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  1. #391
    Registered User nezaboy's Avatar
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    Bent over row. As I’ve progressed through the program I’ve found myself much more parallel with the ground than when I first started. Assume this is more flexibility in my hamstrings?

    Is it better to be more horizontal? What are benefits?
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  2. #392
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by nezaboy View Post
    Bent over row. As I’ve progressed through the program I’ve found myself much more parallel with the ground than when I first started. Assume this is more flexibility in my hamstrings?

    Is it better to be more horizontal? What are benefits?
    We want to be half way inbetween the back parallels row, and the very upright Yates row.

    If you are more horizontal, you will not be able to swing as much weight, and will be hitting the the back more. So more back, less shoulder/lat
    If you are more upright, you will be able to swing much more weight(excellent dead lift accessory) and get more trap, and will be relieving fatigue from the back.

    So its up to you, more core reenforcement with the horizonal. Your back will be the last thing to give out and go into poor form.
    Can deadlift more frequently with the yates style. AKA if you are having lower back fatigue issues, you might want to yates it for a while.

    Or you can split the difference and do it just bent over, which is the "kinda replacement for the deadlift" that allpro uses.
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  3. #393
    Registered User ijustbluemyself's Avatar
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    Been doing allpro for coming up on three cycles.

    Scale hasn't budged an inch but my lifts are going up.

    Welp tried to share an imgur link of progress but no dice
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  4. #394
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ijustbluemyself View Post
    Been doing allpro for coming up on three cycles.

    Scale hasn't budged an inch but my lifts are going up.

    Welp tried to share an imgur link of progress but no dice
    SHould be over or under eating to the point the scale is moving at least 1kg per cycle
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  5. #395
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    SHould be over or under eating to the point the scale is moving at least 1kg per cycle
    Guess I can attach images. Wanted to post this because it seems like I've gained muscle and lost fat but that might be my imagination so I wanted to share an image so someone can either confirm or call BS.
    Attached Images
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  6. #396
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    Originally Posted by ijustbluemyself View Post
    Guess I can attach images. Wanted to post this because it seems like I've gained muscle and lost fat but that might be my imagination so I wanted to share an image so someone can either confirm or call BS.
    You are doing one of two things. You are recomping, and greatly increasing your glycogen stores so the muscles look more fluffy. Or you are exchanging visceral (the hard belly fat) fat, for more skin fat (makes your meat tubes thicker, increases endurance, and much more healthier vs visceral). Either way you are showing progress, and in another 6 cycles you may be done. But you need to start cutting, you can "bulk" off that spare tire for a long time.
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  7. #397
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    You are doing one of two things. You are recomping, and greatly increasing your glycogen stores so the muscles look more fluffy. Or you are exchanging visceral (the hard belly fat) fat, for more skin fat (makes your meat tubes thicker, increases endurance, and much more healthier vs visceral). Either way you are showing progress, and in another 6 cycles you may be done. But you need to start cutting, you can "bulk" off that spare tire for a long time.
    Thank you for the valuable feedback, I'll follow it.
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  8. #398
    Registered User ijustbluemyself's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    You are doing one of two things. You are recomping, and greatly increasing your glycogen stores so the muscles look more fluffy. Or you are exchanging visceral (the hard belly fat) fat, for more skin fat (makes your meat tubes thicker, increases endurance, and much more healthier vs visceral). Either way you are showing progress, and in another 6 cycles you may be done. But you need to start cutting, you can "bulk" off that spare tire for a long time.
    Do you recommend taking any weeks off between cycles or no? I searched with no luck.
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  9. #399
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ijustbluemyself View Post
    Do you recommend taking any weeks off between cycles or no? I searched with no luck.
    There are no deloads on allpro, thats why we have a light day each week as a mini deload. If you would like to take a week off (vacation, sick, work, etc) Then you would skip 8 rep week, and reset or start the cycle on 9 rep week. So if you are on 10 rep week, you cant just take a week off and pickup on 11 rep, because you stripped off all the fatigue.

    In other news, even if you pass and bump 10%, the following 8 rep week is still technically easier than test week. 9 rep week with a 10% bump is just as hard as the previous test week.
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  10. #400
    Registered User ijustbluemyself's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    There are no deloads on allpro, thats why we have a light day each week as a mini deload. If you would like to take a week off (vacation, sick, work, etc) Then you would skip 8 rep week, and reset or start the cycle on 9 rep week. So if you are on 10 rep week, you cant just take a week off and pickup on 11 rep, because you stripped off all the fatigue.

