AllPro: A Simple Beginner's Routine part VII

[nightanole]

Thank you nightanole! There is a way to do the deadlift but I think it isn't as effective

How about a goodmorning?

[MozYNWA]

Hey there!

Coming back after a 5 week lay off, had my appendix removed, been cleared to get back to the gym but not to lift anymore than 50lbs so basically empty bar for the next 4-6 weeks, could I start the program with an empty bar or would it take way to long to get to a point where the program would be challenging enough.

[nightanole]

Hey there!

Coming back after a 5 week lay off, had my appendix removed, been cleared to get back to the gym but not to lift anymore than 50lbs so basically empty bar for the next 4-6 weeks, could I start the program with an empty bar or would it take way to long to get to a point where the program would be challenging enough.

You would just drastically lower the rest time between sets, or just do all 16 reps in one set or something. You could also make the lifts harder with several second pauses at the bottom.

Once you are cleared you can start adding weight. You dont add 10% per cycle, you add at least 10% per cycle. You might be adding 50-100% for a few cycles if you are used to working with above 100lbs.

[gaz1980]

Over the last year I've had stiffness and clicking in my neck (at times either when I'm working out or not), and it sounds like some form of crepitus after googling (assuming nothing more serious). May also be my posture. But I can feel it straining and uncomfortable on bent over rows.

Is there anything I can swap this with that will work the back/neck with less strain? People have recommended dead hangs before working out, does that sound like a good idea?

[nightanole]

Over the last year I've had stiffness and clicking in my neck (at times either when I'm working out or not), and it sounds like some form of crepitus after googling (assuming nothing more serious). May also be my posture. But I can feel it straining and uncomfortable on bent over rows.

Is there anything I can swap this with that will work the back/neck with less strain? People have recommended dead hangs before working out, does that sound like a good idea?

You need to pull from 2 different angles to be "balanced". For allpro that is the row and the curl variant. And the bent over row also reinforces the back.

If you are not rowing much above body weight, you could try out the inverted row. You would have to switch progression to a body weight style which i am not going to go into.

I do not recommend doing much static stretching before a workout. You could do some active stretching with bands or some traction exercises also with bands. And you can dead hangs after the workout or any time an hour or more before a workout. Ive done 1 minute dead hangs and alternating 1 handed hangs plenty of times for rehab of my bad shoulder. You know when you dont need to do it any more when you can instant hang pain free. You are still in rehab if it still hurts and then goes away as you start to hang.

[Tribidon]

I screwed up.

I'm on the 10th reps cycle(?). All my exercises for my heavy day are done - all 10 reps. Except for my bench press.

1. Should I repeat heavy day 10 reps for all my exercises?

2. Or do I restart the whole cycle? I.e. start from heavy day 1 with 8 reps. and lower my weight for bench press by 10%?

3. Or just continue with 11 reps and then only repeat cycle only if i fail test day (12 reps)?

Hope I'm making sense and thank you in advance.

[nightanole]

I screwed up.

I'm on the 10th reps cycle(?). All my exercises for my heavy day are done - all 10 reps. Except for my bench press.

1. Should I repeat heavy day 10 reps for all my exercises?

2. Or do I restart the whole cycle? I.e. start from heavy day 1 with 8 reps. and lower my weight for bench press by 10%?

3. Or just continue with 11 reps and then only repeat cycle only if i fail test day (12 reps)?

Hope I'm making sense and thank you in advance.

If you miss reps, you just continue on. You are not expected to get all reps every workout, other than 'test day".

Missing reps on 8-10 rep weeks is a concern since the stress is less than the previous cycles test day.

If this is your first cycle i would drop the working weight of bench by 10%. If test day is easy, you can always bump 15-20% instead of the minimum 10%.

If this is not your first cycle, its a recovery issue. The quickest thing is to increase carbs if you cant figure out what is robbing recovery (stress, sick, sleep, etc).

[Tribidon]

If you miss reps, you just continue on. You are not expected to get all reps every workout, other than 'test day".

Missing reps on 8-10 rep weeks is a concern since the stress is less than the previous cycles test day.

If this is your first cycle i would drop the working weight of bench by 10%. If test day is easy, you can always bump 15-20% instead of the minimum 10%.

If this is not your first cycle, its a recovery issue. The quickest thing is to increase carbs if you cant figure out what is robbing recovery (stress, sick, sleep, etc).

A genuine thank you! appreciate it, this makes sense to me.

[SkullnBones]

Hi Nightanole,

I am currently on my 7th cycle and on test day today I failed my first set of OHP (Hit 11 reps). When failing during the first set should you still attempt the second or should you call it there?

I struggled to find an answer online so stopped that excercise after I failed.

