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  1. #5851
    Registered User Jbizzlechizzle's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Mark1T View Post
    100% all bullshiit. You blame rich people and white people and you believe the border is closed.

    What does: "the boarders are just as open as they've always been" even mean? No illegals crossing the border are being tested. Over 600,000 got-aways (not caught) crossed the border and are somewhere in the US. Your excuse is that illegals deserve to come here illegally because the US is rightfully theirs?

    What does: "The rich CEOs in the South get their cheap labor" mean? Sure, land owners who grow agriculture hire illegals, but not all illegals and not by the hundreds of thousands as you are insinuating. Your comment is baseless. Please list all these CEOs.

    Not trying to insult you, but you are the perfect "mark" who believes these Marxists seeds people in our government plant. They pick a demographic to pick on, like white people and rich people and then they use the media and their own comments to denigrate them in an attempt to cause social unrest and class warfare, which they have succeeded and we can clearly see that result in your posts.

    Oh, and I am posting as an American and not as a partisan.

    SMH
    Sticks and stones may break my bones, you know the rest... I never said the border was closed. I said it is no more open than it always has been. Don't put words in my mouth.

    If you would like a list of CEOs that profit from undocumented immigrants, it would take a good portion of this week to put that together. Just think construction, food processing/retail/production, agriculture, construction, hospitality, and manufacturing. Please point out one thing I said that was factually untrue. It is not 100% bs (maybe it's closer to 50/50). SMH
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  2. #5852
    Registered User Jbizzlechizzle's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Fishman15 View Post
    A vaccine gives you immunity from a disease. You have fallen for the propaganda hook, line, and sinker. Just look at the new cases of the trendy new scariant omicron. Pretty sure most all of the cases here are with fully vaccinated people. #science??? Just fckn wow...

    Your other comments aren't worth my time addressing...
    It would be great to get back the 15 seconds it took to read/respond to this useless post. I'll carry on.
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  3. #5853
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    Originally Posted by mtpockets View Post
    ftr, i will be using this until the end of time, as always....on spread
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  4. #5854
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    Originally Posted by Jbizzlechizzle View Post
    Sticks and stones may break my bones, you know the rest... I never said the border was closed. I said it is no more open than it always has been. Don't put words in my mouth.

    If you would like a list of CEOs that profit from undocumented immigrants, it would take a good portion of this week to put that together. Just think construction, food processing/retail/production, agriculture, construction, hospitality, and manufacturing. Please point out one thing I said that was factually untrue. It is not 100% bs (maybe it's closer to 50/50). SMH
    Sticks and stones? No racism. I did not call you a name and I did not insult you. I just disagreed with everything you said.

    But, yes, companies hire illegals. But, the context that you claim, as in "rich CEOs," is an example of stoking division and class warfare and is dishonest.

    I don't have to point out what you wrote was untrue. I already said what I needed to say.
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  5. #5855
    In Witness Protection mtpockets's Avatar
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  6. #5856
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    Originally Posted by mtpockets View Post
    fkn lmao, repped
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  7. #5857
    In Witness Protection mtpockets's Avatar
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  8. #5858
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    Originally Posted by Jbizzlechizzle View Post
    1) I'm all for a meaningful conversation and the adoption of useful immigration policies. To be fair, those "immigrants" should have more rights to this land than you or I. Their ancestors are actually from here, but 90 million of them were murdered by the colonizers. 2) I have no problem with the government or private industries mandating vaccines. This has been going on since George Washington. The vaccine isn't fake, no matter what your delusional news outlets or your facebook feed tells you. #science
    If you believe that and own any property, feel free to donate it here. Tribal nations will gladly take your land.

    https://www.doi.gov/buybackprogram/FAQ

    Think critically here for a second though - how did they get that land? By fighting and conquering other tribes.