    In other news, even if you pass and bump 10%, the following 8 rep week is still technically easier than test week. 9 rep week with a 10% bump is just as hard as the previous test week.
    Thank you for helping me, I really appreciate it.
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  11. #401
    Registered User neuralfusion011's Avatar
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    Weight increase rounding

    I passed 115 for 12 bench reps on test day. I would not consider it easy but i was able to get the reps with solid form. Would you reccomend increasing to 125 or 130 for next cycle?
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  12. #402
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by neuralfusion011 View Post
    I passed 115 for 12 bench reps on test day. I would not consider it easy but i was able to get the reps with solid form. Would you reccomend increasing to 125 or 130 for next cycle?
    Try 130 for 1 set of 10 on light day. If you pass you are gold for next cycle, else stick with 125.
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  13. #403
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    Golfer’s Elbow

    I’m dealing with a flare up of Golfer’s Elbow which makes curls painful.
    I’ve been using a Theraband FlexBar and it’s been helping.
    In the meantime, is it better to substitute hammer curls, which I can do with little discomfort, or just skip the exercise for a bit until I can do it without pain.
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  14. #404
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by GACheesehead View Post
    I’m dealing with a flare up of Golfer’s Elbow which makes curls painful.
    I’ve been using a Theraband FlexBar and it’s been helping.
    In the meantime, is it better to substitute hammer curls, which I can do with little discomfort, or just skip the exercise for a bit until I can do it without pain.
    Odds are you are like me and your wrists are shot.

    Hammer curls are good.

    What normally causes the flare up is bad form in the row. You end up trying to reverse wrist curl the weight up when you get tired. to counter this, do the opposite, and make yourself look like a praying mantis.
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  15. #405
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    Odds are you are like me and your wrists are shot.

    Hammer curls are good.

    What normally causes the flare up is bad form in the row. You end up trying to reverse wrist curl the weight up when you get tired. to counter this, do the opposite, and make yourself look like a praying mantis.
    I think I was bending my wrist at the top of the curl to get that extra bit of strength and ended up putting extra strain on the tendon. Lesson learned the hard way.
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  16. #406
    Registered User nezaboy's Avatar
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    Not sure what’s going on with my cut. Seems like such a basic question. But I’m almost 2 months into my cut and I am just not dropping weight. Month 1 I dropped just over 2kg, this month I’ve just plateaued. My lifts are just sticking around 10 reps so I don’t think I can cut more calories. I’m eating 2000 a day, macros all good too. But for some reason can’t get below 82kg.

    I would say I’m still 17-18%bf too

    What’s the plan here? Do I need to up the cardio you think?

    This is driving me mad, because I got down to 76kg in October then bulked to 84kg by March and started the cut in April
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  17. #407
    Registered User JustinP72's Avatar
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    Wondering your thoughts on splitting the program into a push-pull split as follows;

    M: 100% Bench - Squat - Press
    T: 100% Row - Dead Lift - Upright
    W: 90% Bench - Squat - Press
    Th: 90% Row - Dead Lift - Upright
    Fr: 80% Bench - Squat - Press
    Sat: 80% Row - Dead Lift - Upright
    Sun: Rest

    It doesn't provide two days rest total, but does provide two days rest between light and heavy days for each split. Not sure how much this is altering the effectiveness of the program, and I'm interested to hear what you think.
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  18. #408
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by nezaboy View Post
    Not sure what’s going on with my cut. Seems like such a basic question. But I’m almost 2 months into my cut and I am just not dropping weight. Month 1 I dropped just over 2kg, this month I’ve just plateaued. My lifts are just sticking around 10 reps so I don’t think I can cut more calories. I’m eating 2000 a day, macros all good too. But for some reason can’t get below 82kg.

    I would say I’m still 17-18%bf too

    What’s the plan here? Do I need to up the cardio you think?

