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  1. #331
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by neuralfusion011 View Post
    If our grip is starting to fail before our lower back on SLDL, what should we do to help with grip strength? My SLDL is not heavy enough that i'd even think about chalk/straps yet...I just have small hands and **** grip. Could I throw in 2 sets of static barbell holds (with same weight as SLDL?) after my SLDL sets, or do you have a better suggestion? I just want your opinion since I don't wanna overtrain grip and have it stall my SLDL.
    Alternating 1 handed hangs from the chinup bar, till you can hold for even 2 seconds, at the end of each workout.

    Also "wraps" work without cheating. Just dont use them in the squat/bench with the weird bent wrist form :P
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  2. #332
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    Ok, what will the jog do? Loosen me up?
    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    Id do a 2.5-5k jog about 4 hours before the workout. Else you can delay it up to 2 days, and do it on your medium day.
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  3. #333
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by nezaboy View Post
    Ok, what will the jog do? Loosen me up?
    Yup. And allow ample time to have your glycogen stores restored.
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  4. #334
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    If it’s still playing up can I test bench, OHP and bicep curl? Maybe skip row ,squat and SLdl?
    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    Yup. And allow ample time to have your glycogen stores restored.
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  5. #335
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by nezaboy View Post
    If it’s still playing up can I test bench, OHP and bicep curl? Maybe skip row ,squat and SLdl?
    You have to test matching lifts on the same day

    row/curl same day

    bench/ohp same day

    squat/sldl same day
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  6. #336
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    Ok cool. I’ll see tomorrow and delay till Wednesday if not. If I need to skip this week what would I set back to?
    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    You have to test matching lifts on the same day

    row/curl same day

    bench/ohp same day

    squat/sldl same day
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  7. #337
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by nezaboy View Post
    Ok cool. I’ll see tomorrow and delay till Wednesday if not. If I need to skip this week what would I set back to?
    If you can not do a test day within 10 days of your last heavy, technically you should reset to 9 rep week. You could try it on day 11-12 but it better be a dam easy pass.
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  8. #338
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    Hey thanks, night. So am I supposed to do both a 1/4 warmup AND a 1/2 warmup before each exercise with the same break?

    So for example:

    Squats: 1/4 WmUp set > 1/2 WmUp set > X sets for X reps
    Bench Presses: 1/4 WmUp set > 1/2 WmUp set > X sets for X reps
    Bent-Over Rows: 1/4 WmUp set > 1/2 WmUp set > X sets for X reps
    Overhead Barbell Presses: 1/4 WmUp set > 1/2 WmUp set > X sets for X reps
    Stiff-Legged Deadlifts: 1/4 WmUp set > 1/2 WmUp set > X sets for X reps
    Barbell Curls: 1/4 WmUp set > 1/2 WmUp set > X sets for X reps
    Calf Raises: 1/4 WmUp set > 1/2 WmUp set > X sets for X reps


    I used to lift I think Push/Pull/Legs for ~3 years ~8-11 years ago and looked good for my height. Haven't lifted since but I'm looking to get back into lifting to get bigger. Do you recommend this program for someone like me looking to cut not bulk? Newb gains + muscle regrowth being faster do you think that would be ok?

    I've actually already finished my diet plan. Bean running this whole time while I did it, finally getting to the gym. 30 meals (OMAD most days) completed. All delicious. All perfect. I can't rework my diet plan lol..... Although I could eat more pancakes, spaghetti, mashed potatoes...

    Your diet is much higher carb than mine:
    - ~250 cal deficit.
    - 1g Protien per 1Lb LBM
    - Usually no more than 100g carb, but never more than 125g. Sometimes around 50-60 carbs.

    What do you think?

    28 years old.
    Last edited by userOXTXJOGG8K9; 04-05-2021 at 05:10 PM.
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  9. #339
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by userOXTXJOGG8K9 View Post
    Hey thanks, night. So am I supposed to do both a 1/4 warmup AND a 1/2 warmup before each exercise with the same break?

    So for example:

    Squats: 1/4 WmUp set > 1/2 WmUp set > X sets for X reps
    Bench Presses: 1/4 WmUp set > 1/2 WmUp set > X sets for X reps
    Bent-Over Rows: 1/4 WmUp set > 1/2 WmUp set > X sets for X reps
    Overhead Barbell Presses: 1/4 WmUp set > 1/2 WmUp set > X sets for X reps
    Stiff-Legged Deadlifts: 1/4 WmUp set > 1/2 WmUp set > X sets for X reps
    Barbell Curls: 1/4 WmUp set > 1/2 WmUp set > X sets for X reps
    Calf Raises: 1/4 WmUp set > 1/2 WmUp set > X sets for X reps


    I used to lift I think Push/Pull/Legs for ~3 years ~8-11 years ago and looked good for my height. Haven't lifted since but I'm looking to get back into lifting to get bigger. Do you recommend this program for someone like me looking to cut not bulk? Newb gains + muscle regrowth being faster do you think that would be ok?

