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  1. #301
    Registered User nezaboy's Avatar
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    So it’s going to take another year or so to hit 100kg on bench?
    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    Intermediate progress numbers:

    Adding 25% to a lift in a year is considered god like.

    Adding 20% to a lift in 18 months is considered "good".

    Putting on 3kg of mass in 18 months is considered god like.

    I Say dam good progress on the traditional deadlift is going from 405 for a few reps, to 495 for a few reps, in 18 months. This is assuming you are around 6ft, and 200lbs, and hit the magic 1/2/3/4 plate singles (2 plate bench etc)

    This is based on watching senior high schoolers transition to sophomore college students.
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  2. #302
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by nezaboy View Post
    So it’s going to take another year or so to hit 100kg on bench?
    Im guessing. Think about it, your 1 rep max is 33% higher than your 10 rep max. And you are almost talking about working weight. And you are around 80kg bw now. Most never reach 2x bw bench for 1 rep even with 5-7 years of training.
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  3. #303
    Registered User nezaboy's Avatar
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    So this means when I hit my 80kg for 10 reps, I SHOULD be able to push a 100kg 1rm?
    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    Im guessing. Think about it, your 1 rep max is 33% higher than your 10 rep max. And you are almost talking about working weight. And you are around 80kg bw now. Most never reach 2x bw bench for 1 rep even with 5-7 years of training.
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  4. #304
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by nezaboy View Post
    So this means when I hit my 80kg for 10 reps, I SHOULD be able to push a 100kg 1rm?
    SHould be able to do 100 for 2 or 105 for 1
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  5. #305
    Registered User nezaboy's Avatar
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    Sounds impossible. I’ll make sure I have a spotter 😬
    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    SHould be able to do 100 for 2 or 105 for 1
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  6. #306
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by nezaboy View Post
    Sounds impossible. I’ll make sure I have a spotter 😬
    Could just run a peaking program on light day for 2 cycles...

    ed peak.png
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  7. #307
    Registered User nezaboy's Avatar
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    Oh this is interesting. So on light day I do this for chest only I assume? And should I do this at the beginning of the workout?
    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    Could just run a peaking program on light day for 2 cycles...

    Attachment 9322053
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  8. #308
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by nezaboy View Post
    Oh this is interesting. So on light day I do this for chest only I assume? And should I do this at the beginning of the workout?
    Yes. You can do it first, or after squats like normal. You are not doing the peaking program AND standard bench.
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  9. #309
    Registered User FitBeyondForty's Avatar
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    Would 1/2 hour of heavy bag work be ok on off days?
    There is no expiration date on being healthy.

    Ten Rep Max Calculator.
    http://www.naturalphysiques.com/18/o...max-calculator
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  10. #310
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by FitBeyondForty View Post
    Would 1/2 hour of heavy bag work be ok on off days?
    Try it and see. You should be able to "play sports". Else do the heavy bag work directly after the workout.
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  11. #311
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    Q15: The starting diet
    A: Your first goal is to get to 13% as quickly as manageable.
    Your end goal is BMI 24 while at 13% body fat. This normally is around the 9-12 month mark. This is normally achieved by cutting to bmi 22-23, and then slow bulking till bmi 25(to reach graduation lifting stats), followed by a 1-2 cycle cut.
    isn't this goal quite ambitious to get in 12 months? for beginners like me at least

    I wanna start lifting and I'm just checking forward if this is the best routine for me.

    my stats:
    27 years old
    5'9 (176)
    123 lbs
    18 bmi

    I have a fast af metabolism.

    Its loable for me to get into 22 bmi range with 13% low bf in my firsts 12 months training with this program? By the guide I should be able to do it but that actually means I should be able to pull many lean muscle mass, I don't think that possible?

    Thanks.
    Last edited by Eternal13; 03-28-2021 at 09:59 AM.
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  12. #312
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Eternal13 View Post
    isn't this goal quite ambitious to get in 12 months? for beginners like me at least

    I wanna start lifting and I'm just checking forward if this is the best routine for me.

    my stats:
    27 years old
    5'9 (176)
    123 lbs
    18 bmi

    I have a fast af metabolism.

