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  1. #61
    In Witness Protection mtpockets's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by PhDPepper1111 View Post
    Amused by so many so scared of the vaccine who simultaneously claim they're not scared of Rona. Make up yer minds.
    Don't confuse caution with fear dumbass
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  2. #62
    Quarantined Finja Cass40's Avatar
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    Do you have to take it every year or just once?
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  3. #63
    Registered User Plateauplower's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Cass40 View Post
    Do you have to take it every year or just once?
    All currently in production except for one require two injections spaced out over a couple weeks. Should be good for years to decades provided that the virus doesn’t mutate enough that it requires a new specific vaccine.
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  4. #64
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    Absolutely I'll take it. I had so many vaccinations in the military one more won't hurt. The flu put me in the hospital about 15 years ago, so I always get a flu shot now too.
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  5. #65
    Quarantined Finja Cass40's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Plateauplower View Post
    All currently in production except for one require two injections spaced out over a couple weeks. Should be good for years to decades provided that the virus doesn’t mutate enough that it requires a new specific vaccine.
    Then shouldn't we all take it before it mutates and we'll be in the same boat again?
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  6. #66
    Registered User pandaboy89's Avatar
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    Just lol at getting vaccines every 2 months and getting tested twice a week
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  7. #67
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    This post is from a reputable member from another site, an off topic discussion which I thought you may find of interest.



    There is much that troubles me about the Pfizer vaccine announcement and most of it stems from my experience of over 25 years working as a medical laboratory scientist. I fully understand the pressures involved in getting this drug to commercialisation but it concerns me. As far as I can ascertain (no paper has been released) Phase 3 trials have not concluded i.e. efficacy trials ... does it work?

    We don't know what type of clinical trials were conducted (double blind, randomised double blind etc etc)
    We don't know how the vaccine worked. Did it prevent infection with the coronavirus or did it prevent development of symptoms of the disease (Covid-19) How severe were the symptoms?
    How severe were the Covid-19 symptoms in the placebo group?
    We don't know if there were any or what were the side-effects of the vaccine
    We have been told that the vaccine needs to be stored at minus 80deg, I presume this means in liquid nitrogen. How will the logistics of distribution work? Presumably people will have to get themselves to a vaccination centre. How will this work in poorer countries?
    One of the greatest benefits of the Sabin vaccine has been the ease of distribution in poorer countries, the vaccine an be easily transported to remote populations in containers with regular freezer packs. Will it be a case of priority for the vaccine is given to the richer countries with well-established health infrastructure. In the past, children and adults have died from being inoculated with improperly stored vaccines.
    I believe that all the Pfizer trials have been done on adults, will the vaccine be tested on children? When?
    Pfizer is an enormous, reputable Pharma.


    also -


    The major problem is that if the vaccine doesn’t offer protection against the coronavirus, it means that someone given the vaccine will continue to shed the virus and thus continue to be capable of infecting others but will not develop the disease (COVID-19).
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  8. #68
    Registered User Plateauplower's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Cass40 View Post
    Then shouldn't we all take it before it mutates and we'll be in the same boat again?
    Viruses by biological definition, are not living things, so it doesn’t try to mutate per se. More a matter of chance. It’s unlikely the virus will be eradicated any time in the foreseeable future, if ever. However, when you have enough “dead end hosts”, people who are immune from previous infection or vaccine, it will decline to the point it won’t really matter. There’s just no way to expect to vaccinate everyone globally in any near-term time frame. Especially with the vaccines currently being produced. They will work fine in developed countries but will not be very easy to distribute in very rural areas here, and nearly impossible in 3rd world countries that lack the logistics and gear to keep the vaccine at -80 degrees. I’m sure eventually that could be figured out, but there wouldn’t be much money in it (3rd world countries can’t afford it) so probably not a high priority. Imo COVID will just become an endemic disease, but will be insignificant in terms of other causes of death. I don’t think it will be like the flu where they need to make revised guessed at recombinations of various strains for an annual vaccine. It would make the most sense after the numbers are brought down to have the vaccine (or booster based on years of study) to be given at a certain age like 50-60 etc.

