Reply
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 31
  1. #1
    Registered User RapidFail's Avatar
    Join Date: Oct 2018
    Age: 51
    Posts: 932
    Rep Power: 5259
    RapidFail is a name known to all. (+5000) RapidFail is a name known to all. (+5000) RapidFail is a name known to all. (+5000) RapidFail is a name known to all. (+5000) RapidFail is a name known to all. (+5000) RapidFail is a name known to all. (+5000) RapidFail is a name known to all. (+5000) RapidFail is a name known to all. (+5000) RapidFail is a name known to all. (+5000) RapidFail is a name known to all. (+5000) RapidFail is a name known to all. (+5000)
    RapidFail is offline

    Most fatiguing compound lifts

    Out of the following compound lifts, which do you find the most fatiguing? You can answer this based on set-to-set fatigue, time to recover (set to set and workout to workout) or any combination of these.

    Back Squat
    Bench Press
    Barbell Row
    Deadlift
    Chin Up/Pull Up
    OHP

    For me it's:

    1. Back Squat
    2. Deadlift
    3. Chin Up
    4. OHP
    5. Row
    6. Bench Press

    I know most people tend to find deadlifts the most fatiguing, but I've always found squats to be far worse. My deadlift is nearly 50% heavier than my squat too. I've found I get more of a sweat up deadlifting, but squats have me more out of breath, nauseated and light headed when I go close to failure, more DOMS too, particularly in the quads.
    Age: 36
    Height: 185cm (6'1")
    Weight: 77.4kg (171lb)

    Personal best lifts
    Bench - 6 x 62.5kg (138lb), 16 x 50kg (110lb)
    Bent Over Row - 5 x 67.5kg (149lb), 10 x 60kg (132lb)
    Front squat - 8 x 60kg (132lb)
    Back squat - 5 x 72.5kg (160lb), 9 x 67.5kg (149lb)
    RDL - 9 x 85kg (187lb), 11 x 82.5kg (182lb)
    Deadlift - 6 x 97.5kg (215lb), 9 x 90kg (198lb)
    Overhead Press - 6 x 40kg (88lb)
    Chin Ups - 7 x bodyweight + 10kg (22lb), 13 x bodyweight
    Reply With Quote

  2. #2
    Time is Muscle ECGordyn's Avatar
    Join Date: Sep 2016
    Location: Chiang Mai, Thailand
    Posts: 2,172
    Rep Power: 15394
    ECGordyn is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) ECGordyn is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) ECGordyn is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) ECGordyn is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) ECGordyn is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) ECGordyn is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) ECGordyn is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) ECGordyn is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) ECGordyn is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) ECGordyn is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) ECGordyn is a splendid one to behold. (+10000)
    ECGordyn is offline
    Deadlift
    Squat
    Barbell row
    OHP?
    Bench
    Chins

    OHP has a ? because this year I haven't trained it seriously, but in the past a few monster sets of OHP always required the most freshness and always drained me the most.

    Edit: Maybe including stats would add useful context? Best lifts:
    DL 195 x 1 (June 2020)
    Squat 180 x 1 (Sept 2020)
    Row 115 x 5 (July 2019) ; 107 x 10 (May 2019)
    OHP 77 x 6 (Oct 2018) ; 68 x 10 (Oct 2018)
    Bench 135 x 1 (Sept 2020)
    2020 maxes
    Squat 185
    Bench 137
    DL 205
    bw 88.5 age 43

    Currently cutting, workout journal: https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=175647011&p=1626795193&viewfull=1#post1626795193
    Reply With Quote

  3. #3
    CEO 10k/year Ironface's Avatar
    Join Date: Jan 2013
    Posts: 6,337
    Rep Power: 9541
    Ironface is a name known to all. (+5000) Ironface is a name known to all. (+5000) Ironface is a name known to all. (+5000) Ironface is a name known to all. (+5000) Ironface is a name known to all. (+5000) Ironface is a name known to all. (+5000) Ironface is a name known to all. (+5000) Ironface is a name known to all. (+5000) Ironface is a name known to all. (+5000) Ironface is a name known to all. (+5000) Ironface is a name known to all. (+5000)
    Ironface is offline
    ^I hope those are KGs 😂

    And yeah, same for me. DL, squat, row, OHP, bench, pull/chins
    *Deadlifts pants after taking a chit crew*
    *Typos can go fucl themselves crew*
    *Nice miscer crew*
    *Loves reps, hates negs crew*
    *Faps before workout crew*
    *12+ hours of sleep crew*
    *Faps during workout crew*
    *Hates onions crew*
    *Faps after workout crew*
    *No fap crew*
    Reply With Quote

  4. #4
    Rows Could've Saved Jack Camarija's Avatar
    Join Date: Dec 2012
    Location: Dubai, United Arab Emirates
    Posts: 547
    Rep Power: 12043
    Camarija is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) Camarija is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) Camarija is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) Camarija is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) Camarija is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) Camarija is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) Camarija is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) Camarija is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) Camarija is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) Camarija is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) Camarija is a splendid one to behold. (+10000)
    Camarija is offline
    Assuming similar intensity:

