AllPro: A Simple Beginner's Routine part VII

[nightanole]

Thanks for the response nightanole! Another quick question. I saw that you recommend doing upright rows instead of barbell curls. Would it be too much to do both of them? If its ok to do both of them what should be the workout ordering?

The core program is:
full body full knee bend
A push
Full body pull

The accessories:
full hip hinge
a push from a different angle
a pull from a different angle

cosmetic calf work


Now if you want to make your two pulls, bent over row and upright row, then you can move bar bell curls to be one of your two bonus accessories that are done at the end of the workout. So if you have passed two test days, you can add the barbell curl at the end of the workout. once you pass three test days you can add an additional accessory, which brings this beginner routine up to 9 exercises per session lOLOLOOL

The limiting factor will be your lower back recovery. If the curl kills your OHP and row form, you are doing too much and may want to try a chinup instead.

[ghispan]

I am on week 4, and I failed the last set on bench press on the max day.

Instead of 11 reps I could only do 7. Had to rest for 10 seconds in order to finalise.

Is there any exercise or tip I could use in order to improve my performance on bench press?

[STT816]

hey nightanole.i sent you a pm but it didn't seem to go through, feel free to pm me if posting about a different program isnt allowe..not sure if you remember me but you helped me out when I was doing allpros.. I had been getting treated for hypothyroidism and my doctor said to take some time off. I did, but now I’ve been back lifting for about 1 year now. you got me started on the modified allpros routine 2x a week... After that I’ve been running the 531 2x a week program. I still have to be careful not to run myself into the ground…My main goal right now is aesthetics/hypertrophy.

I still wish to have 2 main workouts per week, but I wanted to add 1-2 days where I could throw in some bodybuilder accessory days.

I was thinking something like

Day 1
Just the Squat/Bench

Day 2
Just the Deadlift/Press

Day 3
Bodybuilder day with dumbbells/bw/machines
maybe something like

Superset 3x8-12
DB Row
DB Bench

Superset 3x8-12
Lat Pulldown
DB Press

Superset 3x8-12
Leg Press
Back Raise

Curls

I need something that won’t tax my body too much. I have a home gym with a rack and barbell…but I just got a membership to planet fitness. I missed the gym atmosphere and wanted to join. So I’ll do my main barbell lifts at home then go to planet fitness for the additional days.

They don’t have barbells which is fine…but they really have everything else…I was wondering how you would setup these additional days. Or if you have better suggestions for routines. thanks

[nightanole]

I am on week 4, and I failed the last set on bench press on the max day.

Instead of 11 reps I could only do 7. Had to rest for 10 seconds in order to finalise.

Is there any exercise or tip I could use in order to improve my performance on bench press?

If this is your first cycle, roll the weight back 5-10%. You must have a guaranteed pass on test day to be in the groove.

Else it could be that you are not meant to progress at 10%, and you might start progressing at 5% (passing every other test day).

But hell it could be anything. lack of recovery, inefficient form(pushing straight up) that you got by with till this weight. Glycogen stores not being fully restored due to bad diet or lack of cardio.

What seems to fix a lot of people is a very heavy single or double rep set or two at the end of the workout. A floor press is the safest to try out. This will reveal inefficient form or if you are dogging the weight just to get the reps in(not pushing hard because its exhausting).

[nightanole]

hey nightanole.i sent you a pm but it didn't seem to go through, feel free to pm me if posting about a different program isnt allowe..not sure if you remember me but you helped me out when I was doing allpros.. I had been getting treated for hypothyroidism and my doctor said to take some time off. I did, but now I’ve been back lifting for about 1 year now. you got me started on the modified allpros routine 2x a week... After that I’ve been running the 531 2x a week program. I still have to be careful not to run myself into the ground…My main goal right now is aesthetics/hypertrophy.

I still wish to have 2 main workouts per week, but I wanted to add 1-2 days where I could throw in some bodybuilder accessory days.