    This is driving me mad, because I got down to 76kg in October then bulked to 84kg by March and started the cut in April
    Most successful lifters treat fat/protein like vitamins and keep them fixed throughout the year. Durring the bulk they up the carbs and reduce the cardio to around an hour a week just to keep recovery/conditioning in check. On cuts they drop the carbs, which results in a dramatic water weight loss since its like 4-5 grams of water to float 1 gram of carbs, and they dramatically up the steady state steady state low intensity cardio. This could be as simple as a pedal bike under your desk while having your skype/zoom meetings.
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  19. #409
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by JustinP72 View Post
    Wondering your thoughts on splitting the program into a push-pull split as follows;

    M: 100% Bench - Squat - Press
    T: 100% Row - Dead Lift - Upright
    W: 90% Bench - Squat - Press
    Th: 90% Row - Dead Lift - Upright
    Fr: 80% Bench - Squat - Press
    Sat: 80% Row - Dead Lift - Upright
    Sun: Rest

    It doesn't provide two days rest total, but does provide two days rest between light and heavy days for each split. Not sure how much this is altering the effectiveness of the program, and I'm interested to hear what you think.
    Havent ever tried that combo. The closest i have is the rule if you break up the session, you must do the main and accessory in the same session. So that means squat/dead, bench/ohp, and row/curl variant( such has hammer or chinup).
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    Havent ever tried that combo. The closest i have is the rule if you break up the session, you must do the main and accessory in the same session. So that means squat/dead, bench/ohp, and row/curl variant( such has hammer or chinup).
    Well that's a better answer than the possible "WTF are you doing?!" Lol. I guess I will be the guinea pig. I have ran the prescribed program, so I'm interested to see how this compares, especially as far as ease of lifts through progression and recovery.
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  21. #411
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by JustinP72 View Post
    Well that's a better answer than the possible "WTF are you doing?!" Lol. I guess I will be the guinea pig. I have ran the prescribed program, so I'm interested to see how this compares, especially as far as ease of lifts through progression and recovery.
    Another variant is the Heavy Heavy. You just need 72 hours rest between basically every heavy, and you add a 3rd set to bench/row/squat other than test day. So basically monday and (thurs or friday) are heavies all cycle.
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  22. #412
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    I’m almost certain I need a deload. My recovery is absolutely awful. This is my 8th week on a cut and I am dead. What’s the best option here to minimise any negative impact on any gains?

    I managed only 5 reps on squats today,

    My cut isn’t even that aggressive, but pretty sure life stress at the moment is having an impact
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  23. #413
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by nezaboy View Post
    I’m almost certain I need a deload. My recovery is absolutely awful. This is my 8th week on a cut and I am dead. What’s the best option here to minimise any negative impact on any gains?

    I managed only 5 reps on squats today,

    My cut isn’t even that aggressive, but pretty sure life stress at the moment is having an impact
    The least impactful, and off the books, is just 1 set of 3 at 110-120% of heavy day. This will only tax your cns, which is the first to degrade during a deload. You would do this twice a week. And if you want you can deload for 2 weeks since you are cutting.
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  24. #414
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    Volume

    Hi Night
    I’ve seen you mention a few times that beyond a certain point AP does not have enough volume. Is there any reason you could not just add another set to each exercise?

    Thanks for your dedication to this thread btw!
    Take the red pill....
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  25. #415
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Orewa View Post
    Hi Night
    I’ve seen you mention a few times that beyond a certain point AP does not have enough volume. Is there any reason you could not just add another set to each exercise?

    Thanks for your dedication to this thread btw!
    In a magic simple world, you would just do 1 set of 10 every 2 days, and add just one cup of water to the bar each day, for years, and never have to deload.

    Unfortunately once you are past the novice stage it gets tricky to program. In allpros case, the program's progression is way too fast, its weight bumps are way to much, and the volume is too low.

    So to make it an intermediate routine, you would have to make the progression "up to" 10x slower, the weight bumps down to 2.5%, and "up to" double the weekly volume.

    But yes you could just add another set to the exercises you are stalling on, or add 1-2 sets of accessories at the end of the workout, but thats only going to get you another 3 cycles tops. A well intermediate routine would get you 3-5 years, or even life.
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  26. #416
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    I've been doing greyskull for like half a year with not so amazing progress. It's probably been because of not eating enough, weight has been about the same for months... Started counting calories and ate 2600 kcal for a month but it doesn't seem to be enough. Upped to 2800 the day before yesterday and I'll go 3000 if weight doesn't increase in a week or two. I was thinking about trying a bit different beginner program as well and found this. I think I'm gonna try this, movements are pretty much the same anyway.

    I've been doing 3x lift sessions per week and 30 min of stationary bicycle (sub 140 bpm) on other days, so 4x30min of cardio per week, no full rest days. Could this much cardio be detrimental to lifting? I was thinking 2 hours per week isn't that much, but maybe it's interfering with muscle growth?
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  27. #417
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    Originally Posted by brielf View Post
    I've been doing greyskull for like half a year with not so amazing progress. It's probably been because of not eating enough, weight has been about the same for months... Started counting calories and ate 2600 kcal for a month but it doesn't seem to be enough. Upped to 2800 the day before yesterday and I'll go 3000 if weight doesn't increase in a week or two. I was thinking about trying a bit different beginner program as well and found this. I think I'm gonna try this, movements are pretty much the same anyway.