    Edit to add....To Lou1se post:
    Vaccines work by priming your own immune system to fight the “infection” by recognizing the pathogen (similar to post infection immunity) So IMO the vaccine won’t allow people to become infected to the degree that they start shedding virus like people who are asymptotic but infectious currently. Usually the shedding process is occurring when the virus is at a high level of replication in the host. That shouldn’t happen if your immune system can recognize the pathogen and react. Your infection would be over before you built a high enough virus titer to shed virus and be infectious. You could still act as a carrier if clothing was contaminated with someone else’s infectious material and you came into contact with someone.

    Interesting side note. I was watching a documentary series about the Challenger disaster last night and I caught one of them saying “you have to stay 6’ away from me, I’m in quarantine” this was real footage from the mid 80s making sure they don’t have a bunch of people in space with colds or the flu etc. it just caught my attention when it was mentioned. That $hit was criminal, there were engineers who absolutely knew there were problems and even spoke up before the launch but it was rushed despite concerns and even poor launch conditions (temps well below what they based “acceptable” on).
    Last edited by Plateauplower; 12-02-2020 at 06:08 PM.
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  9. #69
    ~~MsFit~~ Lou1se's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Plateauplower View Post
    Edit to add....To Lou1se post:
    Vaccines work by priming your own immune system to fight the “infection” by recognizing the pathogen (similar to post infection immunity) So IMO the vaccine won’t allow people to become infected to the degree that they start shedding virus like people who are asymptotic but infectious currently. Usually the shedding process is occurring when the virus is at a high level of replication in the host. That shouldn’t happen if your immune system can recognize the pathogen and react. Your infection would be over before you built a high enough virus titer to shed virus and be infectious. You could still act as a carrier if clothing was contaminated with someone else’s infectious material and you came into contact with someone.
    Thank you very much for that, PP. We are so fortunate to have your professional opinion on this matter.
    .
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  10. #70
    Quarantined Finja Cass40's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Lou1se View Post
    Thank you very much for that, PP. We are so fortunate to have your professional opinion on this matter.
    Agreed. Better than trying to google
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  11. #71
    ~~MsFit~~ Lou1se's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Cass40 View Post
    Agreed. Better than trying to google
    haha no it wasn't from Google. I wouldn't be quick to dismiss what was said by the other party
    .
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  12. #72
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    Originally Posted by Cass40 View Post
    Agreed. Better than trying to google
    Originally Posted by Lou1se View Post
    haha no it wasn't from Google. I wouldn't be quick to dismiss what was said by the other party
    Hmm two attractive ladies debating. This tomb suddenly got more interesting.
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  13. #73
    Quarantined Finja Cass40's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Lou1se View Post
    haha no it wasn't from Google. I wouldn't be quick to dismiss what was said by the other party
    Lol not you..I meant I was trying to google answers to my own questions but the only things that came up was like these million gazillion pages that I wasn't going to read. So I was glad PP answered and pretty quickly too which I appreciate
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  14. #74
    ~~MsFit~~ Lou1se's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Cass40 View Post
    Lol not you..I meant I was trying to google answers to my own questions but the only things that came up was like these million gazillion pages that I wasn't going to read. So I was glad PP answered and pretty quickly too which I appreciate
    No worries Cass, I don't blame you for looking for answers. I remain cautious.
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    ~~MsFit~~ Lou1se's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Bando View Post
    Hmm two attractive ladies debating. This tomb suddenly got more interesting.
    Originally Posted by Oceanside View Post
    funny

    pretty much what I was thinkin..
    Sorry to disappoint you fellas
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  16. #76
    Crawling back under rock OldFartTom's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Cass40 View Post
    Then shouldn't we all take it before it mutates and we'll be in the same boat again?
    Maybe, but it might lurk quietly in the background and mutate anyway
    For example there a country to my East that has a weird practice of keeping 17 million animals caged in barbaric conditions and the virus got into the animal population mutated and back into people in close proximity with them creating a new strain of virus.

    Yes DENMARK, I'm talking about you! The Danish new virus mutation " It’s not racist at all. No, not at all. It comes from Denmark, that’s why. It comes from Denmark. I want to be accurate"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-55101058
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    Crawling back under rock OldFartTom's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Lou1se View Post
    ...from a reputable member from another site....

    Phase 3 trials have not concluded i.e. efficacy trials ... does it work?

