AllPro: A Simple Beginner's Routine part VII

[SCRAS]

Hi nightanole,

Just checking in to ask for some expert honest feedback on progress.

3 cycles complete, into cycle 4. With 1 fortnight holiday and a week of influenza to disrupt mid-way through.

Starting stats were @ 172cm tall, 63.8kg light, and 14.5% bf. Cut to 12.9% bf before upping cals. My stats as of now are 65.3kgs at 13.6%bf.

My starting (heavy) weights for the programme were:
Squat: 60kg
Bench: 40kg
BB Row: 40kg
OHP: 20kg
SLDL: 40kg
Bicep curls: 10kg
Standing calf raises: 100 (unsure of units! Probably lbs?)

Weights for heavy cycle 4 are now:
Squat: 85kg
Bench: 55kg
BB Row: 50kg
OHP: 27.5kg
SLDL: 55kg
Bicep curls: 17.5kg
Standing calf raises: 140.

Can I please ask for feedback on balance - if anything looks proportionately low?

Appreciate progress (weight gains) may be a little low. Considering the interruptions with our holiday and illness, I’m fairly happy with it (and the visible gains).

Also, thinking I’m potentially 2 cycles away from graduating? I haven’t yet stalled on any cycle - despite missing a couple reps with OHP and curls on the odd 10/11 week set, all test days have passed.

Many thanks in advance :-)

[nightanole]

Hi nightanole,

Just checking in to ask for some expert honest feedback on progress.

3 cycles complete, into cycle 4. With 1 fortnight holiday and a week of influenza to disrupt mid-way through.

Starting stats were @ 172cm tall, 63.8kg light, and 14.5% bf. Cut to 12.9% bf before upping cals. My stats as of now are 65.3kgs at 13.6%bf.

My starting (heavy) weights for the programme were:
Squat: 60kg
Bench: 40kg
BB Row: 40kg
OHP: 20kg
SLDL: 40kg
Bicep curls: 10kg
Standing calf raises: 100 (unsure of units! Probably lbs?)

Weights for heavy cycle 4 are now:
Squat: 85kg
Bench: 55kg
BB Row: 50kg
OHP: 27.5kg
SLDL: 55kg
Bicep curls: 17.5kg
Standing calf raises: 140.

Can I please ask for feedback on balance - if anything looks proportionately low?

Appreciate progress (weight gains) may be a little low. Considering the interruptions with our holiday and illness, I’m fairly happy with it (and the visible gains).

Also, thinking I’m potentially 2 cycles away from graduating? I haven’t yet stalled on any cycle - despite missing a couple reps with OHP and curls on the odd 10/11 week set, all test days have passed.

Many thanks in advance :-)

And now that im done getting over the vid from x-mas break...

OHP is low, its only 50% of your bench. On the other hand your bench to bb row is great. And squat is higher than SLDL so that is also great.


As you get closer to graduating, stalling really ramps up. I dont expect 2 passes in a row and then graduating. At best most alternate passing the sister lift. So pass OHP fail bench, then pass bench and fail OHP.


But you maybe 2-3 cycles away other than your OHP. So if you havent already, you could start switching some of your lifts to "novice" for bench and squat, so you are not so gassed when you are doing the OHP. That extra rest really does help keep your cns from getting fried so you are not shaking and in some cases lips getting numb.

Remember your goal is to have a well rested set of 10 of bw bench. Its not passing a test day using your body weight.

[jasonp360]

As luck would have it (not planned at all) my test day doing the original All Pro Beginner Routine was Dec 31. And I was stoked to finally add and surpass my body weight in bench. But then I failed bench for the 2nd cycle in a row, after hitting 11 reps last week. Ugh.

My bench originally starting this workout was 95lbs. I added each cycle until 145lbs which I recently failed 3 cycles in a row. The 4th cycle of 145 I finally passed x 12 heavy day and moved bench up to 160 lbs - yay! But now this is the 2nd cycle I've failed 160 lbs bench.