    Take a recent Microsoft video. They start the video by saying "First, we want to acknowledge that the land where the Microsoft campus is situated was traditionally occupied by the Sammamish, Duwamish, Snoqualmie, Suquamish, Muckleshoot, Snohomish, the Tulalip, and other coast Salish people since time immemorial — a people who are still continuing to honor and bring to light their ancient heritage."

    The Microsoft campus is only about 500 acres. Were 7+ tribes really living in harmony on 500 acres of land?

    Literally every single society existing today was built off of victory and conquest.
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  9. #5859
    Registered User LWW's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Jbizzlechizzle View Post
    1) I'm all for a meaningful conversation and the adoption of useful immigration policies. To be fair, those "immigrants" should have more rights to this land than you or I. Their ancestors are actually from here, but 90 million of them were murdered by the colonizers. 2) I have no problem with the government or private industries mandating vaccines. This has been going on since George Washington. The vaccine isn't fake, no matter what your delusional news outlets or your facebook feed tells you. #science
    There are immigrants that would most likely take any vaccine just to get into this country. Politics plays a major role in the virus, the politicians need it to get elected so they really don't care if immigrants are coming in with the virus, what Biden did for air travel from SA was just a pony show.

    Why do you care if someone does not want to get vaccinated, get your vax and throw your ****ing fist in the air, pound your chest and shout "I'm VAXED, I'm AWESOME" and STFU about anyone else. You are now protected, so STFU
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  10. #5860
    Formerly grouchyjarhead GrouchyUSMC's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by LWW View Post
    Why do you care if someone does not want to get vaccinated, get your vax and throw your ****ing fist in the air, pound your chest and shout "I'm VAXED, I'm AWESOME" and STFU about anyone else. You are now protected, so STFU
    Personal observation, and from a guy whose opinion doesn't mean a whole lot, but...

    Think about society today, especially in terms of social media. We see something terrible. Sad face, "Thoughts and prayers", "You got this!", maybe an inspirational meme, and move on to the next thing feeling good about ourselves because we're "helping". We tell people going through tragedies "Let me know if you need anything", instead of offering to do things for them because now the burden is on the other person, which we know will never be taken up by them because they have lots of other **** to do. We are all about superficial pats on the back and showing how awesome we are on social media. We only care about what we see in our news feed, because that's what we are told to care about. As you're reading this post, people are being murdered, raped, falsely imprisoned, etc. all over the world and you don't care because you don't know their plight so you can't care about them.

    Now here's a pandemic. Just by wearing a mask, parroting what the government says, and showing off your vaccination card - you're considered a hero! You don't have to do anything special, which is great for the average person because they wouldn't do anything special anyways. You are brave for following the herd, doing what needs to be done "for the good of everyone", and admonishing others to get in line and comply. The crazy people who don't fall in line just want everyone to die, they're completely unreasonable, that's what the government says at least. It's brave to be swept along by the current, just listen to the news and agree with whatever they say.

    Obviously not everyone fits neatly into this mold, but a majority of them will.
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  11. #5861
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    Originally Posted by GrouchyUSMC View Post
    Personal observation, and from a guy whose opinion doesn't mean a whole lot, but...

    Think about society today, especially in terms of social media. We see something terrible. Sad face, "Thoughts and prayers", "You got this!", maybe an inspirational meme, and move on to the next thing feeling good about ourselves because we're "helping". We tell people going through tragedies "Let me know if you need anything", instead of offering to do things for them because now the burden is on the other person, which we know will never be taken up by them because they have lots of other **** to do. We are all about superficial pats on the back and showing how awesome we are on social media. We only care about what we see in our news feed, because that's what we are told to care about. As you're reading this post, people are being murdered, raped, falsely imprisoned, etc. all over the world and you don't care because you don't know their plight so you can't care about them.

    Now here's a pandemic. Just by wearing a mask, parroting what the government says, and showing off your vaccination card - you're considered a hero! You don't have to do anything special, which is great for the average person because they wouldn't do anything special anyways. You are brave for following the herd, doing what needs to be done "for the good of everyone", and admonishing others to get in line and comply. The crazy people who don't fall in line just want everyone to die, they're completely unreasonable, that's what the government says at least. It's brave to be swept along by the current, just listen to the news and agree with whatever they say.

