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  1. #1
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    Why can't players in America football tackle?

    Genuine question.

    My thinking:

    - The game is not that hard to rationalize as a tackling player, the line is in front of you, its not 360 play like Australian Rules or Gaelic rules.
    - Overspecialization of position, players should have to play both positions, learn to play both sides of the ball.
    - To much delay in flow of game, stop the running on and off the field. To
    - Size of players, because of the delays in game, offense/defense split and rotations - players have become huge but with no cardio (see rugby), play both sides of the ball and you will get players who by the very nature of the extra work, will have to run more and be smaller.
    - "Hitting" has been ruled out in most other professional tackling sports (NRL, AFL, Union) - you have to wrap players up.
    - Helmets seem to make it harder to tackle.

    I think the game could be much better if the bigger players are smaller, the smaller players bigger and your QB, WR etc have to play defense as well offense.
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    Registered User MilkforBrains's Avatar
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    I largely agree. They never pass the ball either, not even talking about the QB. Why don't they pass laterally like in rugby? They'd rather run into a wall than pass - so irritating.

    I never see field goals from play either so it's drifted further from the old codes of English football than any other. At one point the only way to score in rugby was to score a goal. Touchdowns/trys were only added because it's hard af to score a goal when 11 players can act as goalkeepers. This led to the final split between soccer and rugby as soccer removed any handling to deal with difficulty in scoring. Soccer had tiebreaker touchdowns called rouges but were later removed.

    The sheer difference in body types means multiple games are going on in areas instead of one cohesive game.
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    Why the fuk would anyone want Football to resemble rugby or soccer?
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    Football rules have become so dumbed down recently. Would be interesting to see kickers have to dropkick from the 50. It would also eliminate the "dangerous" hits they're trying to avoid instead of slowly taking elements from the game every year.
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    Originally Posted by Vhagar View Post
    Why the fuk would anyone want Football to resemble rugby or soccer?
    This. LDAR OP
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    Luke LukeS1's Avatar
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    The specialisation and lack of cardio needed is the very thing that makes the NFL so exciting

    There isnt another sport where you have 6'3 270lbs dudes that run a 4.5 40 and are strong af, there isnt another sport where olympic level sprinters run at full speed
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    Originally Posted by LukeS1 View Post
    The specialisation and lack of cardio needed is the very thing that makes the NFL so exciting

    There isnt another sport where you have 6'3 270lbs dudes that run a 4.5 40 and are strong af, there isnt another sport where olympic level sprinters run at full speed
    It makes the highlights very exiting. Also makes watching a game start to finish
    dull. Stop. Start. Stop. Start. Stop. Start. Fcking hell.

    Gaelic and Aussie football is closest to the original game. Still physical but like soccer. Soccer has the most magic though.
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    Because they're trying to tackle a large freak athlete. Not some fat **** that hangs out at the local pub for 5 hours a day.
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    Luke LukeS1's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by MilkforBrains View Post
    It makes the highlights very exiting. Also makes watching a game start to finish
    dull. Stop. Start. Stop. Start. Stop. Start. Fcking hell.

    Gaelic and Aussie football is closest to the original game. Still physical but like soccer. Soccer has the most magic though.
    Every second a play is alive all 22 guys are playing at 100% intensity.

    That never happens in football (soccer), rugby etc

    The dead time there is plenty to look at, think about etc as well as its the most tactical and strategic sport there is. If you dont understand or appreciate this aspect, I can understand how its not enjoyable
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    Registered User MilkforBrains's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by LukeS1 View Post
    Every second a play is alive all 22 guys are playing at 100% intensity.

    That never happens in football (soccer), rugby etc

    The dead time there is plenty to look at, think about etc as well as its the most tactical and strategic sport there is. If you dont understand or appreciate this aspect, I can understand how its not enjoyable

    Dead time is no good time. Play the fcking game. Half the time I don't even know why they stop. If think this is why they never pass even though they are entitled to do so like in rugby: too much cardio running and wrestling for huge NFL sized guys. Also wish they'd up the points for goals. Gives smaller guys an edge in this one domain. Sometimes I forget goals can even be scored until I see the punter and think 'oh yeah, that guy'.

    I don't even mind using the term 'soccer'. The term existed before American rules diverged from more Rugby League rules. It's not an Americanism.

    The history of all the codes are interesting af to me. Especially football (soccer)

    The perfect rules for me is the Aussie/Gaelic hybrid rules with the round ball, maybe add scrums for uncertain ref calls. No trys. An offside rule in-between rugby and football. Corner kicks too because heading becomes extinct with fair catch rules.
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    Or just watch rugby or soccer if that's what you want?

    Also lol at making your star QB play defense. brb guy gets injured and you go from Super Bowl contender to last place.
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    Wouldn't less specialization make for worse tackling? Negged
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    Originally Posted by MilkforBrains View Post
    Dead time is no good time. Play the fcking game. Half the time I don't even know why they stop. If think this is why they never pass even though they are entitled to do so like in rugby: too much cardio running and wrestling for huge NFL sized guys. Also wish they'd up the points for goals. Gives smaller guys an edge in this one domain. Sometimes I forget goals can even be scored until I see the punter and think 'oh yeah, that guy'.