    1. Deadlift (Current Max ~455 lbs)
    It'd be the most dangerous to go hulk mode on deadlifts more often than any other exercise here IMO

    2. Barbell Overhead Press (Current Max ~ 160 lbs)
    In general, my AC joint can't take much of a direct beating, so I'd maybe limit OHP to once a week now. More of a rotator cuff thing

    3. Barbell Row (Current Max ~ ???)
    This fries my back from lower to upper, can't do it too often without it affecting my big lifts so instead I just use chest supported rows

    4. Back Squat (Current Max ~ 360 lbs)
    I can squat heavy to moderately heavy 3 to 4 times a week

    5. Bench Press (Current Max ~ 265 lbs)
    I can bench 4 times a week heavy to moderately heavy

    6. Chin Up/Pull Up (Current Max ~ ???)
    I do body weight wide grip neutral pull ups basically every day

    I know Mike Israetel discusses fatigue levels for different exercises, I wonder if he has some sort of system developed to categorize exercise types based on fatigue by now
    ► Calgary Barbell 8 Week ► Training Age: 9 Months ► Goal: Big 3 + Bulk
    ► https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=179108161
    ► Progress Pictures
    ► https://i.ibb.co/r6RKF4p/Progress-Pictures.png
    Reply With Quote

  5. #5
    Time is Muscle ECGordyn's Avatar
    Join Date: Sep 2016
    Location: Chiang Mai, Thailand
    Posts: 2,172
    Rep Power: 15394
    ECGordyn is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) ECGordyn is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) ECGordyn is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) ECGordyn is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) ECGordyn is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) ECGordyn is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) ECGordyn is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) ECGordyn is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) ECGordyn is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) ECGordyn is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) ECGordyn is a splendid one to behold. (+10000)
    ECGordyn is offline
    Originally Posted by Ironface View Post
    ^I hope those are KGs

    And yeah, same for me. DL, squat, row, OHP, bench, pull/chins
    Grams bruh. Am I weak?
    2020 maxes
    Squat 185
    Bench 137
    DL 205
    bw 88.5 age 43

    Currently cutting, workout journal: https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=175647011&p=1626795193&viewfull=1#post1626795193
    Reply With Quote

  6. #6
    Registered User RapidFail's Avatar
    Join Date: Oct 2018
    Age: 51
    Posts: 932
    Rep Power: 5259
    RapidFail is a name known to all. (+5000) RapidFail is a name known to all. (+5000) RapidFail is a name known to all. (+5000) RapidFail is a name known to all. (+5000) RapidFail is a name known to all. (+5000) RapidFail is a name known to all. (+5000) RapidFail is a name known to all. (+5000) RapidFail is a name known to all. (+5000) RapidFail is a name known to all. (+5000) RapidFail is a name known to all. (+5000) RapidFail is a name known to all. (+5000)
    RapidFail is offline
    Interesting that everyone has pulls/chins as the least fatiguing so far. For me they're #3 after squats and Deadlifts, but I treat them as a major compound lift (weighted and done in the same rep ranges) and I can strict chin up much more than I can squat. In terms of total muscle mass used, chins should be ahead of bench and maybe OHP too, I would have thought.

    In terms of rest times between sets I find I need:

    Squat - 3 mins
    Deadlift - 3 mins
    Chin Ups - 3 mins
    Bench - 2 mins 30
    OHP - 2 mins 30
    Row - 2 mins (but I tend to do these for higher reps, would probably be longer if I did them heavier)
    Last edited by RapidFail; 11-20-2020 at 08:04 PM.
    Age: 36
    Height: 185cm (6'1")
    Weight: 77.4kg (171lb)

    Personal best lifts
    Bench - 6 x 62.5kg (138lb), 16 x 50kg (110lb)
    Bent Over Row - 5 x 67.5kg (149lb), 10 x 60kg (132lb)
    Front squat - 8 x 60kg (132lb)
    Back squat - 5 x 72.5kg (160lb), 9 x 67.5kg (149lb)
    RDL - 9 x 85kg (187lb), 11 x 82.5kg (182lb)
    Deadlift - 6 x 97.5kg (215lb), 9 x 90kg (198lb)
    Overhead Press - 6 x 40kg (88lb)
    Chin Ups - 7 x bodyweight + 10kg (22lb), 13 x bodyweight
    Reply With Quote

  7. #7
    CEO 10k/year Ironface's Avatar
    Join Date: Jan 2013
    Posts: 6,337
    Rep Power: 9541
    Ironface is a name known to all. (+5000) Ironface is a name known to all. (+5000) Ironface is a name known to all. (+5000) Ironface is a name known to all. (+5000) Ironface is a name known to all. (+5000) Ironface is a name known to all. (+5000) Ironface is a name known to all. (+5000) Ironface is a name known to all. (+5000) Ironface is a name known to all. (+5000) Ironface is a name known to all. (+5000) Ironface is a name known to all. (+5000)
    Ironface is offline
    Originally Posted by RapidFail View Post
    In terms of total muscle mass used, chins should be ahead of bench and maybe OHP too, I would have thought.
    I’d proooobably disagree with this based on the fact that chins leave out alot of the muscles in the back that rows hit. Chins are mostly lats, teres and biceps. You get a bit of abs, tricep long head, upper chest. But they certainly shouldn’t be used as a primary exercise for those other muscles.