    Its loable for me to get into 22 bmi range with 13% low bf in my firsts 12 months training with this program? By the guide I should be able to do it but that actually means I should be able to pull many lean muscle mass, I don't think that possible?

    Thanks.
    The goals of the program are actually pretty low compared to bigger routines that are football based (starting strength 5/3/1 even greyskull LP). Some do have grand delusions of getting to bmi 25 or even 26 @ 13% their first year

    Instead of having a fat arse and snapping and getting off the couch, you are just tired of hiding behind flag poles.

    So you just have to run the program with a perma bulk at about 1kg per cycle.

    For the hard gainers, instead of scrapping their whole diet, i tell them to just eat a bag of this over a period of six months:
    https://shop.honeyville.com/6-grain-rolled-cereal.html

    You can also do it with some other high protein grain, but most get sick of oatmeal and rice/peas/beans.
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  13. #313
    Registered User nezaboy's Avatar
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    So thinking today about my weight. In the last 6 months on this I’ve been on a bulk. I’ve put on 8kg in 6 months, so just over 1kg a month. How much of this is likely to be muscle do you think? I’ve been pushing hard for 6 months and at the end of this cycle plan on cutting as I’m seeing some fat creeping in the mid drift and tits. I just have this fear I’m gaining just fat.
    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    Yes. You can do it first, or after squats like normal. You are not doing the peaking program AND standard bench.
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  14. #314
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    If you just sat on your arse and ate your
    way to 8kg, at least 2kg of it would be muscle. aka 25 percent
    If your gods gift to bulking, 6 kg of it would be muscle. aka 75 percent

    Most people would consider a successful bulk be 50-66 percent

    So lets say you suck, and 5kg of it was fat.
    And lets say you will lose 1 kg of muscle stripping off the fat.

    That puts the net gains of your 6 month bulk at 4kg of muscle.
    If you could manage to pull that off again, that would be 8kg of muscle in a year. To put that in yanky terms, that is borderline 18 lbs of muscle in a year. I consider dam good progress to be 18lbs in 18 months.
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  15. #315
    Registered User nezaboy's Avatar
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    I think I must be a bit weird, because I’m actually really looking forward to cutting. Interested to see if I can see any muscle gain
    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    If you just sat on your arse and ate your
    way to 8kg, at least 2kg of it would be muscle. aka 25 percent
    If your gods gift to bulking, 6 kg of it would be muscle. aka 75 percent

    Most people would consider a successful bulk be 50-66 percent

    So lets say you suck, and 5kg of it was fat.
    And lets say you will lose 1 kg of muscle stripping off the fat.

    That puts the net gains of your 6 month bulk at 4kg of muscle.
    If you could manage to pull that off again, that would be 8kg of muscle in a year. To put that in yanky terms, that is borderline 18 lbs of muscle in a year. I consider dam good progress to be 18lbs in 18 months.
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  16. #316
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    Progress so far and test day question

    I have been following this program for almost a year now. I like it a lot and have seen gains. Some of the time was wasted getting my form correct but most of it was progress. I have gone from 167 lbs. In June 2020 to 174 in March 2021. Body fat % stayed close to 22% - 24% through the process. I was following a 2,800 calorie diet and later upped to a 3,000 calorie diet with the appropriate healthy proportions of proteins, carbs, and fats based on the TDEE calculator.

    I am actually trying to cut right now (about 2 months) just to trim a bit of fat off my stomach and chest. It slowly creeped up, plus I made some bad diet decisions messing around with what was already working for me that jumped me up in fat prior to starting this program. I was staying around 15% - 18% until then.

    Weights went from
    Squat: 120 lbs. to 160 lbs.
    Bench Press: 100 to 130
    Bent Row: 70 to 110
    Overhead Press: 60 to 75
    SLDL: 120 to 170
    Upright Row: 50 to 85
    Calf Raises: 130 to 200

    Not sure if this is good progress. Please let me know either way. These last few months (prior to cutting) have had me hitting some plateaus especially in my squat (couldn't do a full set of 12 on heavy day) and overhead press. I found myself starting to go backwards in squats for some reason.