    Obviously not everyone fits neatly into this mold, but a majority of them will.
    Very true. In the grand scheme of things, the majority of people do little to help society or even their own circle. And the more polarized we become the less we want to help or even listen to the other half of the population. Likely, all by design.
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  12. #5862
    Registered User Jbizzlechizzle's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Mark1T View Post
    Sticks and stones? No racism. I did not call you a name and I did not insult you. I just disagreed with everything you said.

    But, yes, companies hire illegals. But, the context that you claim, as in "rich CEOs," is an example of stoking division and class warfare and is dishonest.

    I don't have to point out what you wrote was untrue. I already said what I needed to say.
    You won't point out anything that is untrue because you can't. There has been class warfare against the middle class since the 70's and 80's. The middle class used to own about 50% of the wealth in the US, it's now like 26% (top 1% of families have 27%). 19% of families live in poverty due to low wages, but we b!tch and moan about them being on welfare. That's what happens when you break up unions and create trade deals that send manufacturing and other industries overseas like we've been doing since those precious neo-liberal 80s. lol Let's avoid paying taxes and hire cheap labor with no representation. That's the American way!
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  13. #5863
    Registered User Jbizzlechizzle's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by GrouchyUSMC View Post
    If you believe that and own any property, feel free to donate it here. Tribal nations will gladly take your land.

    https://www.doi.gov/buybackprogram/FAQ

    Think critically here for a second though - how did they get that land? By fighting and conquering other tribes.

    Take a recent Microsoft video. They start the video by saying "First, we want to acknowledge that the land where the Microsoft campus is situated was traditionally occupied by the Sammamish, Duwamish, Snoqualmie, Suquamish, Muckleshoot, Snohomish, the Tulalip, and other coast Salish people since time immemorial — a people who are still continuing to honor and bring to light their ancient heritage."

    The Microsoft campus is only about 500 acres. Were 7+ tribes really living in harmony on 500 acres of land?

    Literally every single society existing today was built off of victory and conquest.
    I'll keep my houses, but thanks. I'll also continue to do the important community work that I do in the town that I live to give back. That's the best I can do for now to make sure I'm able to comfortably retire.

    I'm not too naive to understand that tribes have conflicts and take land from one another. Of course, this has happened throughout history. Colonialism is a different story. Can you name another situation where 1) 90 million natives were killed 2) 50 million slaves died in the slave trade, and those who survived were forced into free labor, and 3) the natives were essentially replaced by colonizers and other immigrants?
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  14. #5864
    Registered User LWW's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by GrouchyUSMC View Post
    Personal observation, and from a guy whose opinion doesn't mean a whole lot, but...

    Think about society today, especially in terms of social media. We see something terrible. Sad face, "Thoughts and prayers", "You got this!", maybe an inspirational meme, and move on to the next thing feeling good about ourselves because we're "helping". We tell people going through tragedies "Let me know if you need anything", instead of offering to do things for them because now the burden is on the other person, which we know will never be taken up by them because they have lots of other **** to do. We are all about superficial pats on the back and showing how awesome we are on social media. We only care about what we see in our news feed, because that's what we are told to care about. As you're reading this post, people are being murdered, raped, falsely imprisoned, etc. all over the world and you don't care because you don't know their plight so you can't care about them.

    Now here's a pandemic. Just by wearing a mask, parroting what the government says, and showing off your vaccination card - you're considered a hero! You don't have to do anything special, which is great for the average person because they wouldn't do anything special anyways. You are brave for following the herd, doing what needs to be done "for the good of everyone", and admonishing others to get in line and comply. The crazy people who don't fall in line just want everyone to die, they're completely unreasonable, that's what the government says at least. It's brave to be swept along by the current, just listen to the news and agree with whatever they say.