    Do a row and you’re hitting rear delts, traps, rhomboids, a bit of erector, a bit of hamstring - as well as the primary workhorse muscles in chins, although to a slightly lesser degree.
    *Deadlifts pants after taking a chit crew*
    *Typos can go fucl themselves crew*
    *Nice miscer crew*
    *Loves reps, hates negs crew*
    *Faps before workout crew*
    *12+ hours of sleep crew*
    *Faps during workout crew*
    *Hates onions crew*
    *Faps after workout crew*
    *No fap crew*
    Reply With Quote

  8. #8
    Registered User RapidFail's Avatar
    Join Date: Oct 2018
    Age: 51
    Posts: 932
    Rep Power: 5259
    RapidFail is a name known to all. (+5000) RapidFail is a name known to all. (+5000) RapidFail is a name known to all. (+5000) RapidFail is a name known to all. (+5000) RapidFail is a name known to all. (+5000) RapidFail is a name known to all. (+5000) RapidFail is a name known to all. (+5000) RapidFail is a name known to all. (+5000) RapidFail is a name known to all. (+5000) RapidFail is a name known to all. (+5000) RapidFail is a name known to all. (+5000)
    RapidFail is offline
    Originally Posted by Ironface View Post
    I’d proooobably disagree with this based on the fact that chins leave out alot of the muscles in the back that rows hit. Chins are mostly lats, teres and biceps. You get a bit of abs, tricep long head, upper chest. But they certainly shouldn’t be used as a primary exercise for those other muscles.

    Do a row and you’re hitting rear delts, traps, rhomboids, a bit of erector, a bit of hamstring - as well as the primary workhorse muscles in chins, although to a slightly lesser degree.
    Nothing to disagree with there, which is why I said bench and OHP, not rows. I row plenty, just prefer it with higher reps.
    Reply With Quote

  9. #9
    CEO 10k/year Ironface's Avatar
    Join Date: Jan 2013
    Posts: 6,337
    Rep Power: 9541
    Ironface is a name known to all. (+5000) Ironface is a name known to all. (+5000) Ironface is a name known to all. (+5000) Ironface is a name known to all. (+5000) Ironface is a name known to all. (+5000) Ironface is a name known to all. (+5000) Ironface is a name known to all. (+5000) Ironface is a name known to all. (+5000) Ironface is a name known to all. (+5000) Ironface is a name known to all. (+5000) Ironface is a name known to all. (+5000)
    Ironface is offline
    Originally Posted by RapidFail View Post
    Nothing to disagree with there, which is why I said bench and OHP, not rows. I row plenty, just prefer it with higher reps.
    Sorry; I misinterpreted your post. Lol

    Personally I never row over 5 reps because my form goes to hell. But that’s just me
    *Deadlifts pants after taking a chit crew*
    *Typos can go fucl themselves crew*
    *Nice miscer crew*
    *Loves reps, hates negs crew*
    *Faps before workout crew*
    *12+ hours of sleep crew*
    *Faps during workout crew*
    *Hates onions crew*
    *Faps after workout crew*
    *No fap crew*
    Reply With Quote

  10. #10
    Registered User NomadNA's Avatar
    Join Date: Oct 2020
    Age: 51
    Posts: 113
    Rep Power: 78
    NomadNA will become famous soon enough. (+50) NomadNA will become famous soon enough. (+50) NomadNA will become famous soon enough. (+50) NomadNA will become famous soon enough. (+50) NomadNA will become famous soon enough. (+50) NomadNA will become famous soon enough. (+50) NomadNA will become famous soon enough. (+50) NomadNA will become famous soon enough. (+50) NomadNA will become famous soon enough. (+50) NomadNA will become famous soon enough. (+50) NomadNA will become famous soon enough. (+50)
    NomadNA is offline
    Pull ups make pull ups harder pretty fast for me. But its very easy to do any BB movement after pull ups.