    We don't know what type of clinical trials were conducted (double blind, randomised double blind etc etc)
    We don't know how the vaccine worked. Did it prevent infection with the coronavirus or did it prevent development of symptoms of the disease (Covid-19) How severe were the symptoms?
    How severe were the Covid-19 symptoms in the placebo group?
    We don't know if there were any or what were the side-effects of the vaccine
    We have been told that the vaccine needs to be stored at minus 80deg, I presume this means in liquid nitrogen. How will the logistics of distribution work? Presumably people will have to get themselves to a vaccination centre.
    Maybe this comment is getting old? Because many of these questions (ok not all) are addressed and widely reported. Also an experienced lab tech would know the temp of dry ice, so that bit seems very weird.

    A lot of the article is UK centric but it also covers much of the questions above https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55045639

    Originally Posted by Lou1se View Post
    ...How will this work in poorer countries?
    One of the greatest benefits of the Sabin vaccine has been the ease of distribution in poorer countries, the vaccine an be easily transported to remote populations in containers with regular freezer packs. Will it be a case of priority for the vaccine is given to the richer countries with well-established health infrastructure. In the past, children and adults have died from being inoculated with improperly stored vaccines...
    It won't be suitable for those use cases, even in countries like UK and US the logistics will be challenging. But there are several different vaccines behind developed and others may be more suitable. There's more versions than just the Pfizer one, with similar efficacy and fairly similar stages of development

    Originally Posted by Lou1se View Post
    ... it means that someone given the vaccine will continue to shed the virus and thus continue to be capable of infecting others but will not develop the disease (COVID-19).
    Yes, this is how vaccines work!! It's not a magic bullet that offers perfect total protection forever for everyone. A group of people within the vaccinated population may contract the disease and become ill asymptomatically but as a population they'll be ill for a far shorter period than if they weren't vaccinated and shed less and transmit the disease less (lowers R number) so it's still "working" in that circumstance.
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  18. #78
    Registered User Plateauplower's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by OldFartTom View Post
    Maybe this comment is getting old? Because many of these questions (ok not all) are addressed and widely reported. Also an experienced lab tech would know the temp of dry ice, so that bit seems very weird.

    A lot of the article is UK centric but it also covers much of the questions above https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55045639


    It won't be suitable for those use cases, even in countries like UK and US the logistics will be challenging. But there are several different vaccines behind developed and others may be more suitable. There's more versions than just the Pfizer one, with similar efficacy and fairly similar stages of development


    Yes, this is how vaccines work!! It's not a magic bullet that offers perfect total protection forever for everyone. A group of people within the vaccinated population may contract the disease and become ill asymptomatically but as a population they'll be ill for a far shorter period than if they weren't vaccinated and shed less and transmit the disease less (lowers R number) so it's still "working" in that circumstance.
    Most vaccines (with the exception of flu vaccines when they choose strains incorrectly) are pretty effective at reducing viral load in the vaccinated person to the extent any viral shedding is pretty limited. Basically when a virus enters a host cell, it takes over the cellular "machinery" to replicate itself (its genetic sequence of arranged proteins) over and over until eventually the cell dies and bursts (cellular lysis) and all of those viral progeny scatter and can infect other cells, some will be exhaled just by matter of chance / where they are on the lung tissue etc. This cycle repeats itself until the host dies or can generate an effective immune response to defeat the virus which also includes killing and consuming body cells infected by the virus. If you have an effective vaccine, or post infection immunity, the host can mount an effective "counter attack" more quickly which will help prevent viral loads from getting so high that shedding large quantities of virus is unlikely. It doesn't make it impossible, but greatly reduces it to the point it shouldn't be a major issue.

    I haven't researched the vaccines too much but I know most of the US/Europe front runners require a lot of storage and handling care. Hopefully they can figure something out for a more stable way to store it. RNA is very fragile though so I'm guessing that is the reason for the extreme cold temps. Not sure if there would be a viable way to freeze dry those. I heard on the radio several of the manufactures had their current vaccine "figured out" within a week of the genome of the virus being determined which seems crazy. There is one that I am aware of that doesn't require the extreme temps but still needs specific storage conditions (as does the flu vaccine). They will be able to use many of them in remote and third world countries, it will just be expensive, time consuming and difficult. Like fly in large scale vaccinations, which really sucks if you have to use two doses spaced out...