    I don't even mind using the term 'soccer'. The term existed before American rules diverged from more Rugby League rules. It's not an Americanism.

    The history of all the codes are interesting af to me. Especially football (soccer)

    The perfect rules for me is the Aussie/Gaelic hybrid rules with the round ball, maybe add scrums for uncertain ref calls. No trys. An offside rule in-between rugby and football. Corner kicks too because heading becomes extinct with fair catch rules.
    Wtf are you talking about

    Go back to homo misc
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    Originally Posted by Vhagar View Post
    Wtf are you talking about

    Go back to homo misc
    Talkng about the best aspects of all the football codes. They tried to spread American rules to my country but no one liked it.
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    Real talk, peace. BobLoblawBrah's Avatar
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    Change your name to SchitforBrains please.

    Firstly, as Luke said. This is a different sport, energy systems are totally anaerobic. Bringing Max effort into every play is what makes each play so violent.

    Second, stoppages are not time to stick your thumb up your ass, they are time to coordinate your next move. You would be absolutely shocked how much preparation and coordination goes into a 25 second stoppage, and these stoppages are also used strategically in the art of the war that is the NFL. You're missing the strategy, which is akin to chess. The first rule of chess is don't rush.

    Similarly, players specialize just as the Bishop, the knight and the pawn only know one direction. It is not to the detriment of the game that all players are not capable of doing everything. That is why chess exceeds checkers.

    Bottom line - appreciate nuance before you try to inject your culture into a game that already knows it is better without it.
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    Originally Posted by LukeS1 View Post
    Every second a play is alive all 22 guys are playing at 100% intensity.
    Ideally anyways, LOL.

    But OP there are many good points made ITT.

    Part of what makes football awesome is the breaks between plays because players are playing with more intensity.

    It especially makes things like DL vs OL from play to play more interesting.

    BRB 260-270+ LB guy trying to get to a spot in like 3-4 seconds with a 300-350 guy trying to stop him.

    Do you think people running back and forth for 90 minutes makes for compelling action and drama?

    No.

    People wanna see big fast guys running into each other at full speed.

    Why do you think **** like wrestling is popular?

    Because it's a freak show of some of the biggest, strongest, athletic guys in the world.

    Think about every movie, story, etc you ever heard in your life where one guy prevails over another.

    In the movie is it like "awww yeah, here comes the part where the guy runs back and forth over and over"?

    No, because that's not compelling.

    In those stories it's big guy vs big guy or some variation of big guy meets his match (ala David and Goliath)

    It's like an archetype for stories, big guy runs into big guy, who wins?
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    Originally Posted by BobLoblawBrah View Post
    Change your name to SchitforBrains please.

    Firstly, as Luke said. This is a different sport, energy systems are totally anaerobic. Bringing Max effort into every play is what makes each play so violent.

    Second, stoppages are not time to stick your thumb up your ass, they are time to coordinate your next move. You would be absolutely shocked how much preparation and coordination goes into a 25 second stoppage, and these stoppages are also used strategically in the art of the war that is the NFL. You're missing the strategy, which is akin to chess. The first rule of chess is don't rush.

    Similarly, players specialize just as the Bishop, the knight and the pawn only know one direction. It is not to the detriment of the game that all players are not capable of doing everything. That is why chess exceeds checkers.

    Bottom line - appreciate nuance before you try to inject your culture into a game that already knows it is better without it.
    No amount of nuance made the world give a chit about it. You've never managed to export it yet.
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    because in rugby, you get a penalty for "interference" if you try and impede a defenders tackle. You cant actually block anyone.

    In football you have to fight around blockers to make the tackle.

    Its ALOT easier to make the tackle when you dont have to fight through blocks to get there.
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    Real talk, peace. BobLoblawBrah's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by MilkforBrains View Post
    No amount of nuance made the world give a chit about it. You've never managed to export it yet.
    There is no intellectual force in your reply.

    First, you act like the rest of the world appreciated the nuances and then still disliked the sport. If you truly understood it or watched it with open curiosity, rather than envy and homerism for sports you already know, you and the rest of the world might gain some insight.

    Second, emphasizing the exportability of a sport as the best measure of it's value is inherently flawed. You cite Australian Rules as a superior sport, yet it is played in 3-4 Aus states alone. Also the NFL is also the richest league in the world so that suggests theres a very real market for it.

    Personally, you'll resolve your issues by looking at your own homeristic biases and appreciating that you like the sports you like because those are the sports your culture fed you, and the hierarchy that you grew up with. At the moment the only rational conclusion is that you are missing something.
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    Originally Posted by MilkforBrains View Post
    No amount of nuance made the world give a chit about it. You've never managed to export it yet.
    The relevant world cares about it plenty

    Go back to soccer phaggot
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    Originally Posted by KennyFisher View Post
    Genuine question.