    Bent over rows burn out my erectors pretty quick.
    Reply With Quote

  11. #11
    Registered User Xpiro's Avatar
    Join Date: Nov 2019
    Age: 51
    Posts: 436
    Rep Power: 1863
    Xpiro is just really nice. (+1000) Xpiro is just really nice. (+1000) Xpiro is just really nice. (+1000) Xpiro is just really nice. (+1000) Xpiro is just really nice. (+1000) Xpiro is just really nice. (+1000) Xpiro is just really nice. (+1000) Xpiro is just really nice. (+1000) Xpiro is just really nice. (+1000) Xpiro is just really nice. (+1000) Xpiro is just really nice. (+1000)
    Xpiro is offline
    After I finish a set of deads and release the bar, I kind of do a half-collapse over it as though I were bowing in respect. Doesn’t happen with anything else, so I’d have to say deadlifts.

    After that, weighted push ups with handles. I haven’t flat BB benched since like March, but it doesn’t even compare.
    Last edited by Xpiro; 11-21-2020 at 08:50 PM.
    Reply With Quote

  12. #12
    Registered User BeginnerGainz's Avatar
    Join Date: Sep 2019
    Age: 51
    Posts: 4,672
    Rep Power: 25161
    BeginnerGainz has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) BeginnerGainz has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) BeginnerGainz has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) BeginnerGainz has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) BeginnerGainz has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) BeginnerGainz has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) BeginnerGainz has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) BeginnerGainz has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) BeginnerGainz has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) BeginnerGainz has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) BeginnerGainz has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000)
    BeginnerGainz is offline
    Originally Posted by Xpiro View Post
    After I finish a set of deads and release the bar, I kind of do a half-collapse over it as though I were bowing in respect. Doesn’t happen with anything else, so I’d have to say deadlifts.

    After that, weighted push ups with handles. I haven’t flat BB benched since like March, but it doesn’t even compare.
    If you can find a way to add resistance to the push-up whole retaining scapula movement and not making your lower back sag, that would be the GOAT upper body push exercise.
    Reply With Quote

  13. #13
    Registered User Xpiro's Avatar
    Join Date: Nov 2019
    Age: 51
    Posts: 436
    Rep Power: 1863
    Xpiro is just really nice. (+1000) Xpiro is just really nice. (+1000) Xpiro is just really nice. (+1000) Xpiro is just really nice. (+1000) Xpiro is just really nice. (+1000) Xpiro is just really nice. (+1000) Xpiro is just really nice. (+1000) Xpiro is just really nice. (+1000) Xpiro is just really nice. (+1000) Xpiro is just really nice. (+1000) Xpiro is just really nice. (+1000)
    Xpiro is offline
    Originally Posted by BeginnerGainz View Post
    If you can find a way to add resistance to the push-up whole retaining scapula movement and not making your lower back sag, that would be the GOAT upper body push exercise.
    Already doing it, yeah. The backpack I use is adjusted just so, and I have free range of my scapula and focus very intently on keeping myself neutral. I’ve gotten more out of it than I ever have from the bench, with bonus oblique gains.
    Reply With Quote

  14. #14
    Unregistered User MyEgoProblem's Avatar
    Join Date: Jan 2015
    Location: United Kingdom (Great Britain)
    Posts: 5,976
    Rep Power: 55165
    MyEgoProblem has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) MyEgoProblem has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) MyEgoProblem has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) MyEgoProblem has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) MyEgoProblem has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) MyEgoProblem has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) MyEgoProblem has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) MyEgoProblem has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) MyEgoProblem has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) MyEgoProblem has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) MyEgoProblem has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000)
    MyEgoProblem is offline
    Originally Posted by BeginnerGainz View Post
    If you can find a way to add resistance to the push-up whole retaining scapula movement and not making your lower back sag, that would be the GOAT upper body push exercise.

    At a defecit with handles I'd certainly agree it would be S tier If you can get around the loading issues. I like band over back.

    Its very much on par with dips.
    FMH crew Tank

    The right answer is usually "it depends" And those that talk in absolutes should almost certainly be ignored unless you want to buy their stuff.
    Reply With Quote

  15. #15
    Registered User GeneralSerpant's Avatar
    Join Date: Feb 2011
    Location: United States
    Posts: 16,778
    Rep Power: 58684
    GeneralSerpant has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) GeneralSerpant has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) GeneralSerpant has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) GeneralSerpant has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) GeneralSerpant has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) GeneralSerpant has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) GeneralSerpant has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) GeneralSerpant has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) GeneralSerpant has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) GeneralSerpant has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) GeneralSerpant has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000)
    GeneralSerpant is offline
    I try to do high-volume and I really make an effort to acclimate to any exercise for normalized use.

