banded pullups

[grey27]

I can do 10 pullups unassisted and with good form. If I do 4 sets to near failure the rep numbers are something like 9, 8, 7, 6. I felt this was adequate rep numbers for volume and have been doing weighted pullups but haven't progressed well on them. I never could feel my back while doing pullups and I started wondering if this was my problem. It got me to thinking that if I used assistance I could focus more on my back. So I gave it a try and used a band and did 15, 13, 12, 10 reps and I felt it in my lats for the first time ever and the next day I was sore for the first time.

So what do you think, stick with the banded pullups?

[Junsuiakai]

Honestly I never do more than 3 to 6 reps for pull ups. Time to start adding weight.

[SuffolkPunch]

I don't think you need to 'feel' a muscle working unless you have a tendency to cheat by using shortened ROM or momentum - but you should know that's happening.

If you do a pullup, you can't avoid using the lat and bicep. 10 reps should be fine to provide the right level of resistance. Maybe focus on smooth tempo and fullest possible ROM, do more sets with more in the tank, eg. 4 sets of 8 instead of 2 sets of 10.

And bands don't help much because they only assist at full stretch - the bottom of the movement is the easiest part

[TolerantLactose]

Another the problem with bands is that it changes the resistance curve of the movement. If you're using them to accommodate a movement, you're eventually going to have to progress away from them, leaving you where you started.

[Garage Rat]

You could add them in for a change for bodybuilding purposes.
Certainly a different stimulus especially since you got sore doing them.
As mentioned the strength curve if different(easier at the bottom harder at the top).
If your doing pull ups to get strong at pull ups or for building the back and lats they are two different goal that may over lap somewhat.
So feeling the back working is usually associated with bodybuilding.
If thats the case i would add them in and play around with grip width and tempo(speed).

[Junsuiakai]

Does anybody actually do pull ups higher than 8 weighted? I've tried to progress that way but form always breaks down eventually and it is one of the more painful exercises to push through.

[grey27]

You could add them in for a change for bodybuilding purposes.
Certainly a different stimulus especially since you got sore doing them.
As mentioned the strength curve if different(easier at the bottom harder at the top).
If your doing pull ups to get strong at pull ups or for building the back and lats they are two different goal that may over lap somewhat.
So feeling the back working is usually associated with bodybuilding.
If thats the case i would add them in and play around with grip width and tempo(speed).

My training is focused on aesthetics from now on so I am trying to develop the upper lats.

[SuffolkPunch]

Does anybody actually do pull ups higher than 8 weighted? I've tried to progress that way but form always breaks down eventually and it is one of the more painful exercises to push through.

Yes, I have done. Never found it painful though, I either get the rep or fail just below the top. Perhaps you have an issue...

[Casca]

I see most people at my gym don't pull up high enough and are mainly working their arms. Pulling up to where your arms are at a 90 degree angle, many people can look up and stretch their neck to get chin to almost or at bar level and count that as a rep. With bands, you probably pulled up a little higher and finally felt it in your lats. If you look up to get chin above/at bar level, stop it. Look straight forward and pull up till whole head is above bar or better yet, do chest to bar pull ups. You start using your back way more when the elbows come down. Look in the mirror or video record yourself doing pull ups to see if you are just pulling up to arms 90 degrees and the elbows barely go down.

[Junsuiakai]

Yes, I have done. Never found it painful though, I either get the rep or fail just below the top. Perhaps you have an issue...

Perhaps painful wasnt the right word.

I mean it becomes a mental battle for getting close to fail. For some reason heavier high rep sets for pull ups just slay me mentally.

[grey27]

I see most people at my gym don't pull up high enough and are mainly working their arms. Pulling up to where your arms are at a 90 degree angle, many people can look up and stretch their neck to get chin to almost or at bar level and count that as a rep. With bands, you probably pulled up a little higher and finally felt it in your lats. If you look up to get chin above/at bar level, stop it. Look straight forward and pull up till whole head is above bar or better yet, do chest to bar pull ups. You start using your back way more when the elbows come down. Look in the mirror or video record yourself doing pull ups to see if you are just pulling up to arms 90 degrees and the elbows barely go down.

Ah, so the bottom works more bicep and the top more lat? I may shorten the band some and work the top ROM then.

[SuffolkPunch]

Ah, so the bottom works more bicep and the top more lat? I may shorten the band some and work the top ROM then.

I've never found a use for partials in pullups. My view is either use an assistance machine, a lat pulldown or just keep going with pullups - like I said do lower rep sets not-to-failure.

[Casca]

Ah, so the bottom works more bicep and the top more lat? I may shorten the band some and work the top ROM then.

Yes, the top range of motions is pretty much all lats/back. Unless you are doing a pull up contest, the top range of motion is not just barely getting your chin to bar level and counting that as a rep. You pull up as high as you can every single rep, strive to do chest to bar pull ups. You will feel that in your lats/back, you will grow wings. And I agree with Suffolk, don't do partial reps. Sure, they are easier to do and give you a pump. But you only get stronger in that limited range of motion. Better to always do full range and be strong with the whole range of motion, especially if you want aesthetics. Aesthetics is about being balanced out, capable looking. Not overly developed in some areas.

[Pterodactyl314]

How about both? A couple sets standard then a couple banded

[GrouchyUSMC]

Using bands for pull-ups isn't recommended by many of the people who are very good at pull-ups. If you are stuck at a plateau you can either add weight or increase frequency. If you want to increase frequency, check out the Recon Ron program.

