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  1. #181
    Registered User Streetjudas's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    If you have recovery issues, do accessories and cardio directly after the workout, so you are not "robbing" recovery. If you want to put a lot of effort into the accessories(personal goals, sports, armed forces PT test) and cardio, yes you can do the 6 days with accessories/cardio on off days.
    Got it! Furthermore. I am 191 lbs and 5'10 and what I assume to be mid to upper 20s in terms of body fat. What are your thoughts on cutting 2 lbs per week on this program? Would you say this is acceptable for someone overweight such as myself?
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  2. #182
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Streetjudas View Post
    Got it! Furthermore. I am 191 lbs and 5'10 and what I assume to be mid to upper 20s in terms of body fat. What are your thoughts on cutting 2 lbs per week on this program? Would you say this is acceptable for someone overweight such as myself?
    Funny, the last poster has your stats. I ran some numbers for him, so they should apply to you too.

    But you have a few choices:

    Cut as quickly as possible, with the goal of not missing reps till after 10 rep week. This means you are not under eating to the point performance is suffering. You will never pass a test day...

    Cut at around 1-2kg per cycle, with a goal of passing every other test day. As you get closer to the teens of body fat percentages, the harder it will be to maintain a 2kg per cycle rate.

    Once you hit around 13%(flexed abs, smooth when relaxed), its going to be VERY hard to cut while maintaining lifts. Around that time biology kicks in, and you will start losing a pound of muscle per 3-4lbs of body fat.
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  3. #183
    Registered User Streetjudas's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    Funny, the last poster has your stats. I ran some numbers for him, so they should apply to you too.

    But you have a few choices:

    Cut as quickly as possible, with the goal of not missing reps till after 10 rep week. This means you are not under eating to the point performance is suffering. You will never pass a test day...

    Cut at around 1-2kg per cycle, with a goal of passing every other test day. As you get closer to the teens of body fat percentages, the harder it will be to maintain a 2kg per cycle rate.

    Once you hit around 13%(flexed abs, smooth when relaxed), its going to be VERY hard to cut while maintaining lifts. Around that time biology kicks in, and you will start losing a pound of muscle per 3-4lbs of body fat.

    Sorry my english is not the best lmao. What are cycles? Is that each 5 weeks? Secondly my plan was also not to cut 2lbs per week until I reach 13%. It was more so to keep it up until I reach maybe 16% or so, and from there switch it up t0 1 lbs per week. I also don't think I 100% understand what you mean with test day? Also, since I am completely a beginner when it comes to lifting. How exactly am I supposed to go from my heaviest to 10% less to then 20% less when I most likely wont be able to even handle much weight as it is for the first few weeks regardless?
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  4. #184
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Streetjudas View Post
    Sorry my english is not the best lmao. What are cycles? Is that each 5 weeks? Secondly my plan was also not to cut 2lbs per week until I reach 13%. It was more so to keep it up until I reach maybe 16% or so, and from there switch it up t0 1 lbs per week. I also don't think I 100% understand what you mean with test day? Also, since I am completely a beginner when it comes to lifting. How exactly am I supposed to go from my heaviest to 10% less to then 20% less when I most likely wont be able to even handle much weight as it is for the first few weeks regardless?
    A cycle is 5 weeks.

    A test day is week 5 heavy day. If you get in all 12 reps for that lift, you "pass" and get to bump the weight at least 10% for next cycle.

    As for heavy weights, the only "problem" i have found is when a gym only has 20kg olympic bars, and 2.5kg change plates. You should have no problem if the gym has "standard" bars that weigh 5-10kg, with .5kg or 1.25kg change plates. I dont expect anyone to be OHP 20kg their first day. Ideally is when you can do heavy day with 55 pounds, because that means medium can be 50 pounds, and light just the 45 pound (20kg)bar.
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  5. #185
    Registered User Streetjudas's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    A cycle is 5 weeks.

    A test day is week 5 heavy day. If you get in all 12 reps for that lift, you "pass" and get to bump the weight at least 10% for next cycle.

