Dropping into survival mode really sucks - help?

[DynamicHaste]

Hi guys

So I thought I was a weight loss king losing 24 pounds in 2 months on a 1200 cal diet. Big warning to anyone out there; the weight loss is only short term and your metabolism literally takes a nose dive and becomes a snail. Once it sets in you start feeling extremely sick. This resulted in me losing only half a pound in 12 days! I am 253 pounds, 6 foot 3, and 34 years old. My metabolism is now shot as I moved into 'survival mode' where my body is holding onto fat stores. I then upped my calories and wondered if someone could help me improve it?

Breakfast

Wheetabix protein: 330 cal w /skimmed milk (16 g protein)
Low fat yoghurt 100 cal (2 g)
Coffee x 2 60 cal

Snack

5 egg white powder mixed with water 75 cal (20 g)
1 tsp peanut butter 90 cal (4 g)
Protein shake 100 cal (23g)

Lunch

2 hard boiled eggs w/ brown bread 242 cal (16 g)
80 grams oats w/ banana / skimmed milk 416 cal (8 g)

Dinner

2 chicken breasts 330 cal (30 g)
jacket potato, salad, cheese 113 cal (4 g)

Snack

1 tsp peanut butter 90 cal (4 g)
Protein shake 100 cal (23 g)

All together my calories came to: 2046.
Protein: 143.6 G

I was happy with this as it was a big improvement; I noticed my boxing cardio / strength endurance increased dramatically, and my sickness went which was good, although it was difficult to eat that much (my stomach shrank making me full)

I do plan on adding another 400 cal from a smoothie, but wanted your thoughts on what I can do now? My friend told me i'll have to keep exercising every day to stop weight gain from my broken metabolism, and keep increasing calories by 100 until I snap out of survival mode. I think i'll never drop calories again in my life.

Does this seem like a good plan? Thank you so much in advance. Also any improvements i could make to my nutrition? Thank you.

[Dranseth]

Sorry to say, but "survival mode" or "starvation mode" isn't a thing.

[TolerantLactose]

Survival mode....

[AdamWW]

Metabolisms don't 'break'.

Ask any holocaust-survivor... if you eat almost nothing, you'll lose weight indefinitely.

[DynamicHaste]

Metabolisms don't 'break'.

Ask any holocaust-survivor... if you eat almost nothing, you'll lose weight indefinitely.

Basically, if you consume too low calories for too long, your body down regulates how many calories you need, as a survival mechanism. This results in your metabolism slowing down and is one of the reasons why i can't lose anymore weight, despite being on a calorie deficit / exercising, infact im gaining now instead.

[AdamWW]

Basically, if you consume too low calories for too long, your body down regulates how many calories you need, as a survival mechanism. This results in your metabolism slowing down and is one of the reasons why i can't lose anymore weight, despite being on a calorie deficit, infact im gaining now instead, while on a deficit.

I'm im saying: NO

I'm using the example that people starve to death when they don't eat...

So again, no. Your metabolism isn't 'broken'.

It is literally impossible to not lose either fat or muscle weight if you are in a calorie deficit.

[rhadam]

Basically, if you consume too low calories for too long, your body down regulates how many calories you need, as a survival mechanism. This results in your metabolism slowing down and is one of the reasons why i can't lose anymore weight, despite being on a calorie deficit / exercising, infact im gaining now instead.

That's called adaptation. Your metabolism isn't shot or broken. You started your deficit at too extreme a level and now you need to reverse diet. Look up Layne Norton's discussion(s) on reverse dieting for more info.

[DynamicHaste]

I'm im saying: NO

I'm using the example that people starve to death when they don't eat...

So again, no. Your metabolism isn't 'broken'.

It is literally impossible to not lose either fat or muscle weight if you are in a calorie deficit.

Yeah I mean that completely makes sense logically, and has worked for 2 months, just wondered if there might be something wrong with my nutrition? Since im gaining weight on a deficit right now - or am i beating the laws of physics here? lol.

[DynamicHaste]

That's called adaptation. Your metabolism isn't shot or broken. You started your deficit at too extreme a level and now you need to reverse diet. Look up Layne Norton's discussion(s) on reverse dieting for more info.

Thank you!

[AdamWW]

Yeah I mean that completely makes sense logically, and has worked for 2 months, just wondered if there might be something wrong with my nutrition? Since im gaining weight on a deficit right now - or am i beating the laws of physics here? lol.

The more likely scenario is that you lost a LOT of water and stored carbohydrates in the short-term, and due to the extreme low calories you basically made your body highly sensitive to both glycogen and water storage.

