Your dad would be an extreme outlier if it really was Guillain-Barre. I am almost sure it wasn't. The etiology is an autoimmune response against your own peripheral nerves. That simply doesn't go away in a day or two even with massive doses of steroids. We can't completely shut down the immune response and get the inflammation to resolve that fast. My guess is your dad had something else.
As far as costochondritis, it does get better. I'm surprised you guys weren't given NSAIDS, although they'd likely have a minimal effect on recovery time. My 105lb daughter was doing hip thrusters with some stupid amount of weight and her elbow slipped or something while she was levering her back onto the bench. She has a very localized costochondritis now too because she dislocated one of her upper ribs transiently. I told her it would be a couple of months before she could do any serious lifting that flexes that area. Otherwise she'll just prolong the inflammation. Hope you guys get better soon.
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Thread: Will you get vaccinated?
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07-13-2021, 01:23 PM #3181
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07-13-2021, 01:27 PM #3182
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07-13-2021, 02:00 PM #3183
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07-13-2021, 02:19 PM #3184
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07-13-2021, 02:38 PM #3185
Sorry buddy, been really busy these days and besides I'm tired of talking about covid, by now all the covid threads have been either confirmed or scrapped by facts. No states that opened did not have a catastrophe, yes Fauci is a POS, yes they reported more deaths for covid than there really were, no countries with socialized healthcare didn't do better than the US, yes the virus could have come from a China lab... Now the threads have veered on the vaccine subject. In a few months the facts will prove who's right and who's wrong.
But yeah, somebody saying someone who had covid and the vaccine is somehow more immune than someone who just had covid was too spectacular to let it slide.Follow my 2018 competition prep here:
https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=175566421&p=1547462721#post1547462721
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07-13-2021, 03:10 PM #3186
Yes, I am a physician. Did they do a lumbar puncture and an EMG? Did he have plasmapheresis or receive immune globulins? Guillain-Barre doesn't resolve 100% in 30 hours. If you tell me he was worked up at an academic medical center where they found elevated protein in his CSF, did nerve conduction studies that were consistent with it, and ruled out toxins and other more likely etiologies, then I'll consider it to be unlikely, but not impossible. If they were certain it was GB and it resolved in 30 hours, it would be a write up in a medical journal. It's so far out of the normal course that I'd doubt it if one of my old neurology attendings put it down as the diagnosis. I'd also understand why it's a reasonable diagnosis to put down.
Guillain-Barre is a nice easy to remember name for acute inflammatory demyelinating polyradiculoneuropathy. GB tells you nothing, but the descriptive name tells you what it actually does. Do you think myelin recovers in 30 hours? Most studies have shown it takes weeks, and that would be without an ongoing autoimmune reaction.
I suspect they didn't know the etiology and needed a diagnosis in order to get your dad's care covered. After recovery, there's no real concern about someone who has had GB getting something worse later in life. It's a safe diagnosis for him. No future stigma, bills get covered, paperwork gets done. Perfect for when you have to put something down for reimbursement.
I'm not trying to be mean or belittle your story. Whatever your dad had, it sounds serious, very scary, and I'm glad he's OK, but based on your description, it was more likely a case of "we couldn't find anything else, so let's call it GB", than a true case of autoimmune mediated peripheral demyelination. The people getting GB due to COVID or a vaccine won't be recovering in 30 hours. They'll be miserable for a while, miss a lot of work, possibly have long term sequalae, and it's important to consider that when we discuss the risks from a vaccine or the risks from SARS CoV2.
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07-13-2021, 03:14 PM #3187
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07-13-2021, 03:17 PM #3188
Actually, there's some evidence of what you quoted as being true if you are talking about cross immunity to the variants. You will have measurable antibodies for a longer period of time and that does correlate with a decreased risk of getting a different strain.
But for the most part, I'd agree with you. Most of the decrease we'll see in people who got a booster shot post "COVID" is due to the fact that some of the people in the group didn't actually have it. They had a false positive test or were mis-diagnosed, and their booster shot was actually their only shot. The benefit to people who actually had COVID is probably insignificant with our current vaccines.
