# Thread: AllPro: A Simple Beginner's Routine part VII

1. Yeah I weighed the bar. It’s a 1 inch bar and only weighs 2kg! It’s really odd. When I bench at the gym I focus on the ceiling. I guess outside I might not be so focused? Sadly I have no indoor space o can use for this. If I used the same weights just passed on week 5 should I just continue with sets of 12 each week? Until the gyms open
Originally Posted by nightanole
Are you really sure the bar and weights are correct? Ive seen bar weights all over the place, my olympic ones vary 10kg from lightest to heaviest. And weights are not calibrated, so a "45" is +- 2kg.

2. Originally Posted by nightanole
so you only have 28kg of weight, and are trying to use that on lifts that are 50-60kg

Honestly i would just switch to chinups and dips. even weighted. You could even use my 10 sets of 3 pattern for progression.

But with that little of weight, you would have to do something like 2 or 3 AMRAP RPE 9 sets if you want to use them. AKA you need to goto form failure every set with the high rep stuff.
Thanks! However I suck at chinups and dips, would prefer to stick to something I know already as it's going to be only for 1 or 2 months.

How would you calculate RPE 9 sets exactly? If I understand well, this is the number of reps I can do until failure -10% of that? So, for DB bench I guess I'd be 22 reps in failures so I should follow some kind of W1 16- W2 18 - W3 20 - W4 22 - W5 24?

Sorry for the N00bs questions

3. Originally Posted by nezaboy
Yeah I weighed the bar. It’s a 1 inch bar and only weighs 2kg! It’s really odd. When I bench at the gym I focus on the ceiling. I guess outside I might not be so focused? Sadly I have no indoor space o can use for this. If I used the same weights just passed on week 5 should I just continue with sets of 12 each week? Until the gyms open
Honestly i always bench in the power rack with safety bars. I tell home users to do the same, or do the floor press. The slight lack of range is made up with the dead stop at the bottom.

4. Originally Posted by Oboy5
Thanks! However I suck at chinups and dips, would prefer to stick to something I know already as it's going to be only for 1 or 2 months.

How would you calculate RPE 9 sets exactly? If I understand well, this is the number of reps I can do until failure -10% of that? So, for DB bench I guess I'd be 22 reps in failures so I should follow some kind of W1 16- W2 18 - W3 20 - W4 22 - W5 24?

Sorry for the N00bs questions
RPE 9 means you have a solid 1 good form rep left, and maybe 2 reps left if you had a gun to your head and it was a acceptable form grinder.

But with high rep work, you must goto failure. So you kinda need to throw out rep count, and just goto failure 2-3 sets every workout. aka run autoregulated. And the reps will naturally fall out as the week goes on, and then come back higher than ever the following week after you take the weekend off.

5. Originally Posted by nightanole
RPE 9 means you have a solid 1 good form rep left, and maybe 2 reps left if you had a gun to your head and it was a acceptable form grinder.

But with high rep work, you must goto failure. So you kinda need to throw out rep count, and just goto failure 2-3 sets every workout. aka run autoregulated. And the reps will naturally fall out as the week goes on, and then come back higher than ever the following week after you take the weekend off.
Thanks! Might be a mix then, probably the first 3 exercises could be to failure and rest with normal pattern.

Maybe will replace pullups and curls by assisted chinups

6. Originally Posted by nightanole
I think you have too much fatigue build up. If doing half weight doesnt work for you, then just do the opposite. 85-90% of 1 rep max for 2 sets. It should end up 2 or 3 reps. If that feels good, just do it all week without progression.

If that doesnt work for you, then you might have to try out 5/3/1 with the BBB lift on opposite days.
So this is exactly what I did. I upped my weight to 90% and did two to three reps and its working awesome. I’m feeling much better and actually happier lol and nagging pain in my wrist, thumb, shoulder and both feet are going away / gone. I have another 4 days of deload left before I go back to normal workout routine. Which bring me to the question - what weight should I lift when I get back to normal workouts next week?

e.g I reset from 195x4 and deadlifted 175x5 last week before deload and IT FELT HEAVY RPE 10. Today I lifted 195 and couldn’t get myself to stop on 3rd rep. So I did 4th rep and I still had one for sure, maybe two clean reps left and maybe a 3rd RPE 10 rep after that 2nd additional rep.