So now, when you add calories back in, you're adding:

1. More FOOD in your gut
2. More water EVERYWHERE
3. More stored glycogen (from the carbs).

that isn't fat...

As rhadam said, you need to get back to a more reasonable calorie level and start the process over in a sustainable way.

You're not actually gaining fat if you're in a deficit... that does not happen.

[desslok]

Metabolisms don't 'break'.

Ask any holocaust-survivor... if you eat almost nothing, you'll lose weight indefinitely.

I can vouch for this. Have toured Dachau when I was in Munich. The shrinking plates was a touch of pure evil.

[SuffolkPunch]

If you post the exact time course and weight data, we'll have a look

I'm 99.99% certain what you are seeing is just down to water weight shifts. The initial loss sounds too much to be actual fat, the subsequent lack of results is just the averaging out of that effect. In addition, dietary stress can cause water retention.

Your metabolism is not broken, adaptation only happens in a limited range and your new maintenance level is absolutely not 1200 calories.

[thegymbum]

Metabolisms don't 'break'.

Ask any holocaust-survivor... if you eat almost nothing, you'll lose weight indefinitely.

This. Agreed.

Damage is reparable; a long term low calorie diet will slow your metabolism for the time, but it’s not “broken”. Increasing your calories a little bit but still eating a deficit of calories will lead to weight loss- after a brief rebound from the water weight that you inevitably lost while losing so fast. Be patient when you proceed- you can still lose weight after adding in a few hundred calories to your daily plan... maybe not at the rapid pace you were before, but that’s a good thing if you want to preserve your lean body mass.

One other thing to keep in mind: after losing weight that rapidly (which, as I me toked above, was probably partially water weight....), you might not be well hydrated, which does indeed slow down your metabolism. This is another problem with losing weight too rapidly! Take it slow, make sure you’re staying well hydrated, and with patience, you’ll eventually reach your goal weight.

[Mrpb]

Yeah I mean that completely makes sense logically, and has worked for 2 months, just wondered if there might be something wrong with my nutrition? Since im gaining weight on a deficit right now - or am i beating the laws of physics here? lol.

FYI: You're not in calorie deficit.

There's no way an active 250 pound male is gaining significant weight on 2000 kcal, even if he has a down regulated metabolism.

I'll give you some food for thought: Science consistently shows people can not track their caloric intake accurately. In fact even licensed dieticians can't do it.

You need to using table spoons and cups as measures. Instead weigh everything with a food scale.

How can a jacket potato + salad + cheese be 113 cal?

[DynamicHaste]

This. Agreed.

Damage is reparable; a long term low calorie diet will slow your metabolism for the time, but it’s not “broken”. Increasing your calories a little bit but still eating a deficit of calories will lead to weight loss- after a brief rebound from the water weight that you inevitably lost while losing so fast. Be patient when you proceed- you can still lose weight after adding in a few hundred calories to your daily plan... maybe not at the rapid pace you were before, but that’s a good thing if you want to preserve your lean body mass.

One other thing to keep in mind: after losing weight that rapidly (which, as I me toked above, was probably partially water weight....), you might not be well hydrated, which does indeed slow down your metabolism. This is another problem with losing weight too rapidly! Take it slow, make sure you’re staying well hydrated, and with patience, you’ll eventually reach your goal weight.

Yes I need to be a bit more patient in life and i think this was a good lesson learned. I noticed if you drop too low (1100 -) you do lose weight but it puts you in this aggressive cycle of working out harder/eating less to achieve the same results. I'll be in this for the long haul now but it isn't a bad thing. I'll enjoy weight lifting and getting stronger opposed to feeling sick from restrictive calories.

By time course and weight data, do you mean how much I was losing? I lost 24 pounds in just over a month, and it was usually 4-5 pound a week, which is really bad. Hopefully my body forgives and i can move forward.

My maintenance is: 3345 calories

[DynamicHaste]

FYI: You're not in calorie deficit.

There's no way an active 250 pound male is gaining significant weight on 2000 kcal, even if he has a down regulated metabolism.

I'll give you some food for thought: Science consistently shows people can not track their caloric intake accurately. In fact even licensed dieticians can't do it.

You need to using table spoons and cups as measures. Instead weigh everything with a food scale.

How can a jacket potato + salad + cheese be 113 cal?

It was a medium jacket potato which was 93 calories + a fat free light cheese square (20 cal written on the box) but yeah i see what you mean here.