    Obviously not everyone fits neatly into this mold, but a majority of them will.


    Yeah but what these people don’t get is, government is not helping anyone. The government stepped in against the public for control and power, they focused on the wrong area as the real people that needed help was nursing homes. The government fuks up, individuals are smarter than government.

    The government looked to closing bars and social places, yet people were safer in those places than the alternative which is household gathering.

    The public looking for government mandates are stupid people, period, stupid!!!
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    Originally Posted by LWW View Post
    There are immigrants that would most likely take any vaccine just to get into this country. Politics plays a major role in the virus, the politicians need it to get elected so they really don't care if immigrants are coming in with the virus, what Biden did for air travel from SA was just a pony show.

    Why do you care if someone does not want to get vaccinated, get your vax and throw your ****ing fist in the air, pound your chest and shout "I'm VAXED, I'm AWESOME" and STFU about anyone else. You are now protected, so STFU
    I will not STFU. I'm not mad at anyone that is not unvaccinated. It's just my personal belief and understanding that if we had more people vaccinated, there would be less suffering and death and I believe the science proves this out. People are entitled to make their own choices. The virus was politicized and mismanaged from day 1 and I think we can all agree on that.
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    Originally Posted by Fishman15 View Post
    A vaccine gives you immunity from a disease. You have fallen for the propaganda hook, line, and sinker. Just look at the new cases of the trendy new scariant omicron. Pretty sure most all of the cases here are with fully vaccinated people. #science???
    A vaccine increases your immunity TO a disease or infection, not FROM a disease or infection. To say FROM implies the infectious agent can't touch you, as if you are getting diplomatic immunity and the cops can't touch you. That's not now it works. There has never been a vaccine that actually prevents infection. They aren't force fields. They do increase your immunity to the infectious agent, but you're still going to get infected any time you get a significant exposure to that agent. Whether or not your body can respond quickly and effectively enough to prevent any noticeable symptoms will depend on both the level of exposure you have to the infectious agent and your immune system. A vaccine gives you a head start on the processes involved in eliminating an infectious agent from your body.

    Also, be aware of the simple math... . if you expose 100 people to a virus after 70% of them are vaccinated, and half of your unvaccinated population gets sick, and a quarter of your vaccinated population gets sick, guess what, you have more sick people who are vaccinated than who are unvaccinated. It doesn't mean the vaccine didn't work.

    And in the case of COVID 19 and the delta variant, if those older vaccinated individuals have less severe illnesses than the younger unvaccinated individuals, it does demonstrates the benefit of giving your immune system a head start.

    There's no conspiracy here, just politics, missteps and a lot information that was disseminated in a clumsy or confusing manner. Get a vaccine, don't get a vaccine, doesn't matter to me what choice you make. I just hope you can make a choice based on the facts and not based on incorrect information or a misunderstanding.
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    Originally Posted by JustTheDad View Post
    A vaccine increases your immunity TO a disease or infection, not FROM a disease or infection. To say FROM implies the infectious agent can't touch you, as if you are getting diplomatic immunity and the cops can't touch you. That's not now it works. There has never been a vaccine that actually prevents infection. They aren't force fields. They do increase your immunity to the infectious agent, but you're still going to get infected any time you get a significant exposure to that agent. Whether or not your body can respond quickly and effectively enough to prevent any noticeable symptoms will depend on both the level of exposure you have to the infectious agent and your immune system. A vaccine gives you a head start on the processes involved in eliminating an infectious agent from your body.

    Also, be aware of the simple math... . if you expose 100 people to a virus after 70% of them are vaccinated, and half of your unvaccinated population gets sick, and a quarter of your vaccinated population gets sick, guess what, you have more sick people who are vaccinated than who are unvaccinated. It doesn't mean the vaccine didn't work.

    And in the case of COVID 19 and the delta variant, if those older vaccinated individuals have less severe illnesses than the younger unvaccinated individuals, it does demonstrates the benefit of giving your immune system a head start.