Thanks for your help in advance :-)

[nightanole]

Hi Nightanole,

I am currently on my 7th cycle and on test day today I failed my first set of OHP (Hit 11 reps). When failing during the first set should you still attempt the second or should you call it there?

I struggled to find an answer online so stopped that excercise after I failed.

Thanks for your help in advance :-)

You still go for the second set since the final two-three weeks of the cycle are the over reach sections of the program(you shouldnt be able to do 11 rep week over and over without getting buried in fatigue).

If you think the OHP was a false fail, on light day this week try for 1 set of 10 at 110%. If you fail again it was not mean to be.

[UtkelbaevR]

Narrow or wide grip?

wide

[UtkelbaevR]

thanks for posting these, should be a big help while I'm starting out

yes i m also

[UtkelbaevR]

Over the last year I've had stiffness and clicking in my neck (at times either when I'm working out or not), and it sounds like some form of crepitus after googling (assuming nothing more serious). May also be my posture. But I can feel it straining and uncomfortable on bent over rows.

Is there anything I can swap this with that will work the back/neck with less strain? People have recommended dead hangs before working out, does that sound like a good idea?

I'm wondering the same thing.

[UtkelbaevR]

I screwed up.

I'm on the 10th reps cycle(?). All my exercises for my heavy day are done - all 10 reps. Except for my bench press.

1. Should I repeat heavy day 10 reps for all my exercises?

2. Or do I restart the whole cycle? I.e. start from heavy day 1 with 8 reps. and lower my weight for bench press by 10%?

3. Or just continue with 11 reps and then only repeat cycle only if i fail test day (12 reps)?

Hope I'm making sense and thank you in advance.

I think with 11 repetitions it's better

[UtkelbaevR]

Over the last year I've had stiffness and clicking in my neck (at times either when I'm working out or not), and it sounds like some form of crepitus after googling (assuming nothing more serious). May also be my posture. But I can feel it straining and uncomfortable on bent over rows.

Is there anything I can swap this with that will work the back/neck with less strain? People have recommended dead hangs before working out, does that sound like a good idea?

oh yes

[tont108]

Hi nightanole,

I like to play badminton when I'm not weightlifting. Would this impact recovery? Should I play badminton at a lower intensity or just choose a different type of cardio? Also are there any modifications that you would suggest if I were to continue playing badminton?

[nightanole]

Hi nightanole,

I like to play badminton when I'm not weightlifting. Would this impact recovery? Should I play badminton at a lower intensity or just choose a different type of cardio? Also are there any modifications that you would suggest if I were to continue playing badminton?

Most beginner routines can be ran on "on season" and/or while working a laborious warehouse job just fine. You maybe be able to skip the cardio, and may have to up the carbs, but other than that you should not have to adjust the program nor your badminton.

[Wass85]

I haven't worked out in a few years now, would you recommend Fierce 5 or AllPro, I would like to lose around 10KG and keep as much muscle as possible.

[nightanole]

I haven't worked out in a few years now, would you recommend Fierce 5 or AllPro, I would like to lose around 10KG and keep as much muscle as possible.

Id say allpro would be more due able for losing 2kg a cycle for 5 cycles. If you run F5 you are going to be failing sets and resetting "alot". Id say F5 has the advantage due to the longer recover time between the same lift/workout "if" you know how to fail correctly, if you tough it out etc, its going to beat the crap out of you.

[FrancisSoyer]

[Wass85]

Id say allpro would be more due able for losing 2kg a cycle for 5 cycles. If you run F5 you are going to be failing sets and resetting "alot". Id say F5 has the advantage due to the longer recover time between the same lift/workout "if" you know how to fail correctly, if you tough it out etc, its going to beat the crap out of you.

Can I do this workout and just do the same weight and slowly add to it like in other routines instead of having light days and heavy days?

[tmiddled]

I'm about to start this program. I have Subacromial bursitis and a partial supraspinatus tear (both right shoulder). Overhead press seems to agrevate my shoulder.

Is there a good substitution for OHP? Front lat raise for instance is good rehab work for my shoulder anyway so was thinking about doing that instead. Or is there a better exercise to sub?

Also, if I do front lat raise, would it be advised to add a tricep exercise (e.g. BB skullcrusher) given that I won't be hitting my tri's in the front lat raise like I would with OHP?

I was progressing really well with the Starting Strength program and had to take off ~6 weeks to let my shoulder pain subside so am back to square 1 basically and looking for a program where OHP isn't such a critical part of the program.

[nightanole]

Can I do this workout and just do the same weight and slowly add to it like in other routines instead of having light days and heavy days?

No because there is no deload protocol and heavy days working weight should be so heavy its not sustainable throughout the week/cycle.

There is a variant in OP called "auto regulated" that would allow you to use the same weight every workout, but there is not 'add 5lbs every workout" variant.