I usually measure with a weighing scale for nut butters etc

[snailsrus]

In starvation mode, well your metabolism doesn’t slow. When refeeding in cases of extreme starvation with very low body weights your metabolism can actually end up being hyper metabolic and just to gain weight you have to eat a crazy amounts of like 4000 calories a day to stay at a maintained healthy weight which can take months. But your not under weight. There’s no way you aren’t losing weight at 1200 calories a day

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles...018.00199/full

[Mrpb]

It was a medium jacket potato which was 93 calories + a fat free light cheese square (20 cal written on the box) but yeah i see what you mean here.

OK well medium baked potato is listed as 161 kcal. https://nutritiondata.self.com/facts...roducts/2770/2

Don't forget to include all cooking oils and sauces too.

I usually measure with a weighing scale for nut butters etc

Good work. That's the way to do it.

PS. this isn't right: 2 chicken breasts 330 cal (30 g)

If you're eating 2 chicken breasts it would be a lot more than 30g protein. Just half a breast is 130 kcal and 27 gram protein. https://nutritiondata.self.com/facts...products/701/2

[Zschnack87]

Same thing happened to me. I lost 23 pounds in two months easily and since then, it's been slower. I basically just lost a ton of water weight though. Now that I'm down, I'm eating 1500 calories and day and averaging about 1 lb a week. Every once and a while I have a cheat meal or eat to maintenance level calories to keep my body on it's toes. Just keep grinding.

[AdamWW]

Same thing happened to me. I lost 23 pounds in two months easily and since then, it's been slower. I basically just lost a ton of water weight though. Now that I'm down, I'm eating 1500 calories and day and averaging about 1 lb a week. Every once and a while I have a cheat meal or eat to maintenance level calories to keep my body on it's toes. Just keep grinding.

1500 calories for a 1lb/week loss? Jesus...

I don't understand how so many men have such low calorie levels...

Are you totally sedentary?

[rhadam]

In starvation mode, well your metabolism doesn’t slow. When refeeding in cases of extreme starvation with very low body weights your metabolism can actually end up being hyper metabolic and just to gain weight you have to eat a crazy amounts of like 4000 calories a day to stay at a maintained healthy weight which can take months. But your not under weight. There’s no way you aren’t losing weight at 1200 calories a day

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles...018.00199/full

If you're ever interested and have the time, the case studies on holocaust survivors and deaths from re-feeding is quite interesting. Studied that back in the day for my dietetics work, and now in psych once again lol.

[AdamWW]

If you're ever interested and have the time, the case studies on holocaust survivors and deaths from re-feeding is quite interesting. Studied that back in the day for my dietetics work, and now in psych once again lol.

I'd seen a few of those.. it's pretty interesting from a biological perspective

[DynamicHaste]

1500 calories for a 1lb/week loss? Jesus...

I don't understand how so many men have such low calorie levels...

Are you totally sedentary?

I appreciate all the feedback and advice. People here have highlighted a lot of issues with what is going wrong including inaccurate measurements, eating more than i thought i was, and putting a lot of metabolic stress on my body. i really appreciate each and every comment.

How I plan to reverse it:

- Use trusted resources in counting calories.
- Drink more to hydrate
- Up my calories on exercise days
- Decrease my exercise intensity to get my metabolism fully functional again. I will quit with the 1.5 hour cardio sessions every other day/ and focus primarily on weight lifting and low impact aerobics, until everything is back to normal.

I am quite sedentary, yes. I will need to increase my neet.

[AdamWW]

I appreciate all the feedback and advice. People here have highlighted a lot of issues with what is going wrong including inaccurate measurements, eating more than i thought i was, and putting a lot of metabolic stress on my body.

How I plan to reverse it: use trusted resources in counting calories. I plan to up my calories a lot more and decrease my exercise. What has happened is my body has become more resourceful as i've been on a major calorie deficit. So its now holding onto fat and because I exercise 1 and a half hours every other day, its too much exercise, my body doesn't have the food it needs to perform, so it stops me losing weight. You could call it ''saving for a rainy day''

I will also drop my weights down a few KGs and the intensity of my workouts, to trick my metabolism out of being scared.

You're still not really understanding this stuff dude...

You're not 'tricking' anything, and you're not 'saving for a rainy day'.

What happens during times of prolonged energy scarcity is that your body down-regulates ('slows down') non-fat burning processes such as:

1. Regulating body heat
2. Hormone production
3. Muscle anabolism
4. General Movement/NEAT
5. Workout intensity


The BIGGEST ones are 4 & 5.

When dietary energy is scarce for a long time, people simply 'get lazier'... for lack of a better expression.

You fidget less, you walk less, I mean you literally blink your eyes fewer times and take fewer breaths because your body wants to survive.