    As for heavy weights, the only "problem" i have found is when a gym only has 20kg olympic bars, and 2.5kg change plates. You should have no problem if the gym has "standard" bars that weigh 5-10kg, with .5kg or 1.25kg change plates. I dont expect anyone to be OHP 20kg their first day. Ideally is when you can do heavy day with 55 pounds, because that means medium can be 50 pounds, and light just the 45 pound (20kg)bar.
    Okay that makes way more sense, thank you . The bars at the gym that I go to are 20kg. Also I am curious, do you also happen to run a discord server or anything where it may be a bit easier to ask certain question, or being able to chat with you in any way?
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  6. #186
    Registered User Streetjudas's Avatar
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    My first day ever at the gym is done, and i went chit. I forgot my buscard so I had to walk to the gym which was 40 minutes. Given my stats which you can find somewhere above and considering I am already overweight I ended up working a little bit of a sweat just getting there.

    For the exercises themselves:

    Calf Raises: This was my beginning exercise and it went through smooth and well, no issues here.


    Bench Presses: This actually went perfectly, there was however one problem. So I actually know the form and everything correctly when it comes to bench press. The problem was that I could initially find no barbells that weighed less than 20kg so I pushed through it and ended up using the 20kg barbell. I managed to get through all reps and sets here, although I felt my arm giving in towards the last rep of the last set.


    Squats: The day prior I had worked on squat form without weights because I didn't want to mess up the form when I finally got to the gym and what this resulted in was that even after 7 hours of sleep my hips were still affected to the point where I literally could not squat down. The main reason I was practicing this without weights and wanted to work on my form is because my hips are extremely weak to the point where I can barely squats correctly as it is, even without weights, and just attempting a few without weights puts a HUGE toll my hips to the point where I can barely even crouch down. I ended up getting through it by doing leg press instead and I managed to get through all the sets and reps. I know it may not be a substitute for squats, but it felt like it was better than doing absolutely nothing.



    Stiff-Legged Deadlifts: At this point I did manage to find a much smaller barbell. The issue was that this one was only 5kg, and the weights I found for it were only 2 who were each 5kg, so I managed to only get this one to 15kg. My form was absolutely horrible, but I kind of knew this would be an issue coming in. Even practicing without weights I was unable to fully get a straight back. I knew everything in regards to how to use correct form, except for the part with actually keeping a straight back, it rounded up the majority of times. It also did not help that the previous 20kg barbell took quite a huge toll. Probably because I didnt even warm up for that one since I again couldn't initially find a lighter barbell and there arent any less weights than the barbell without weights, so I just instantly went with that one instead and just did the benchpress without warmup.



    Barbell Curls: Again I used the 15kg barbell here, but after the benchpress, the stiff legged deadlifts and now this, as soon as I got through all sets and reps I was pretty much about to puke. I wanted to keep going, but I had no power whatsoever left in my arms and it was so extremely dissapointing since I have been planning on going to the gym and start my journey for such a long time now and I feel like I in a sense ended up giving up. In between reps of the barbell curls I started feeling like I was going to puke every time I was going to start a new set.




    This was as far as I managed to get before I just could not do it anymore. I am so extremely dissapointed in myself that I could not get through the last 2 lifts. I feel like if it wasn't for the fact that I was so close to puking (I was literally running down the stairs, 5 floor gym btw, into the bathroom because I felt it coming lol). I feel like essentially everything went wrong. First of all walking for 40 minutes in ice cold snow I feel had quite an effect on my energy since I never usually walk for that long and I don't do sports or anything so my conditioning is not good. I do however feel like what screwed me over was the fact that I went through with that benchpress. Even if I managed to get through it, it took such a huge toll in regards to anything that I was able to lift, to the point where every other lifting exercise after that was extremely difficult.

    After all of this was overwith and I was done and completely drained out, then I had to walk back the same route home, after working out for my first time every and everything hurt. My 40 minute walk to get to the gym was a 1 hour 10 minute walk back home due to how slow I was walking and due to the pauses where I just stood there because I physically felt like I could not move my legs too much.