    I've actually already finished my diet plan. Bean running this whole time while I did it, finally getting to the gym. 30 meals (OMAD most days) completed. All delicious. All perfect. I can't rework my diet plan lol..... Although I could eat more pancakes, spaghetti, mashed potatoes...

    Your diet is much higher carb than mine:
    - ~250 cal deficit.
    - 1g Protien per 1Lb LBM
    - Usually no more than 100g carb, but never more than 125g. Sometimes around 50-60 carbs.

    What do you think?

    28 years old.
    The warmups are just for the first 3 exercises. They are pretty generic just to keep the n00b from spending 20min warming up and 40min working out. 2 sets of 10, every workout, with the same weight, is fine all cycle long. You dont have to over complicate it. "mimic the movement with submaximal weight". You dont have to adjust the weight for h/m/l nor rep ranges. the final warmup can be 2/3 your light day for example.


    This program is for people that are at least 4-6 months away from doing 10 reps of bw bench @13%bf. Normally is this around bmi 23-24. No point in spending 4-6 weeks adapting to a program that you will only run for 90 days.



    The "starting diet" is generally the mins, you can go higher. Its mainly written so people dont take "the rocks" 5000 calorie cutting diet, and just cut it in half.

    If you can run off of higher protein and fat, go for it. But generally the "non lifters" start to have recovery issues and lack of energy if i flip the protein and carb ratios, even though calories are the same.
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  10. #340
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    The warmups are just for the first 3 exercises. They are pretty generic just to keep the n00b from spending 20min warming up and 40min working out. 2 sets of 10, every workout, with the same weight, is fine all cycle long. You dont have to over complicate it. "mimic the movement with submaximal weight". You dont have to adjust the weight for h/m/l nor rep ranges. the final warmup can be 2/3 your light day for example.


    This program is for people that are at least 4-6 months away from doing 10 reps of bw bench @13%bf. Normally is this around bmi 23-24. No point in spending 4-6 weeks adapting to a program that you will only run for 90 days.



    The "starting diet" is generally the mins, you can go higher. Its mainly written so people dont take "the rocks" 5000 calorie cutting diet, and just cut it in half.

    If you can run off of higher protein and fat, go for it. But generally the "non lifters" start to have recovery issues and lack of energy if i flip the protein and carb ratios, even though calories are the same.
    Oh Interesting, my BMI is 23.2 and I'm 5'8" 151.2Lbs (just checked) but I'm definitely not 13%bf. I almost definitely couldn't bench my bw for 10 reps, haven't gone to the gym yet though.

    Is there another program you'd recommend me?

    Thanks for the quick response!
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  11. #341
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    Ok managed to do this today so seems fine. Passed on everything except OHP which felt unusually weak. Might retest that again this week. Is cycle 6 now. Is it too early to go self regulated?
    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    If you can not do a test day within 10 days of your last heavy, technically you should reset to 9 rep week. You could try it on day 11-12 but it better be a dam easy pass.
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  12. #342
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    Originally Posted by userOXTXJOGG8K9 View Post
    Oh Interesting, my BMI is 23.2 and I'm 5'8" 151.2Lbs (just checked) but I'm definitely not 13%bf. I almost definitely couldn't bench my bw for 10 reps, haven't gone to the gym yet though.

    Is there another program you'd recommend me?

    Thanks for the quick response!
    Sounds like your best bet is still this program. I have a list of programs after you hit body weight bench etc, in the FAQ.
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  13. #343
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by nezaboy View Post
    Ok managed to do this today so seems fine. Passed on everything except OHP which felt unusually weak. Might retest that again this week. Is cycle 6 now. Is it too early to go self regulated?
    light day try 110% for 1 set of ten for OHP, if you pass you are gold, else repeat the weight.