I got week 8 reps, 9 reps, 10 reps, 11 reps in. Week 12 reps I was excited since I passed 11, what's one more rep? This is it! WTF? I could only muster 8 reps then 8 again, then I did 6, then did another 5 cause I was pissed off and wanted to at least get 24 reps of 160 in lol.

When I was stalled at 145 the 3 cycles things I tried out to pass it:
1) I changed my heavy test day to an evening workout instead of morning - better but still didn't pass at first
2) Sought out a coach to make sure my form was good - still working on this, it is much better now. I am learning to engage lats, "bend the bar", Arch, and lift the arc/angle line, not straight up. Bonus: tennis elbow went away.
3) After still failing 145 coach recommended two heavy days of bench. So instead of 100% 90% 80% I started doing 100% 100% 90% - only for Bench. On this cycle I passed 145 to 160lbs and I was so happy!

I kept up the 100% 100% 90% for the 1st 160lb cycle and made it to 10 reps then failed 11 and 12 rep weeks, no biggie I can repeat 160.
I repeated the 100% 100% 90% for bench 160lbs this last cycle again and made it to 11 rep week, then somehow failed 12 reps miserably yesterday!

My plan is to try again for 12 reps x 2 sets one more time this week @ 160 lbs. Is that cheating? Maybe I just had an off day?

Background:

49 years old 6'2 I've gone from 155lbs bodyweight to 170lbs doing this program. I'm turning 50 soon and I wanted my birthday present to myself to rep 12x 175 (more then my body weight) but that's only a month away now. Ugh. My ultimate goal is to rep two plates before I'm too old and broken. Then keep that up for as long as possible...

Macros - I eat 150-170 grams of protein a day, pre-diabetic so all my carbs are good complex slow release carbs no junk. I sleep 7-8 hours a night. I really try for 8h but wake up in the morning "done" after 7 hours 2-3 days a week.
I do stretch yoga classes 2-3 times a week on off days - no strength poses just all the YIN stuff an hour each time.

Weights on my test day yesterday:
Squats 190 - PASSED! Get to up it!
Bench 160 - FAILED - will try again this week, will that count if I make it?
Bent over rows 125 PASSED! Get to up it!
Overhead Barbell Press 75 PASSED! Get to up it. I've failed this exercise before but not since coach helped with form. I feel it should be higher, this pass wasn't that hard so I think it will get there in a couple more cycles easily.
Stiff Leg Deads 215 PASSED! Get to up it! My overhand grip is starting to be challenging. I tried hook once and it hurt, will need to practice hook more I guess.
Upright Barbell Row 70 PASSED! Get to up it! This feels light still, I started with just 25 Lbs it was a new exercise in my life and I wanted to make sure I nailed the form. I'm doing this instead of curls.
Calf Raises 215 PASSED! Get to up it!

Do I keep plugging away and just keep repeating bench cycles as they fail, while increasing the shoulders? Or should I change something up to get bench to pass more?

[SCRAS]

And now that im done getting over the vid from x-mas break...

OHP is low, its only 50% of your bench. On the other hand your bench to bb row is great. And squat is higher than SLDL so that is also great.


As you get closer to graduating, stalling really ramps up. I dont expect 2 passes in a row and then graduating. At best most alternate passing the sister lift. So pass OHP fail bench, then pass bench and fail OHP.


But you maybe 2-3 cycles away other than your OHP. So if you havent already, you could start switching some of your lifts to "novice" for bench and squat, so you are not so gassed when you are doing the OHP. That extra rest really does help keep your cns from getting fried so you are not shaking and in some cases lips getting numb.

Remember your goal is to have a well rested set of 10 of bw bench. Its not passing a test day using your body weight.

Thanks for your reply Nightanole. Happy New Year!

