Will you get vaccinated?

[mtpockets]

[BK909]

Pfizer has been a “habitual offender,” persistently engaging in illegal and corrupt marketing practices, bribing physicians and suppressing adverse trial results. Since 2002 the company and its subsidiaries have been assessed $3 billion in criminal convictions, civil penalties and jury awards.

Scott Gottlieb who resigned as the FDA commissioner is now on the board of Pfizer.
He was replaced by Stephen Hahn who resigned and became Chief medical officer for Moderna.

Pfizer will make 35 billion from the vaccine in 2021.

[mtpockets]

[x-trainer ben]

Pfizer has been a “habitual offender,” persistently engaging in illegal and corrupt marketing practices, bribing physicians and suppressing adverse trial results. Since 2002 the company and its subsidiaries have been assessed $3 billion in criminal convictions, civil penalties and jury awards.

Scott Gottlieb who resigned as the FDA commissioner is now on the board of Pfizer.
He was replaced by Stephen Hahn who resigned and became Chief medical officer for Moderna.

Pfizer will make 35 billion from the vaccine in 2021.

So needless to say you went with J+J or Moderna, correct?

[Plateauplower]

So needless to say you went with J+J or Moderna, correct?

Didn’t J&J try to kill all the babies with asbestos in the baby powder?

[Plateauplower]

Gotta love marketing pharmaceuticals to children.

[mtpockets]

Gotta love marketing pharmaceuticals to children.

Pretty fuked up for sure

[Plateauplower]

I have gotten both moderna, j&j and phizer along with 2 phizer boosters. Gotta stay healthy!

I’d recommend getting some of those Pfizer pills on hand just in case though. They add yet another 90% and they should be ready in just two more weeks.

[Plateauplower]

I'll get those, but first I gotta go to Europe to get the Astrozenica vax and Sputnik V shots too

Let me know how Sputnik is, that’s pretty much what novavaxx will be.

Might add to my papers.

[J.L.C.]

Lol you might want to look at the death stats. More people dead after vaccines were available than before. Real testament to their efficacy. Many of those dying are double vaccinated elderly. Not sure if that counts as fully vaccinated any more or if they should have had a few more, surely that would have worked. Kind of like double/triple masking. Can’t be too safe!

Can you share a link to the source or data? I'd like to take a look.

[Plateauplower]

Can you share a link to the source or data? I'd like to take a look.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/c....htm#SexAndAge

Similar data available for vaccination rates of population based on age.

[J.L.C.]

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/c....htm#SexAndAge

Similar data available for vaccination rates of population based on age.

That link seems to show that covid was a major cause of death across most age groups, especially when compared to influenza.

[x-trainer ben]

Didn’t J&J try to kill all the babies with asbestos in the baby powder?

I think so, and had to switch to corn starch as a replacement.

[x-trainer ben]

Let me know how Sputnik is, that’s pretty much what novavaxx will be.

Might add to my papers.

People there aren't taking it and they just had 2 weeks of lockdowns. Putin is reportedly having the same issues as here with fake stories, vaxx skepticism, and folks spreading rumors and fake solutions.

Romania Ukraine and Russia dealing with Delta now.

[Tdriin]

Let me know how Sputnik is, that’s pretty much what novavaxx will be.

Might add to my papers.

Probably easier to find than the Astra Zeneca. They aren’t used much anymore.

[Plateauplower]

People there aren't taking it and they just had 2 weeks of lockdowns. Putin is reportedly having the same issues as here with fake stories, vaxx skepticism, and folks spreading rumors and fake solutions.

Romania Ukraine and Russia dealing with Delta now.

Yeah saw their numbers were up, didn’t know what their vaccination rates were but those don’t seem to be making much of a difference in places like Singapore. Surprised they don’t trust the Sputnik didn’t that little maniac Puntin inject his daughter with it first or something lol?

Probably easier to find than the Astra Zeneca. They aren’t used much anymore.

UK is highly vaccinated and having large caseloads too, no?