    I am now writing this, laying in my bed with my body feeling absolutely busted. Overall I rate this experience 1/10. The reason for 1 is that I actually took the steps to go to the gym and I enjoyed it for the time I was there. However, just about everything went wrong. Not only could I not complete all 7 exercises, but I had to also switch out the squat for the leg press. Very bad.
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  7. #187
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    Originally Posted by nezaboy View Post
    Ok so I’ll need to add some running into my routine then? This will likely increase my calories needs too?
    You can easily do this in a week's time by eating less and moving more. If you have a strict diet and exercise plan then this can be helpful.
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  8. #188
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Streetjudas View Post




    This was as far as I managed to get before I just could not do it anymore. I am so extremely dissapointed in myself that I could not get through the last 2 lifts. I feel like if it wasn't for the fact that I was so close to puking (I was literally running down the stairs, 5 floor gym btw, into the bathroom because I felt it coming lol). I feel like essentially everything went wrong. First of all walking for 40 minutes in ice cold snow I feel had quite an effect on my energy since I never usually walk for that long and I don't do sports or anything so my conditioning is not good. I do however feel like what screwed me over was the fact that I went through with that benchpress. Even if I managed to get through it, it took such a huge toll in regards to anything that I was able to lift, to the point where every other lifting exercise after that was extremely difficult.

    After all of this was overwith and I was done and completely drained out, then I had to walk back the same route home, after working out for my first time every and everything hurt. My 40 minute walk to get to the gym was a 1 hour 10 minute walk back home due to how slow I was walking and due to the pauses where I just stood there because I physically felt like I could not move my legs too much.

    I am now writing this, laying in my bed with my body feeling absolutely busted. Overall I rate this experience 1/10. The reason for 1 is that I actually took the steps to go to the gym and I enjoyed it for the time I was there. However, just about everything went wrong. Not only could I not complete all 7 exercises, but I had to also switch out the squat for the leg press. Very bad.

    Bench press you will probably fail and have to repeat with the same weight a few cycles till you can honestly handle the weight. This is neither bad or good. And yes "maxing out" or missing reps will take a severe toll on your energy, i say stop early at a sloooow rep vs trying to push through. You are allowed to miss reps or stop a set early every day but test day.

    Squats i have an idea. Dont do them at the gym. Instead do "box squats" at home using a broom handle or pipe to mimic the bar. Box squats are simple, you take a wide stance, and try to squat without your knees moving forward much. You should end up sitting on a chair or box, with your hip crease below the top of your knee (below parallel) and your shins if you sit correctly and had the correct stance, should be perpendicular in all directions (straight up from the floor). Then you just have to get up off the box, without the knees traveling forward, else its a bad box squat. Do 2 sets with the 90 seconds of rest, for as many reps as possible before you get a sloooow rep. After a cycle to 8 weeks, you should be ready for the gym.

    SLDL i discribed in the FAQ. But at first i dont expect anyone to get the bar past the knees with good form. If you can only get mid quad before you round your back, that is ok. The goal is to increase your range, not move big heavy weight.


    But the rest of your complaints seem normal. Everyone who has not ran this program before thinks its real easy compared to other beginner routines. Since this program is fatigue based Everyone ends up feeling like you even though they are using "light" weights.


    I would suggest starting the recommended cardio (3 45 minute sessions at a pace you can still carry a conversation with someone while doing it) as soon as possible to increase your endurance and to increase your recovery.
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  9. #189
    Registered User Streetjudas's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    Bench press you will probably fail and have to repeat with the same weight a few cycles till you can honestly handle the weight. This is neither bad or good. And yes "maxing out" or missing reps will take a severe toll on your energy, i say stop early at a sloooow rep vs trying to push through. You are allowed to miss reps or stop a set early every day but test day.

    Squats i have an idea. Dont do them at the gym. Instead do "box squats" at home using a broom handle or pipe to mimic the bar. Box squats are simple, you take a wide stance, and try to squat without your knees moving forward much. You should end up sitting on a chair or box, with your hip crease below the top of your knee (below parallel) and your shins if you sit correctly and had the correct stance, should be perpendicular in all directions (straight up from the floor). Then you just have to get up off the box, without the knees traveling forward, else its a bad box squat. Do 2 sets with the 90 seconds of rest, for as many reps as possible before you get a sloooow rep. After a cycle to 8 weeks, you should be ready for the gym.

    SLDL i discribed in the FAQ. But at first i dont expect anyone to get the bar past the knees with good form. If you can only get mid quad before you round your back, that is ok. The goal is to increase your range, not move big heavy weight.


    But the rest of your complaints seem normal. Everyone who has not ran this program before thinks its real easy compared to other beginner routines. Since this program is fatigue based Everyone ends up feeling like you even though they are using "light" weights.