The OHP does get me shaking in the latter couple weeks in the cycle. I guess this is the CNS struggling to keep up. Is your suggestion to switch to ‘novis’ for the BP and squat, so that I would have a little extra breathing space/capacity for the subsequent lifts to develop in the first few weeks of a cycle (i.e. where ‘novis’ starts at 4 reps for 3 sets)?

And a second question, would you do this switch now, or wait until I have stalled in 1 or 2 cycles (as still not stalled on test day yet)?

Thanks again for your help.

[nightanole]

Thanks for your reply Nightanole. Happy New Year!

The OHP does get me shaking in the latter couple weeks in the cycle. I guess this is the CNS struggling to keep up. Is your suggestion to switch to ‘novis’ for the BP and squat, so that I would have a little extra breathing space/capacity for the subsequent lifts to develop in the first few weeks of a cycle (i.e. where ‘novis’ starts at 4 reps for 3 sets)?

And a second question, would you do this switch now, or wait until I have stalled in 1 or 2 cycles (as still not stalled on test day yet)?

Thanks again for your help.

I generally suggest switching to novice around body weight for squat and some time around 1 plate for bench. Yes you can iron man and just do 2x12 for the entire program, but it gets HARD towards the end due to cns fatigue.

Novice has a deeper deload and a faster ramp up. It also tricks people into thinking they can increase the working weight, because it tops out at 8 reps. They learn that lesson real quick

And novice is only for the first 3 big lifts (squat/bench/row) the rest of the lifts are always 2x12.

Most people are going to need 2-3 cycles of novice on at least a lift or two in order to graduate.

[jasonp360]

Thank you

I see that applies to me too - switch to novice for the first three exercises. Stoked to change it up with good direction! Thank you for continuing to post here. I love this workout.

I ended up finishing the last vanilla cycle with regular medium and light days, not trying another 2x12 test on bench.

Then caught a man-cold that could be deadly! lol

Instead of beating myself up I will take a few days off and start up on the Novice 3x4-8 rep routine as soon as I have energy.

Thanks again!

[GanjaPossum]

Really considering this and bulking after 3.5 years off because of a illness + surgery, if I'm remembering correctly my main lifts were:
Bench: 210
Squat: 385
Deadlift: 450
OHP: 170
Rows: 160
Forgot curls, calf raises, and weighted dips/pull ups. Was around 190, got down to about 130 in less than 2 months, now about 148 at 5'5". Being sick and bedridden I lost a lot of weight, and not much of it was fat bizarrely enough, so I'm in that skinny-fat phase with little muscle currently, been doing BW exercises and jogging recently, but, I really don't want to cut to a low bf% and look like a pale stick again, and I know I'll gain BF during a bulk but I kinda don't give a **** about getting lean until I get strength/muscle back.

I'm just not sure if I should lift heavy and low reps or do a program like this. Thoughts?

I'm 30 not 54, won't let me change

[viriata]

Love it, I join this program!!!

[nightanole]

Really considering this and bulking after 3.5 years off because of a illness + surgery, if I'm remembering correctly my main lifts were:
Bench: 210
Squat: 385
Deadlift: 450
OHP: 170
Rows: 160
Forgot curls, calf raises, and weighted dips/pull ups. Was around 190, got down to about 130 in less than 2 months, now about 148 at 5'5". Being sick and bedridden I lost a lot of weight, and not much of it was fat bizarrely enough, so I'm in that skinny-fat phase with little muscle currently, been doing BW exercises and jogging recently, but, I really don't want to cut to a low bf% and look like a pale stick again, and I know I'll gain BF during a bulk but I kinda don't give a **** about getting lean until I get strength/muscle back.

I'm just not sure if I should lift heavy and low reps or do a program like this. Thoughts?

I'm 30 not 54, won't let me change

Generally allpro is not a bulking program. If you think you can get six months out of the program, you could start with the autoregulated variant as i have no clue how fast your gains would be due to the bulk and hitting those numbers previously.