    There's no conspiracy here, just politics, missteps and a lot information that was disseminated in a clumsy or confusing manner. Get a vaccine, don't get a vaccine, doesn't matter to me what choice you make. I just hope you can make a choice based on the facts and not based on incorrect information or a misunderstanding.
    The best explanation i have read thus far on this topic!
    Bravo.
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    High Plains Lifter Mark1T's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Jbizzlechizzle View Post
    Sticks and stones may break my bones, you know the rest... I never said the border was closed. I said it is no more open than it always has been. Don't put words in my mouth.

    If you would like a list of CEOs that profit from undocumented immigrants, it would take a good portion of this week to put that together. Just think construction, food processing/retail/production, agriculture, construction, hospitality, and manufacturing. Please point out one thing I said that was factually untrue. It is not 100% bs (maybe it's closer to 50/50). SMH
    Originally Posted by Jbizzlechizzle View Post
    There's a lot to be said about the healthcare system in the US and practically none of it is good due to it's for profit nature that sucks money up to CEOs and away from our health. The last time I checked the US was like 37th in the world in healthcare outcomes. Remember when the last president promised affordable healthcare, a wall to keep out illegals, and a tax code that could be simplified to a piece of paper? How did all that go? Healthcare would be so much simpler with a single payer system like Medicare, but right wing media and propaganda has fooled so many people into thinking the capitalistic nature of our healthcare system is #1, when it actually sucks azz.

    The libertarian crew wants to privatize everything except for roads, bridges, and the military. It's already underway. Who needs gubmint? lol... Government done right can be a great thing. The problem is the wealthy who are leaching off of the system and the systematic erosion of the middle class. Wake up people. This has been the downfall of every great civilization. Read a book. We're sitting here fighting amongst ourselves when the real enemies are building spacecraft and have $100M yachts. In the US we're all one serious injury or illness away from medical bankruptcy, but our system is #1, right? What a joke.

    Oh, and the boarders are just as open as they've always been. How do you think all of the rich CEOs in the South get their cheap labor. Nobody really wants the boarders closed, but it's just another way to create outrage. A bunch of unvaccinated people screaming about immigrants spreading covid is very, very rich.
    Originally Posted by Jbizzlechizzle View Post
    You won't point out anything that is untrue because you can't. There has been class warfare against the middle class since the 70's and 80's. The middle class used to own about 50% of the wealth in the US, it's now like 26% (top 1% of families have 27%). 19% of families live in poverty due to low wages, but we b!tch and moan about them being on welfare. That's what happens when you break up unions and create trade deals that send manufacturing and other industries overseas like we've been doing since those precious neo-liberal 80s. lol Let's avoid paying taxes and hire cheap labor with no representation. That's the American way!
    All of your posts wreak of far left ideology, i.e. "rich people, CEOs, big government, the wealthy, etc."

    The border was under control and not open under the previous administration. Now, it is in free-fall with over 600,000 got-aways since January 2021.

    Instead of answering on topic, you go into these far left diatribes that cancel out your opinions. Big government is good? How is crime going in the big cities? You going to blame that on Trump?

    The media poisons people like you and you soak it all in, as the media creates class warfare, the Russia hoax for fours years was promoted from the top of our government on down for four years and you believed all of it and since it was about Trump, it's all ok for you and the entire American public to be lied to. This is not about Trump. It is about our government.

    The Russia Hoax has been debunked, so now the media like MSNBC has shifted to promoting hate by making most of their programming about race and racism, trying their best to create false racism narratives 24/7. Again, you are soaking in the Marxist principles that are being fed to us by groups like MSNBC and all NBC affiliates and most of the networks, including the money of George Soros and the like who fund mayoral campaigns in cities like LA, with no other intention but to destroy the lives of all its citizens.