    Self regulated can be just about any time. The link to self regulated has my min recommendations. Its mainly "do you have good form when fatigued". Or are you squatting 150lbs good, 165lbs iffy, and people are giving you odd looks when you unrack 180lbs.
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  14. #344
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    On self regulated, is heavy on Monday, Wednesday, Friday going to be too much? Program says 1-4 days a week. But always thought 3 heavies means yours not doing heavy enough?! I’m only considering this as the 10% bumps are a lot at this stage as I’m close to graduating
    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    light day try 110% for 1 set of ten for OHP, if you pass you are gold, else repeat the weight.

    Self regulated can be just about any time. The link to self regulated has my min recommendations. Its mainly "do you have good form when fatigued". Or are you squatting 150lbs good, 165lbs iffy, and people are giving you odd looks when you unrack 180lbs.
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  15. #345
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    Originally Posted by nezaboy View Post
    On self regulated, is heavy on Monday, Wednesday, Friday going to be too much? Program says 1-4 days a week. But always thought 3 heavies means yours not doing heavy enough?! I’m only considering this as the 10% bumps are a lot at this stage as I’m close to graduating
    If you keep reading, it says your rep totals will drop during the week as the fatigue builds up. So yes if you can do 3 heavies a week with the same rep totals, you are short setting or not going heavy enough.

    Also on auto regulated you can go for less than 10% bumps "if" the bump still causes you to drop down to a 15-16 rep total. I do not want you getting a 24 rep total, and then bump 2.5%, and end up with a 20 rep total next session.
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  16. #346
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    Is there a rule on how many reps you should get in the first set? I’m assuming You’re looking for no. Ore than 12-13 reps in the first set? Is auto regulated still good for hypertrophy? This really is still my main goal over strength
    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    If you keep reading, it says your rep totals will drop during the week as the fatigue builds up. So yes if you can do 3 heavies a week with the same rep totals, you are short setting or not going heavy enough.

    Also on auto regulated you can go for less than 10% bumps "if" the bump still causes you to drop down to a 15-16 rep total. I do not want you getting a 24 rep total, and then bump 2.5%, and end up with a 20 rep total next session.
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  17. #347
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    Originally Posted by nezaboy View Post
    Is there a rule on how many reps you should get in the first set? I’m assuming You’re looking for no. Ore than 12-13 reps in the first set? Is auto regulated still good for hypertrophy? This really is still my main goal over strength
    No rules, you might get 14-15 the first set, and only 10 the second set, when you "pass".

    And yes its still "hypertrophy work". A strength program would be 90-120 minutes and have multiple multiple low rep sets with 3min+ rest times.
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  18. #348
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    Gyms back open today. So nice to
    Be back. And just like weights at home felt heavier. They definitely felt lighter at the gym today. Must by psychological
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    On self regulated. Could you run the program 3 days, but not squat on the middle day? I did 3 heavy days this week and after my 3rd session my right knee is sore. Nothing major, just wondering if my knees won’t suit 3 heavy squat sessions a week
    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    No rules, you might get 14-15 the first set, and only 10 the second set, when you "pass".

    And yes its still "hypertrophy work". A strength program would be 90-120 minutes and have multiple multiple low rep sets with 3min+ rest times.
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  20. #350
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    Originally Posted by nezaboy View Post
    On self regulated. Could you run the program 3 days, but not squat on the middle day? I did 3 heavy days this week and after my 3rd session my right knee is sore. Nothing major, just wondering if my knees won’t suit 3 heavy squat sessions a week
    Doesnt really matter. Id say you need to practice a lift at least once every 10 days just to maintain it. Plus greyskull has you squatting twice a week away

    Just remember now you are only doing 4 sets a week, and at some point you will lower the volume to the point where you will not grow, no matter how heavy you go.
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  21. #351
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    would it make more sense to do squats 2 days but 3 sets each? Or maybe middle day lighter? Or is the two days with 4 sets not going to stop progress until way down the line?
    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    Doesnt really matter. Id say you need to practice a lift at least once every 10 days just to maintain it. Plus greyskull has you squatting twice a week away

    Just remember now you are only doing 4 sets a week, and at some point you will lower the volume to the point where you will not grow, no matter how heavy you go.
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  22. #352
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    Originally Posted by nezaboy View Post
    would it make more sense to do squats 2 days but 3 sets each? Or maybe middle day lighter? Or is the two days with 4 sets not going to stop progress until way down the line?
    We are getting way off the auto regulated plantation, which is why i kinda wanted to avoid even the first reply....

    But 2 days 4 sets should be good till around 10 reps of 1.0-1.25x bw @ 13%. By contrast, Heavy- Heavy with 3 sets of squats, is good for normal 1.25-1.5x bw for 10 reps at @13%.