[jasonp360]

Well I was sicker for longer then anticipated and it was driving me nuts. Finally last week I did 3 workouts with 70% weights just to get moving again and mitigate the DOMS I get after a long rest.

Last night I did the Novice Variant for the first time, doing 3x4 reps for Squat, Bench, Rows.

LOVE IT!

I had to adjust squat a little, I estimated too heavy for 4 reps and started leaning forwards and felt my lower back engage on a rep. I lowered 20lbs and cranked out two more 4 rep sets in good form. Luckily I listened in time and back is 100% normal, no soreness.
Bench I upped to 175 from 160 and did 3x4 no problem!!! Stoked, as I am "repping" more then BW. FINALLY.

I'M BACK BABY!!!!!!

One other change is I am listening to the diet, to hopefully get more energy. When I look at the "Lose It" app that I've been tracking macros for the past six months carbs are too low vs. the recommendations below. My Fats have been spot on, so I am allocating some protein calories/grams to good carbs instead. This is easy, I just skip a shake or so and eat some more quality carbs with meals instead. I think it'll work well to put more gas in the tank. I'm tracking my blood sugar levels too, as I had an issue to 6.0. With diet got A1C back to 5.7, so I do need to make sure of spikes eating more carbs.

THANK YOU @nightanole

From post #2 in this thread:
Q15: The starting diet
A:
Your first goal is to get to 13% as quickly as manageable.
Your end goal is BMI 24 while at 13% body fat. This normally is around the 9-12 month mark. This is normally achieved by cutting to bmi 22-23, and then slow bulking till bmi 25(to reach graduation lifting stats), followed by a 1-2 cycle cut.

100g of fat. 100g of protein. 200-300g of carbs. This is 2100-2500 cals. This should cover just about everyone that is 5.8-6.2. Adjust from there to the point you are going up or down at least 1kg per cycle. You can not "recomp" on this program. But but its only 100g of protein and really high in fat. Look your body sucks at performing off of a protein energy source, and is perfectly capable of making non essential amino acids out of carbs. Fat can be reduced to 50g if you know how to feed yourself. The bro diet of rice, chicken breast, and olive/coconut oil is not a good fat profile for 50g. But but 1g per pound of body weight protein requirement. When you can cut at 3500-4000 calories, it will be almost impossible to not get in 1g per pound, but you can not cut those macro ratios in half and make it a 2000 calorie diet.

[FlyingV1990]

Few quick questions about the ab exercises - should those follow the same pattern as the main routine (2 sets of 8-12, w/ heavy/medium/light days)? And I'm guessing the "sets" for farmer's carries could be something like 40 seconds, and increase the time by 5 seconds each week up to week 5?

Also, would any of the ab exercises negatively affect muscle recovery if I'm doing them on my cardio/non-lifting days? i.e., since overhead press and landmine 180s both target delts, would it be better to do those on the same day? Thanks in advance.

[nightanole]

Few quick questions about the ab exercises - should those follow the same pattern as the main routine (2 sets of 8-12, w/ heavy/medium/light days)? And I'm guessing the "sets" for farmer's carries could be something like 40 seconds, and increase the time by 5 seconds each week up to week 5?

Also, would any of the ab exercises negatively affect muscle recovery if I'm doing them on my cardio/non-lifting days? i.e., since overhead press and landmine 180s both target delts, would it be better to do those on the same day? Thanks in advance.

Accessories have no fixed pattern. I recommend doing the same "thing" every session for the cycle. You are not meant to progress on accessories. They should be rotated in and out as needed. Its been a good long time since i posted the famer carry programming, but i never used time, i used distance. Its normally something like "enough weight that your grip gives out between 40-50 meters/yards" If you can carry them 75-100 yards then its not going to help with grip strength. If you can only carry them less than 30 meters its basically a test of strength an no conditioning.