    I don't think there will be much to worry about with the safety of vaccine, and we will know pretty quickly in this age of rapid communication. Especially when they start dosing all the medical workers, elderly and military branches. I'd take it if I wasn't confident I already had the Rona. I would not want to be "first" regardless, but big pharma isn't going to intentionally put something out that will cut into their profits due to adverse reactions or an ineffective vaccine. There is way too much money on the table across the competing companies to screw this up. I am confused/concerned why Merck decided to sell their position in Moderna though. That just seems "off", but maybe they feel they made enough on that holding, or there are others in the running that seem like a better fit due to logistics or production...No idea - if I knew I'd be dumping money into it too lol.
    Last edited by Plateauplower; 12-03-2020 at 05:20 AM.
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    Originally Posted by mtpockets View Post
    Don't confuse caution with fear dumbass
    That's just it most of these idjits don't display any caution with COVID....
    It's never too late!

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    Originally Posted by Plateauplower View Post
    Most vaccines (with the exception of flu vaccines when they choose strains incorrectly) are pretty effective at reducing viral load in the vaccinated person to the extent any viral shedding is pretty limited. Basically when a virus enters a host cell, it takes over the cellular "machinery" to replicate itself (its genetic sequence of arranged proteins) over and over until eventually the cell dies and bursts (cellular lysis) and all of those viral progeny scatter and can infect other cells, some will be exhaled just by matter of chance / where they are on the lung tissue etc. This cycle repeats itself until the host dies or can generate an effective immune response to defeat the virus which also includes killing and consuming body cells infected by the virus. If you have an effective vaccine, or post infection immunity, the host can mount an effective "counter attack" more quickly which will help prevent viral loads from getting so high that shedding large quantities of virus is unlikely. It doesn't make it impossible, but greatly reduces it to the point it shouldn't be a major issue.

    I haven't researched the vaccines too much but I know most of the US/Europe front runners require a lot of storage and handling care. Hopefully they can figure something out for a more stable way to store it. RNA is very fragile though so I'm guessing that is the reason for the extreme cold temps. Not sure if there would be a viable way to freeze dry those. I heard on the radio several of the manufactures had their current vaccine "figured out" within a week of the genome of the virus being determined which seems crazy. There is one that I am aware of that doesn't require the extreme temps but still needs specific storage conditions (as does the flu vaccine). They will be able to use many of them in remote and third world countries, it will just be expensive, time consuming and difficult. Like fly in large scale vaccinations, which really sucks if you have to use two doses spaced out...

    I don't think there will be much to worry about with the safety of vaccine, and we will know pretty quickly in this age of rapid communication. Especially when they start dosing all the medical workers, elderly and military branches. I'd take it if I wasn't confident I already had the Rona. I would not want to be "first" regardless, but big pharma isn't going to intentionally put something out that will cut into their profits due to adverse reactions or an ineffective vaccine. There is way too much money on the table across the competing companies to screw this up. I am confused/concerned why Merck decided to sell their position in Moderna though. That just seems "off", but maybe they feel they made enough on that holding, or there are others in the running that seem like a better fit due to logistics or production...No idea - if I knew I'd be dumping money into it too lol.
    One of the reasons it was developed 'so quickly' is that there had already been a ton of work on previous COVID strains - just like we're able to 'develop' new vaccines for flu each year... still agree with many of the comments here about the unusual speed with which it was developed, and on how they work.
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    I'm a front line worker in a hospital (service and deploy respiratory therapy machines). Have seen way than enough people on life support and vents and die and people being carted in a body bag in my hospital. Somehow, it didn't **** my mind seeing this **** almost weekly for the last 4-5 months. Have gotten used to putting on bunny suits for 10 hr shifts and sanitizing myself before I leave the hospital and then change when I get home. It's a new life ..thank god, I haven't gotten it to this day and neither have passed it to my family at home.

    ****ing pisses me off when I see people out there with no face mask and taking Covid as a joke. It's a joke till u end up on the ventilator and RT machines and then no one can help u and u lie there alone starring at 4 white walls and hoping your body can fight back. I've seen people like this daily during my shift.

