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  1. #61
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    Originally Posted by Strawng View Post
    I’m just going by what the doctors said. Also, FWIW, NYTimes is exceptionally biased. I think this article gives a more nuanced view: https://www.emsworld.com/news/122524...19-death-count. Even if it’s not actually inflated for profit, I think this is a messy business and the full story is impossible to know at the moment.
    I don't know man, NYT may be biased but those arguments they make seem reasonable. They actually say "Experts say it is unrealistic to expect an exact tally for any disease. "

    And if the hospitals do inflate the number, it might actually come closer to the real death toll for the 3 reasons I mentioned earlier.

    Here in Europe there's another way COVID is 'causing' more deaths albeit indirectly: a lot of operations and treatments for other diseases are being postponed now because the hospitals are running out of capacity, leading to other diseases becoming more lethal.
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  2. #62
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    Originally Posted by Mrpb View Post
    I don't know man, NYT may be biased but those arguments they make seem reasonable. They actually say "Experts say it is unrealistic to expect an exact tally for any disease. "

    And if the hospitals do inflate the number, it might actually come closer to the real death toll for the 3 reasons I mentioned earlier.

    Here in Europe there's another way COVID is 'causing' more deaths albeit indirectly: a lot of operations and treatments for other diseases are being postponed now because the hospitals are running out of capacity, leading to other diseases becoming more lethal.
    What will be really interesting to see for those of us with no vested interest in this, is to wait until the final numbers come in and look at the statistics objectively. Remember, there are lies, damned lies, and statistics. Its the people that freak out and say things like OMG 200,000 more unexpected deaths this year from coronavirus. But when you look at trends over the last 70 years we are on track to be pretty much the same as the last few year over year trending numbers, and still better than the 80s and early 90s lol...Shrug
    https://www.macrotrends.net/countrie...tes/death-rate
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  3. #63
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    Well death rates or excess deaths are interesting to look at for sure but they don't tell the whole story. For example if someone with serious other health problems dies two weeks earlier because of COVID it would not lead to an increase in excess deaths but it would be a legitimate COVID death, imo.
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  4. #64
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    Originally Posted by Mrpb View Post
    Well death rates or excess deaths are interesting to look at for sure but they don't tell the whole story. For example if someone with serious other health problems dies two weeks earlier because of COVID it would not lead to an increase in excess deaths but it would be a legitimate COVID death, imo.
    I think you are missing my point. Lets say in 2017 that 2,700,000 people died and in 2018 that 2,800,000 people died in the US. And in 2019 that 2,900,000 people died. And people are saying that covid is killing hundreds of thousands of people in the US. But the total for 2020 is 3,000,000 deaths total in the US. Its been trending upwards increasing 100,000 deaths per year anyways and we would have expected this number whether or not covid wAs on the scene.
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  5. #65
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    Originally Posted by desslok View Post
    I think you are missing my point. Lets say in 2017 that 2,700,000 people died and in 2018 that 2,800,000 people died in the US. And in 2019 that 2,900,000 people died. And people are saying that covid is killing hundreds of thousands of people in the US. But the total for 2020 is 3,000,000 deaths total in the US. Its been trending upwards increasing 100,000 deaths per year anyways and we would have expected this number whether or not covid wAs on the scene.
    I did get that point. I'm saying that if the numbers play out this way it doesn't necessarily mean the COVID death toll was inflated.
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  6. #66
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    This doesn't look good though.



    https://ourworldindata.org/excess-mortality-covid
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