[Casca]

Using bands for pull-ups isn't recommended by many of the people who are very good at pull-ups. If you are stuck at a plateau you can either add weight or increase frequency. If you want to increase frequency, check out the Recon Ron program.

Using bands would be recommended over using "pull up assist machines", but you have to start somewhere and I agree once you can, just actually keep trying to do actual pull ups. Even if it's crap, try to make em perfect.

Using bands still has a good bit of core involvement that a "pull up assist " machine completely negates. "Pull up assist" is zero difference from lat pull down, neither one involves the core. You need core strength for pull ups, besides lats/back.

[SuffolkPunch]

I prefer machines to bands since they can offer a linear assistance. Bands tend to offer the least assistance where you need it the most. The top end of the movement (lats and biceps) is the limiting factor. Core strength will never limit how good you are at pullups.

[GeneralSerpant]

Perhaps painful wasnt the right word.

I mean it becomes a mental battle for getting close to fail. For some reason heavier high rep sets for pull ups just slay me mentally.

What kind of pullups are we talking about here?

[WeightedDip]

I can do 10 pullups unassisted and with good form. If I do 4 sets to near failure the rep numbers are something like 9, 8, 7, 6. I felt this was adequate rep numbers for volume and have been doing weighted pullups but haven't progressed well on them. I never could feel my back while doing pullups and I started wondering if this was my problem. It got me to thinking that if I used assistance I could focus more on my back. So I gave it a try and used a band and did 15, 13, 12, 10 reps and I felt it in my lats for the first time ever and the next day I was sore for the first time.

So what do you think, stick with the banded pullups?

I've been weighted pull up's 3x a week for three years straight, without missing a week, other than my deload weeks. (Ignore my avatar, that was from 1 year in, and I can't figure out how to change it.)

Long story short, most of that 3 years, I did 1 to 5 rep sets only. I usually do one day, 7 sets of 3, one day 7 sets of 5, one day 7 sets of 1 cluster sets. Today, I can do 3 reps with 135 lbs strapped, plus my 200 lbs of body weight. I went from a skinny 135 lbs to 200 lbs in that 3 years, my back being my biggest body part. I built up to a 500 lb dead lift in just the past few weeks. My back has grown massive.

Needless to day, I don't ever feel my back muscles unless I do some Isolation Movements at the end. Sometimes, I'll add Lat Pulls for light weight and really contract my upper back muscles to where I feel them, and for high rep to get the blood and nutrients flowing. But for the most part, I can chime in and say you don't need to feel your muscles. Lift more weight, and you'll grow. Don't make it complicated. Most people I see in the gym never growing is because they aren't increasing weight weekly and they aren't lifting heavy enough weight to stimulate growth.

With that said, Weighted Pull Up's, Over Hand Barbell Rows, Underhand Barbell Rows, and Deadlifts. Add 5 lbs per week and your back will grow. At the end of your exercises, if you have extra time, throw in Face Pulls, Shrugz, and some trap work, but don't prioritize it over the heavy weight movements.

[Junsuiakai]

What kind of pullups are we talking about here?

Weighted. Pull ups. But I switch to chins often as I can do way more weight with chins..

Important to mention always do paused.

[GeneralSerpant]

Yes, the top range of motions is pretty much all lats/back. Unless you are doing a pull up contest, the top range of motion is not just barely getting your chin to bar level and counting that as a rep. You pull up as high as you can every single rep, strive to do chest to bar pull ups. You will feel that in your lats/back, you will grow wings. And I agree with Suffolk, don't do partial reps. Sure, they are easier to do and give you a pump. But you only get stronger in that limited range of motion. Better to always do full range and be strong with the whole range of motion, especially if you want aesthetics. Aesthetics is about being balanced out, capable looking. Not overly developed in some areas.

It's more about how you incorporate the traps. If you don't put your shoulders behind your head and activate your traps then your body will just try to do a seated cable row instead. People arch their back and neck back to straighten out their legs but yes it ends up in a different range that just pulls in a different orientation and the arms can only go to parallel.

[Casca]

It's more about how you incorporate the traps. If you don't put your shoulders behind your head and activate your traps then your body will just try to do a seated cable row instead. People arch their back and neck back to straighten out their legs but yes it ends up in a different range that just pulls in a different orientation and the arms can only go to parallel.

I think you're talking about scapula retraction. People usually do scapula depression automatically for pull ups, it's just natural. You use scapula retraction/protraction (mostly retraction) to keep shoulders neutral for pull ups. Guys swinging forward as they pull up are not using scapula retraction, eventually they will learn how to stop swinging forward. Not knowing how to keep shoulders neutral on pull ups is not too bad, but I cringe every time I see guys swinging around on their shoulders doing dips.

For a head above bar pull up, I just retract enough to stay neutral. Chest to bar is a little more retraction. High pull ups....trying to pull up to my waist, but just at below rib cage, above belly button for now.....you have to retract hard, yes it does transition from a vertical pull to a mostly horizontal pull.

I'm also working on front levers. Impinged my left shoulder because of it. Very strong at pull ups and went at front levers too fast and my retraction wasn't strong enough. Right now for front lever, all I am doing is working on my retraction strength. Row machines, I just start at low weight and purposely retract my scapula on every rep. Eventually I get to weights too heavy to purposely retract (still holding tension for retraction though) Also I use row machines, keep arms straight and just retract.....it's kinda like doing shoulder shrugs, except it's horizontal. Also do active arching hangs.

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