    Or of you want to go completely off the map, the The Viking's The Bare Bones Series does have a 32 rep 3 set pattern with squats 2 days a week.
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  23. #353
    Registered User nezaboy's Avatar
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    Oh ok I’m fine with 4 sets for a few months then by the looks of it!
    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    We are getting way off the auto regulated plantation, which is why i kinda wanted to avoid even the first reply....

    But 2 days 4 sets should be good till around 10 reps of 1.0-1.25x bw @ 13%. By contrast, Heavy- Heavy with 3 sets of squats, is good for normal 1.25-1.5x bw for 10 reps at @13%.

    Or of you want to go completely off the map, the The Viking's The Bare Bones Series does have a 32 rep 3 set pattern with squats 2 days a week.
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    Although just reading up about some stuff and I think my IT band is tight as it’s really tight and achy below my hip on the side. So this could be causing knee pain also?
    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    We are getting way off the auto regulated plantation, which is why i kinda wanted to avoid even the first reply....

    But 2 days 4 sets should be good till around 10 reps of 1.0-1.25x bw @ 13%. By contrast, Heavy- Heavy with 3 sets of squats, is good for normal 1.25-1.5x bw for 10 reps at @13%.

    Or of you want to go completely off the map, the The Viking's The Bare Bones Series does have a 32 rep 3 set pattern with squats 2 days a week.
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  25. #355
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    Originally Posted by nezaboy View Post
    Although just reading up about some stuff and I think my IT band is tight as it’s really tight and achy below my hip on the side. So this could be causing knee pain also?
    The IT band is a steel cable. You can not "stretch it" when you are stretching your IT band, you are just stretching your arse.

    back of knee pain is normally from locking knees at the top
    front/center knee pain is normally from changing directions mid hinge, aka half squatting etc
    inner knee pain is from collapsing your knees together to relieve stress from the primary muscles when you get tired
    Outer knee pain is not normally lifting related...
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    Q15: The starting diet
    A:

    Your first goal is to get to 13% as quickly as manageable.
    Your end goal is BMI 24 while at 13% body fat. This normally is around the 9-12 month mark. This is normally achieved by cutting to bmi 22-23, and then slow bulking till bmi 25(to reach graduation lifting stats), followed by a 1-2 cycle cut.

    100g of fat. 100g of protein. 200-300g of carbs. This is 2100-2500 cals. This should cover just about everyone that is 5.8-6.2. Adjust from there to the point you are going up or down at least 1kg per cycle. You can not "recomp" on this program. But but its only 100g of protein and really high in fat. Look your body sucks at performing off of a protein energy source, and is perfectly capable of making non essential amino acids out of carbs. Fat can be reduced to 50g if you know how to feed yourself. The bro diet of rice, chicken breast, and olive/coconut oil is not a good fat profile for 50g. But but 1g per pound of body weight protein requirement. When you can cut at 3500-4000 calories, it will be almost impossible to not get in 1g per pound, but you can not cut those macro ratios in half and make it a 2000 calorie diet.
    I'm currently 230lb, 25% bf, and 27.9BMI. I just finished test day and was planning on recomping on this program until I saw the above text.

    Is there another recommended program for recomping instead? Or should I just run this program ensuring I get my cardio in and eat at -500 TDEE (2k cals)?
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    Originally Posted by TheAnarchist View Post
    I'm currently 230lb, 25% bf, and 27.9BMI. I just finished test day and was planning on recomping on this program until I saw the above text.

    Is there another recommended program for recomping instead? Or should I just run this program ensuring I get my cardio in and eat at -500 TDEE (2k cals)?
    It is my opinion that anyone who wants to "recomp" is doomed to failure. They dont want to lose the "weight" because they think they will look small. They are not going to gain any muscle, they are just going to get good at the lifts and vastly increase endurance.

    The above is the same for you or someone who is bmi 18. You will need to get to bmi 22 before you start the slow bulk.

    If you are extremely overweight you have even more bad news from me. You will not gain a lick of muscle on any program period. Fat folk already have more muscle than a good lifter lifting 18 months. Its just under all that fat, and you have to work really hard and eat really light, to maintain all that muscle while you strip the fat away.


    But the only folks ive seen successfully recomp, are ex foot ball players that got fat over 5 years, and just stripped all the fat off, and did it really fast since they already knew how to lift. And even they didnt "recomp" since body weight went down 30-40lbs, they just look "bigger".

    You didnt give me your full numbers, but im a wizard.