    I decided to look at this post again since its been awhile and noticed the Upright Row is now the Barbell Curl. I will need to change that. I also keep seeing talk in the posts about test day but I do not see in the instructions for this program on how to do test day and when. I did the initial test before starting the program as described in the top of the post. Is it simply after a 5 week cycle doing a day to test again like the first time? What happens if you fail one of the exercises on the test? I apologize if I am missing this. Tried searching for test day but just kept getting references to it, not how to do it.
    Last edited by crazz2323; 03-29-2021 at 03:41 PM.
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  17. #317
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by crazz2323 View Post
    I have been following this program for almost a year now. I like it a lot and have seen gains.

    I also keep seeing talk in the posts about test day but I do not see in the instructions for this program on how to do test day and when. I did the initial test before starting the program as described in the top of the post. Is it simply after a 5 week cycle doing a day to test again like the first time? What happens if you fail one of the exercises on the test? I apologize if I am missing this. Tried searching for test day but just kept getting references to it, not how to do it.
    It seems you are talking about 2 different things. If you have been running allpro for a year the above questions should have been answered a year ago or you could not have ran the program...

    "Test day" is week 5 heavy 12 rep day. If you get in all 12 reps of that exercise, you "pass" and bump the weights at least 10% for next cycle, else you repeat the next cycle with the same weights.
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  18. #318
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    It seems you are talking about 2 different things. If you have been running allpro for a year the above questions should have been answered a year ago or you could not have ran the program...

    "Test day" is week 5 heavy 12 rep day. If you get in all 12 reps of that exercise, you "pass" and bump the weights at least 10% for next cycle, else you repeat the next cycle with the same weights.
    Thanks. Yes, I figured test day was just the heavy weight day but was getting mixed up reading some of these more recent posts. Sorry about the confusion. The real question would be, does the increases I made look good or am I lagging behind? Everything was going up on a regular schedule until the last few months when I started to struggle a bit.
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  19. #319
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by crazz2323 View Post
    Thanks. Yes, I figured test day was just the heavy weight day but was getting mixed up reading some of these more recent posts. Sorry about the confusion. The real question would be, does the increases I made look good or am I lagging behind? Everything was going up on a regular schedule until the last few months when I started to struggle a bit.
    Squat: 120 lbs. to 160 lbs.
    Bench Press: 100 to 130
    Bent Row: 70 to 110
    Overhead Press: 60 to 75
    SLDL: 120 to 170
    Upright Row: 50 to 85
    Calf Raises: 130 to 200

    174 in March 2021. Body fat % stayed close to 22% - 24%

    YOUR LEAN BODY MASS: 134 LBS

    recalculate for 13%...

    155lbs

    So at 155lbs you very near graduating numbers, that is why allpro is getting so hard. Squat is starting to lag due to allpro not having enough volume to push progression.

    So ladies choice, use allpro to cut down to 150-155lbs with a lifting goal of under eating to the point you dont get full sets on 11-12 rep weeks. This would still be considered progress since you are increasing your power to weight ratio. Or move on to a more self regulated or intermediate routine.
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    Squat: 120 lbs. to 160 lbs.
    Bench Press: 100 to 130
    Bent Row: 70 to 110
    Overhead Press: 60 to 75
    SLDL: 120 to 170
    Upright Row: 50 to 85
    Calf Raises: 130 to 200

    174 in March 2021. Body fat % stayed close to 22% - 24%

    YOUR LEAN BODY MASS: 134 LBS

    recalculate for 13%...

    155lbs

    So at 155lbs you very near graduating numbers, that is why allpro is getting so hard. Squat is starting to lag due to allpro not having enough volume to push progression.

    So ladies choice, use allpro to cut down to 150-155lbs with a lifting goal of under eating to the point you dont get full sets on 11-12 rep weeks. This would still be considered progress since you are increasing your power to weight ratio. Or move on to a more self regulated or intermediate routine.