I was thinking something like

Day 1
Just the Squat/Bench

Day 2
Just the Deadlift/Press

Day 3
Bodybuilder day with dumbbells/bw/machines
maybe something like

Superset 3x8-12
DB Row
DB Bench

Superset 3x8-12
Lat Pulldown
DB Press

Superset 3x8-12
Leg Press
Back Raise

Curls

I need something that won’t tax my body too much. I have a home gym with a rack and barbell…but I just got a membership to planet fitness. I missed the gym atmosphere and wanted to join. So I’ll do my main barbell lifts at home then go to planet fitness for the additional days.

They don’t have barbells which is fine…but they really have everything else…I was wondering how you would setup these additional days. Or if you have better suggestions for routines. thanks

I dont even look at PM's any more because the new layout is just awful and you cant tell you have any if you are just viewing the forum posts.


But anyway...

If i was going to make a body building day, and i had "performance/recovery issues" i would choose single joint movements, dumb bell preferred. This would not tax your cns nor your internal organs (every day is liver day).

instead of Lat Pulldown and DB Press. You could do lat pulldown and seated supination curls. DB Row DB Bench could be a chest supported row and scull crushers with lots of elbow movement.

Leg press and back raise sound fine, do not do leg extensions. And if leg press is still too much, you could always just do leg curls, most dont need leg press unless the quads are not cosmetic enough.

[Layla234]

Upper/lower splits are best for someone I'd call an advanced beginner. By only training your upper or lower body in the same workout, you can recover better in between each training session, so you can push the intensity a bit more.

[Layla234]

Thank you so much for this engaging and super-helpful, essential skills course!

[Layla234]

Thank you so much for this engaging and super-helpful, essential skills course!

[mancomb]

In short: this routine got me back to the gym after 15 years!

The longer version: I used to hit the gym every now and then to supplement MMA training, 15 years back or so. Since then I've battled some mild forms of depression and alcoholism and walking has been my main form of exercising. At the end of 2022 my local gym had a great offer on their membership - I'm talking less than 15$ per month for a modern, well-equipped place. Worked on my technique for two weeks, while looking for a program / routine I'd enjoy. I've read the actual Starting Strength book by Rippetoe and the results are undeniable, but I just find any 3x5 or 5x5 program boring. Gainit or some similar subreddit had a tool for selecting a routine and it pointed me to this one. I was sold on the spot!

After getting my life back together, I'm now living the best (and busiest!) time of my life - wife, small baby girl, awesome job I love. About to finish up week 3 of cycle 2 tomorrow - been hitting the gym three times a week for 10 weeks now! The programming feels fun and challenging - it has way more reps and exercises for each workout then the usual go-to beginner programs which I like. I know I'll most likely be struggling with test day of cycle three as I still have some nutrition issues and the baby is not making sleeping well a possibility. Even so, I'm feeling super motivated and I know I'll simply double up on cycle 3 to pass the test.

Thank you for the great write up!

[ghispan]

If this is your first cycle, roll the weight back 5-10%. You must have a guaranteed pass on test day to be in the groove.

Else it could be that you are not meant to progress at 10%, and you might start progressing at 5% (passing every other test day).

But hell it could be anything. lack of recovery, inefficient form(pushing straight up) that you got by with till this weight. Glycogen stores not being fully restored due to bad diet or lack of cardio.

What seems to fix a lot of people is a very heavy single or double rep set or two at the end of the workout. A floor press is the safest to try out. This will reveal inefficient form or if you are dogging the weight just to get the reps in(not pushing hard because its exhausting).

Thank you very much for your detailed answer, nightanole.

Your advice makes sense to me. Lately I am not able to rest well and I am also skipping cardio; I will focus on improving these two points.

I will also revise my form to ensure I minimise technique mistakes.

[NicholasMango]

in the FAQ allpro said the OHP would have to be replaced by 2 exercises if cut. my ceiling is low enough that I can place my palm on it without fully extending my arm.
How should I best replace the OHP? I have a powerack and barbell only.

additionally, could I split the routine into upper and lower and lift 6 days a week instead of three?

