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  1. #661
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    Originally Posted by ddosh View Post
    Quick question - i am doing the program
    with 2 heavy workouts / week.

    Due to an operation i need to rest for 2 weeks. Last workout was the first workout of the week with 10 reps.

    Where do i pickup after 2 weeks break/deload? Start the cycle again with 8 reps or try to continue with 10 reps?
    After a long pause, you start at 9 rep week, as 8 rep is considered the "mini deload".
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  2. #662
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    I'll be starting on the dumbell alternative as I can't access a barbell or plates. Question: How do I manage the medium and light workout days when there's no dbs that are 10%/20% lighter? For instance for the seated arnold press I'll be starting with 10kg. The weights available are 5kg, 7.5kg, 10kg, 12.5kg etc (2.5kg increments). How would I work around that? Thanks
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  3. #663
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by perp3 View Post
    I'll be starting on the dumbell alternative as I can't access a barbell or plates. Question: How do I manage the medium and light workout days when there's no dbs that are 10%/20% lighter? For instance for the seated arnold press I'll be starting with 10kg. The weights available are 5kg, 7.5kg, 10kg, 12.5kg etc (2.5kg increments). How would I work around that? Thanks
    you may want to make your own "fractional weight set" out of some hoops of chain to make some 1.25lb/.5kg micro weights so you can go up and down 2.5lbs/1kg. Some gyms dont even have 2.5/1kg pound plates, so that could be replace with 2 hoops per side.


    https://caloriebee.com/fitness-equip...r-Microloading
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  4. #664
    Registered User Lucozade1998's Avatar
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    After not working out for about 2 years. I'm about to go the gym again, I was originally going to the fierce 5 routine, is this one better for me? Or will it not make much difference which one I choose? Thanks in advance.
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  5. #665
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Lucozade1998 View Post
    After not working out for about 2 years. I'm about to go the gym again, I was originally going to the fierce 5 routine, is this one better for me? Or will it not make much difference which one I choose? Thanks in advance.
    If you are splitting hairs, allpro is more for people wanting to start on a cut, and F5 is more for people wanting to start on a bulk. Once you are in the groove and either miss your first test day on allpro or trigger a deload on F5, both programs will have similar results beyond that point.
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  6. #666
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    If you are splitting hairs, allpro is more for people wanting to start on a cut, and F5 is more for people wanting to start on a bulk. Once you are in the groove and either miss your first test day on allpro or trigger a deload on F5, both programs will have similar results beyond that point.
    Thank you for the reply, yes looking to bulk. Im 6ft 4 and at 15.1 stone, looking add some size. Will definitely go with Fierce 5 then, really appreciate the reply.
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  7. #667
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    Program Beginner Help

    Hello all

    Starting the program after running round the gym the last few weeks with no real plan just lifting stuff (mainly using machines if im honest) have lifted weights on and off before.

    Problem im having is squats feel like they are gona give me issues tried today as far as im aware to keep my form good only 20kg on the bar and gettin some lower back pain during the lift (not sure if thats to be expected in a beginner with a ****ty core)

    Overhead presses I struggle to do without my lower back rounding (****ty core again im guessing)

    Bent over rows I have always struggled with so I usually t bar row plate loaded so wide grip and close is an option not sure if that would be an acceptable alternative (ive guessed not as it probably takes alot of the stabilisation work away)


    Thank you
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  8. #668
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by MozyO View Post
    Hello all

    Starting the program after running round the gym the last few weeks with no real plan just lifting stuff (mainly using machines if im honest) have lifted weights on and off before.

    Problem im having is squats feel like they are gona give me issues tried today as far as im aware to keep my form good only 20kg on the bar and gettin some lower back pain during the lift (not sure if thats to be expected in a beginner with a ****ty core)

    Overhead presses I struggle to do without my lower back rounding (****ty core again im guessing)

    Bent over rows I have always struggled with so I usually t bar row plate loaded so wide grip and close is an option not sure if that would be an acceptable alternative (ive guessed not as it probably takes alot of the stabilisation work away)


    Thank you
    U have zero back/core strength. Thats why it fails in basically every lift, and you have to t-bar row(which takes the back completely out of the movement)

    Allpro(and most beginner routines) use the back as the limiting factor, and hammer the crap out of it. Basically the programs are setup so that the back is the first thing to compromise, so that you can not over power it with your legs for example.

    Ive had people start allpro body weight with a broom handle to mimic the bar, and even that was tough for them due to imbalances.

    My advice is quit ego lifting and choose weights appropriate for your weakest link.

    You may even want to "not work out" and just focus on your core/back for 6-8 weeks before you start "a" beginner routine.