So I’m thinking what weights to lift when I get back next week? Do I resume my reset weight or do I continue with the weight and add progression weight from week before deload? I hope I worded my question right. I mean to ask about all exercises - not just deadlifts.

Thanks nightanole

7. Originally Posted by TryingBB
So this is exactly what I did. I upped my weight to 90% and did two to three reps and its working awesome. I’m feeling much better and actually happier lol and nagging pain in my wrist, thumb, shoulder and both feet are going away / gone. I have another 4 days of deload left before I go back to normal workout routine. Which bring me to the question - what weight should I lift when I get back to normal workouts next week?

e.g I reset from 195x4 and deadlifted 175x5 last week before deload and IT FELT HEAVY RPE 10. Today I lifted 195 and couldn’t get myself to stop on 3rd rep. So I did 4th rep and I still had one for sure, maybe two clean reps left and maybe a 3rd RPE 10 rep after that 2nd additional rep.

So I’m thinking what weights to lift when I get back next week? Do I resume my reset weight or do I continue with the weight and add progression weight from week before deload? I hope I worded my question right. I mean to ask about all exercises - not just deadlifts.

Thanks nightanole
If you just want to "start over" it tell people start off with either: 10 rep max, or enough weight to get at least 8 reps on the AMRAP set. Hell is watching someone trying to do greyskull getting RPE10 6 rep AMRAP sets and just trying to sustain that 2.5lbs progression while doing 5-6 rep grinders over and over. Its 2 sub maximal sets and an AMRAP set. The golden rule for rest is "if you are going to get less than 5 reps, it better be on the first set, else you rushed the sets".

8. Originally Posted by nightanole
If you just want to "start over" it tell people start off with either: 10 rep max, or enough weight to get at least 8 reps on the AMRAP set. Hell is watching someone trying to do greyskull getting RPE10 6 rep AMRAP sets and just trying to sustain that 2.5lbs progression while doing 5-6 rep grinders over and over. Its 2 sub maximal sets and an AMRAP set. The golden rule for rest is "if you are going to get less than 5 reps, it better be on the first set, else you rushed the sets".
Gotcha. I’ll restart all main lifts with 10 rep max.

The 8th rep on AMRAP should be at what RPE?

Since I’ve learnt I don’t too well with RPE 10 recovery wise, if I get 5 on AMRAP at RPE 9/9.5 (instead of 4 reps on first set), I reset my weight. I’m Resting 3 minutes between my main lifts and resting any more than 3 minutes - I’m just totally cooled off and next set/exercise doesn’t feel right.

9. Originally Posted by TryingBB
Gotcha. I’ll restart all main lifts with 10 rep max.

The 8th rep on AMRAP should be at what RPE?

Since I’ve learnt I don’t too well with RPE 10 recovery wise, if I get 5 on AMRAP at RPE 9/9.5 (instead of 4 reps on first set), I reset my weight. I’m Resting 3 minutes between my main lifts and resting any more than 3 minutes - I’m just totally cooled off and next set/exercise doesn’t feel right.
I go for a sloooooow good form rep. As long as there is not form degradation, there shouldnt be much cns fatigue.

As for rest times. On Starting strength, they love slow grinders. So if your about to hit a reset, its not uncommon to need 10min rests between sets. There is a reason why a 3-4 lift session of 3 sets each, takes up to 1.5 hours.

10. Originally Posted by nightanole
I go for a sloooooow good form rep. As long as there is not form degradation, there shouldnt be much cns fatigue.

As for rest times. On Starting strength, they love slow grinders. So if your about to hit a reset, its not uncommon to need 10min rests between sets. There is a reason why a 3-4 lift session of 3 sets each, takes up to 1.5 hours.
I don’t completely understand what sloooooow means for me.

Usually On my last squat rep, It’s a 8.5/10 effort @ RPE 9 imo but it does result in a slight form break - Bar moves forward as a ascend. My butt rises while my head/shoulders stay at the same height causing a forward lean. So that is form break I suppose right? Should I have just stopped on the previous rep which was a 7.5/10 effort and consider that a RPE 10 for me?