The calorie in/out concept remains the same tho... you're simply burning less energy with the things you don't see/measure/control and also in the things you DO control/measure...

So it's a cascade of effects working against you, but believe me you won't get to a point where you have to cut on 1200 calories to lose fat.

[rhadam]

I'd seen a few of those.. it's pretty interesting from a biological perspective

Yep. And my GF is a nurse and just got accepted to work in the eating disorder ward at her hospital. It's one of the few in-patient + out-patient facilities in the country of this type, really an amazing program and I was thrilled she was accepted. She's fantastic at her job and started in the substance abuse/detox unit as a travel nurse. This opportunity came up and we both knew she would be a perfect fit. Plus, selfishly, i'm highly interested in those cases from a nutritional and especially psychological perspective. One day she may get tired of me asking about her day at work

[DynamicHaste]

You're still not really understanding this stuff dude...

You're not 'tricking' anything, and you're not 'saving for a rainy day'.

What happens during times of prolonged energy scarcity is that your body down-regulates ('slows down') non-fat burning processes such as:

1. Regulating body heat
2. Hormone production
3. Muscle anabolism
4. General Movement/NEAT
5. Workout intensity


The BIGGEST ones are 4 & 5.

When dietary energy is scarce for a long time, people simply 'get lazier'... for lack of a better expression.

You fidget less, you walk less, I mean you literally blink your eyes fewer times and take fewer breaths because your body wants to survive.

The calorie in/out concept remains the same tho... you're simply burning less energy with the things you don't see/measure/control and also in the things you DO control/measure...

So it's a cascade of effects working against you, but believe me you won't get to a point where you have to cut on 1200 calories to lose fat.

Yeah this makes a lot of sense - i appreciate it a lot.

[AdamWW]

Yep. And my GF is a nurse and just got accepted to work in the eating disorder ward at her hospital. It's one of the few in-patient + out-patient facilities in the country of this type, really an amazing program and I was thrilled she was accepted. She's fantastic at her job and started in the substance abuse/detox unit as a travel nurse. This opportunity came up and we both knew she would be a perfect fit. Plus, selfishly, i'm highly interested in those cases from a nutritional and especially psychological perspective. One day she may get tired of me asking about her day at work

Anecdotally, as someone who is still in the fairly early stages of weight re-gain after long term cycles of anorexia (with weight dropping as low as 125lb at 6-feet tall), I know for me personally when I first started eating properly again, my body reacted in a very surprising way when it comes to caloric needs; I seemed to require almost double what most recommendation would suggest just to gain even the smallest amount.

Even now at my current weight, I seem to require far more maintain/gain weight than most conventional estimations would suggest. Whether it's down to underlying organ, connective tissue, and hormonal repair/compensation I don't know, but as an example my testosterone dropped down to around 100 at my lowest weight... and the last time I checked (after gaining only 15lb) it went up to just over 500, even though I was still underweight.

I think there is far more underlying damage done by prolonged starvation than many people would assume.

[Mrpb]

How I plan to reverse it:

1 Use trusted resources in counting calories.
2 Drink more to hydrate
3 Up my calories on exercise days
4 Decrease my exercise intensity to get my metabolism fully functional again. I will quit with the 1.5 hour cardio sessions every other day/ and focus primarily on weight lifting and low impact aerobics, until everything is back to normal.

1. Is a good idea.
2. If you like to drink water drink water but it's nothing magic. The 8 glasses of water per day is a myth.
3. You can but you don't have to.
4. If you enjoy cardio there's nothing wrong with it, in fact it has health benefits. 1.5 hours every other day is probably too much though. Half an hour every other day would be fine. Focussing on weight lifting is a good idea. Low impact aerobics isn't necessary.

Just try the 2000 kcal for a while. If you weigh everything you eat and use the correct numbers I guarantee you'll lose weight.

Your metabolism is already fully functional. You don't need to fix or reverse anything.

[snailsrus]

If you're ever interested and have the time, the case studies on holocaust survivors and deaths from re-feeding is quite interesting. Studied that back in the day for my dietetics work, and now in psych once again lol.

I have a degree in abnormal psych also after suffering from server alcoholism and going into wasting syndrome from being under weight and lack of nutrients, I learned a lot about the different types of acidosis, refeeding, phosphorus levels and metabolism. At the end of my drink for months I lived off of gin only dropping to 80 lbs at 5’2-5’3ish. I am in recovery for alcoholism now for almost 5 years, but low thiamine caused long term neurological issues :/

[DynamicHaste]

Just as an update and conclusion; I dropped a pound today and due to the advice given I have found success. Thank you very much!