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07-13-2021, 03:52 PM #3189
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07-13-2021, 04:48 PM #3190
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07-13-2021, 04:53 PM #3191
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07-13-2021, 06:15 PM #3192
Seeing an immune response to a vaccine does not equal increased protection. The level of confirmed reinfection is so low that it is essentially nonexistent outside of people with an immune system condition. As of several months ago there were fewer than 200 cases, globally, of confirmed reinfection. Sure there are a lot of “suspected” reinfection cases, but the number of test confirmed duplicate cases is so low it is within the threshold of being a false positive test on one of the cases. So I’d love to see any documentation that you have to support this.
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07-13-2021, 06:16 PM #3193
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07-13-2021, 08:06 PM #3194
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07-13-2021, 09:14 PM #3195
Nonsense. Within a single study they found 62 people reinfected out of 9,100 severe disease cases. Other studies have showed similar rates of reinfection.
https://academic.oup.com/cid/advance...iab345/6251701
Reinfection is rare, but it does happen and it is not negligible.
The facts are these: in vivo studies demonstrate superior immune responses after a recovered host is vaccinated vs. recovered and not vaccinated. That is what Tom said, and it is true. If you want to make an argument that those responses 1) should not be used to make conclusions about disease protection and/or 2) the benefits they do provide do not outweigh the risk of vaccination, then that is a different argument.Last edited by Reliance012; 07-13-2021 at 09:30 PM.
"Seen in the light of evolution, biology is, perhaps, intellectually the most satisfying and inspiring science. Without that light it becomes a pile of sundry facts -- some of them interesting or curious but making no meaningful picture as a whole."
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07-13-2021, 09:48 PM #3196
Yeah, I was very wrong. I had believed the explanations given to me by the NHS and P.P. corrected me.
As I did some research, after that it's odd what proportion of the advice we're given here, stated as researched fact, has no research basis and a growing body of evidence that it's incorrect. Still pro vax for those who'd benefit, just increasingly fed up with the political machinery controlling medical "facts"
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07-14-2021, 01:53 AM #3197Air Force Veteran 1976 - 1999 - Cannabis Enthusiast since the 1960's
Retired at 40 Crew - Social distancing expert - Living the Dream
I use the gender neutral pronouns "Fukker/Fukkers" a lot.
****** I don't always agree with the memes I post ******
I tell it like it is, if you want smoke blown up your ass or something sugar coated. I suggest you get a Hooker and a powdered donut.
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07-14-2021, 02:51 AM #3198
I’m pro-vaccine as well, overall. It is less risky than the disease for probably any healthy 40+ YO overall. The deceit used to push it is disturbing. I’ve worked in both the public and private sectors, and am very aware of the game of people bouncing back and fourth from regulatory / policy / decision making public sector jobs and private sector for profit companies. The people who sell products and services also create the regulations / policy /recommendations for the public sector through revolving door jobs, special interest groups, and lobbyists. However, people need to be able to make their own decisions, which is increasingly difficult with misinformation and suppression of information from the people who are supposed to provide factual data. This happens across all sectors in the US FDA, EPA, CDC, DOL, etc etc. and in most other developed countries. The amount of negative effects from vaccination are low, but not nonexistent. The risks from the disease are higher, but also low overall in healthy people w/out comorbidities.
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07-14-2021, 10:20 AM #3199
https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/14/enter...vid/index.html
Breakthrough case of covid...fukn chit.
I’ve been dining out every other day almost recently with my chick. We better be careful...**^^ gone ^^**
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07-14-2021, 10:44 AM #3200
Support what? You pretty much said exactly what I said. Read my post again. I specified cross strain immunity when I mentioned antibody levels. If you'd like me to clarify that the studies showing a correlation between cross strain viral immunity and antibody levels weren't done with SARS, that's fine. I haven't seen any data on SARS regarding that yet, but is it your belief that antibody levels have zero correlation with your immunity to a different strain of SARS? Do a lit search for cross reactive immunity and viral strains. An article in nature discussed this, so did one in Frontiers in Immunology, but those were about SARS. You'll need to filter out the ones about SARS. I clearly said most of the benefit would be due to vaccinating people who only thought they had COVID. I'll see if I can get the references from a presentation on this I attended for you too, if I run into the doc who gave it.