    If you want to try that:

    High foot farmer walks/carries
    hanging leg raise
    allpro (fixed neutral back, for hamstrings)SLDL
    old school(back rounding, for spinal erectors) SLDL:
    https://youtu.be/X0WYUoZ-Om0
    (chest unsupported) narrow row. This could be seated cable rowing machine

    This "mini program" needs to be high rep low weight. 2-3 sets of each for around 20 rep sets. 3-4 sessions per week. Since this will be high rep and you are a beginner, you will need to take at least 3min rests between sets, so you dont get sloppy. Weight should be something that you can do at least 16 of, but cant do 24 of.
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  9. #669
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    U have zero back/core strength. Thats why it fails in basically every lift, and you have to t-bar row(which takes the back completely out of the movement)

    Allpro(and most beginner routines) use the back as the limiting factor, and hammer the crap out of it. Basically the programs are setup so that the back is the first thing to compromise, so that you can not over power it with your legs for example.

    Ive had people start allpro body weight with a broom handle to mimic the bar, and even that was tough for them due to imbalances.

    My advice is quit ego lifting and choose weights appropriate for your weakest link.

    You may even want to "not work out" and just focus on your core/back for 6-8 weeks before you start "a" beginner routine.

    If you want to try that:

    High foot farmer walks/carries
    hanging leg raise
    allpro (fixed neutral back, for hamstrings)SLDL
    old school(back rounding, for spinal erectors) SLDL:
    (chest unsupported) narrow row. This could be seated cable rowing machine

    This "mini program" needs to be high rep low weight. 2-3 sets of each for around 20 rep sets. 3-4 sessions per week. Since this will be high rep and you are a beginner, you will need to take at least 3min rests between sets, so you dont get sloppy. Weight should be something that you can do at least 16 of, but cant do 24 of.
    Thanks for that great advice.

    Going to the gym and ego lifting explains me perfectly unfortunately, as much weight as i could with no focus on form, hurt myself one way or another, stop going then repeat trying to do it right this time round.

    Gona go tomorrow empty the bar or use a broom handle where im really struggling and start tryin to perfect the bent over row (it wouldnt give me pain as such just never feels as if im doing it right if that makes sense)

    Would it be ok to alternate your core/back routine and the allpro on seperate days?

    Thanks again for the reply.
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  10. #670
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    Also would there be anywhere on the forum to post videos for form checks?
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  11. #671
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by MozyO View Post
    Thanks for that great advice.

    Going to the gym and ego lifting explains me perfectly unfortunately, as much weight as i could with no focus on form, hurt myself one way or another, stop going then repeat trying to do it right this time round.

    Gona go tomorrow empty the bar or use a broom handle where im really struggling and start tryin to perfect the bent over row (it wouldnt give me pain as such just never feels as if im doing it right if that makes sense)

    Would it be ok to alternate your core/back routine and the allpro on seperate days?

    Thanks again for the reply.
    You do not want to alternate workouts. At best you could do the core routine every other weekend for GPP work, but thats only after you pass a few "test days" on allpro and build up your endurance.
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  12. #672
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by MozyO View Post
    Also would there be anywhere on the forum to post videos for form checks?
    https://forum.bodybuilding.com/forumdisplay.php?f=9

    Possibly even here, as a few people have posted form checks for allpro routine. But i can only check videos for a window of a hour or two at night so it might be several days.
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  13. #673
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    Possibly even here, as a few people have posted form checks for allpro routine. But i can only check videos for a window of a hour or two at night so it might be several days.
    Will have a look at that thank you for all your help.
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  14. #674
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    So went and started my 10 rep max check today and soon realised i had definatly been trying to lift too heavy in the past, first time ive squatted without back pain just by watching a few videos and realising i wasnt breathing or bracing correctly massive difference.

    Started from empty bar warm up and added a few times until either my form started gettin a bit crappy or i felt like i wouldnt get another rep after 10 and used the calculators to get my work weights (planning to do this a few times before I start properly).
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  15. #675
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    Starting weights after that were (all including bar)


    Squats 70kg
    Bench Presses 50kg
    Bent-Over Rows 55kg
    Overhead Barbell Presses 25kg
    Stiff-Legged Deadlifts 60kg
    Barbell Curls 22.5kg
    Calf Raises 40kg (dumbells)

    Question is can you swap the calf raises out for calf raises on the smith/seated leg press as far as ive read they seem to be purely for aesthetic? The free weight versions feel so damn awkward
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  16. #676
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by MozyO View Post
    Starting weights after that were (all including bar)


    Squats 70kg
    Bench Presses 50kg
    Bent-Over Rows 55kg
    Overhead Barbell Presses 25kg
    Stiff-Legged Deadlifts 60kg
    Barbell Curls 22.5kg
    Calf Raises 40kg (dumbells)