    I've been doing 3x lift sessions per week and 30 min of stationary bicycle (sub 140 bpm) on other days, so 4x30min of cardio per week, no full rest days. Could this much cardio be detrimental to lifting? I was thinking 2 hours per week isn't that much, but maybe it's interfering with muscle growth?
    Im not sure what version of greyskull you are doing, but you could do greyskull core, and then the allpro assessories (OHP,sldl,curl/chinup).

    Cardio doesnt kill gains, in increases recovery rate between sets. You are only burning a few hundred extra calories a week with 2 hours of cardio, 500 at best. "you cant outrun a bad diet"

    But if you are under eating, or eating just maintaince, its going to take an incredibly long time to "recomp". I tell people on allpro to be going up or down at least 1kg per cycle.
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  28. #418
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    Thanks, I was doing the core (squat/DL + bench/ohp) but I was adding some random exercises and it's been a bit messy so I'm just gonna start fresh with this program.

    That's what I was thinking about cardio, just need to adjust calories to be on surplus.
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  29. #419
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    I just read this latest thread and been reading the older one a bit. I just started wondering, my stats are 172 cm / 63-64 kg.

    The following are 3x5 sets:

    Squat 80 kg (176 lbs). Managed 3x5 83 kg a month ago, but hurt my hands because of bad technique so had to take a break and failed 82 kg this week. I think I'm gonna try high bar, should put less stress on hands.
    Bench 50 kg (110 lbs). Got up to 53 kg a few months ago, but failed after that and been stalling around 50 kg since. I've been trying out DB/machines etc. lately.
    OHP 36 kg (79 lbs). Worked up to 37 kg several times but always failed and never got past after reducing weight by 10 %.
    DL 90 kg (198 lbs). Worked up to 98 kg but failed the set a few months ago. Got discomfort in lower back so didn't really focus on DL, lately been doing RDL around 80 kg.

    Started going to gym around last September/October so the weights are not so good considering how long I've been going to the gym. Although I did some random program at the beginning, haven't been eating enough etc. beginner mistakes.

    So, I just read in these threads that this program is good if you feel like you're at least 6 months off from benching your bodyweight and 1,25-1,50 x bodyweight in squats. It seems like my squat is kind of getting there but bench/OHP has stagnated very hard. Would you still recommend this program in my case?
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  30. #420
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    Originally Posted by brielf View Post
    I just read this latest thread and been reading the older one a bit. I just started wondering, my stats are 172 cm / 63-64 kg.

    The following are 3x5 sets:

    Squat 80 kg (176 lbs). Managed 3x5 83 kg a month ago, but hurt my hands because of bad technique so had to take a break and failed 82 kg this week. I think I'm gonna try high bar, should put less stress on hands.
    Bench 50 kg (110 lbs). Got up to 53 kg a few months ago, but failed after that and been stalling around 50 kg since. I've been trying out DB/machines etc. lately.
    OHP 36 kg (79 lbs). Worked up to 37 kg several times but always failed and never got past after reducing weight by 10 %.
    DL 90 kg (198 lbs). Worked up to 98 kg but failed the set a few months ago. Got discomfort in lower back so didn't really focus on DL, lately been doing RDL around 80 kg.

    Started going to gym around last September/October so the weights are not so good considering how long I've been going to the gym. Although I did some random program at the beginning, haven't been eating enough etc. beginner mistakes.

    So, I just read in these threads that this program is good if you feel like you're at least 6 months off from benching your bodyweight and 1,25-1,50 x bodyweight in squats. It seems like my squat is kind of getting there but bench/OHP has stagnated very hard. Would you still recommend this program in my case?
    Its still the same recomendation. I dont recommend starting a program you wont run for at least 6 months. So your squat you would have to add 5 reps to (its 10 reps of 1,25-1.5x) which is going to take awhile since progression drops alot as you get closer to graduation numbers.

    So you could always spend 1-2 cycles cutting while getting used to the program (and hopefully increasing your power to weight ratio) then 3 cycles bulking, and maybe 1 cycle at the end just cutting off the baby fat.

    But in just about every program, if the scale ant moving, odds are you are stalling.
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