    That being said I haven't really gotten too familiar with lunges.
    Reply With Quote

  16. #16
    Registered User asrl78's Avatar
    Join Date: Nov 2018
    Age: 51
    Posts: 81
    Rep Power: 34
    asrl78 has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) asrl78 has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) asrl78 has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) asrl78 has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) asrl78 has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) asrl78 has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) asrl78 has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) asrl78 has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) asrl78 has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) asrl78 has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) asrl78 has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0)
    asrl78 is offline
    Deadlilft first, squat second, bench press third. Rows, OHP and chin-ups aren't very fatiguing for me because I can't lift enough weight (I have to do chin-ups with a band). A set of 6-8 reps of deadlifts nearly wipes me out, and I take 3-4 minutes rest between sets, and I'm only lifting 100 kg.
    Reply With Quote

  17. #17
    Fatter than last time ezra76's Avatar
    Join Date: Aug 2007
    Posts: 7,390
    Rep Power: 7686
    ezra76 is a name known to all. (+5000) ezra76 is a name known to all. (+5000) ezra76 is a name known to all. (+5000) ezra76 is a name known to all. (+5000) ezra76 is a name known to all. (+5000) ezra76 is a name known to all. (+5000) ezra76 is a name known to all. (+5000) ezra76 is a name known to all. (+5000) ezra76 is a name known to all. (+5000) ezra76 is a name known to all. (+5000) ezra76 is a name known to all. (+5000)
    ezra76 is offline
    Deadlift for sure but I pretty much always go to a 1rep max.

    Bench used to be tough but has gotten a lot better. I can go 5x5 and usually get my last 5.

    Squats same as bench. I can usually get all 5sets.
    Reply With Quote

  18. #18
    Registered User Daniel1836's Avatar
    Join Date: Aug 2014
    Location: Canada
    Age: 35
    Posts: 143
    Rep Power: 203
    Daniel1836 will become famous soon enough. (+50) Daniel1836 will become famous soon enough. (+50) Daniel1836 will become famous soon enough. (+50) Daniel1836 will become famous soon enough. (+50) Daniel1836 will become famous soon enough. (+50) Daniel1836 will become famous soon enough. (+50) Daniel1836 will become famous soon enough. (+50) Daniel1836 will become famous soon enough. (+50) Daniel1836 will become famous soon enough. (+50) Daniel1836 will become famous soon enough. (+50) Daniel1836 will become famous soon enough. (+50)
    Daniel1836 is offline
    Ever try high volume squats? I walk around fatigued all day after that.
    Reply With Quote

  19. #19
    WOATbrah of peace :) sooby's Avatar
    Join Date: Feb 2015
    Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
    Posts: 24,041
    Rep Power: 103752
    sooby has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) sooby has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) sooby has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) sooby has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) sooby has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) sooby has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) sooby has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) sooby has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) sooby has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) sooby has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) sooby has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000)
    sooby is online now
    Originally Posted by Ironface View Post
    I’d proooobably disagree with this based on the fact that chins leave out alot of the muscles in the back that rows hit. Chins are mostly lats, teres and biceps. You get a bit of abs, tricep long head, upper chest. But they certainly shouldn’t be used as a primary exercise for those other muscles.

    Do a row and you’re hitting rear delts, traps, rhomboids, a bit of erector, a bit of hamstring - as well as the primary workhorse muscles in chins, although to a slightly lesser degree.
    funny enough a deadlift hits all those muscles you just mentioned except maybe rear delts, and probably better. rows will likely add fatigue to your squat and deadlift.


    but for me in order

    squat
    deadlift
    bench/row
    ohp
    chins/pullups
    positivity brah crew
    powerlifting crew
    dont take my posts too srs crew srs
    JFL @ everything crew
    lol @ tradies srs crew
    Reply With Quote

  20. #20
    Registered User dbs25's Avatar
    Join Date: Oct 2013
    Location: Chicago, Illinois, United States
    Posts: 478
    Rep Power: 8123
    dbs25 is a name known to all. (+5000) dbs25 is a name known to all. (+5000) dbs25 is a name known to all. (+5000) dbs25 is a name known to all. (+5000) dbs25 is a name known to all. (+5000) dbs25 is a name known to all. (+5000) dbs25 is a name known to all. (+5000) dbs25 is a name known to all. (+5000) dbs25 is a name known to all. (+5000) dbs25 is a name known to all. (+5000) dbs25 is a name known to all. (+5000)
    dbs25 is offline
    1. Any working set of squats exceeding 5 reps; Probably hardest cardio I'll do that week
    5. Pull ups; Part of daily warm-up.

    If I can add one, Clean/Power Clean for multiple reps I find to be infinitely more taxing both during and after if I'm not resetting every rep.
    500/295/530

    .,
    Reply With Quote

  21. #21
    CEO 10k/year Ironface's Avatar
    Join Date: Jan 2013
    Posts: 6,337
    Rep Power: 9541
    Ironface is a name known to all. (+5000) Ironface is a name known to all. (+5000) Ironface is a name known to all. (+5000) Ironface is a name known to all. (+5000) Ironface is a name known to all. (+5000) Ironface is a name known to all. (+5000) Ironface is a name known to all. (+5000) Ironface is a name known to all. (+5000) Ironface is a name known to all. (+5000) Ironface is a name known to all. (+5000) Ironface is a name known to all. (+5000)
    Ironface is offline
    Originally Posted by sooby View Post
    funny enough a deadlift hits all those muscles you just mentioned except maybe rear delts, and probably better. rows will likely add fatigue to your squat and deadlift.


    but for me in order

    squat
    deadlift
    bench/row
    ohp
    chins/pullups
    Don’t worry; I definitely encourage deadlifts.