    I would suggest starting the recommended cardio (3 45 minute sessions at a pace you can still carry a conversation with someone while doing it) as soon as possible to increase your endurance and to increase your recovery.
    Thanks for your response. I understand what you are saying, but if I choose to do the box squats at home, can I replace that with legpress at the gym then? I would still not want to reduce the amount of work I am supposed to do at the gym, and again I realize it's not the best substitute, but wouldn't it still be the closest thing I can get? So I would basically continue by switching out the squat with the leg press which I did today, then when I get home I can do the box squats?


    Edit: I forgot to add that in regards to the bench press. In the room where the bench press is done, there are only these 20kg barbells so I have to keep working with them, like I said though I can get through it. The problem for the other exercises is that other than that there are the "barbells" laying around on a different floor with like 2,5kg - 5kg weight and other than that there are dumbells. It's tricky but with bench press I am forced to use the barbell, and for the other exercises I can use the smaller barbell, but I wont be able to use the smaller barbell for bench.
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  10. #190
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Streetjudas View Post
    Thanks for your response. I understand what you are saying, but if I choose to do the box squats at home, can I replace that with legpress at the gym then? I would still not want to reduce the amount of work I am supposed to do at the gym, and again I realize it's not the best substitute, but wouldn't it still be the closest thing I can get? So I would basically continue by switching out the squat with the leg press which I did today, then when I get home I can do the box squats?


    Edit: I forgot to add that in regards to the bench press. In the room where the bench press is done, there are only these 20kg barbells so I have to keep working with them, like I said though I can get through it. The problem for the other exercises is that other than that there are the "barbells" laying around on a different floor with like 2,5kg - 5kg weight and other than that there are dumbells. It's tricky but with bench press I am forced to use the barbell, and for the other exercises I can use the smaller barbell, but I wont be able to use the smaller barbell for bench.

    The leg press is not a substitute for the squat. The leg press will not help improve your squat. The leg press helps fill out your quads for cosmetics.


    As for the bench press, since you have a fixed weight, try switching it to "auto regulated". The link is in the 2nd post of this thread.
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  11. #191
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    SLDL alternative?

    Hi Night,
    I have made sure to do the SLDL with correct form (as per the videos here and your description). No matter what, SLDL causes pain in my right knee (other exercises don't). Can i do RDL instead (since it doesn't hurt my knee) or do you have another recomendation? I hate to change things if i don't have to since this program has done wonders for me.
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    Originally Posted by neuralfusion011 View Post
    Hi Night,
    I have made sure to do the SLDL with correct form (as per the videos here and your description). No matter what, SLDL causes pain in my right knee (other exercises don't). Can i do RDL instead (since it doesn't hurt my knee) or do you have another recomendation? I hate to change things if i don't have to since this program has done wonders for me.
    Which part of the knee hurts? Alot of people "chicken leg" them and get pain in the back of the knee from hyper extending. But considering you should not be using your knees, i wonder what is up...

    I define a RDL as just a eccentric rep standard form deadlift. Its not and ideal sub but it works. You just need an exercise that fully extends the ham strings, and bonus if it builds lower back strength.
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    Which part of the knee hurts? Alot of people "chicken leg" them and get pain in the back of the knee from hyper extending. But considering you should not be using your knees, i wonder what is up...

    I define a RDL as just a eccentric rep standard form deadlift. Its not and ideal sub but it works. You just need an exercise that fully extends the ham strings, and bonus if it builds lower back strength.
    Interestingly it is the front of my right knee that hurts. Even with a bent knee it still feels like its on fire. Oddly enough it doesnt hurt when i squat.
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  14. #194
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    Originally Posted by neuralfusion011 View Post
    Interestingly it is the front of my right knee that hurts. Even with a bent knee it still feels like its on fire. Oddly enough it doesnt hurt when i squat.
    You have a not so happy patellar tendon. That would explain why it hurts less in the squat. This can also be called jumpers or runners knee.

    Tell yea the truth, if you can do the box squats like i described above, i would give that a shot. It is a very ham/posterior dominant squat, and equalizes tension on the knee. Then you can drop the SLDL all together for a few cycles.

    If you want to make up the volume, you can always do 1 or 2 extra sets of box squats of your light day working weight, at the end of each workout.
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    Registered User neuralfusion011's Avatar
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    Makes sense, thanks for the reply. Would you say in the meantime stretching out the quada and hammies real goosld might help the knee?
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    Originally Posted by neuralfusion011 View Post
    Makes sense, thanks for the reply. Would you say in the meantime stretching out the quada and hammies real goosld might help the knee?
    Ive never found a study that says stretching does anything of value. As rippetoe put it "you cant length a muscle without surgery". And to the opposite, we have known for 30 years that static stretching temporarily reduces strength for 10s of minutes.