    My thinking:

    - The game is not that hard to rationalize as a tackling player, the line is in front of you, its not 360 play like Australian Rules or Gaelic rules.
    - Overspecialization of position, players should have to play both positions, learn to play both sides of the ball.
    - To much delay in flow of game, stop the running on and off the field. To
    - Size of players, because of the delays in game, offense/defense split and rotations - players have become huge but with no cardio (see rugby), play both sides of the ball and you will get players who by the very nature of the extra work, will have to run more and be smaller.
    - "Hitting" has been ruled out in most other professional tackling sports (NRL, AFL, Union) - you have to wrap players up.
    - Helmets seem to make it harder to tackle.

    I think the game could be much better if the bigger players are smaller, the smaller players bigger and your QB, WR etc have to play defense as well offense.
    Why do all these great tacklers turn down NFL paydays?
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    All things considered, I think hook and lateral variations are the next thing in NFL.
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    Originally Posted by CougarP01 View Post
    All things considered, I think hook and lateral variations are the next thing in NFL.
    Not a chance. Risk vs reward is too high. That’s why they are only used in desperate late game situations where the offense is too far away for “Hail Mary” or on kick returns.

    Huge difference in rugby with knock on rules, and taking much the risk out of loss of possession via fumble.
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    Originally Posted by akmerle View Post
    Not a chance. Risk vs reward is too high. That’s why they are only used in desperate late game situations where the offense is too far away for “Hail Mary” or on kick returns.

    Huge difference in rugby with knock on rules, and taking much the risk out of loss of possession via fumble.
    I think they can do more, Georgia Southern, of all teams, did some nice low risk late pitches the other day. Nothing makes you **** yourself more than a reverse on kickoff or falling for a flea flicker. But then you have Reggie bush pitching away huge games.

    But yes, there is a premium on ball security like no other sport. There are about 20 possessions a game and one fumble can amount to a 14pt swing - they score and you don't. Turnovers don't matter so much in those other sports. But even look at Barcelona in their prime, they beat all comers by playing a brand of soccer where they did not turn the ball over.
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    Originally Posted by BobLoblawBrah View Post
    I think they can do more, Georgia Southern, of all teams, did some nice low risk late pitches the other day. Nothing makes you **** yourself more than a reverse on kickoff or falling for a flea flicker. But then you have Reggie bush pitching away huge games.

    But yes, there is a premium on ball security like no other sport. There are about 20 possessions a game and one fumble can amount to a 14pt swing - they score and you don't. Turnovers don't matter so much in those other sports. But even look at Barcelona in their prime, they beat all comers by playing a brand of soccer where they did not turn the ball over.
    Lol, if they worked then I PROMISE you they would be used more. They are gimmicky / high risk which when they inevitably arent executed perfectly they are likely to put your team in positions with less chance of success.

    There are enough fumbles on basic QB / RB handoffs. Let along RB / WR handoffs or laterals, outside the hashmarks without the protection of a standard O-line formation, and with the fastest and most dynamic defensive players in middle / back half flying all around.

    Ball control / TOP / turnover battle / field position all have tons of analytics backing up a formula of winning football.
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    Originally Posted by akmerle View Post
    Lol, if they worked then I PROMISE you they would be used more. They are gimmicky / high risk which when they inevitably arent executed perfectly they are likely to put your team in positions with less chance of success.

    There are enough fumbles on basic QB / RB handoffs. Let along RB / WR handoffs or laterals, outside the hashmarks without the protection of a standard O-line formation, and with the fastest and most dynamic defensive players in middle / back half flying all around.

    Ball control / TOP / turnover battle / field position all have tons of analytics backing up a formula of winning football.
    all that said and agreed with, sometimes the meta shifts like in hockey or basketball.. defensemen get too big, you play a small, fast skating team. your center can't match up against the other, you play perimeter small ball. it takes building a team top to bottom to play that method though and stumbling across a connor mcdavid or a steph curry

    i think it's also to do with the tradition of coaching, no one's gonna put their neck on the line for a gimmick. too risk averse.
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    Originally Posted by akmerle View Post
    Lol, if they worked then I PROMISE you they would be used more. They are gimmicky / high risk which when they inevitably arent executed perfectly they are likely to put your team in positions with less chance of success.

    There are enough fumbles on basic QB / RB handoffs. Let along RB / WR handoffs or laterals, outside the hashmarks without the protection of a standard O-line formation, and with the fastest and most dynamic defensive players in middle / back half flying all around.

    Ball control / TOP / turnover battle / field position all have tons of analytics backing up a formula of winning football.
    Youre right I agree with the conservative approach, analytics are on point, but theres also intangibles like momentum shifts, hidden skill sets, lower risk opportunities to dish it off.

    As above, the game changes too. QB's make sidearm throws and fundamentals are less important than X-factor's. The prototype is figured out and innovators disrupt.
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    LOL at thinking an NFL defender wouldn't put 'pub crawl Peter' (or whatever top dad bod "athlete" in rugby goes by) in the hospital.
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