    Now, you are against capitalism. OMG, how this thread has gone off the rails. You want government handouts, all power to you. I make my own path by creating opportunity - not looking for someone to hand me just enough to pay my bills and give me food stamps.

    BTW, how do you like those gas prices? Our energy independence has been destroyed and now we are begging OPEC for oil imports Tens of thousands of good jobs eliminated because of unrealistic ideology. Our enemies China and Russia are laughing.

    BTW, nothing wrong with left politics. I am referring to far left. Far right is destructive, as well.
    Last edited by Mark1T; 12-08-2021 at 09:53 AM.
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    Originally Posted by mtpockets View Post
    Guess they will have to say "Hello from the other side"
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    Originally Posted by Mark1T View Post
    All of your posts wreak of far left ideology, i.e. "rich people, CEOs, big government, the wealthy, etc."

    The border was under control and not open under the previous administration. Now, it is in free-fall with over 600,000 got-aways since January 2021.

    Instead of answering on topic, you go into these far left diatribes that cancel out your opinions. Big government is good? How is crime going in the big cities? You going to blame that on Trump?

    The media poisons people like you and you soak it all in, as the media creates class warfare, the Russia hoax for fours years was promoted from the top of our government on down for four years and you believed all of it and since it was about Trump, it's all ok for you and the entire American public to be lied to. This is not about Trump. It is about our government.

    The Russia Hoax has been debunked, so now the media like MSNBC has shifted to promoting hate by making most of their programming about race and racism, trying their best to create false racism narratives 24/7. Again, you are soaking in the Marxist principles that are being fed to us by groups like MSNBC and all NBC affiliates and most of the networks, including the money of George Soros and the like who fund mayoral campaigns in cities like LA, with no other intention but to destroy the lives of all its citizens.

    Now, you are against capitalism. OMG, how this thread has gone off the rails. You want government handouts, all power to you. I make my own path by creating opportunity - not looking for someone to hand me just enough to pay my bills and give me food stamps.

    BTW, how do you like those gas prices? Our energy independence has been destroyed and now we are begging OPEC for oil imports Tens of thousands of good jobs eliminated because of unrealistic ideology. Our enemies China and Russia are laughing.

    BTW, nothing wrong with left politics. I am referring to far left. Far right is destructive, as well.
    I watch as much Fox News as I do MSNBC and I don't watch either of them much. You sound like a far right neo-liberal and everything you just stated sounds like a Tucker Carlson, OAN, or NewsMax opening rant. I actually read books, I've been studying history for a couple of years now. I don't get my news from one source. I'm a free thinker. I would like to live in a better society.

    I've been doing nothing but posting truth-burgers. If you understood politics around the world, you would understand that even the most conservative countries in the world have political views more similar to the US Democratic party. Our Right-wing is so far right, it's bordering on authoritarianism (Jan 6th anyone). I'm not a Marxist. I believe in a social democracy, not a system where we completely punish and erode the middle class at all costs. Without a strong middle class and the elimination of poverty, we're doomed. Capitalism done right is ok by me, but if we're going to continue the trickle down economics thinking we're going to end up with a crazy right-wing king that will never relinquish power. Corporations have too much power politically. Remove the corporate bribery from politics and we'll get back to where we need to be politically in this country, but many are too blind to see it. Money has always been the root of all evil.

    So, I assume, you think the country is just fine on it's current path? What would you do to improve society? I'm honestly curious because I haven't heard any new ideas from the right since the 80s and most of those ideas are why we're in the situation we're in today.

    Anyway, back to the vaccine talk (after your response of course).
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    Originally Posted by Jbizzlechizzle View Post
    If you understood politics around the world, you would understand that even the most conservative countries in the world have political views more similar to the US Democratic party. Our Right-wing is so far right, it's bordering on authoritarianism (Jan 6th anyone).
    That's an interesting statement. Could you define "Right-wing" ?

    Is that all the republicans in the senate, the most conservative 3 or 4, the ones that supported Trump, the ones who don't want to spend more than the government takes in, or the ones you don't like?