    Im a "heal in motion" kinda guy. Light weight(or no weight) for high reps.

    There is 2 things that come to mind you can do.

    "bicycles" (where you lay on the floor and prop your butt up with your hands and pretend to ride a bicycle". I think they are also called air bikes etc. You dont want the slow extend leg "crunch" style. You want the fast motion "riding a bicycle" version. a few sets for 2-3 min. Aka a completely unloaded full knee flexion exercise.

    The other is to do "band traction" on your ankles for a min or so on each ankle, and then immediately do 10-20 body weight squats. This will teach your CNS that it can lengthen the muscles without worry of damage. This will cause your knees to travel more forward in the squat and have less torque on them. This over time will make your weighted squat easier on your knees.
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  17. #197
    Registered User nezaboy's Avatar
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    So I’ve just completed test day on cycle 3. I had my first fail today. Bench has been really tough all cycle for me and I only got 11 reps on my second set. I had a feeling I would fail this.

    My squat just just passed. I could not have got another rep in. I’m considering if I should repeat the weight for this cycle. But the issue being my squat is already low since I swapped over to the high bar squat. If I pass squat then my new weights are as below.

    What are you thoughts now? Shall I add something into my routine at the end?

    Squat 65
    Bench 65
    Row 65
    Sldl 67
    OHP 38
    Curls 28
    Calf 28
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  18. #198
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by nezaboy View Post
    So I’ve just completed test day on cycle 3. I had my first fail today. Bench has been really tough all cycle for me and I only got 11 reps on my second set. I had a feeling I would fail this.

    My squat just just passed. I could not have got another rep in. I’m considering if I should repeat the weight for this cycle. But the issue being my squat is already low since I swapped over to the high bar squat. If I pass squat then my new weights are as below.

    What are you thoughts now? Shall I add something into my routine at the end?

    Squat 65
    Bench 65
    Row 65
    Sldl 67
    OHP 38
    Curls 28
    Calf 28
    On light day try for 10 reps of 110% squat weight, for 1 set. If you can do it then you should be gold for next cycle. Else repeat the weight.


    As far as an accessory for the squat. Your squat is way under your body weight, so i would do a heavy accessory to get rid of / reveal and inefficient form. So at the end of the workout do one or 2 sets of something you can only manage 2-3 reps with with good form. Odds are this will be around 110-125%. And you can do this every workout as long as you are not missing reps in the squat. If you can get in 4 reps, up the weight.
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    And for bench where I failed I should keep the weight and go back to 8 reps? What’s the reason that lift can’t be bumped say 5%? Is there any particular reason for that?
    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    On light day try for 10 reps of 110% squat weight, for 1 set. If you can do it then you should be gold for next cycle. Else repeat the weight.


    As far as an accessory for the squat. Your squat is way under your body weight, so i would do a heavy accessory to get rid of / reveal and inefficient form. So at the end of the workout do one or 2 sets of something you can only manage 2-3 reps with with good form. Odds are this will be around 110-125%. And you can do this every workout as long as you are not missing reps in the squat. If you can get in 4 reps, up the weight.
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  20. #200
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by nezaboy View Post
    And for bench where I failed I should keep the weight and go back to 8 reps? What’s the reason that lift can’t be bumped say 5%? Is there any particular reason for that?
    Yes repeat bench weight.

    The pattern doesnt work for less than 10% bumps. What happens with 5% bumps is you spend 3 weeks below test day effort, 1 week at test day effort, and then magically you should be able to lift 5% more for test day.
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    Hello! You probably remember my post from #186