    Question is can you swap the calf raises out for calf raises on the smith/seated leg press as far as ive read they seem to be purely for aesthetic? The free weight versions feel so damn awkward
    calf raises anything goes, you can even skip them if you like your current size. What you can not do is swap them for another exercise that "involves" the calfs. calf raise you are going for full range of motion, which will help with "buttwink" in the squat by increasing ankle mobility. So you could use the leg press, if you can just have the balls of your feet on the platform, so that the heel can uh drop below the horizon. You can not just do a "flat foot raise".
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  17. #677
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    calf raises anything goes, you can even skip them if you like your current size. What you can not do is swap them for another exercise that "involves" the calfs. calf raise you are going for full range of motion, which will help with "buttwink" in the squat by increasing ankle mobility. So you could use the leg press, if you can just have the balls of your feet on the platform, so that the heel can uh drop below the horizon. You can not just do a "flat foot raise".
    Thats great to know, will do them on smith with a step to ensure full rom

    Thank you for all the advice
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  18. #678
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    Wanting to start this after injury, been in an airboot for 3 months tibia stress fracture just gettin back to the gym after getting back to normality, physio said he doesnt recommend squats as they can put strain on the tibia and knee, asked if there was any alternative he said if i really wanted to do a leg exercise hex bar deads probably would be best, would it be acceptable to swap out for the hex deadlift in this case.
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  19. #679
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    Originally Posted by Ohaye View Post
    Wanting to start this after injury, been in an airboot for 3 months tibia stress fracture just gettin back to the gym after getting back to normality, physio said he doesnt recommend squats as they can put strain on the tibia and knee, asked if there was any alternative he said if i really wanted to do a leg exercise hex bar deads probably would be best, would it be acceptable to swap out for the hex deadlift in this case.
    The best knee freindly version would be a true box squat.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SP2b1KnLIUw

    If done correctly there is very little ankle movement, and the torque is equalized on the knee. And the tibia remains in the upright position the entire time. This would technically be easier on the tibia vs a hex bar deadlift.
    You kinda know you got the form and stance right when you end up sitting on the box, and the tibia is perpendicular to the floor in all directions. Its a unique form, you are not just "normal squatting onto a box".




    If not yes you can do a deficit hex bar deadlift, but you are not allowed to touch the floor between reps, just like the SLDL.
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  20. #680
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    Is there a youtube playlist that has these exercises by chance?

    Edit: Nevermind it's in the faq. I'm slow
    Last edited by Kenneth196; 02-04-2022 at 03:42 PM.
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  21. #681
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    Going back to gym for the first time in post pandemic world and I know where to come even before I pay my gym fee. Good to see you nightanole. I used to follow all your posts when I was doing all pro in pre pandemic world. So many things have changed after CoVid but you helping out people with your posts seems to be a permanent thing and I for one is so grateful for it.

    Now I have two questions. I have been doing intermittent fasting 16/8. Would it be possible to do all pro while following that? And BP has always been my weakest lift. Is there anything I can do from the beginning to solve this?

    Thank you in advance. Your posts have always been helpful for me in the past.
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  22. #682
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    Originally Posted by kalobandor View Post
    Going back to gym for the first time in post pandemic world and I know where to come even before I pay my gym fee. Good to see you nightanole. I used to follow all your posts when I was doing all pro in pre pandemic world. So many things have changed after CoVid but you helping out people with your posts seems to be a permanent thing and I for one is so grateful for it.

    Now I have two questions. I have been doing intermittent fasting 16/8. Would it be possible to do all pro while following that? And BP has always been my weakest lift. Is there anything I can do from the beginning to solve this?

    Thank you in advance. Your posts have always been helpful for me in the past.
    You are running on whatever you ate 8-12 hours ago, not what you ate 4 hours ago(blood glucose). So if you havent eaten in the last 8-12 hours, its going to be rough, just like the folks that workout at 5am before work.

    As for the bench, it seems people get over a hump by doing a few really heavy reps at the end of the workout. For safety (or if you have safety bars) you could do a floor press using around 90% of your 1rm, aka 125% of your heavy day weight. This should get you 1-3 reps depending on your energy levels. If you are getting a constant 3 you want to add a bit more weight. This can be done for 1-2 sets at the end of every workout. This seems to clean up inefficient form.
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  23. #683
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    What's the recommended cardio activities that we should do on off days? High pace cardio like jogging/running or more in the casual side like walking, stationary bike, etc?
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  24. #684
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    Originally Posted by Kenneth196 View Post
    What's the recommended cardio activities that we should do on off days? High pace cardio like jogging/running or more in the casual side like walking, stationary bike, etc?
    Q6: what type of extra cardio should I do?
    A: The recommended cardio is 3x 10k jogs per week. This can be any Low Intensity Steady State exercise, as long as the pace is sustainable for at least 45minutes, even if you do it in 20min bursts throughout the week. Doing the cardio will increase recovery. HIIT is not recommended because it counts as an additional lifting session and will rob recovery.