    Wow. Thank you. I had no idea that I made that much progress being that the weight or so low still. Thank you for taking the time to respond and for this program. I am not happy with the extra fat around my stomach and chest right now so cutting to 150 to 155 as you suggest is something to think about. I will look back at this forum on what program to do next. I remember seeing some suggestions here for an intermediate version of All Pro. No gym is close to me so need to continue using free weights.
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  21. #321
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by crazz2323 View Post
    Wow. Thank you. I had no idea that I made that much progress being that the weight or so low still. Thank you for taking the time to respond and for this program. I am not happy with the extra fat around my stomach and chest right now so cutting to 150 to 155 as you suggest is something to think about. I will look back at this forum on what program to do next. I remember seeing some suggestions here for an intermediate version of All Pro. No gym is close to me so need to continue using free weights.
    OP has a list of intermediate routines to look at after allpro, include the allpro intermediate rotation program.
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    If I can only curl the 45 lb bar for 6-8 reps, should I just AMRAP until I get 10, then go with progression as normal? Odd since I can row 135 for 10 with proper form. Must be my trex arms. Im doing curl over upright row since my shoulder is not happy upright rowing.
    Last edited by neuralfusion011; 03-31-2021 at 05:12 PM.
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    Originally Posted by neuralfusion011 View Post
    If I can only curl the 45 lb bar for 6-8 reps, should I just AMRAP until I get 10, then go with progression as normal? Odd since I can row 135 for 10 with proper form. Must be my trex arms. Im doing curl over upright row since my shoulder is not happy upright rowing.
    The upright row should be done with a wide enough grip that your elbows naturally end at the shoulder level, we dont want to do the elbows to ears version that floss your rotator cuff with your tendons...

    But yea at this stage of the game feel free to use two amrap sets as long as it doesnt cause a stall in the row.
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    The goals of the program are actually pretty low compared to bigger routines that are football based (starting strength 5/3/1 even greyskull LP). Some do have grand delusions of getting to bmi 25 or even 26 @ 13% their first year

    Instead of having a fat arse and snapping and getting off the couch, you are just tired of hiding behind flag poles.

    So you just have to run the program with a perma bulk at about 1kg per cycle.

    For the hard gainers, instead of scrapping their whole diet, i tell them to just eat a bag of this over a period of six months:

    You can also do it with some other high protein grain, but most get sick of oatmeal and rice/peas/beans.
    Thanks you!

    But how does numbers works? 23 BMI with a 13%BF means I need to hit 155 lbs from my 123 lbs, so I need to get more than 30lbs in a year but what percentage of muscle and body fat you're supposed to hit after this year? Like gaining 20lbs muscle in a year its like best scenario possible from what I have read.

    Basically my question its your Q15 more in detail, I would like to know which benchemarks you have to hit after 6 and 9 months to know I'm doing correctly, until what point you're supposed to stop bulking and start cutting to hit that 13% at 23 BMI.
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    Its still covered. "slow bulking till bmi 25(to reach graduation lifting stats), followed by a 1-2 cycle cut."

    For you it will be slightly different.

    Odds are you will hit the body weight strength stats long before bmi 23-24.

    You will end up chasing your body weight if that makes sense.

    So you will start your 1kg per cycle bulk, after say 3-4 cycles, you will be able to do 10 reps of bw bench when you are fresh. But you will not be at bmi 24, you will be at bmi 20-21.

    Then you will continue bulking and your strength will go up with your body weight. So you will forever be able to bench 10 reps of body weight, but bench will not go up till your body weight does.

    But the results will be the same, we will just zone you as a fat arse and it will take a year (9+ cycles) to reach bmi 25, and at that point you will be 15-18% bf, and will need to spend a few cycles cutting down to 13% while maintaining your lifts.