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07-14-2021, 10:47 AM #3201
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07-14-2021, 10:51 AM #3202
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07-14-2021, 12:21 PM #3203
CNN rolls the tape on Fox News hosts' anti-vaccine rhetoric
Air Force Veteran 1976 - 1999 - Cannabis Enthusiast since the 1960's
Retired at 40 Crew - Social distancing expert - Living the Dream
I use the gender neutral pronouns "Fukker/Fukkers" a lot.
****** I don't always agree with the memes I post ******
I tell it like it is, if you want smoke blown up your ass or something sugar coated. I suggest you get a Hooker and a powdered donut.
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07-14-2021, 01:01 PM #3204
When I see proud banners on product saying “Made with real cheese” and chit like that, I cringe thinking what the fuk were they feeding us all this time? What were all these regulating govt bodies doing and thinking while these companies shoved chemicals down our throats? Some of us consumed them under the impression they were vetted or even good and healthy options.
If you think about it, in the “dust storm” of fake and real information, combined with this virus being a thing of recent present, not enough data (well kinda enough I think), and all kinds of good and bad opinions, we are simply just believing what in our opinion is true and makes us as an individual truly comfortable.
For some this comfort may come from not wearing a mask atall and not believing in/trusting the vaccine or even claiming there is no virus and for others (like me) it may be that “fuken chit, it may or may not be true, may or may not work, but in my opinion it seems vaccine has a very low percentage of adverse effect, so go ahead and take it and masks, well, they can’t really harm anyone unless the masks themselves are unhygienic (I keep mine squeaky clean and change it out if it gets dirty - like every week or two)”
They do them and I do me**^^ gone ^^**
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07-14-2021, 02:11 PM #3205
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07-14-2021, 02:13 PM #3206
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07-14-2021, 02:21 PM #3207
Oh, got it. I thought you were implying they would have increased protection which would be hard to determine given the extremely low number of confirmed reinfection. I would expect to see increased immune response, but so far the short term circulating antibodies don’t seem to be the factor in post infection immunity (cell mediated immunity Ts and helper Ts seem to be driving that).
Even if there are increased breakthrough infections in vaccinated people, they appear to be resulting in mild disease, I would hope that the mild breakthrough cases would result in additional natural immunity. I wasn’t suggesting going for natural immunity as a public health strategy, since we have vaccines that are effective, but it seems that is the route some people are going to go based on vaccination levels in some states. Of course there’s always a chance of vaccination levels naturally picking back up in the fall when some of these areas start to see significant caseloads and corresponding deaths in the higher risk groups.
Why is the WHO / CDC now indicating that a booster would be dangerous for vaccinated people, when in all likelihood, elderly and immunocompromised might need them by the fall?Last edited by Plateauplower; 07-14-2021 at 02:26 PM.
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07-14-2021, 02:27 PM #3208Air Force Veteran 1976 - 1999 - Cannabis Enthusiast since the 1960's
Retired at 40 Crew - Social distancing expert - Living the Dream
I use the gender neutral pronouns "Fukker/Fukkers" a lot.
****** I don't always agree with the memes I post ******
I tell it like it is, if you want smoke blown up your ass or something sugar coated. I suggest you get a Hooker and a powdered donut.
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07-14-2021, 02:47 PM #3209
Fuk it. I’ve been walled before and it Fukin sucks. Lmao. Not that I matter to him (hopefully I don’t lol) but here it goes...
Hey mr namecaller,
Did you see my rather wordy post up above? That should tell you how long I’m gonna wear my mask.
You know what, I’ll spell it out for you since you seem to want everyone to listen to your ideas and talk and point of views but you don’t want to listen to the same of anyone one else’s; I’ll wear my mask till I feel comfortable taking it off. We’ve been dining out and I’ve been kind of relaxed with my mask in public places and at work - I’m gonna go ahead and start being more careful again. But for now, yea, the “Chinese who knows if it works kn95” is on the horizon for a while till I FEEL COMFORTABLE NOT HAVING ONE ON (deciding factor will be real or fake news of covid infections going down to almost completely eliminated)
We walk into a Restauraunt with masks on and take it off after sitting down. YES WE’RE ONE OF THOSE. haha This way we’re only exposed to our server. We also try and get a corner table away from where there is lots of people walking by.
In a park or out walking, we don’t put our masks on unless it’s crowded.
In closed public places like bowling, etc, we keep our mask on and take it off to sip on drinks or snacks/food**^^ gone ^^**
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07-14-2021, 03:03 PM #3210
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