tests are not reliable, esp if you do not have most of the symptoms. My daughter got the rapid and it came back negative. She finally took a molecular test a week later, after she was already recovering, and it came back positive.

    Do the molecular. It only takes a day.
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    Originally Posted by Jtbny View Post
    What about those who didn't recover. Does it work for them too?
    I was about to post the same. SMH

    On spread
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    Originally Posted by Jtbny View Post
    What about those who didn't recover. Does it work for them too?
    And if i didn't catch either, can i request the *Alpha strain*, the OG Covid-19, just so that i don't get *new and improved* Delta?
    Maybe i will just wait it out and try for Lambda.
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    Originally Posted by CommitmentRulz View Post
    People who recovered from a bout of Covid-19 during one of the earlier waves of the pandemic appear to have a lower risk of contracting the delta variant than those who got two doses of the vaccine from Pfizer.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ytV9rkkUBRlM-w

    Wait. You mean natural immunity works????
    Did you read the actual analysis linked in this article? Because that is not what you think it says

    Reports of waning vaccine-induced immunity against COVID-19 have begun to surface. With that, the comparable long-term protection conferred by previous infection with SARS-CoV-2 remains unclear

    Individuals who were previously infected with SARS-CoV-2 seem to gain additional protection from a subsequent single-dose vaccine regimen. Though this finding corresponds to previous reports24,25, we could not demonstrate significance in our cohort

    The advantageous protection afforded by natural immunity that this analysis demonstrates could be explained by the more extensive immune response to the SARS-CoV-2 proteins than that generated by the anti-spike protein immune activation conferred by the vaccine26,27. However, as a correlate of protection is yet to be proven1,28, including the role of B-Cell29 and T-cell immunity30,31, this remains a hypothesis


    limitations (most important IMHO)

    Our study has several limitations. First, as the Delta variant was the dominant strain in Israel during the outcome period, the decreased long-term protection of the vaccine compared to that afforded by previous infection cannot be ascertained against other strains
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    Originally Posted by Jtbny View Post
    What about those who didn't recover. Does it work for them too?
    You mean like those people in death camps set up by the Governor of NY?? (Oops, I mean nursing homes...)

    Look, I'm not minimizing the many, many deaths. They were/are ALL unfortunate.

    However, in the rush to create and establish vaccine mandates, these people with SUPERIOR immunity to the vaccinated are being ignored/minimized. When, in reality, they are LESS LIKELY to get sick and SPREAD covid than the vaccinated.
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    Originally Posted by lotusdeva View Post
    Did you read the actual analysis linked in this article? Because that is not what you think it says

    Our study has several limitations. First, as the Delta variant was the dominant strain in Israel during the outcome period, the decreased long-term protection of the vaccine compared to that afforded by previous infection cannot be ascertained against other strains
    Praraphrase: Well, we don't know if previous infection will help protect against future unknown strains...


    OK , great, so show me studies that the current vaccine will help against other (unknown) strains. Especially given that the Delta variant shows problems with vaccine coverage/effectiveness.
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