    YOUR LEAN BODY MASS: 172.5 LBS

    Add 13%

    195lbs at 13% without gaining a lick of muscle.

    Now to be at 195lbs @ 13% bmi 24, you would have to be 6 foot 4....

    Feel free to crunch your own numbers, but you have to be gods gift to lifting to be bmi 25 @ 13% after 18-24 months of getting off the couch even if you are bmi 28 or 18.

    Alan thraw on youtube is like 6.2 and 180lbs @ 10% and is an elite lifter/coach. he lost 2lbs of muscle cutting down from a fluffy 250lbs.
    Last edited by nightanole; 04-21-2021 at 04:26 AM.
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    It is my opinion that anyone who wants to "recomp" is doomed to failure. They dont want to lose the "weight" because they think they will look small. They are not going to gain any muscle, they are just going to get good at the lifts and vastly increase endurance.

    The above is the same for you or someone who is bmi 18. You will need to get to bmi 22 before you start the slow bulk.

    If you are extremely overweight you have even more bad news from me. You will not gain a lick of muscle on any program period. Fat folk already have more muscle than a good lifter lifting 18 months. Its just under all that fat, and you have to work really hard and eat really light, to maintain all that muscle while you strip the fat away.


    But the only folks ive seen successfully recomp, are ex foot ball players that got fat over 5 years, and just stripped all the fat off, and did it really fast since they already knew how to lift. And even they didnt "recomp" since body weight went down 30-40lbs, they just look "bigger".

    You didnt give me your full numbers, but im a wizard.

    YOUR LEAN BODY MASS: 172.5 LBS

    Add 13%

    195lbs at 13% without gaining a lick of muscle.

    Now to be at 195lbs @ 13% bmi 24, you would have to be 6 foot 4....

    Feel free to crunch your own numbers, but you have to be gods gift to lifting to be bmi 25 @ 13% after 18-24 months of getting off the couch even if you are bmi 28 or 18.

    Alan thraw on youtube is like 6.2 and 180lbs @ 10% and is an elite lifter/coach. he lost 2lbs of muscle cutting down from a fluffy 250lbs.
    The accuracy in those numbers confirms your wizard status.

    I was under the belief that I could convert that fat to muscle if I ate at maintenance or slightly below. You've convinced me to just cut since I have a lot of fat loss to go (35lbs).

    If my TDEE is currently ~2450, would you recommend cutting at a 750-1k deficit until I reach 195lb (or whatever 13% is after some inevitable muscle loss) while running this program and not expecting substantial lift increases? I'd be lifting MWF, and 45-60min of steady state on the elliptical on off days.
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    Originally Posted by TheAnarchist View Post
    The accuracy in those numbers confirms your wizard status.

    I was under the belief that I could convert that fat to muscle if I ate at maintenance or slightly below. You've convinced me to just cut since I have a lot of fat loss to go (35lbs).

    If my TDEE is currently ~2450, would you recommend cutting at a 750-1k deficit until I reach 195lb (or whatever 13% is after some inevitable muscle loss) while running this program and not expecting substantial lift increases? I'd be lifting MWF, and 45-60min of steady state on the elliptical on off days.
    I tell people they need to be going up or down at least 1kg per cycle on this program.

    I tell people the canary in the coal mine is week 3 (10 rep week). Folks cutting i tell them to only under eat to the point were they are still getting all the reps in on week 3. This proves that you are not under eating to the point where "performance" suffers, which over time will lead to muscle loss. This is considered a "deep cut" as you will only be able to maintain lifts, not "pass".

    A lighter cut would have you passing every other or every 3rd cycle till you get to a below 24 bmi, and then you start the slow bulk.

    And it sounds like you have the cardio down, as i recomend about 2.5 hours of steady state cardio per week to keep fatigue down and recovery up. This is normally around 3 45min jogs per week, around 5-10k each depending on your fitness level.

    And you should be losing muscle at all till you hit your genetic limit somewhere in the teens of bodyfat levels. Some of the more blessed can have abs at 18%(built like a bull dog with lots of back fat), while some have to all the way down to 12%(look like a pear with stick arms/legs when 18%).
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    I like the idea of adding chin-ups to the program (and I know you are okay with this given the FAQ) so that there is a vertical compound pulling movement as well. In your opinion, would it be better to replace curls with chinups and focus on chinup progression, or would it be better to keep doing curls and add chinups as an additional exercise? I guess I'm not sure if curls will interfere with chinup progression. I am many cycles into the program and making good progress.
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