And you are correct that doing abs/accessories on off days will rob recovery. So you will have to play it by ear. For the least detriment to recovery you do them at the end of the allpro workout, or at least on the same day of the workout.

[nikitamartin17]

Few quick questions about the ab exercises - should those follow the same pattern as the main routine (2 sets of 8-12, w/ heavy/medium/light days)? And I'm guessing the "sets" for farmer's carries could be something like 40 seconds, and increase the time by 5 seconds each week up to week 5?

Also, would any of the ab exercises negatively affect muscle recovery if I'm doing them on my cardio/non-lifting days? i.e., since overhead press and landmine 180s both target delts, would it be better to do those on the same day? Thanks in advance.

Absolutely, align ab exercises with your routine pattern for consistency. Farmer's carry progression sounds effective. As for ab exercises on cardio days, prioritize recovery. Overhead press and landmine 180s on the same day is wise, allowing targeted muscle rest. Tailor your plan to personal comfort, ensuring balanced progress and recovery. Best of luck!

[nikitamartin17]

Well I was sicker for longer then anticipated and it was driving me nuts. Finally last week I did 3 workouts with 70% weights just to get moving again and mitigate the DOMS I get after a long rest.

Last night I did the Novice Variant for the first time, doing 3x4 reps for Squat, Bench, Rows.

LOVE IT!

I had to adjust squat a little, I estimated too heavy for 4 reps and started leaning forwards and felt my lower back engage on a rep. I lowered 20lbs and cranked out two more 4 rep sets in good form. Luckily I listened in time and back is 100% normal, no soreness.
Bench I upped to 175 from 160 and did 3x4 no problem!!! Stoked, as I am "repping" more then BW. FINALLY.

I'M BACK BABY!!!!!!

One other change is I am listening to the diet, to hopefully get more energy. When I look at the "Lose It" app that I've been tracking macros for the past six months carbs are too low vs. the recommendations below. My Fats have been spot on, so I am allocating some protein calories/grams to good carbs instead. This is easy, I just skip a shake or so and eat some more quality carbs with meals instead. I think it'll work well to put more gas in the tank. I'm tracking my blood sugar levels too, as I had an issue to 6.0. With diet got A1C back to 5.7, so I do need to make sure of spikes eating more carbs.

THANK YOU @nightanole

From post #2 in this thread:
Q15: The starting diet
A:
Your first goal is to get to 13% as quickly as manageable.
Your end goal is BMI 24 while at 13% body fat. This normally is around the 9-12 month mark. This is normally achieved by cutting to bmi 22-23, and then slow bulking till bmi 25(to reach graduation lifting stats), followed by a 1-2 cycle cut.

100g of fat. 100g of protein. 200-300g of carbs. This is 2100-2500 cals. This should cover just about everyone that is 5.8-6.2. Adjust from there to the point you are going up or down at least 1kg per cycle. You can not "recomp" on this program. But but its only 100g of protein and really high in fat. Look your body sucks at performing off of a protein energy source, and is perfectly capable of making non essential amino acids out of carbs. Fat can be reduced to 50g if you know how to feed yourself. The bro diet of rice, chicken breast, and olive/coconut oil is not a good fat profile for 50g. But but 1g per pound of body weight protein requirement. When you can cut at 3500-4000 calories, it will be almost impossible to not get in 1g per pound, but you can not cut those macro ratios in half and make it a 2000 calorie diet.

Absolutely, align ab exercises with your routine pattern for consistency. Farmer's carry progression sounds effective. As for ab exercises on cardio days, prioritize recovery. Overhead press and landmine 180s on the same day is wise, allowing targeted muscle rest. Tailor your plan to personal comfort, ensuring balanced progress and recovery. Best of luck!

[lewiskountrer]

Hi and thank you for this great routine!

Well, I just want to check if you still believe this routine is doable twice a week wirh 2 heavy days, increasing the working sets to 3 on the three first exercises (squat, bench, row).
[I would also increase it to 3 on deadlifts for leg balance).