    Rows are still important IMO, and that’s barbell bent over rows. That’s where you’re going to build the most upper back, forearm and bicep mass. Inb4 rows don’t build arms. You really don’t think pulling 250lbs of iron from the floor to your sternum is going to build
    your arms?
    *Deadlifts pants after taking a chit crew*
    *Typos can go fucl themselves crew*
    *Nice miscer crew*
    *Loves reps, hates negs crew*
    *Faps before workout crew*
    *12+ hours of sleep crew*
    *Faps during workout crew*
    *Hates onions crew*
    *Faps after workout crew*
    *No fap crew*
    Reply With Quote

  22. #22
    WOATbrah of peace :) sooby's Avatar
    Join Date: Feb 2015
    Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
    Posts: 24,041
    Rep Power: 103752
    sooby has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) sooby has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) sooby has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) sooby has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) sooby has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) sooby has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) sooby has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) sooby has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) sooby has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) sooby has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) sooby has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000)
    sooby is online now
    Originally Posted by Ironface View Post
    Don’t worry; I definitely encourage deadlifts.

    Rows are still important IMO, and that’s barbell bent over rows. That’s where you’re going to build the most upper back, forearm and bicep mass. Inb4 rows don’t build arms. You really don’t think pulling 250lbs of iron from the floor to your sternum is going to build
    your arms?

    Horizontal rowing has always kind of been an "ehhhh" to me.

    Mainly because I care more about squats and deadlifts from a powerlifting standpoint and horizontal rowing (especially barbell rows) just adds more fatigue to that and doesn't really have a place at least for me. I think you could probably still get 90% of the benefits doing deadlifts and pullups. I do cable rows from time to time though.

    I think as well, specifically the barbell row is probably the most butchered exercise of all time. most people do it closer to some sort of inclined shrug and have zero range of motion doing it. Which is why I also prefer doing dumbbell rows as well because it basically doubles the range of motion you get. Not saying it's necessarily a bad exercise tho.

    this looks pretty good but requires a setup tho

    positivity brah crew
    powerlifting crew
    dont take my posts too srs crew srs
    JFL @ everything crew
    lol @ tradies srs crew
    Reply With Quote

  23. #23
    CEO 10k/year Ironface's Avatar
    Join Date: Jan 2013
    Posts: 6,337
    Rep Power: 9541
    Ironface is a name known to all. (+5000) Ironface is a name known to all. (+5000) Ironface is a name known to all. (+5000) Ironface is a name known to all. (+5000) Ironface is a name known to all. (+5000) Ironface is a name known to all. (+5000) Ironface is a name known to all. (+5000) Ironface is a name known to all. (+5000) Ironface is a name known to all. (+5000) Ironface is a name known to all. (+5000) Ironface is a name known to all. (+5000)
    Ironface is offline
    Originally Posted by sooby View Post
    Horizontal rowing has always kind of been an "ehhhh" to me.

    Mainly because I care more about squats and deadlifts from a powerlifting standpoint and horizontal rowing (especially barbell rows) just adds more fatigue to that and doesn't really have a place at least for me. I think you could probably still get 90% of the benefits doing deadlifts and pullups. I do cable rows from time to time though.

    I think as well, specifically the barbell row is probably the most butchered exercise of all time. most people do it closer to some sort of inclined shrug and have zero range of motion doing it. Which is why I also prefer doing dumbbell rows as well because it basically doubles the range of motion you get. Not saying it's necessarily a bad exercise tho.

    this looks pretty good but requires a setup tho

    alec enkiri video
    Lower back fatigue is definitely the biggest issue with barbell rows. I don’t know what your routine looks like, but mine currently looks like an upper/lower/off, which helps alleviate this somewhat. You’re getting some back fatigue on the upper day, more on the lower day, and then you have a full day of rest before easing into the next upper day.

    If we’re talking strictly powerlifting, barbell rows are probably a bit overrated. The volume of heavy squatting/DLing done by PLers makes it hard to program barbell rows without running into fatigue issues re: lower back. It also contributes somewhat to hamstring fatigue.

    I’ve said before that once the weights get heavy it might be wise to cut back on barbell row volume and start adding in volume with lower back-friendly alternatives, like cable rows. I don’t like doing this because I know it’s an inferior exercise for development, but I sometimes do it just to give my lower back a break.

    As for pull-ups and deadlifts. The biggest problem is going to be lack of rear delts. Important for everyone, but especially powerlifters with the amount of benching they do. Rear delts are practically impossible to overdevelop, and too easy to underdevelop. People not doing tons of rowing should atleast be doing face pulls or reverse flys. Pull-ups and deadlifts aren’t going to cut the mustard here.