[JustTheDad]

You are talking in circles. Go back and reread. The pool of people who have not been previously infected is shrinking, daily. If people have long term immunity from the vaccines, why does the length of time matter since they were vaccinated matter? They were literally released this year. Is 5-8 months your idea of what long-term immunity is? No, reinfection is not common, breakthrough cases in people who had not been infected are though. Finally, I agree that the vaccine does appear offer some protection from bad outcomes for high risk populations. How much and for how long is anyone's guess, it probably depends a lot on the individuals conditions, medical treatments, immune system etc. The same people who are dying from covid while being fully vaccinated are the same people who would have died from covid without the vaccine. I guess just be sure you get our booster every 6 months....

Came back from a vacation and look at you, PlateauPlower, totally slacking off in your responses

Immunity vs cross immunity.
Current vaccines aren't polyvalent.
I'm holding out until there's an approved delta variant mRNA vaccine/polyvalent booster.

Until then, however, having a high antibody titer to the original spike protein is still better than just being able to mount an anamnestic response to the alpha variant when you get the delta variant. Doesn't matter how you got your original ab boost to the alpha variant, if your neutralizing ab levels are waning and you're at a high risk, a booster will help tide you over until you get antibodies to delta.

If you have antibodies to delta already, a shot will give you antibodies and an anamnestic response to the original strain. No clue as to how much additional protection that offers anyone.

There are a lot of nuances. I think a vaccine mandate for the alpha strain vaccines when we're seeing more delta is stupid and counterproductive. It looks like the current vaccines do decrease your risk of getting infected with delta, but it's possible, and likely, that it's only while you have high neutralizing Ab levels. After those wane, you're only protected against a bad outcome.
Time for the democrats to give up on that. They're not dramatically increasing public safety for their supporters who are already vaccinated, so let the people who don't want to vaccine and are willing to accept the risk, to decline it.

The question I have is whether companies and the government should have to provide a death benefits if you decline the vaccine and die from COVID. If the government says vaccination is required not to keep your job, but to be eligible for a death or disability benefit for any complications related to COVID, that would seem reasonable to me. Those benefits are expensive. I thought of this because I saw something on my phone's news feed about death benefits being denied to unvaccinated employees. I'll read it later.

edit:
https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/03/healt...ner/index.html

[mtpockets]

[Tommy W.]

[Plateauplower]

Came back from a vacation and look at you, PlateauPlower, totally slacking off in your responses

Immunity vs cross immunity.
Current vaccines aren't polyvalent.
I'm holding out until there's an approved delta variant mRNA vaccine/polyvalent booster.

Until then, however, having a high antibody titer to the original spike protein is still better than just being able to mount an anamnestic response to the alpha variant when you get the delta variant. Doesn't matter how you got your original ab boost to the alpha variant, if your neutralizing ab levels are waning and you're at a high risk, a booster will help tide you over until you get antibodies to delta.

If you have antibodies to delta already, a shot will give you antibodies and an anamnestic response to the original strain. No clue as to how much additional protection that offers anyone.

There are a lot of nuances. I think a vaccine mandate for the alpha strain vaccines when we're seeing more delta is stupid and counterproductive. It looks like the current vaccines do decrease your risk of getting infected with delta, but it's possible, and likely, that it's only while you have high neutralizing Ab levels. After those wane, you're only protected against a bad outcome.
Time for the democrats to give up on that. They're not dramatically increasing public safety for their supporters who are already vaccinated, so let the people who don't want to vaccine and are willing to accept the risk, to decline it.

The question I have is whether companies and the government should have to provide a death benefits if you decline the vaccine and die from COVID. If the government says vaccination is required not to keep your job, but to be eligible for a death or disability benefit for any complications related to COVID, that would seem reasonable to me. Those benefits are expensive. I thought of this because I saw something on my phone's news feed about death benefits being denied to unvaccinated employees. I'll read it later.

edit:
https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/03/healt...ner/index.html

I have a long response but I keep getting access denied when I try to post it.

I agree on the death benefits but it would need to apply only to those freely choosing to not be vaxxed (I.e shouldn’t apply to legit medical exemptions).

OSHA is not the way, any mandate should be through Congress and HHS - CDC/FDA.