If will be ok if I add 3 sets of lateral raises at the end (I'm swapping calf work)?
What if I do underhand rows one day and overhand ones the another day?

And finally, sorry, would only 2 days be good for size? I'm planning to have a surplus of 300 kcl.

[nightanole]

Hi and thank you for this great routine!

Well, I just want to check if you still believe this routine is doable twice a week wirh 2 heavy days, increasing the working sets to 3 on the three first exercises (squat, bench, row).
[I would also increase it to 3 on deadlifts for leg balance).

If will be ok if I add 3 sets of lateral raises at the end (I'm swapping calf work)?
What if I do underhand rows one day and overhand ones the another day?

And finally, sorry, would only 2 days be good for size? I'm planning to have a surplus of 300 kcl.

The program is perfectly duable with the two heavies and 3 sets, 72 hours apart pattern. However this is a real arse kicker and most go back to the old pattern after a cycle or two. I joke and call it the "holiday pattern" that can be used if you are traveling for vacation/sick/ holidays. Also "test day" is only two sets.

As stated in OP, i do not recomend adding accessories till you have passed two test days. Those additional lat raises may cause a failure on a main lift, till you actually need the additional volume.

You can not rotate under and over hand rows per workout. you can however rotate per cycle. So cycle 1 can be under, and cycle two can be over. I do this all the time with rows/chin ups because im very prone to forearm inflammation.


2 days good for size. The process indicator that you warmed up correctly is that the first set feel just as good as the 2nd/third set. The process indicator that you have enough weight/volume, is the second session of the week (medium day or 2nd heavy) is the hardest session of the week. If its easier/same, then you did not fatigue yourself enough from the first workout.

[lewiskountrer]

Thank you very much Allpro. You're so kind.

I really don't care so much about strength, maybe a bit lol, only size and overall fitness. Perhaps when I get gassed with the 2 heavy days I will have a heavy one and a medium one for 2 cycles and then return to the 2 heavies and so on, H-H--M-M-H-H...etc
because this year I'm having just 2 free days and this routine is the only one more balanced among a lot of alternatives I could find (I discharged 2 day versions of 531, Tactical Barbell, AWR...etc.)

[nightanole]

Thank you very much Allpro. You're so kind.

I really don't care so much about strength, maybe a bit lol, only size and overall fitness. Perhaps when I get gassed with the 2 heavy days I will have a heavy one and a medium one for 2 cycles and then return to the 2 heavies and so on, H-H--M-M-H-H...etc
because this year I'm having just 2 free days and this routine is the only one more balanced among a lot of alternatives I could find (I discharged 2 day versions of 531, Tactical Barbell, AWR...etc.)

There is also the auto-regulated variant in OP if you find 2 heavies too much And its only two sets due to how it works. It will go as fast as your recovery permits.

[vanya1054]

Thanks for advice!

[jasonp360]

Oh man it has not been a good year for me getting sick! Another killer covid/cold/whatever and I just started lifting again Sunday.
Another change - I am lifting at 5:00am now instead of the evening.
It has been a shock but today's workout was the 3rd one in the morning and it wasn't as bad as the first one in the morning

I did a mini reset - I did the light workout of where I left off every workout this week. Next week I am doing the medium workout every day from where I left off, and then I will hit what will maybe be my last cycle of All Pro Beginner!
Why am I slowing ramping back into it? Probably all mental but I felt like I was shriveling away not working out for two weeks again. I didn't want to jump back in and immediately fail and get down.

I will report back! Hope to graduate any cycle now.

[SCRAS]

I generally suggest switching to novice around body weight for squat and some time around 1 plate for bench. Yes you can iron man and just do 2x12 for the entire program, but it gets HARD towards the end due to cns fatigue.