Squats are the most difficult for me. I haven’t made much progress atall and I keep resetting to the same weight for the last year or so. i don’t even want to admit how low my squat is - I can bench 30lbs more for reps than I can squat and deadlift almost double of my squat weight. I did have a flat butt and now it’s got some shape so that’s progress?

11. Originally Posted by TryingBB
I don’t completely understand what sloooooow means for me.

Usually On my last squat rep, It’s a 8.5/10 effort @ RPE 9 imo but it does result in a slight form break - Bar moves forward as a ascend. My butt rises while my head/shoulders stay at the same height causing a forward lean. So that is form break I suppose right? Should I have just stopped on the previous rep which was a 7.5/10 effort and consider that a RPE 10 for me?

Squats are the most difficult for me. I haven’t made much progress atall and I keep resetting to the same weight for the last year or so. i don’t even want to admit how low my squat is - I can bench 30lbs more for reps than I can squat and deadlift almost double of my squat weight. I did have a flat butt and now it’s got some shape so that’s progress?

When bar speed drops noticeably but form remains the same. If you push past that, your cns pattern will degrade. This degradation is whats causing your fatigue. You ran out of muscle fibers, so your cns just starts firing any fibers it can, in any order. And that makes you feel like crap and shaky/twitchy, afterwards.

As for squat/bench/row, elite lifters are going to have the squat and dead VERY close to each other, not 75-100lbs difference at 400lb rep or less. But most mer mortals are not going to have the proportions to be elite. You are going to have very long femurs so you will not squat very well. You are going to have very long arms so you are going to deadlift very well. You are going to have proportions that allow you to squat very upright, so you will squat very well but be weak in the dead. Your long arms will help in the dead, but add 6 inches to the bench ROM.

If you are stalling in a lift, i say rotate variants throughout the year. Get good at a form of the squat, when you start stalling, switch form. Lowbar, highbar, box, wide stance, narrow stance. All will "feel" completely different, just like incline/flat/decline bench. But at the end of the year, the high bar squat for 175lbs, should have gone up in reps, and so should have the low bar, and the narrow/wide.

12. ## Bench

Hey Nightanole! I've been on this program for long now, ~4 years. Sadly with all the stuff going on my gym was literally demolished so I decided to get a barbell and keep going with All pro's until hitting my double weight mark. (It's been 8 months since I left the gym so sadly every weight has dropped) but anyway, since I don't have a bench atm, could I do floor presses? Or is there any other exercise to replace the holy bench? I really miss bench presses but my room isn't the biggest.
Might get one in the future though but I wouldn't want my other lifts to go up without improving all the muscles targetted by the bench, I think it'd be quite unbalanced. Also, being a woman I believe it's always a struggle for some of us to get that upper body strength, so I feel puzzled.

Thank you and for all the past help!

13. Originally Posted by Lunevillain
Hey Nightanole! I've been on this program for long now, ~4 years. Sadly with all the stuff going on my gym was literally demolished so I decided to get a barbell and keep going with All pro's until hitting my double weight mark. (It's been 8 months since I left the gym so sadly every weight has dropped) but anyway, since I don't have a bench atm, could I do floor presses? Or is there any other exercise to replace the holy bench? I really miss bench presses but my room isn't the biggest.
Might get one in the future though but I wouldn't want my other lifts to go up without improving all the muscles targetted by the bench, I think it'd be quite unbalanced. Also, being a woman I believe it's always a struggle for some of us to get that upper body strength, so I feel puzzled.

Thank you and for all the past help!
At home with just a bar, you can do floor presses and zercher squats. I dont recommend doing standard bench/squat without safeties, i do both in a power rack with safety bars.

14. Originally Posted by nightanole
At home with just a bar, you can do floor presses and zercher squats. I dont recommend doing standard bench/squat without safeties, i do both in a power rack with safety bars.
Thank you!! I did get a squat rack so overhead presses and squats are covered :=)

15. I'm in the fourth week of my second cycle. Today was heavy day and I was unable to hit the 11 reps on the second working set of two exercises (overhead press and upright row). How should I finish this cycle with those two exercises before repeating the weight on them next cycle? Should I attempt to hit the 11 reps again on them next week while I attempt to hit 12 on the rest?