    And when you say the rest of the world is more like our democratic party, do you mean in Western Europe? If you do, are you going to ignore the Lega party in Italy, AfD in Germany, Front National in France, SVP in Switzerland, and Hungary? Or were you considering N. Korea, China, Russia and all those liberal governments in Africa too?

    Just curious
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    According to PEW research there are 9 types in the usa

    https://www.pewresearch.org/politics...al-typology-2/

    The only typology group without a clear partisan orientation – Stressed Sideliners – also is the group with the lowest level of political engagement. Stressed Sideliners, who make up 15% of the public but constituted just 10% of voters in 2020, have a mix of conservative and liberal views but are largely defined by their minimal interest in politics.
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    Originally Posted by Jbizzlechizzle View Post
    I will not STFU. I'm not mad at anyone that is not unvaccinated. It's just my personal belief and understanding that if we had more people vaccinated, there would be less suffering and death and I believe the science proves this out. People are entitled to make their own choices. The virus was politicized and mismanaged from day 1 and I think we can all agree on that.

    Well too bad you are wrong. You know I know you are wrong because I personally know dozens of people that had Covid and aren’t vaccinated and there was no suffering and death. Now those folks didn’t need a mandated vaccine, thier older relatives may want to be more careful.

    You gonna find out the hard way that mandating medince to make the world feel better is dangerous practice.

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    Originally Posted by LWW View Post
    Well too bad you are wrong. You know I know you are wrong because I personally know dozens of people that had Covid and aren’t vaccinated and there was no suffering and death. Now those folks didn’t need a mandated vaccine, thier older relatives may want to be more careful.

    You gonna find out the hard way that mandating medince to make the world feel better is dangerous practice.

    The Baltimore streets are no safer with Brandon Scott preeching!

    Originally Posted by LWW View Post
    I’m an expert.

    their

    medicine

    preaching



    How's that expert thing going squirt? Too bad their isn't a vaccine for spelling and grammar
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    Originally Posted by JustTheDad View Post
    That's an interesting statement. Could you define "Right-wing" ?

    Is that all the republicans in the senate, the most conservative 3 or 4, the ones that supported Trump, the ones who don't want to spend more than the government takes in, or the ones you don't like?

    And when you say the rest of the world is more like our democratic party, do you mean in Western Europe? If you do, are you going to ignore the Lega party in Italy, AfD in Germany, Front National in France, SVP in Switzerland, and Hungary? Or were you considering N. Korea, China, Russia and all those liberal governments in Africa too?

    Just curious
    Are you talking about the right-wing that explodes the debt through tax breaks for people who don't need them every time they get the opportunity? It's laughable that anyone thinks they are the party of fiscal responsibility. I probably shouldn't generalize all republicans as right-wing, but I suppose it is anyone who claims to be a "conservative." That probably would mean all of them.

    The US certainly right of the actual democracies in Europe and if we're not careful, we'll end up with an autocracy. Sure, we're right of the communist countries. Nobody in their right mind wants that, imo. I certainly don't. Maybe that's extreme thinking but post-Jan 6, that's how I feel. I'm not referring to countries that are full on authoritarian with fake elections.

    You could already argue we aren't even a democracy anymore since the oligarchs (corporations) are actually setting the policies that impact all of us. You know, since the supreme court ruled that corporations are people and their money is free speech (Citizens United v. FEC legalized corporate bribery). No wonder the US is now, for the first time, considered a backsliding democracy.
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    Originally Posted by LWW View Post
    Well too bad you are wrong. You know I know you are wrong because I personally know dozens of people that had Covid and aren’t vaccinated and there was no suffering and death. Now those folks didn’t need a mandated vaccine, thier older relatives may want to be more careful.

    You gonna find out the hard way that mandating medince to make the world feel better is dangerous practice.