Novice has a deeper deload and a faster ramp up. It also tricks people into thinking they can increase the working weight, because it tops out at 8 reps. They learn that lesson real quick

And novice is only for the first 3 big lifts (squat/bench/row) the rest of the lifts are always 2x12.

Most people are going to need 2-3 cycles of novice on at least a lift or two in order to graduate.

So 2.5 cycles into the novice switch up. My heavy weights into cycle 6 are now:
Squat: 110kg (novice x3)
Bench: 67.5kg (novice x3)
BB Row: 60kg (novice x3)
OHP: 35kg
SLDL: 70kg
Bicep curls: 20kg
Standing calf raises: 180.

My weight has gone up to 68kg (from 65.3kg) but my bf has gone up to 16.5% (from 13.6%).

I have really been struggling with this last cycle from the first session. The weights feel too heavy from the first lift and after squatting my bench and all subsequent lifts feel junk/weak. I know I’m feeding myself well/enough so thinking I may be hitting the wall of the programme?

Does it sound like now the time to switch to a different programme? Or are these typical phases and worth sucking up for another couple cycles to see if I do somehow pass a lift on a test day?

Many thanks,
J

[nightanole]

So 2.5 cycles into the novice switch up. My heavy weights into cycle 6 are now:
Squat: 110kg (novice x3)
Bench: 67.5kg (novice x3)
BB Row: 60kg (novice x3)
OHP: 35kg
SLDL: 70kg
Bicep curls: 20kg
Standing calf raises: 180.

My weight has gone up to 68kg (from 65.3kg) but my bf has gone up to 16.5% (from 13.6%).

I have really been struggling with this last cycle from the first session. The weights feel too heavy from the first lift and after squatting my bench and all subsequent lifts feel junk/weak. I know I’m feeding myself well/enough so thinking I may be hitting the wall of the programme?

Does it sound like now the time to switch to a different programme? Or are these typical phases and worth sucking up for another couple cycles to see if I do somehow pass a lift on a test day?

Many thanks,
J

Yes you are very close to graduating, so i would start program shopping for something you will run for the next 2-5 years. I think i said this in OP, but they are going to be much higher volume and much lower progression. If you wanted to you could even run a hybrid, and run squat/bench on greyskull LP, and continue the rest of the program allpro style. or If you wanted to you could switch to the auto regulated variant of allpro to get out a couple of more cycles at your reduced pace.

[SCRAS]

Yes you are very close to graduating, so i would start program shopping for something you will run for the next 2-5 years. I think i said this in OP, but they are going to be much higher volume and much lower progression. If you wanted to you could even run a hybrid, and run squat/bench on greyskull LP, and continue the rest of the program allpro style. or If you wanted to you could switch to the auto regulated variant of allpro to get out a couple of more cycles at your reduced pace.

Thanks, as always, for your reply Allpro.

The penny hasn’t dropped to how I can increase volume while remaining on a full body routine. If increased volume means increasing reps and/or weights, does this mean I’m best leaving a full body routine, as fatigue would not improve but get worse with increased volume?

[gaz1980]

I'm on a slight calorie deficit as trying to strip a bit of fat (5'9, 190). Whilst I am managing well with the weights on first couple of weeks in the cycle, by Week 4 I am struggling with last couple of reps (particularly pushing movements) and think it's due to not enough food.

Does it sound sensible to cut on weeks 1-3 and then increase calories (or protein?) on the last two weeks of cycle?

Thanks

[nightanole]

Thanks, as always, for your reply Allpro.

The penny hasn’t dropped to how I can increase volume while remaining on a full body routine. If increased volume means increasing reps and/or weights, does this mean I’m best leaving a full body routine, as fatigue would not improve but get worse with increased volume?

You may be doing increased volume full body by reducing frequency of the lift, and alternating lifts. You will notice no intermediate routings have 3 days of squats and 3 days of deadlifts per week. Instead they alternate them, or have a heavy low volume day, and when your cns is recovering from that, you do a high rep low weight day, and when you are recovering from that metabolic fatigue you do the heavy, repeat.