[nightanole]

in the FAQ allpro said the OHP would have to be replaced by 2 exercises if cut. my ceiling is low enough that I can place my palm on it without fully extending my arm.
How should I best replace the OHP? I have a powerack and barbell only.

additionally, could I split the routine into upper and lower and lift 6 days a week instead of three?

Do not look at REV 1 of the program. If you are on the thread where it says warm up for every exercise, that is too early to follow the advice.

Anyway Your only choice is to do it seated, and you might even be able to do a "floor press" version by having the bar rest on the power rack pins at chest level, this will turn every rep into a paused rep since you lose the bounce. If you have dumbbells, you can do the seated arnold press.

As for splitting the routine, you can only spit it into its groups of primary and accessory, and this will reduce core strength gains:

Bench/OHP
Squat/SLDL
Row/Curl variant
calf work as needed

[STT816]

I dont even look at PM's any more because the new layout is just awful and you cant tell you have any if you are just viewing the forum posts.


But anyway...

If i was going to make a body building day, and i had "performance/recovery issues" i would choose single joint movements, dumb bell preferred. This would not tax your cns nor your internal organs (every day is liver day).

instead of Lat Pulldown and DB Press. You could do lat pulldown and seated supination curls. DB Row DB Bench could be a chest supported row and scull crushers with lots of elbow movement.

Leg press and back raise sound fine, do not do leg extensions. And if leg press is still too much, you could always just do leg curls, most dont need leg press unless the quads are not cosmetic enough.

I was actually thinking of adapting something like the PHUL routine. Again my goal is mostly aesthetics

Just wondering how I should sort the first strength upper and lower days…maybe the 2nd lift should be lighter, higher rep? Then I could flip flop them the next week? So it would be

Full Body Strength
531 Squats
531 Bench Presses
3x5-8 Bent-Over Rows
3x5-8 Overhead Barbell Presses
3x5-8 Stiff-Legged Deadlifts


Hypertrophy Upper
Incline DB Press
Flat DB Fly
Seated Cable Row
One Arm Row
DB Lateral Raise
Cable Curl
Cable tricep extension

Hypertrophy Lower
Leg Press
Split Squat
Leg Extension
Leg Curl
Seated Calf Raise
Calf Press

[nightanole]

I was actually thinking of adapting something like the PHUL routine. Again my goal is mostly aesthetics

Just wondering how I should sort the first strength upper and lower days…maybe the 2nd lift should be lighter, higher rep? Then I could flip flop them the next week? So it would be

Full Body Strength
531 Squats
531 Bench Presses
3x5-8 Bent-Over Rows
3x5-8 Overhead Barbell Presses
3x5-8 Stiff-Legged Deadlifts


Hypertrophy Upper
Incline DB Press
Flat DB Fly
Seated Cable Row
One Arm Row
DB Lateral Raise
Cable Curl
Cable tricep extension

Hypertrophy Lower
Leg Press
Split Squat
Leg Extension
Leg Curl
Seated Calf Raise
Calf Press

This is getting outside of my area, but...

I would not do OHP on 531 bench day. You may be able to do a DB press or some other "back supported press". Or your program may allow alternating bench and OHP like greyskull LP.

for Hyper lower, i do not recommend leg extensions for any routine. They are an unnatural torque and will cause knee issues very quickly. Id only program them in for very short times for a rehab or something. Quads should be fine with leg press and split squat. Split squat remember to not cheat by leaning forward. For more quad(which most dont need) there is a "ladder climber" machine for a lack of a better term, basically an upright leg press.

[Jimbob81]

I have transfered from a bodyweight program and and mimicking all pros in design and progression, which I used to do back in the day.
Routine as follows:

Pull up 2x8-12
Split squats 2x8-12
Dips (chest) 2x8-12
Inverted rows 2x8-12
Pike pushup 2x8-12
SLDL 2x8-12
Curl 2x8-12

I'm using bands for the squats, SLDL and curls. Pulls and dips with dipping belt. Bodyweight progressions for the rest.