    Due to how affected my body was by everything, for days and days it hurt so badly that I could barely stand up, crouch down or even move around while I was in bed. It took me 6 days for all the pain to completely disappear and for me to be able to move normally again. I choose to wait rather than work through the pain because I knew that it would have made it completely impossible to do SLDL, rows, OHP and what not, which would most likely just make it a waste of time for me to go since I wouldn't gain anything from just working through unbearable pain. Anyways, in that previous post I said I didn't even get near to finish off the entire day. Today was my first day back. I got through everything, including the amount of reps needed, and now afterwards I am not feeling any pain what so ever, compraed to what I felt. It actually feels absolutely amazing compared to the first day. I am so happy that I managed to get through everything this time and it made me feel so much better compared to the last time I went. I would have thought that all that pain which I felt my first time going to the gym would keep on happening maybe for like the first week or so, but it literally only took that one first time and then me resting for a few days in order for me to get back to normal. Now I don't know if you are actually supposed to rest through it or not, but it worked for me, and like I said the pain was so horrible that I couldn't walk too fast, couldn't crouch or bow down, and then problems even moving around while laying down. Anyways thats my update.
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  22. #202
    Registered User neuralfusion011's Avatar
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    Lowering weights during cycle

    Hey Night it's me again. I know that changing weights during a cycle is not reccomended, but due to severe fatigue from work, 9 rep week on some lifts was unbelievably hard and form turned to ****. I would like to lower weights by 10%. If this is acceptable, should i just lower the weights and continue on with 9 rep week, or should i lower the weights and go back down to 8 reps?
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  23. #203
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by neuralfusion011 View Post
    Hey Night it's me again. I know that changing weights during a cycle is not reccomended, but due to severe fatigue from work, 9 rep week on some lifts was unbelievably hard and form turned to ****. I would like to lower weights by 10%. If this is acceptable, should i just lower the weights and continue on with 9 rep week, or should i lower the weights and go back down to 8 reps?
    Id rather you run this cycle with the auto-regulated variant. We know you can handle the weight just fine, you just cant handle the fatigue. I think even an additional set, 3 sets of a total of 12-15 reps for the session, would be better than dropping the working weight.

    Else yea you can drop the weight 10% and start with 9 rep week, and focus on trying to keep rest to a minimum on medium and light days as long as possible.
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  24. #204
    Registered User Bogladon's Avatar
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    Increasing weight by 10%?

    I have some rookie questions here, as I am confused.

    So the first 5 weeks pattern is as follows from what I understand:

    Week 1 - Monday(Heavy) , Wednesday(Medium) , Friday(Light)
    Week 2 - Monday(Heavy) , Wednesday(TEST DAY - MEDIUM) , Friday(?)

    I have 3 things on my mind.

    1. For test day - it would be in my best interest NOT to try and force all 12 reps in and go to failure, right? I want the final rep to be a struggle, but with 1-3 reps left in the tank, correct?

    2. So let's say I do that. I get all 12 reps in comfortably. According to Allpro, I now need to bump up the weight by 10%. 10% of what? I am assuming I increase my Week 1 Monday starting weights by 10%, and then reduce that number by 10% for medium and 20% for light days?

    3. So the 5th session is my test day and I succeeded, what does that mean for my 6th session - the last of Week 2? I was supposed to increase my numbers by 10%, so, therefore, am I now running the 6th session with my newly calculated figures where I increased session 1's numbers by 10% and then lowered them by 20%?

    I hope this makes sense. It was confusing to type, I am not a smart person. Thank you SO much to anyone who helps me here. nightanole, I see you are doing real work on this forum and I cant thank you enough for your generosity in helping people better themselves
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  25. #205
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Bogladon View Post
    I have some rookie questions here, as I am confused.

    So the first 5 weeks pattern is as follows from what I understand:

    Week 1 - Monday(Heavy) , Wednesday(Medium) , Friday(Light)
    Week 2 - Monday(Heavy) , Wednesday(TEST DAY - MEDIUM) , Friday(?)

    I have 3 things on my mind.

    1. For test day - it would be in my best interest NOT to try and force all 12 reps in and go to failure, right? I want the final rep to be a struggle, but with 1-3 reps left in the tank, correct?

    2. So let's say I do that. I get all 12 reps in comfortably. According to Allpro, I now need to bump up the weight by 10%. 10% of what? I am assuming I increase my Week 1 Monday starting weights by 10%, and then reduce that number by 10% for medium and 20% for light days?

    3. So the 5th session is my test day and I succeeded, what does that mean for my 6th session - the last of Week 2? I was supposed to increase my numbers by 10%, so, therefore, am I now running the 6th session with my newly calculated figures where I increased session 1's numbers by 10% and then lowered them by 20%?

    I hope this makes sense. It was confusing to type, I am not a smart person. Thank you SO much to anyone who helps me here. nightanole, I see you are doing real work on this forum and I cant thank you enough for your generosity in helping people better themselves
    In the almost 10 years ive helped this thread, this is the most confused person yet...