    Deadlifts will get alot of the “inner” back muscles that pull-ups miss. So you’re correct in that regard.

    I still like barbell rows for arm development though. Even though pull-ups are supposedly better for arms, my guns simply look better when I’ve been rowing heavy and I get a pump from hell. Atleast 80% of my bicep/forearm work comes from heavy pendlay rows and heavy cheat barbell curls. Oh yeah - I always barbell row pendlay style. Just seems to work better for me.

    Edit: forgot to address video. Arguably, what he’s doing in the video (weighted inverted rows) could be better than barbell rows. Closed chain and removes lower back fatigue. Won’t build your deadlift as much, since it takes out the posterior chain, but that can be remedied by deadlifting more which the reduced lower back fatigue would allow you to get away with. The biggest problem with this is, like you said, the setup.
    Last edited by Ironface; 11-27-2020 at 04:57 PM.
    *Deadlifts pants after taking a chit crew*
    *Typos can go fucl themselves crew*
    *Nice miscer crew*
    *Loves reps, hates negs crew*
    *Faps before workout crew*
    *12+ hours of sleep crew*
    *Faps during workout crew*
    *Hates onions crew*
    *Faps after workout crew*
    *No fap crew*
    Reply With Quote

  24. #24
    Registered User Markype's Avatar
    Join Date: Nov 2020
    Posts: 64
    Rep Power: 0
    Markype is not very well liked. (-100) Markype is not very well liked. (-100) Markype is not very well liked. (-100) Markype is not very well liked. (-100) Markype is not very well liked. (-100) Markype is not very well liked. (-100) Markype is not very well liked. (-100) Markype is not very well liked. (-100) Markype is not very well liked. (-100) Markype is not very well liked. (-100) Markype is not very well liked. (-100)
    Markype is offline
    Originally Posted by RapidFail View Post
    Out of the following compound lifts, which do you find the most fatiguing? You can answer this based on set-to-set fatigue, time to recover (set to set and workout to workout) or any combination of these.

    Back Squat
    Bench Press
    Barbell Row
    Deadlift
    Chin Up/Pull Up
    OHP

    For me it's:

    1. Back Squat
    2. Deadlift
    3. Chin Up
    4. OHP
    5. Row
    6. Bench Press

    I know most people tend to find deadlifts the most fatiguing, but I've always found squats to be far worse. My deadlift is nearly 50% heavier than my squat too. I've found I get more of a sweat up deadlifting, but squats have me more out of breath, nauseated and light headed when I go close to failure, more DOMS too, particularly in the quads.
    Deadlift and Back Squat are both hard for me
    Chin Up/Pull Up
    Bench Press
    Reply With Quote

  25. #25
    Registered User asrl78's Avatar
    Join Date: Nov 2018
    Age: 51
    Posts: 81
    Rep Power: 34
    asrl78 has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) asrl78 has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) asrl78 has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) asrl78 has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) asrl78 has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) asrl78 has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) asrl78 has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) asrl78 has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) asrl78 has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) asrl78 has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) asrl78 has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0)
    asrl78 is offline
    Originally Posted by Ironface View Post
    Lower back fatigue is definitely the biggest issue with barbell rows.
    Not for me, my problem is my arms fatigue well before my back does. Same when trying to do (assisted) chin-ups.
    Reply With Quote

  26. #26
    CEO 10k/year Ironface's Avatar
    Join Date: Jan 2013
    Posts: 6,337
    Rep Power: 9541
    Ironface is a name known to all. (+5000) Ironface is a name known to all. (+5000) Ironface is a name known to all. (+5000) Ironface is a name known to all. (+5000) Ironface is a name known to all. (+5000) Ironface is a name known to all. (+5000) Ironface is a name known to all. (+5000) Ironface is a name known to all. (+5000) Ironface is a name known to all. (+5000) Ironface is a name known to all. (+5000) Ironface is a name known to all. (+5000)
    Ironface is offline
    Originally Posted by asrl78 View Post
    Not for me, my problem is my arms fatigue well before my back does. Same when trying to do (assisted) chin-ups.
    I meant in the context of recovery; not intra-set fatigue.
    *Deadlifts pants after taking a chit crew*
    *Typos can go fucl themselves crew*
    *Nice miscer crew*
    *Loves reps, hates negs crew*
    *Faps before workout crew*
    *12+ hours of sleep crew*
    *Faps during workout crew*
    *Hates onions crew*
    *Faps after workout crew*
    *No fap crew*
    Reply With Quote