[nightanole]

I'm about to start this program. I have Subacromial bursitis and a partial supraspinatus tear (both right shoulder). Overhead press seems to agrevate my shoulder.

Is there a good substitution for OHP? Front lat raise for instance is good rehab work for my shoulder anyway so was thinking about doing that instead. Or is there a better exercise to sub?

Also, if I do front lat raise, would it be advised to add a tricep exercise (e.g. BB skullcrusher) given that I won't be hitting my tri's in the front lat raise like I would with OHP?

I was progressing really well with the Starting Strength program and had to take off ~6 weeks to let my shoulder pain subside so am back to square 1 basically and looking for a program where OHP isn't such a critical part of the program.

The ruling is "two multi joint pushes from two different angles". Default is the bench and OHP.

Some people do decline bench and the arnold press

I do weighted dips and thumbs under OHP to work around my wrists



For you i would try a few variants of the OHP before you give up on it. the "tightest" is the one taught by Mark Rippetoe and "the art of manliness" on youtube has an excellent video on it. Very springy at chest level and its as close to a benchpress as you can get. But its also very high tension and some people such as myself cant do it.

The exact opposite is the false/monkey/thumbs under grip that alan thrall and jason blaha teach. It is very loose at chest level and you can get very low on the chest even with bad proportions or lack of mobility. The down side is every rep is basically a pause rep because you can not build up tension on the way down.

And the recommended Allpro variant is the seated dumb bell arnold press. You cant use as much weight(even half body weight gets hard to get into position with 50+ dumb bells while sitting), and its not as full body. On the other hand its very good on the shoulders and uses more shoulder secondary muscles.

[Wass85]

No because there is no deload protocol and heavy days working weight should be so heavy its not sustainable throughout the week/cycle.

There is a variant in OP called "auto regulated" that would allow you to use the same weight every workout, but there is not 'add 5lbs every workout" variant.

I don't understand why you have to deload if you treat it like any other full body routine whereby you add a small amount of weight each week or an extra rep each set?

[tmiddled]

For you i would try a few variants of the OHP before you give up on it. the "tightest" is the one taught by Mark Rippetoe and "the art of manliness" on youtube has an excellent video on it. Very springy at chest level and its as close to a benchpress as you can get. But its also very high tension and some people such as myself cant do it.

The exact opposite is the false/monkey/thumbs under grip that alan thrall and jason blaha teach. It is very loose at chest level and you can get very low on the chest even with bad proportions or lack of mobility. The down side is every rep is basically a pause rep because you can not build up tension on the way down.

And the recommended Allpro variant is the seated dumb bell arnold press. You cant use as much weight(even half body weight gets hard to get into position with 50+ dumb bells while sitting), and its not as full body. On the other hand its very good on the shoulders and uses more shoulder secondary muscles.

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

I was doing Mark Ripptoe's version as taught in the Starting Strength book and Art of Manlieness channel. But I've tried variants and any movement where I'm pushing overhead seems to aggrevate it. So for now (whilst the Bursistis settles) I want to avoid anything that pushes overhead.

Any recommendation?

[nightanole]

I don't understand why you have to deload if you treat it like any other full body routine whereby you add a small amount of weight each week or an extra rep each set?

Every other full body routine that you add a small amount to has you deloading 10-15% after you miss reps for 1-2 sessions.

Allpro does not ever reduce the weight cycle to cycle.

You are free to run the program using your method, and deload protocol of your choice. But if you can add a little weight to each workout for 2-3 weeks straight, you are not going heavy enough. It should be impossible to do heavy day 3x a week.

[nightanole]

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

I was doing Mark Ripptoe's version as taught in the Starting Strength book and Art of Manlieness channel. But I've tried variants and any movement where I'm pushing overhead seems to aggrevate it. So for now (whilst the Bursistis settles) I want to avoid anything that pushes overhead.

Any recommendation?

How about the most incline and decline bench your shoulders can take without aggravation? That would be your two pushes instead of flat and OHP.

As for delt raises as an accessory, I would recommend slightly bent over with the pinky knuckle below the index knuckle. With the pinky up version all you are doing is flossing your rotator cuff with your connective tissue "so you can feel it" :P

[tmiddled]

How about the most incline and decline bench your shoulders can take without aggravation? That would be your two pushes instead of flat and OHP.

As for delt raises as an accessory, I would recommend slightly bent over with the pinky knuckle below the index knuckle. With the pinky up version all you are doing is flossing your rotator cuff with your connective tissue "so you can feel it" :P

Awesome, thanks for the suggestion, will do that :-)

[tont108]

Thanks for the response nightanole! Another quick question. I saw that you recommend doing upright rows instead of barbell curls. Would it be too much to do both of them? If its ok to do both of them what should be the workout ordering?