16. Originally Posted by aicampa
I'm in the fourth week of my second cycle. Today was heavy day and I was unable to hit the 11 reps on the second working set of two exercises (overhead press and upright row). How should I finish this cycle with those two exercises before repeating the weight on them next cycle? Should I attempt to hit the 11 reps again on them next week while I attempt to hit 12 on the rest?
You should go for 12 but give yourself a bit more rest between sets. This happened to me on the same week as you. I got 11 and 9. I was gassed. The next week for 12, I made sure to rest well for each set and nailed 12 on both.

17. Hi everyone. Looking to get back to the gym after a year off. Going to use AllPro. I was intending to workout first thing in the morning which means before breakfast, then head home for a post-workout meal before I start work. I appreciate working out on an empty stomach may not be ideal. What are your thoughts on this?

18. Originally Posted by dcanham001
Hi everyone. Looking to get back to the gym after a year off. Going to use AllPro. I was intending to workout first thing in the morning which means before breakfast, then head home for a post-workout meal before I start work. I appreciate working out on an empty stomach may not be ideal. What are your thoughts on this?
generally it doesnt matter. For those that are not used to performing on an empty stomach, you can wake up with a banana by your head, and sip on a very diluted(double the normal recommended water) protein shake during the warmup and workout.

But everyone runs off of what you ate 8-12 hours before hand, not the big breakfast you ate 2 hours ago

19. Originally Posted by nightanole
generally it doesnt matter. For those that are not used to performing on an empty stomach, you can wake up with a banana by your head, and sip on a very diluted(double the normal recommended water) protein shake during the warmup and workout.

But everyone runs off of what you ate 8-12 hours before hand, not the big breakfast you ate 2 hours ago
Thanks nightanole that's a comfort. I've just read a lot of people saying you should have carbs before weights. Will see how I get with an empty stomach (I don't think it'll be too much of an issue). If not I'll have a banana as it was going to be part of my post-workout meal anyway. Looking forward to starting!

20. Originally Posted by dcanham001
Thanks nightanole that's a comfort. I've just read a lot of people saying you should have carbs before weights. Will see how I get with an empty stomach (I don't think it'll be too much of an issue). If not I'll have a banana as it was going to be part of my post-workout meal anyway. Looking forward to starting!
When lifting you are running off of glycogen stores in the muscle. Those are the slow to restore gas tanks that are filled by the carbs/fat you ate 8-12 hours ago. Its anaerobic.

The carbs before work out, only replenish blood glucose, which only helps with endurance such as running, burpees, etc. Its aerobic.

21. Is there any method on how many bulk cycles in a row to cut? At this rate I’ll
Be heading into two bulk cycles come
July and feel like I should be cutting by then for the tops off summer bod?!

I’m on cycle 3 now

Cycle 1 was a cut
Cycle 2 bulk
Cycle 3 bulk

22. Originally Posted by nezaboy
Is there any method on how many bulk cycles in a row to cut? At this rate I’ll
Be heading into two bulk cycles come
July and feel like I should be cutting by then for the tops off summer bod?!

I’m on cycle 3 now

Cycle 1 was a cut
Cycle 2 bulk
Cycle 3 bulk
You will spend the rest of your life bulking

I tell people to bulk at 1/4-1/3 the rate they can cut at before performance suffers. So if you can only cut at 3kg per month before dropping reps, you better not be bulking at more than 1kg per month.

And if you do the math, that means you will be spending around 3/4 of the year in perma bulk mode, and just doing 1-2 mini cuts to get rid of the baby fat.

Izzy from powerliftingtowin had another take "always be 6-8 weeks away from abs". This way its real easy to prep for a vacation, photo shoot, or get to competition weight.

23. I guess what I’m asking. Is could I bulk all the way through to say end of April.

Then cut may and June?
Originally Posted by nightanole
You will spend the rest of your life bulking

I tell people to bulk at 1/4-1/3 the rate they can cut at before performance suffers. So if you can only cut at 3kg per month before dropping reps, you better not be bulking at more than 1kg per month.

And if you do the math, that means you will be spending around 3/4 of the year in perma bulk mode, and just doing 1-2 mini cuts to get rid of the baby fat.