    So yes, when the vaccine is out (and u haven't gotten Covid yet), please get it.
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  23. #83
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    Originally Posted by PhDPepper1111 View Post
    One of the reasons it was developed 'so quickly' is that there had already been a ton of work on previous COVID strains - just like we're able to 'develop' new vaccines for flu each year... still agree with many of the comments here about the unusual speed with which it was developed, and on how they work.
    Ya there was some work on other coronaviruses specifically SARS and MERS that I'm sure helped. Those were never completed because SARS kind of went away just from source control, and little money to be made on MERS cause camels aren't walking around everywhere lol. The medical technology is pretty advanced, an there is little doubt in my mind many diseases could be eliminated but aren't just due to lack of profit margin developing the cure. Then again millions of lives could be saved with simple hygiene and potable water in many places but it isn't...
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  24. #84
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    Originally Posted by ChemicalBuilder View Post
    Nit having my rna modified. Ni thank you.
    Instead ill wait for a normal vaccine but rona never been localized ever thats why theyre nit allowed to do autopsies on it and sht
    This. If it was the regular weakened virus injection like we have been doing vaccinations for centuries I may consider it, especially if it means I can go back to normal life. I am absolutely pro vaccines, in fact my arm is still dead from doing the tetanus boost 2 days ago. My mom almost died of diphtheria, and she had a church friend who had been crippled by polio, so I'm all for vaccines.

    This is a totally new type of vaccine, works on a different principle, and was rammed through all the testing and review process at warp speed. No long term effect studies. I think I'll sit this one out and watch what happens to those who get it, then take it from there.
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  25. #85
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    What is it with "it modifies your DNA" or "don't want my RNA modified"
    FFS... use Wikipedia people

    Lookup what DNA is and where it's located in a cell. Lookup mRNA and ribosomes protein synthesis - and where that happens in cells.

    Then decide based on how it works, not just that some person on social media somewhere thinks mRNA sounds a bit like like DNA so it's going to genetically engineer you (it isn't)

    Edit: that was aimed at the quoted text, not you sy2502
    Last edited by OldFartTom; 12-03-2020 at 10:18 AM.
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    Originally Posted by OldFartTom View Post
    What is it with "it modifies your DNA" or "don't want my RNA modified"
    FFS... use Wikipedia people

    Lookup what DNA is and where it's located in a cell. Lookup mRNA and ribosomes protein synthesis - and where that happens in cells.

    Then decide based on how it works, not just that some person on social media somewhere thinks mRNA sounds a bit like like DNA so it's going to genetically engineer you (it isn't)

    Edit: that was aimed at the quoted text, not you sy2502
    About 30% IIRC of the human genome is old junk viral genetic material. A cool area of research is correcting genetic defects by using innocuous viruses as a tool to correct the genetic error. Basically use a virus that won’t make the person sick, to invade the cell, cleave a specific incorrect sequence of the genetic sequence and insert the corrected protein sequence. This was relatively new concept when I was in school in the late 90s, no idea where it stands currently....I’m not foil hatting suggesting that this is the intent of the vaccine, but using viral components to change human DNA is real, or at least theoretically possible.
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  27. #87
    In Witness Protection mtpockets's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by BiomedDood View Post
    I'm a front line worker in a hospital (service and deploy respiratory therapy machines). Have seen way than enough people on life support and vents and die and people being carted in a body bag in my hospital. Somehow, it didn't **** my mind seeing this **** almost weekly for the last 4-5 months. Have gotten used to putting on bunny suits for 10 hr shifts and sanitizing myself before I leave the hospital and then change when I get home. It's a new life ..thank god, I haven't gotten it to this day and neither have passed it to my family at home.

    ****ing pisses me off when I see people out there with no face mask and taking Covid as a joke. It's a joke till u end up on the ventilator and RT machines and then no one can help u and u lie there alone starring at 4 white walls and hoping your body can fight back. I've seen people like this daily during my shift.

    So yes, when the vaccine is out (and u haven't gotten Covid yet), please get it.

    Thanks for posting this..Stay safe and thanks for all you do!
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    Yes. And LOL about it altering your RNA - FFS fuking read about it from reputable sources (Not your crazy uncles FB post) before saying stupid shti.
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    Personally, I'm low priority. But as soon as it's my turn, absolutely.

    While I am relatively healthy, why push the issue when a vaccine is available? On top of that, my mom is pushing 80 and a cancer survivor and my sister has an immune disorder which makes her especially vulnerable. The last thing I want to do is to be a carrier and give it to one or both of them.
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    In just 24 hours, the U.S. has broken every record set since the pandemic began 10 months ago, with more new infections, hospitalizations and deaths in a single day than ever before.




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