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  1. #31
    Clearly Irrational blue9steel's Avatar
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    I actually like conventional deadlifts but I'm phasing them out of my training as the fatigue cost is just too high. RDLs get me the same or better stimulus for much less fatigue.
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  2. #32
    Registered User AsideDish's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by BeginnerGainz View Post
    Most bodybuilding programs DON’T include deadlifts because deadlifts suck for anything other than an ego lift unless you’re competitive in powerlifting.

    Here is what I do, in a simplified format, on my upper lower days, and another upper and lower day if I didn’t have to work out at home during the week. I normally only do one working set to positive failure, and that has had the best results for me.

    Upper 1
    -Chest press (Hammer, machine, DBs)
    3x6-10
    -Reverse grip pulldowns
    3x6-10 OR Chin ups 3x AMRAP
    -Seated DB press (no back support) or Z press
    2x6-10 DO NOT LOCK OUT KEEP TENSION ON DELTS
    -Underhand chest supported row (machine or dumbbells) 2x6-10
    -Leaning tricep pressdowns 2x8-12

    Lower 1
    -Goblet, SSB or front squats 3x6-10
    -Wide Box squats (Dumbbells held between legs, or with a bar in a rack) 3x4-8
    -Seated leg curls 2x6-10
    -Leg extensions 2x10-14 (Keep these light, you want to be able to lock out for a count of 1)
    -Standing calf raises (always pause for a 2 ct at the top and bottom) 2x8-12

    A note on calf raises, it is important not to bounce each rep, but to keep the knees locked, let the calves stretch at the bottom and keep the tension on the gastrocs at the top. I’ve seen people bounce reps that were way too heavy for them and I’ve seen people turn them into a power squat, in both cases nothing is accomplished.

    Upper 2
    -Incline bench (Barbell or dumbbells)
    3x6-10
    -Seated cable rows (V grip) 3x6-10
    -Cable lateral raises 2x8-12
    -High to low crossovers 2x8-12
    -Straight arm pulldowns 2x8-12
    -Incline curls 2x6-10

    Lower 2
    -Leg press or hack squat, with a quad focus
    -Hio thrust
    -Leg curls as above
    -Leg extensions as above
    -Calf raises as above

    Abs can be done on lower days and you can do whatever light upper back work you want on upper days, I prefer underhand band pull aparts, but reverse pec deck with the pec handles (not the sideways ones) would be my next choice.
    Thanks for the detailed info, appreciate it. Regarding calf raises, I never have a problem bouncing, but I always have an issue with feeling it more in the damn tendons in my feet than my calves.
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  3. #33
    Registered User AsideDish's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Ghawk21 View Post
    Everyone always has an excuse to not deadlift and/or squat and 9/10 its because they're hard (not that they will admit this reason, they hide it behind things like hurting their back X years ago or "not wanting to"). The reality is any exercise will start to get hard if you ever move enough weight but most people will never get there with something like a bench press for example. Grow a set.

    Anyways, ranting aside, you don't need to conventional deadlift, you should perform some type of hip hinge though. At least try to learn how to do an RDL.
    And I get that. Definitely the case many times. Not that I was never willing to put in the work. While not overly impressive, I worked my way up to 600 (with room for maybe 15 more pounds or so), so I'm familiar with the lift. Just the risk-reward isn't there for me anymore.
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  4. #34
    Registered User AsideDish's Avatar
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    And I will say, I'm not necessarily opposed to rack pulls, but I always have an issue staying tight and keeping form at the start (when starting from just below the knees). Could definitely be due to my ego lifting, and that's something I recognize I definitely do in the gym.
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  5. #35
    Registered User Filmbuff81's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by AsideDish View Post
    And I will say, I'm not necessarily opposed to rack pulls, but I always have an issue staying tight and keeping form at the start (when starting from just below the knees). Could definitely be due to my ego lifting, and that's something I recognize I definitely do in the gym.
    Worry less about the load and more about the feeling of load on the targeted muscles.

    Over time weights will naturally go up.

    Check out John meadows rack pull video.

    He gives specific cues to make it work.

    https://youtu.be/Xk3yUUXtSRM

    https://youtu.be/djJXkEnysDI
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  6. #36
    Registered User BeginnerGainz's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by AsideDish View Post
    And I will say, I'm not necessarily opposed to rack pulls, but I always have an issue staying tight and keeping form at the start (when starting from just below the knees). Could definitely be due to my ego lifting, and that's something I recognize I definitely do in the gym.
    Simple enough then, don’t do them. There are literally dozens of ways of hitting traps that don’t require a chitload of plates and a rack.