    Ok baby steps

    First week is 8 reps of heavy /medium/light
    second week is 9 reps
    3rd week is 10 reps
    4th is 11 reps
    " it is in your best interest NOT to try and force all reps in and go to failure for the above weeks, if you dont think you can make it due to lack of sleep etc, stop the set early. missed reps will bury you in fatigue"

    5th week heavy day is "test day". Its the only session where all reps count. If you get all reps comfortably, you bump heavy day by "at least" 10% and next week go back down to 8 reps. If you do the effort math, 2 sets of 12 @100% is the same as 2 sets of 9 @ 110%, we just give you 1 8 rep week to get used to the new weight.

    5th week medium and light day working weights are still the same as 4th week, just 12 reps


    Now if you just bump 10%, the new math is easy, last cycles heavy day is now this cycles medium day. Last cycles medium day is now this cycles light day.


    So n00bs can double the squat weight in 3 cycles just by learning the lift and fixing imbalances, if they start off with 55lbs or even a bare 45lb bar. Obviously if they have some lifting time under their belt and start with body weight, they are not doubling in 3 cycles, odds are they will fail every other cycle even with 10% bumps.
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    Registered User gokite's Avatar
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    Curious about my lifts. 50 years old. Bench is struggling. Looking for suggestions to keep bench on pace. I'm missing the first week 8 reps already and only raised 5lbs in weight. I feel as though this progression is not what my chest likes. Not sure what will work better it's always been tough for chest for me. Maybe on light day I do 4 sets instead of two because it seems like I don't get sore much? However I know my form is good because i "feel" it more on lighter days than heavy so thinking more volume is what my chest likes? Comments please:

    Exercise Weight Week 1
    Squat WU 54 bw
    Squat WU 109 115x8
    Squat 218 205x8
    Squat 218 205x8
    Bench WU 49 30s
    Bench WU 98 115x8
    Bench 197 200x7
    Bench 197 200x7
    BentOver Row WU 46 30s
    BentOver Row WU 92 45s
    BentOver Row 184 175x8
    BentOver Row 184 175x8
    Military Press 134 135x5
    Military Press 134 125x8 hard
    StiffLeg Deadlift 184 175x8
    StiffLeg Deadlift 184 175x8
    Barbell Curls 105 105x8
    Barbell Curls 105 105x8
    Calf Raises 58 1L52.5x8
    Calf Raises 58 1L52.5x8
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  27. #207
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by gokite View Post
    Curious about my lifts. 50 years old. Bench is struggling. Looking for suggestions to keep bench on pace. I'm missing the first week 8 reps already and only raised 5lbs in weight. I feel as though this progression is not what my chest likes. Not sure what will work better it's always been tough for chest for me. Maybe on light day I do 4 sets instead of two because it seems like I don't get sore much? However I know my form is good because i "feel" it more on lighter days than heavy so thinking more volume is what my chest likes? Comments please:

    Exercise Weight Week 1
    Squat WU 54 bw
    Squat WU 109 115x8
    Squat 218 205x8
    Squat 218 205x8
    Bench WU 49 30s
    Bench WU 98 115x8
    Bench 197 200x7
    Bench 197 200x7
    BentOver Row WU 46 30s
    BentOver Row WU 92 45s
    BentOver Row 184 175x8
    BentOver Row 184 175x8
    Military Press 134 135x5
    Military Press 134 125x8 hard
    StiffLeg Deadlift 184 175x8
    StiffLeg Deadlift 184 175x8
    Barbell Curls 105 105x8
    Barbell Curls 105 105x8
    Calf Raises 58 1L52.5x8
    Calf Raises 58 1L52.5x8
    Those lifts are well above average for starting beginner routine. Unfortunately at some point allpro progression becomes too fast, and volume becomes too low.

    If you are still going good other than bench, you can switch bench to 1 of 2 auto regulating patterns.

    First one is allpro "auto regulated". 2 AMRAP sets with 90 seconds or less rest, and i would add a 3rd set since you are at least an advanced novice, the 3rd set is just for volume, you dont have to track it. Once the combined rep total of the first 2 sets gets to at least 24 reps, you bump the weight 5-10% to knock you down to 12-16 reps again.