    The Baltimore streets are no safer with Brandon Scott preeching!
    Conservatives love bringing up big cities in their arguments. I know a lot about Baltimore, I live an hour from there and have family there. The city has problems, but guess what, it's mostly a safe and reasonable place outside of a few troubled areas, just like all of the other big cities. Do you have any ideas about how to fix the situation in big cities? I'd love to hear them.

    When talking about places with issues/violence, why don't we ever bring up the rural towns that have been ravaged by poverty and Oxycontin/Fentanyl/Heroin addiction? Because those towns don't fit the narrative and are mostly aligned with right-leaning ideologies. Why don't we do something to fix the school shootings that have killed more children than every military conflict we've been in since the Vietnam war?
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    Originally Posted by x-trainer ben View Post
    According to PEW research there are 9 types in the usa

    https://www.pewresearch.org/politics...al-typology-2/

    The only typology group without a clear partisan orientation – Stressed Sideliners – also is the group with the lowest level of political engagement. Stressed Sideliners, who make up 15% of the public but constituted just 10% of voters in 2020, have a mix of conservative and liberal views but are largely defined by their minimal interest in politics.
    I don't fit in any of their groups, and I don't disagree with JBC on some points. I'm pro-Naturalization.

    I was just pointing out the extremely generalized statement. I let him get away with 50 million slaves dying in the US when I am pretty sure the total global trade was under 5 million. 80,000 died on their way to N. America and under 400,000 were actually brought here. I also ignored the statement implying there were over 90 million Native Americans in the areas that currently make up the US, back in 1492. I think the high estimate I was taught in college was around 20 million, and I remember it got criticized as being politically motivated.

    That said, I do agree this is one of the best countries anybody ever stole. Interestingly, it would have been a lot harder to steal if the native residents had had a few vaccines... .

    Originally Posted by Jbizzlechizzle View Post
    Are you talking about the right-wing that explodes the debt through tax breaks for people who don't need them every time they get the opportunity? It's laughable that anyone thinks they are the party of fiscal responsibility. I probably shouldn't generalize all republicans as right-wing, but I suppose it is anyone who claims to be a "conservative." That probably would mean all of them.

    The US certainly right of the actual democracies in Europe and if we're not careful, we'll end up with an autocracy. Sure, we're right of the communist countries. Nobody in their right mind wants that, imo. I certainly don't. Maybe that's extreme thinking but post-Jan 6, that's how I feel. I'm not referring to countries that are full on authoritarian with fake elections.

    You could already argue we aren't even a democracy anymore since the oligarchs (corporations) are actually setting the policies that impact all of us. You know, since the supreme court ruled that corporations are people and their money is free speech (Citizens United v. FEC legalized corporate bribery). No wonder the US is now, for the first time, considered a backsliding democracy.
    We aren't a true democracy, we're a republic.
    We're decentralized because unlike most of the countries you're describing, a large portion of our population lives more than 200 miles from their capital. Many live thousands of miles away from DC, which is why states have so much power. Article 5... .

    Both parties have run up debt. Debt has run up more during republican control, but they cut taxes faster than new entitlements age out, and we always spend more than we take in. The difference is the democrats want to take and spend more, while the republicans want to take and spend less.

    There seems to be a trend that the longer people work, the less they want to give to the government, so maybe we should set a minimum flat tax and a VAT tax that can cover all sales and services, and then let everyone give what they think is appropriate over that minimum. I'm not rich, but I'm up for that because it seems fair.

    Also, why so worked up over Jan 6th? How many people were actually involved in that out of the 175 million people in our country who would be classified as right of center? That's like condemning a population because 1 person in 60,000 did something wrong and makes me wonder if your opinions are motivated partly by anger and resentment, not by logic or an open mind.

    Editing to add: I'm not trying to be harsh. I actually voted for higher taxes this past election, but you seem to be posting angry, which is like driving angry, and I learned from Ground Hog Day that that's a bad thing!
    Last edited by JustTheDad; 12-08-2021 at 03:20 PM.
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