Question is can I deload by one rep on my medium day and two on my light days instead of 10 and 20%?

[nightanole]

I have transfered from a bodyweight program and and mimicking all pros in design and progression, which I used to do back in the day.
Routine as follows:

Pull up 2x8-12
Split squats 2x8-12
Dips (chest) 2x8-12
Inverted rows 2x8-12
Pike pushup 2x8-12
SLDL 2x8-12
Curl 2x8-12

I'm using bands for the squats, SLDL and curls. Pulls and dips with dipping belt. Bodyweight progressions for the rest.

Question is can I deload by one rep on my medium day and two on my light days instead of 10 and 20%?

Your medium and light days have to be less tension on your connective tissue. Reducing reps does not do this.

You can run allpro autoregulated, and then you can use different rep ranges, but then you need to include the deload protocol.

[dmesg]

Hello! Checkin in after a few cycles of running this program. My current stats are the following:

Height: 6'0''
Weight: 187lbs
Age: 35

Lifts (current cycle):

- Bench: 150
- Squat: 190
- Row: 135
- OHP: 75
- SLDL: 150
- BB Curls: 70
- Accessories: Usually 4x5 BW dips + 10 chin-ups on medium and/or light day
- At least 3x40mins cardio sessions per week

When I started the program (more than a year ago) my lifts were something like:

BW: 171 lbs

- Bench: 105
- Squat: 135
- Row 85
- OHP: 55
- SLDL: 95

So, at first I was worried about my slow progress, but I accepted that I wasn't being very consistent with my workouts and diet. I don't mean that I eat and train like crap, but a lot of travel, some injuries and 2xcovid set me back quite a bit.

Nevertheless, I still struggle quite a bit with bench and OHP, I don't know why but those lifts are the ones I have the hardest time progressing with.

Is there something else I can do to support those, like an accessory exercise? Or is it just a matter of fine tunning diet and rest?

Overall I'm happy with how my physique has improved, I do have noticeable gains. I'm not so happy though with my slow progression. I feel like I should have better numbers by now, but maybe it's normal, what do you think?

[nightanole]

Hello! Checkin in after a few cycles of running this program. My current stats are the following:

Height: 6'0''
Weight: 187lbs
Age: 35

Lifts (current cycle):

- Bench: 150
- Squat: 190
- Row: 135
- OHP: 75
- SLDL: 150
- BB Curls: 70
- Accessories: Usually 4x5 BW dips + 10 chin-ups on medium and/or light day
- At least 3x40mins cardio sessions per week

When I started the program (more than a year ago) my lifts were something like:

BW: 171 lbs

- Bench: 105
- Squat: 135
- Row 85
- OHP: 55
- SLDL: 95

So, at first I was worried about my slow progress, but I accepted that I wasn't being very consistent with my workouts and diet. I don't mean that I eat and train like crap, but a lot of travel, some injuries and 2xcovid set me back quite a bit.

Nevertheless, I still struggle quite a bit with bench and OHP, I don't know why but those lifts are the ones I have the hardest time progressing with.

Is there something else I can do to support those, like an accessory exercise? Or is it just a matter of fine tunning diet and rest?

Overall I'm happy with how my physique has improved, I do have noticeable gains. I'm not so happy though with my slow progression. I feel like I should have better numbers by now, but maybe it's normal, what do you think?

Your numbers are inline, other than your OHP is too low. If you are doing 150 on bench, you should be doing around 100 on OHP.

OHP is difficult to program, as you cant really throw volume at it. I would try a few really heavy reps of either OHP with a different grip, or a few push presses.

You know you are in spec when you can push press your bench working weight for 1 rep, and you are not near that.

But if you look at your numbers over all, you are going to be benching body weight for 10, around the same time as you will be squatting 1.25-1.5x body weight for 10. So that is the good news.