Or most end up doing a 4 day a week push/pull or upper/lower.

But the point of a intermediate routine is not doing the same lift at the same everything, 2-3 times a week. The old joke is if you took an intermediate lifter and put him on 5x5 at 80% of 1rm, hed be in the hospital in about 2 weeks even with zero weight progression.

[nightanole]

I'm on a slight calorie deficit as trying to strip a bit of fat (5'9, 190). Whilst I am managing well with the weights on first couple of weeks in the cycle, by Week 4 I am struggling with last couple of reps (particularly pushing movements) and think it's due to not enough food.

Does it sound sensible to cut on weeks 1-3 and then increase calories (or protein?) on the last two weeks of cycle?

Thanks

If this is your first cycle, you picked way too heavy of a starting weight.

It sounds like you have a recovery issue. If its food related, the solution is to increase carbs at the expense of fat/protein. Or you are just too low in calories period and you need to up the carbs and up the cardio to compensate.

[gaz1980]

If this is your first cycle, you picked way too heavy of a starting weight.

It sounds like you have a recovery issue. If its food related, the solution is to increase carbs at the expense of fat/protein. Or you are just too low in calories period and you need to up the carbs and up the cardio to compensate.

No, I am on 3rd cycle. I am concentrating on perfect form with no cheating. I have been a bit ill lately which meant I didn't eat so much so might be related. I do feel fresh at start of workouts though, just flag near the end. Would you not recommend increasing calories in higher rep weeks then?

[nightanole]

No, I am on 3rd cycle. I am concentrating on perfect form with no cheating. I have been a bit ill lately which meant I didn't eat so much so might be related. I do feel fresh at start of workouts though, just flag near the end. Would you not recommend increasing calories in higher rep weeks then?

I have never recommended changing eating habits during the cycle. You are running off of whatever you ate 2-3 meals ago, not what you ate a few hours before the workout. So it might be you are ill or dehydrated. But other that that, lack of performance is normally lack of carbs.

[jasonp360]

I'm back to report bench and OHP are still quite difficult. I failed 175 miserably half way through the cycle. So I dropped it from 175 to 160 mid cycle for heavy day and adjusted the medium/light days accordingly and will just do 160 to pass this cycle. I guess I will try 175 again next cycle if 160 passes.

I also dropped my accessory lift completely this cycle. Was doing underhand chin-ups after calf raises. I thought maybe I needed that energy to push 175 bench to a win so I stopped doing chins. Didn't work.

So should I continue to leave out chins?

[nightanole]

I'm back to report bench and OHP are still quite difficult. I failed 175 miserably half way through the cycle. So I dropped it from 175 to 160 mid cycle for heavy day and adjusted the medium/light days accordingly and will just do 160 to pass this cycle. I guess I will try 175 again next cycle if 160 passes.

I also dropped my accessory lift completely this cycle. Was doing underhand chin-ups after calf raises. I thought maybe I needed that energy to push 175 bench to a win so I stopped doing chins. Didn't work.

So should I continue to leave out chins?

If you can, continue doing the chins, but do them so they dont cause metabolic fatigue. Try the "grease the groove" method which is doing half of your maxed tested reps, several times a day on off days at least 45min apart. Take a few days off and retest your max every 2-3 weeks.

As for an accessory for after the work, i would try a "bend knee as much as possible while staying upright"(this normally 3-6" down) push press using your light day bench weight. You should be able to get in 2-3 reps. Start off with just one set to see how you recover. You can also do this with bench, just benching with 110-133% of your heavy day working weight, or whatever weight will keep you below 3 reps. Again start off with just one set after workout, and see how you recover.

The point of the above is to improve form, and develop explosive push at the start of the lift. You are not going to be able to dog the weight to get more reps in, if you dont push very hard, you wont be able to lock it out.