    The opposite end of the spectrum is a true fat arse. The already have all the beginner gains, they will not gain a lick of muscle on a beginner routine. They will spend the entire time taking weight off their gut, and putting it on the bar. So they will start off squatting just the 45lbs bar, and a year later they will be 135lbs lighter, and squatting 175-225lbs.
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    OP has a list of intermediate routines to look at after allpro, include the allpro intermediate rotation program.
    Just to clarify, this is from the FAQ:

    Q11: What is the next step beyond ALLPRO?
    A: 5/3/1 BBB with the BBB lift on opposite days of the core lift.
    Greyskull LP, Start off with the /FIT variant. Do not do the phraks(beginner) variant.
    Or rotated allpro intermediate every 6-8 weeks

    So, I do a program like 5/3/1 Boring but Big (I was actually doing this before I switched to All Pro a year ago because I was stalling), OR Greyskull LP starting with /FIT Variant AND mix it with AllPro Intermediate every 6-8 weeks? If so, how does that work exactly? I just stop the other and do the All Pro Intermediate for 2 months then switch back?

    OR is doing the All Pro Intermediate an alternative to the other programs and I just do that? Sorry, a bit confused on how the FAQ reads.

    Also when I google Greyskull LP Variants, I find the following but no FIT variant:

    Gladiator Variant
    Strength and Hypertrophy Variant
    Fat Loss Variant
    Beginner's Female Variant
    Female Firming and Toning Variant
    Crossfit Variant
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    Originally Posted by crazz2323 View Post
    Just to clarify, this is from the FAQ:

    Q11: What is the next step beyond ALLPRO?
    A: 5/3/1 BBB with the BBB lift on opposite days of the core lift.
    Greyskull LP, Start off with the /FIT variant. Do not do the phraks(beginner) variant.
    Or rotated allpro intermediate every 6-8 weeks

    So, I do a program like 5/3/1 Boring but Big (I was actually doing this before I switched to All Pro a year ago because I was stalling), OR Greyskull LP starting with /FIT Variant AND mix it with AllPro Intermediate every 6-8 weeks? If so, how does that work exactly? I just stop the other and do the All Pro Intermediate for 2 months then switch back?

    OR is doing the All Pro Intermediate an alternative to the other programs and I just do that? Sorry, a bit confused on how the FAQ reads.

    Also when I google Greyskull LP Variants, I find the following but no FIT variant:

    Gladiator Variant
    Strength and Hypertrophy Variant
    Fat Loss Variant
    Beginner's Female Variant
    Female Firming and Toning Variant
    Crossfit Variant
    Each line is a program
    either :
    5/3/1 BBB

    greyskull LP

    Or

    the allpro intermediate rotation


    You dont program hop every 6-8 weeks. You are going to be sticking with one of the above for ideally a few years, and just rotate out variants of lifts as you get bored etc. So it might be; highbar/lowbar/boxsquat and rotated every quarter.


    I still dont understand how people cant google image search "greyskull lp /fit"....

    But you have to be wary of greyskull lp variants. "alot" are based around sports performance and iron man/triathlon/crossfit games, training. I tend to look for "is my torso moving up/down in relation to the floor, under load, most of the program". If the torso is moving forwards/backwards/side-to-side or has lots of jumping/ramps, its more for sports vs muscle building.

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    Its my test day tomorrow. Yesterday after a long drive I have possible sciatica nerve issues. It’s like a tight band pinching from the lower back, through my glute, hamstring and calf. It’s worse when I sit and get up to walk, and I can feel the pinch if I stretch my hamstring.

    How should I approach my test day?
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    If our grip is starting to fail before our lower back on SLDL, what should we do to help with grip strength? My SLDL is not heavy enough that i'd even think about chalk/straps yet...I just have small hands and **** grip. Could I throw in 2 sets of static barbell holds (with same weight as SLDL?) after my SLDL sets, or do you have a better suggestion? I just want your opinion since I don't wanna overtrain grip and have it stall my SLDL.
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    Originally Posted by nezaboy View Post
    Its my test day tomorrow. Yesterday after a long drive I have possible sciatica nerve issues. It’s like a tight band pinching from the lower back, through my glute, hamstring and calf. It’s worse when I sit and get up to walk, and I can feel the pinch if I stretch my hamstring.

    How should I approach my test day?
    Id do a 2.5-5k jog about 4 hours before the workout. Else you can delay it up to 2 days, and do it on your medium day.
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