[STT816]

Hey night

I’ve been doing 2 bodybuilder days and resting about 2 mins between sets..8-12 reps

My last lower body day I also made sure to rest just 2 mins between exercises as well meaning

Leg press do all my sets then rest only 2 mins then go on to Bulgarian split squat

I think think small rest between exercises messed me up and I’ve been tired for nearly a week now..what would you say is proper rest time between exercises…not sets..thanks

[nightanole]

Hey night

I’ve been doing 2 bodybuilder days and resting about 2 mins between sets..8-12 reps

My last lower body day I also made sure to rest just 2 mins between exercises as well meaning

Leg press do all my sets then rest only 2 mins then go on to Bulgarian split squat

I think think small rest between exercises messed me up and I’ve been tired for nearly a week now..what would you say is proper rest time between exercises…not sets..thanks

There is no proper rest time, it is unlimited. Decreasing rest time between sets and between exercises is also not progression.

On allpro i have had folks do 10-15min rests after just squats. Their legs are shaking and their lips are numb after squats.

You are free to have unlimited rest.

You are free to break up the routine into multiple sessions. The only rule is accessories need to be done in the same session as the main lift.

Allpros exercise order is so you dont hit the same muscle group back to back, so you dont need to rest, and can get in and out of the gym as quickly as possible. However once you are an intermediate and can handle a good amount of volume, this pattern is not going to work well. A beginner cant tax themselves much, so they can recover from going to failure much more quickly vs an intermediate.

Hell even for "normal" programs, Rippetoe expects you to be resting over 10min just so you dont miss a rep on any set. So if you get all the reps in the first set, if you miss reps on any other set, you "rushed" the sets. Its the same with resting inbetween lifts. Limiting your rest time doesnt help you.

[mancomb]

Hi there!
I'm about to have my next test day next Monday, a few cycles in now. Squat is my highest lift, row is within 10% of my bench and my OHP is over 60% of bench. Also tried it out and I can OHP my bench press work set weight - feels like I'm in spec. I'm not a big guy and never done any physical activities before this, squat at 135 lbs.

Assuming I'll pass the test day I think it's time I added in my first accessory. Now, I'm exercising to stay healthier & stronger and to keep any back or neck pains away. I don't care about my looks, at all (getting more fit is just an added bonus). What would you say is the best accessory to add in first for overall strength gains in the long run?

[nightanole]

Hi there!
I'm about to have my next test day next Monday, a few cycles in now. Squat is my highest lift, row is within 10% of my bench and my OHP is over 60% of bench. Also tried it out and I can OHP my bench press work set weight - feels like I'm in spec. I'm not a big guy and never done any physical activities before this, squat at 135 lbs.

Assuming I'll pass the test day I think it's time I added in my first accessory. Now, I'm exercising to stay healthier & stronger and to keep any back or neck pains away. I don't care about my looks, at all (getting more fit is just an added bonus). What would you say is the best accessory to add in first for overall strength gains in the long run?

With allpro(and any beginner routine) there are heavy odds you will cosmetically need lat and side delt work. I normally recommend some type of chinup and a slightly bent over lateral raise with pinky knuckle below the index finger knuckle (so you dont floss your rotator cuff with your connecting tissue)

Or you can just go the GPP route, and do high foot(ankle gets to the knee, no shuffling) farmer walks/carries or anything that involves carrying so you get grip work.

[Cermit]

Yes

[marcosruben833]

Hi nightanole!

I was wondering if I could replace the SLDL for a RDL on the first day, and leg curls on the 2nd & 3rd day.
I trying to learn this exercise with my PT, but he said I am not built for it (behind the knee tendons shorter maybe), but I can do RDL (I don't like it) and conventional DL easily. What do you say?

About the size gains, if any with this novice program, I don't want to lose the look that "I lift".

[nightanole]

Hi nightanole!

I was wondering if I could replace the SLDL for a RDL on the first day, and leg curls on the 2nd & 3rd day.
I trying to learn this exercise with my PT, but he said I am not built for it (behind the knee tendons shorter maybe), but I can do RDL (I don't like it) and conventional DL easily. What do you say?