Post-infection immunity from alpha seems to be holding up well to delta, so if the “jabs” are helping to keep people from dying while achieving post-infection immunity, yay. Seems like there is still an awful lot of death in vaccinated people to call it a huge victory. The real world data just doesn’t seem to be there. I believe studies show an increased immune response, but that doesn’t seem to be correlating as well as it should.

I’m now vaccinated due to political pressure, and partly so I can not seem as much of a gramma killing wing-nut if I have to present evidence of why the OSHA ETS is a crock of $hit (among other reasons).

[mtpockets]

[JustTheDad]

Post-infection immunity from alpha seems to be holding up well to delta, so if the “jabs” are helping to keep people from dying while achieving post-infection immunity, yay. Seems like there is still an awful lot of death in vaccinated people to call it a huge victory. The real world data just doesn’t seem to be there. I believe studies show an increased immune response, but that doesn’t seem to be correlating as well as it should.

Ab levels would seem to go: Infection, Moderna, Pfizer which makes sense given the amount of exposure to the spike protein you get from each. I don't know where the J&J vaccine or the post booster groups fit in, but a reduction in hospitalizations and bad outcomes of 70-90% from a vaccine, especially one to a different variant, doesn't seem bad to me, and that's what I typically see as the current reduction.

[BK909]

Oh, I bet many aren't being truthful and using the exemption as an excuse.

This guy is the problem, a living breathing barrier to freedom.
You can't be American.

Enjoy your boosters pha***

[mtpockets]

This guy is the problem, a living breathing barrier to freedom.
You can't be American.

Enjoy your boosters pha***

Very mature response, Because I said " Oh, I bet many aren't being truthful and using the exemption as an excuse."

I am a problem? Explain that to me.

How am I a barrier to freedom?

How does that make me not an American?

Show me how you are connecting the dots here

[Plateauplower]

Ab levels would seem to go: Infection, Moderna, Pfizer which makes sense given the amount of exposure to the spike protein you get from each. I don't know where the J&J vaccine or the post booster groups fit in, but a reduction in hospitalizations and bad outcomes of 70-90% from a vaccine, especially one to a different variant, doesn't seem bad to me, and that's what I typically see as the current reduction.

Really?! You are seeing that much reduction in bad outcomes? It seems like the elderly population is highly vaccinated 90% or better, and we are still seeing high rates of death from covid. Those deaths don’t seem to have transferred to younger lower risk populations (who are less vaccinated) that I’ve noticed. It almost seems like the 90% effective at preventing bad outcomes is right up there with 90% immune and just two weeks to flatten the curve. The vaccines are not going to have much of an impact on younger healthy lower risk populations because they weren’t dying from covid before vaccines, at least not at the rates of elderly or high risk due to comorbidities.

[J.L.C.]

Delta did seem to be sending an increasing number of younger people to hospital and it looks like that trend reversed with vaccination rollouts, at least where I am.

[BK909]

Very mature response, Because I said " Oh, I bet many aren't being truthful and using the exemption as an excuse."

I am a problem? Explain that to me.

How am I a barrier to freedom?

How does that make me not an American?

Show me how you are connecting the dots here

What business of yours is the religion of others?

[mtpockets]

What business of yours is the religion of others?

Answer the questions I asked you

Because I said " Oh, I bet many aren't being truthful and using the exemption as an excuse."

I am a problem? Explain that to me.

How am I a barrier to freedom?

How does that make me not an American?

Show me how you are connecting the dots here

[Plateauplower]

Delta did seem to be sending an increasing number of younger people to hospital and it looks like that trend reversed with vaccination rollouts, at least where I am.

Oh for kids, yeah, bottom really fell out of the scourge of disease since what, Saturday? The 300 or so that have died of other causes since the pandemic began, while testing positive for COVID within 30 days of their death, have really missed out on those “big bird approved” doses.

[J.L.C.]

Oh for kids, yeah, bottom really fell out of the scourge of disease since what, Saturday? The 300 or so that have died of other causes since the pandemic began, while testing positive for COVID within 30 days of their death, have really missed out on those “big bird approved” doses.

I was thinking more along the lines of people under 50. But that might be because I want to think of myself as "younger".