    The second pattern is the "10 sets of 3". You do sets of 3 using your current working weight, with 30 seconds of rest. you stop when you get a sloooooow rep with good form. Once you can get in all 10 sets (takes 7-10 minutes depending on the lift) you bump 5-10%, to knock the set total down to 5-6 sets again.
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    Also, I think Lift vault has an AllPro spreadsheet although I haven't used it.


    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    In the almost 10 years ive helped this thread, this is the most confused person yet...

    Ok baby steps

    First week is 8 reps of heavy /medium/light
    second week is 9 reps
    3rd week is 10 reps
    4th is 11 reps
    " it is in your best interest NOT to try and force all reps in and go to failure for the above weeks, if you dont think you can make it due to lack of sleep etc, stop the set early. missed reps will bury you in fatigue"

    5th week heavy day is "test day". Its the only session where all reps count. If you get all reps comfortably, you bump heavy day by "at least" 10% and next week go back down to 8 reps. If you do the effort math, 2 sets of 12 @100% is the same as 2 sets of 9 @ 110%, we just give you 1 8 rep week to get used to the new weight.

    5th week medium and light day working weights are still the same as 4th week, just 12 reps


    Now if you just bump 10%, the new math is easy, last cycles heavy day is now this cycles medium day. Last cycles medium day is now this cycles light day.


    So n00bs can double the squat weight in 3 cycles just by learning the lift and fixing imbalances, if they start off with 55lbs or even a bare 45lb bar. Obviously if they have some lifting time under their belt and start with body weight, they are not doubling in 3 cycles, odds are they will fail every other cycle even with 10% bumps.
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    Originally Posted by neuralfusion011 View Post
    Hi Night,
    I have made sure to do the SLDL with correct form (as per the videos here and your description). No matter what, SLDL causes pain in my right knee (other exercises don't). Can i do RDL instead (since it doesn't hurt my knee) or do you have another recomendation? I hate to change things if i don't have to since this program has done wonders for me.
    I feel like I'm in the twilight zone I cannot find these videos you're referring to. I used the search tool and looked through each post to no avail.

    I tried going to the old threads but they were so massive I had to resort to using the search tool, which strangely kept showing no results. I even tested out searching (using the search thread tool) words that I could literally see on the page and it kept telling me that there were no results.

    I'm a big believer in reading threads and using the search tool on forums, but in this case I'm at my wits end and have no choice but to make a post begging for help.

    My goal is to have a quality resource for SLDL form, but everything contradicts everything else.

    Typically I refer to Alan Thrall's youtube page, but wanted to try to refer to the canon form but it has proven to be incredibly elusive.

    The FAQ directions seem so different and it's mind boggling that one type of lift is described totally differently everywhere I look.

    If anyone can at least point me in the right direction I'm happy to search/read on my own but I could really use a hand.
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  30. #210
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ijustbluemyself View Post
    I feel like I'm in the twilight zone I cannot find these videos you're referring to. I used the search tool and looked through each post to no avail.

    I tried going to the old threads but they were so massive I had to resort to using the search tool, which strangely kept showing no results. I even tested out searching (using the search thread tool) words that I could literally see on the page and it kept telling me that there were no results.

    I'm a big believer in reading threads and using the search tool on forums, but in this case I'm at my wits end and have no choice but to make a post begging for help.

    My goal is to have a quality resource for SLDL form, but everything contradicts everything else.

    Typically I refer to Alan Thrall's youtube page, but wanted to try to refer to the canon form but it has proven to be incredibly elusive.

    The FAQ directions seem so different and it's mind boggling that one type of lift is described totally differently everywhere I look.

    If anyone can at least point me in the right direction I'm happy to search/read on my own but I could really use a hand.
    OP has the correct version for this program. There are at least 3 versions i know of. You could say we want the hamstring version.

    Scottherman on youtube has the correct version. If it matches OPs description, its the video to use.

    But there is also the "spinal erectors" version that you see pictures of Arnold doing. And there is another version that is basically a slow eccentric rep traditional deadlift. It pretty much is (or totally is) a RDL.


    If you still cant nail down the form in your mind, its basically an AmericanDeadlift...

    https://www.muscleandstrength.com/ex...rican-deadlift

    The only difference is you should (over time) be going much lower, and have the bar more over toes ( you notice the model has the bar so close to his shins at the bottom that he has to lift his toes to keep balance). Due to these slight differences, the American is a bit more butt, and a bit less ham.
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