    If you cant carry a conversation when doing it, its too intense. Ive had plenty of people do WOW/pokemon/zoom meetings, with the under the desk pedal bikes for an hour a day.
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    Registered User Shadybaby316's Avatar
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    Hi ,
    I had started the training in June and did it for 6 months, bumped the weight and completed few cycles successfully.

    On 18th Nov I stopped as I had to travel. I have not been training for the past 2.5 months and I have also gained around 5kgs in the past few months.

    Now I am going to start the program again, my question is what weight should I start? Do I need to do the ten rep max again or can I just start the weight where I I left it from?

    Thank you so much
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    Hey Night I went to the gym and this is what my body composition is like: 176 cm height with weight of 74 kg and TBF of 30.3% and VFI 14.7. Standard weight but Excessive body fat as they say. Do you think my diet (2100-2500 calories )and cardio (2-3 hrs a week) should be what is prescribed in all pro faq or do I need to change anything? What should I look out for? At the moment my calorie intake is around 1700. Thanks as always.
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    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Shadybaby316 View Post
    Hi ,
    I had started the training in June and did it for 6 months, bumped the weight and completed few cycles successfully.

    On 18th Nov I stopped as I had to travel. I have not been training for the past 2.5 months and I have also gained around 5kgs in the past few months.

    Now I am going to start the program again, my question is what weight should I start? Do I need to do the ten rep max again or can I just start the weight where I I left it from?

    Thank you so much
    I would suggest running the auto regulated variant posted in the faq, using whatever weights you left off at. Once you pass a bench/row/squat or two in a few weeks, you can decide to switch back to regular, or continue on auto regulated.
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    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by kalobandor View Post
    Hey Night I went to the gym and this is what my body composition is like: 176 cm height with weight of 74 kg and TBF of 30.3% and VFI 14.7. Standard weight but Excessive body fat as they say. Do you think my diet (2100-2500 calories )and cardio (2-3 hrs a week) should be what is prescribed in all pro faq or do I need to change anything? What should I look out for? At the moment my calorie intake is around 1700. Thanks as always.
    The "starting diet" is the minimum required to "perform". Going much under that and your lifts will suffer. If you are still not losing 1-2kg per cycle with the starting diet, you must up the cardio.

    But you can "bulk" for a long time on your spare tire and still make gains. Somewhere around 15-18% it will become hard to progress on lifts, and lose fat. At that point you have to decide to maintain lifts and keep dropping weight, or start lean bulking at 1kg per cycle while maintaining the same body fat percentage.


    But at the start of the program its up to you. I tell people to cut as quickly as possible to 13% while learning the lifts, then slow bulk. getting lean and "seeing" your small muscles change is a good motivator.
    But there are those that hate losing weight, and hate "looking small" and hate not gaining strength at max speed. Those people can lean bulk to bmi 25-26 even 27, but then you will never see your muscles for a long time. You will just have "meat tubes" for arms and legs and have to spend months and months lean cutting that extra 15kg of fat off.
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    Hello! I need some advice on what's the best approach to handle the following situation:

    - Last Monday was test day of the third cycle, which I passed successfully.
    - I didn't returned to the gym yet, since I'm feeling sick; so trying to recover for a bit.
    - From 3/7 to 3/11 I would not have access to a gym, certainly not one with barbells. This is the week of 11 reps according to my plan.

    Taking into consideration these "issues", what's the best for me to do and minimize the impact? In particular, can I do the following?

    - Skip the rest of the workouts for the week, given that I passed test day
    - Start next week with 8 reps with increased weights, and then take the 11 rep week as rest and then go straight to test day

    Thanks!
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  30. #690
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by dmesg View Post
    Hello! I need some advice on what's the best approach to handle the following situation:

    - Last Monday was test day of the third cycle, which I passed successfully.
    - I didn't returned to the gym yet, since I'm feeling sick; so trying to recover for a bit.
    - From 3/7 to 3/11 I would not have access to a gym, certainly not one with barbells. This is the week of 11 reps according to my plan.

    Taking into consideration these "issues", what's the best for me to do and minimize the impact? In particular, can I do the following?

    - Skip the rest of the workouts for the week, given that I passed test day
    - Start next week with 8 reps with increased weights, and then take the 11 rep week as rest and then go straight to test day

    Thanks!
    That is a pickle....
    first yes you dont have to finish the test week, if you are sick.



    You have two choices:
    Start next week at 9 rep week and skip the 8 rep mini deload. This way you can get in test day before you leave

    Your other choice is start next week with 8 reps as normal, and after you get back reset to 9 reps and start again.


    But you can not do 11 rep week, take 5-10 days off, then do a test day. You will not be fatigued so it will be a false test.
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