    I can’t tell you how many nut height “rack pulls” I’ve seen people do...
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  7. #37
    Registered User Filmbuff81's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by BeginnerGainz View Post
    Simple enough then, don’t do them. There are literally dozens of ways of hitting traps that don’t require a chitload of plates and a rack.

    I can’t tell you how many nut height “rack pulls” I’ve seen people do...
    They are not just for traps if done correctly.

    The traps are simply doing an iso hold.

    Tbey are another way to hit erectors, glutes, and even some lats of done properly.
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  8. #38
    Registered User leidenesLK's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by AsideDish View Post
    And I will say, I'm not necessarily opposed to rack pulls, but I always have an issue staying tight and keeping form at the start (when starting from just below the knees). Could definitely be due to my ego lifting, and that's something I recognize I definitely do in the gym.
    Rack pulls are good for traps, as they respond well to heavy loading under stretch, but you may get more out of power shrugs, due to the addition of a concentric/eccentric contraction.
    Last edited by leidenesLK; 11-18-2020 at 02:31 PM.
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  9. #39
    Registered User Filmbuff81's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by leidenesLK View Post
    Rack pulls are good for traps, as they respond well to heavy loading under stretch, but you may get more out of power shrugs, due to the addition of a concentric/eccentric contraction.
    If you read what I said, I clearly state rack pulls are not just for traps.

    realistically they are not the best option to target the traps.

    Same reason unless you’re actively engaging the lats to pull the bar back towards you during the pull they are a lacklustre lat exercise too.

    If I’m going to tell someone how to get big traps, rack pulls are not going to be my go to exercise.
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  10. #40
    Registered User leidenesLK's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Filmbuff81 View Post
    If you read what I said, I clearly state rack pulls are not just for traps.

    realistically they are not the best option to target the traps.

    Same reason unless you’re actively engaging the lats to pull the bar back towards you during the pull they are a lacklustre lat exercise too.

    If I’m going to tell someone how to get big traps, rack pulls are not going to be my go to exercise.
    Responded to the wrong person lol. My bad
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  11. #41
    Registered User Filmbuff81's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by leidenesLK View Post
    Responded to the wrong person lol. My bad
    All good I was so confused lol.
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  12. #42
    Registered User tommy4life's Avatar
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    Deadlifts are not a must and I wont die on the hill for them. I was just responding to this statement. It makes it sounds like DL are stupid, unless youre competing.

    Originally Posted by BeginnerGainz View Post
    deadlifts suck for anything other than an ego lift unless you’re competitive in powerlifting.
    .
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  13. #43
    Unregistered User MyEgoProblem's Avatar
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    So we cleared up that 'no deadlift' means no conventional deadlift from the floor and not just no deadlifts at at...

    Good.

    As for conv deadlifts being crap for mass?.. Ehh not really.

    The issue is they have a bad stimulus to fatigue ratio. but not as bad as rackpulls! They have terrible sfr unless they are only from 2"~ elevation.

    But we all know people will lift ego harder and higher with rackies than floor pulls and claim them to be better.
    Which btw are also worse for your full trap and Errectors development than a floor or defecit pull.

    No big deal pulling from the floor or not.

    ---

    For just hyp goals?
    You will be looking at hip hinges that either start from the top or have a defecit component. And go n thru as full a ROM as possible. So that means none of that stupid not locking out constant tension bull**** (that doesn't mean HYPER extending)

    1 Good morning (without knees coming forward)
    2 Rdl (see above)
    3 full ghr
    4 Sldl from floor
    5 Defecit deadlift
    Would be my preferred.

    And for efficiency, likely 8-20 reps with 2 reps in reserve for most sets
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  14. #44
    Registered User Gelo24's Avatar
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    Smile hip mobility

    I getting a perfect deadlift isn't always just form though. its sometimes other things blocking you from your potential, I found I had the worst hip mobility as a teen but I read this article about fixing it and it helped so much after I got back my hips it was super easy to learn how to deadlift I would check it out if you are having the same problems
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  15. #45
    Registered User Zschnack87's Avatar
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    Im not a fan of Deadlifts as well so I subbed in RDLs and Rack Pulls.
    Progress, not perfection. One day at a time.

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  16. #46
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    Originally Posted by Ghawk21 View Post
    Everyone always has an excuse to not deadlift and/or squat and 9/10 its because they're hard (not that they will admit this reason, they hide it behind things like hurting their back X years ago or "not wanting to"). The reality is any exercise will start to get hard if you ever move enough weight but most people will never get there with something like a bench press for example. Grow a set.
    Yes I know what you mean. I don't like doing squats because I am crap at them, but I haven't found a good reason to stop doing them, so I persevere. I enjoy deadlifting much more, although I agree about how taxing they are.
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