About the size gains, if any with this novice program, I don't want to lose the look that "I lift".

The SLDL can be replaced with a eccentric RDL (aka a traditional deadlift with a focus on slowly lowering the weight), but before you do that, i would try "good mornings". The only problem with RDL and SDL is recovery since you will be doing them for high rep 3x a week. And no you can not rotate exercises, its gotta be the same exercise all cycle. At best you could cycle between RDL and leg curls every other cycle.


As far as size gains, this is a body builder hypertrophy program. Its designed for max muscle gains while remaining lean, at the expense of "performance" and max "weight gain". If you are looking to put on the max amount of mass for football tryouts over the summer, allpro is not the program for you. On the other hand if you are looking for a beach vacation/wedding by the end of the summer, well you are going to "look" like crap running 5x5 and being 5.9 200lbs and 18-22% BF and DLing 400lbs.

[Delvinester]

The core program is:
full body full knee bend
A push
Full body pull

The accessories:
full hip hinge
a push from a different angle
a pull from a different angle

cosmetic calf work


Now if you want to make your two pulls, bent over row and upright row, then you can move bar bell curls to be one of your two bonus accessories that are done at the end of the workout. So if you have passed two test days, you can add the barbell curl at the end of the workout. once you pass three test days you can add an additional accessory, which brings this beginner routine up to 9 exercises per session lOLOLOOL

The limiting factor will be your lower back recovery. If the curl kills your OHP and row form, you are doing too much and may want to try a chinup instead.

Thanks for the great content will defs consider

[Raidersfan13]

I am training for a marathon, planning to do some runs 3x a week on my off-days from the program. Any adjustments or considerations to make with the lifts? Bit concerned about recovery

[nightanole]

I am training for a marathon, planning to do some runs 3x a week on my off-days from the program. Any adjustments or considerations to make with the lifts? Bit concerned about recovery

The only thing that affects the program is "bouts of cardio that can not be sustained for at least 45min". So you should be good unless its something like "i want to do a sub 18min 5k 3x a week". For max recovery, you want to do the running training directly after the allpro workout, or at least as close as you can. The worst for recovery would be doing during your 72 hours of rest before your heavy day.

[mancomb]

Back again!
I know no exercise fully replaces barbell bench press, but what would be the next best thing? Since starting out, I've improved my bench press 1RPM from 90 lbs to 155 lbs but it really seems like the exercise isn't for me as I'm starting to get aches all over my right shoulder with my current weights. All my joints overextend and my other collar bone rests lower than the other - I'm just jerry-built heh. I've been to the doctor and physiotherapy and both agreed it's just the way I'm built
Should I stick to lower weights to see if it improves over time? Do dumbell bench press? Switch to using a machine? I don't mind doing several exercises, either, I have the time.
Thanks again!

[nightanole]

Back again!
I know no exercise fully replaces barbell bench press, but what would be the next best thing? Since starting out, I've improved my bench press 1RPM from 90 lbs to 155 lbs but it really seems like the exercise isn't for me as I'm starting to get aches all over my right shoulder with my current weights. All my joints overextend and my other collar bone rests lower than the other - I'm just jerry-built heh. I've been to the doctor and physiotherapy and both agreed it's just the way I'm built
Should I stick to lower weights to see if it improves over time? Do dumbell bench press? Switch to using a machine? I don't mind doing several exercises, either, I have the time.
Thanks again!

The alt for the bench press is the floor press. You might even be able to get your back off the floor a bit with a mat. But that is the safest for questionable shoulders, and the reduced rom is almost made up by the dead stop at the bottom, turning every rep int a rest/pause rep.

Or you can try a slight decline.

Or weighted tricep/chest dips.

If you are not trying out for football that requires so many reps of 225, there is no real point of sticking with the basic bench if you are not competing.

You can even try reverse grip bench to open up your shoulders, but SAFTY BARS is a mandatory requirement if you want to keep your teeth / live for a long time. Spotters wont cut it.