  27. #27
    Registered User BeginnerGainz's Avatar
    Join Date: Sep 2019
    Age: 51
    Posts: 4,672
    Rep Power: 25161
    BeginnerGainz has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) BeginnerGainz has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) BeginnerGainz has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) BeginnerGainz has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) BeginnerGainz has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) BeginnerGainz has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) BeginnerGainz has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) BeginnerGainz has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) BeginnerGainz has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) BeginnerGainz has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) BeginnerGainz has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000)
    BeginnerGainz is offline
    Originally Posted by sooby View Post
    I think as well, specifically the barbell row is probably the most butchered exercise of all time. most people do it closer to some sort of inclined shrug and have zero range of motion doing it. Which is why I also prefer doing dumbbell rows as well because it basically doubles the range of motion you get. Not saying it's necessarily a bad exercise tho.

    this looks pretty good but requires a setup tho

    Sooooooooooooooo much fukking this

    Barbell rows of any kind might be the most overrated of all the barbell lifts

    Seated cable rows, chest supported rows, inverted rows have built up my back in ways dangling 300 lbs from a bent position ever did
    Reply With Quote

  28. #28
    Throbbing Member jamalfudge's Avatar
    Join Date: Jan 2013
    Location: United States
    Posts: 22,015
    Rep Power: 136057
    jamalfudge has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) jamalfudge has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) jamalfudge has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) jamalfudge has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) jamalfudge has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) jamalfudge has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) jamalfudge has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) jamalfudge has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) jamalfudge has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) jamalfudge has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) jamalfudge has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000)
    jamalfudge is offline
    High rep deads and hip thrusts do me in.
    #chaga_gangsta
    Reply With Quote

  29. #29
    CEO 10k/year Ironface's Avatar
    Join Date: Jan 2013
    Posts: 6,337
    Rep Power: 9541
    Ironface is a name known to all. (+5000) Ironface is a name known to all. (+5000) Ironface is a name known to all. (+5000) Ironface is a name known to all. (+5000) Ironface is a name known to all. (+5000) Ironface is a name known to all. (+5000) Ironface is a name known to all. (+5000) Ironface is a name known to all. (+5000) Ironface is a name known to all. (+5000) Ironface is a name known to all. (+5000) Ironface is a name known to all. (+5000)
    Ironface is offline
    Originally Posted by BeginnerGainz View Post
    Sooooooooooooooo much fukking this

    Barbell rows of any kind might be the most overrated of all the barbell lifts

    Seated cable rows, chest supported rows, inverted rows have built up my back in ways dangling 300 lbs from a bent position ever did
    To each their own. For me, the trifecta for an insane back has been:

    - Heavy ass deadlifts
    - Heavy ass barbell rows
    - Heavy ass weighted pull-ups

    Also don’t forget that things like squats and OHP contribute to back development.
    *Deadlifts pants after taking a chit crew*
    *Typos can go fucl themselves crew*
    *Nice miscer crew*
    *Loves reps, hates negs crew*
    *Faps before workout crew*
    *12+ hours of sleep crew*
    *Faps during workout crew*
    *Hates onions crew*
    *Faps after workout crew*
    *No fap crew*
    Reply With Quote

  30. #30
    Unregistered User MyEgoProblem's Avatar
    Join Date: Jan 2015
    Location: United Kingdom (Great Britain)
    Posts: 5,976
    Rep Power: 55165
    MyEgoProblem has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) MyEgoProblem has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) MyEgoProblem has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) MyEgoProblem has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) MyEgoProblem has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) MyEgoProblem has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) MyEgoProblem has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) MyEgoProblem has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) MyEgoProblem has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) MyEgoProblem has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) MyEgoProblem has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000)
    MyEgoProblem is offline
    If I start grinding set of squats... I'll have severe adductor doms for 3 days.

    If i fail a legit max dead by rounding I'll have umbar doms for 3 days.

    If neither of those occur, then it's a wash for me. Neither are gonna be harder to recover from. Everything else is at least one grade lower that s&d.

    ----

    As for bb rows... Great back builder, Great deadlift supp Lift! Easier to recover isometrics for your pc and core. Can be a great bench supp too if you take a more appropriate grip. Never really fatigued me much.

    Most people barbell row like weapons or cowards xD
    and get nothing in their upper back. I'm at the point where I can do clean sets of 3pps pendlay and **** knows about bors, 4pps+ for sets (and I don't do the vertical torso crap) I'm sick of them..

    They put more OVERALL back mass on me than any other row or very pull (includes Errectors, all the meat from ass to neck, hell even ass and hanmies too) but I've found other rows target certainly areas specifically much more and ignore other parts entirely, but need to do multiple things to cover what one lift can do.

    My fave combo atm is high tension high band rows and inv rows with my football bar and rdls.

    Trade off. Sledge hammer vs claw hammer.. But bb row, not excessively fatiguing unless you're loose and banana backing
    Last edited by MyEgoProblem; 11-29-2020 at 08:00 AM.
    FMH crew Tank

    The right answer is usually "it depends" And those that talk in absolutes should almost certainly be ignored unless you want to buy their stuff.
    Reply With Quote

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts