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  1. #31
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    From one of the better sources out there:
    Is Creatine Safe for your Kidneys?
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  2. #32
    Humble Megalomaniac ElrondHubbard's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ectoBgone View Post
    From one of the better sources out there:
    Is Creatine Safe for your Kidneys?
    Seems like a good article, although its mention of taking 10 grams per day of creatine is way higher than anything I've ever read. I've been doing 5g daily for about two years, and my last blood test showed a creatinine level of 1.1, well within the normal range.

    Not sure that I'd benefit from taking more, and other sources have implied that anything beyond that is probably excreted without being stored anyway. Once you reach saturation, you aren't going to absorb more than you've got.
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  3. #33
    In search of V-Taper ectoBgone's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ElrondHubbard View Post
    Seems like a good article, although its mention of taking 10 grams per day of creatine is way higher than anything I've ever read. I've been doing 5g daily for about two years, and my last blood test showed a creatinine level of 1.1, well within the normal range.

    Not sure that I'd benefit from taking more, and other sources have implied that anything beyond that is probably excreted without being stored anyway. Once you reach saturation, you aren't going to absorb more than you've got.
    I believe that dose is only given as a possible remedy for non-responders and those with a lot of muscle mass. The general advice is 3-5g for most people. The linked article is more about what levels are safe, not what is recommended.
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  4. #34
    Humble Megalomaniac ElrondHubbard's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ectoBgone View Post
    I believe that dose is only given as a possible remedy for non-responders and those with a lot of muscle mass. The general advice is 3-5g for most people. The linked article is more about what levels are safe, not what is recommended.
    That's true enough. The kidney hysteria is a bit over the top by this point.
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  5. #35
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    Examine.com... excellent site... worth bookmarking.
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  6. #36
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    Originally Posted by ElrondHubbard View Post
    That link took me to a page with muultiple articles about creatine, and I read through several of them as well as the one you referenced. Interestingly, some of those other articles contradicted the claim about dose timing.

    What stood out to me was that the study here consisted of only 19 individuals, so each group could not have consisted of more than 10 people. That's WAY too small a sample to form any general conclusions. And when you think about it, making any timing claims at all just doesn't make sense considering how creatine supposedly works in the body and how it's stored. The whole concept behind creatine loading is to push the amount of stored creatine into cellular tissues, because it accumulates and dissipates slowly. The idea of daily creatine doses is to maintain a saturation level of creatine, not to give it short term spikes. And even if it did, post-workout wouldn't make any sense, because creatine reservoirs have to be present at the time of exercise in order to provide the ATP replenishment that creatine is used for in the cell. Creatine is a long-term resident in the cell, not a quickly depleted fuel.

    With that in mind, it's hard to conceive of how pre- or post-workout dosing of creatine would make any difference to performance whatsoever. If there are multiple studies with decent sample sizes that show this, and if someone can come up with a mechanism that would explain why it should work in this way, then I could take it more seriously. Until then, I have to think of these particular results as spurious, and not meaningful.


    According to this article from Eric Trexler, "Countless studies have shown creatine to be efficacious with a wide range of supplement timing approaches. There are very few studies (three, to be precise) directly comparing the effects of pre-exercise creatine supplementation to post-exercise supplementation. The results of these three studies were combined in a small meta-analysis. The results suggested that post-exercise supplementation may lead to slightly greater increases in fat-free mass, with no significant difference observed for effects on strength. The body of literature on this topic is extremely small, so I am hesitant to make firm conclusions, and we have plenty of evidence showing creatine supplementation to be efficacious with a variety of timing strategies. "

    So if there is an effect, it is small and unexplained, but its still not even clear it's real. I would argue that the best time to take creatine is whenever it's most convenient. If this is post-workout, fine. If it's some other time, also fine.
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  7. #37
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    Originally Posted by ElrondHubbard View Post
    Seems like a good article, although its mention of taking 10 grams per day of creatine is way higher than anything I've ever read. I've been doing 5g daily for about two years, and my last blood test showed a creatinine level of 1.1, well within the normal range.

    Not sure that I'd benefit from taking more, and other sources have implied that anything beyond that is probably excreted without being stored anyway. Once you reach saturation, you aren't going to absorb more than you've got.
    After reading through this thread, I have to agree with everything Elrond has posted on creatine, my experience with creatine follows his experience. I am 71 yoa and after 8 years achieving a well developed condition at 32 yoa, but with injuries and life in the way, I stopped gym activities. After starting light with machines 6 months ago, I got serious with weights and taking creatine, whey protein and additional supplements. My progress surprised me and feel creatine gives me a boost that I never experienced. I buy from Walmart and started with the flavored product with BCAA's included. I tried the small container of just unflavored Creatine and found it provides all I need. I take the recommended amount every morning in a cup of coffee and my muscles always feel pumped. It does not seem to speed my recovery time, so I avoid a workout if not recovered. At 71 yoa that is likely to be expected, but in the past my recovery time always lagged, but I work to failure. Finding a workout routine, diet and recovery time for best progress is always the challenge and we all have slightly different needs, but creatine is a helpful aid, once the muscles are saturated. Saturation takes time, those who found no help likely did not achieve muscle saturation.
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  8. #38
    Registered User adamgentile's Avatar
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    If you had to pick one supplement it should be amino acids over creatine, especially for the older crew. I was on live feed with Milos Sarcev, who is a genius when it comes to training and nutrition, he said the only supplement everyone should be taking is amino acids.
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  9. #39
    Humble Megalomaniac ElrondHubbard's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by adamgentile View Post
    If you had to pick one supplement it should be amino acids over creatine, especially for the older crew. I was on live feed with Milos Sarcev, who is a genius when it comes to training and nutrition, he said the only supplement everyone should be taking is amino acids.
    Another name for amino acids is protein. They're the same thing. Protein is food. Not supplements. I don't think it's controversial that we should all, including older folks, be consuming abundant high quality protein. But splitting them up into amino acids and taking them separately doesn't make sense except to tack on extra costs.

    That's totally unrelated to creatine supplementation.
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  10. #40
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    I googled 'Milos Sarcev'. He's a bodybuilder and a juicer.
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    Originally Posted by adamgentile View Post
    If you had to pick one supplement it should be amino acids over creatine, especially for the older crew.
    Nope. Taking aminos will typically be less effective than taking a quality protein source with adequate leucine. If I wanted to supplement I would use a whey > aminos 100% of the time.


    Originally Posted by ectoBgone View Post
    I believe that dose is only given as a possible remedy for non-responders and those with a lot of muscle mass.
    The term 'non-responder' is clinical. There are folks who reportedly respond less to creatine; perhaps they had better stores prior to supplementation? But humans produce and use creatine and 'non-responders' really just respond less. Folks with more muscle mass tend to respond more to creatine supplementation. I already cited my sources ITT.


    Originally Posted by ElrondHubbard View Post
    Seems like a good article, although its mention of taking 10 grams per day of creatine
    Only could be positive short term during initial supplementation. Long term 3-5mg a day should be adequate as saturated is saturated and more isn't better it's waste. I take 3g daily myself and if I miss a dose I'm not panicked.
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  12. #42
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    I never miss my dose anymore since I started dissolving chewable multis, chewable vit c with zinc, vit D, magnesium, milk thistle, carnitine and glutamine with my creatine in 24 oz of water. I take a sip or two at the beginning of a workout and a sip or two after each set. If there's any left, I down it at the end before I eat.
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    Originally Posted by ElrondHubbard View Post
    That's true enough. The kidney hysteria is a bit over the top by this point.
    I agree, but I do suggest cycling off for blood tests just so it doesn't lead to a false positive or hide an underlying condition. I plan to bring it back once my blood tests become less frequent in nature.
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    Originally Posted by supramax View Post
    I googled 'Milos Sarcev'. He's a bodybuilder and a juicer.
    You shouldn't have to google Milos if you are into working out. He is one of the legends.
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    Originally Posted by adamgentile View Post
    You shouldn't have to google Milos if you are into working out. He is one of the legends.
    I exercise every day and lift weights 5-6 days a week, so I guess I'm 'into' working out.
    I'm not interested in professional bodybuilders, though. I don't like the juiced look and I certainly wouldn't take supplement advice from people that take the stuff we're not allowed to talk about on the forum. I'm into strength training and to a lessor extent, Olympic weightlifting.
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    I take 3-5g daily. I must admit I must be one of the few people who doesn't feel it does anything. I don't even gain or lose water weight now when I start or stop taking it.
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