Izzy from powerliftingtowin had another take "always be 6-8 weeks away from abs". This way its real easy to prep for a vacation, photo shoot, or get to competition weight.

24. Originally Posted by nezaboy
I guess what I’m asking. Is could I bulk all the way through to say end of April.

Then cut may and June?
a 6 month bulk isnt out of the question. Its certainly better than trying to cut every other or every 3rd cycle. Just remember its going to take at least 1 cycle of eating just enough to get in all the reps other than failing 11 and 12 rep weeks. And odds are it may take 2 cycles.

25. As I’ve not test come off a bulk and into a cut. What can I expect? Will
It be harder to get all the reps in? Will I likely fail a cycle on most lifts?
Originally Posted by nightanole
a 6 month bulk isnt out of the question. Its certainly better than trying to cut every other or every 3rd cycle. Just remember its going to take at least 1 cycle of eating just enough to get in all the reps other than failing 11 and 12 rep weeks. And odds are it may take 2 cycles.

26. Originally Posted by nezaboy
As I’ve not test come off a bulk and into a cut. What can I expect? Will
It be harder to get all the reps in? Will I likely fail a cycle on most lifts?
Yes on a cut you will fail most lifts. Your main goal is to lose fat as quickly as possible while maintaining lifts. Maintaining lifts means getting all reps in on 10 rep week, each cycle.

27. Sounds awful.

I was thinking this weekend about my main goals and I’m happy with progress. I believe Im actually just vain and that I’ve realised I’m way more interested in building muscle mass than I am in building strength. Lifting heavy is fun and all, but really i think it’s coming down to looking good. Is it best to stay on this program until I graduate, and then carry on. Or will there be a better program after this for hypertrophy? I think I would struggle for time for more than 3 days in the gym
Originally Posted by nightanole
Yes on a cut you will fail most lifts. Your main goal is to lose fat as quickly as possible while maintaining lifts. Maintaining lifts means getting all reps in on 10 rep week, each cycle.

28. Originally Posted by nezaboy
Sounds awful.

I was thinking this weekend about my main goals and I’m happy with progress. I believe Im actually just vain and that I’ve realised I’m way more interested in building muscle mass than I am in building strength. Lifting heavy is fun and all, but really i think it’s coming down to looking good. Is it best to stay on this program until I graduate, and then carry on. Or will there be a better program after this for hypertrophy? I think I would struggle for time for more than 3 days in the gym
This is literally a 100% muscle mass routine. At no point do you see "strength" anywhere. This is "hypertrophy work". Get in and out of the gym as quickly as possible for muscle growth so you can start recovering.

A "strength routine" will build just as much muscle, but will take 1.5-2.5 hours, because training for strength requires much more rest time between sets, and many many more sets in order to get enough volume for growth. Even a strength/hypertrophy split might be sets of 5 at 85% of 1rm, with 7-10min rests. Yes 45min for 1 lift...

29. That’s what I want then! I’m looking forward to self regulate just to mix it up a little. It’s been tough this year with a routine as everyone
I start getting somewhere they close the gyms again.
Originally Posted by nightanole
This is literally a 100% muscle mass routine. At no point do you see "strength" anywhere. This is "hypertrophy work". Get in and out of the gym as quickly as possible for muscle growth so you can start recovering.

A "strength routine" will build just as much muscle, but will take 1.5-2.5 hours, because training for strength requires much more rest time between sets, and many many more sets in order to get enough volume for growth. Even a strength/hypertrophy split might be sets of 5 at 85% of 1rm, with 7-10min rests. Yes 45min for 1 lift...

30. New to this, pardon my silly question.

so do I do 4 sets for all exercises? Because it says that the first week do all 4 sets for 8 reps. but in the FAQ section, from over head press onwards, it only says 2 work-sets.

Squats: warm-up, warm-up, work-set, work-set
Bench Press: warm-up, warm-up, work-set, work-set
Bent Over Row: warm-up, warm-up, work-set, work-set
Curls: work-set, work-set
Calf Raises: work-set, work-set

So from what I'm getting is the first 3 exercises - 4 sets (2 warm-ups and 2 work-sets), and the last 4 exercises (just 2 work-sets without warm-up), i.e. warm-ups are optional?

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