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  1. #1
    bad_Liberal_Man Reflexez's Avatar
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    Why are Conservatives conflating white supremacists and Proud Boys?

    I don't really understand why almost every Conservative argument is related to "Proud Boys aren't white supremacists", which this totally misses why most people are outraged at Trump (I'm sure some Liberals will also lump Proud Boys in with white supremacy as well).

    Trump was asked to denounced white supremacists and right wing militia. This was based on his criticism towards Biden for not denouncing ANTIFIA or BLM.

    Trump said "sure". Trump then asked for who and a name to which Biden prompted "Proud Boys" without any reference to whether this was for white supremacy or militia. At the same time Wallace was trying to say "White supremacists and right wing militia" as Trump started to give his answer.

    Proud Boys members have been photographed acting as armed militia on multiple occasions so it seems fair enough to call them out on this, I'm not sure it's as good a group as some others such as the KKK but it's reasonable to do so. (Reference: https://i.ibb.co/HxRwYf1/VANCOUVER-W...ring-a-mem.jpg)

    From there, Trump gives a fairly weak condemnation (which by their own admission the Proud Boys took as the exact opposite) before pivoting back to attacking ANTIFA.

    This seems to be the crux of the confusion. When the left are complaining that he did nothing to denounce "white supremacy" it's coming from a position of he literally never mentioned it at all and glossed over the topic, while when the right are replying they are doing so from a position of "Biden said Proud Boys are white supremacists, wtf they're clearly not this is more liberal lunacy". Then you've got Trump who I legitimately think had no idea what was going on (backed up by his claims he doesn't know them today if true) and assumed his quick "step back" was a catch all as condemnation, when in reality it fell far short of the mark for trying to unite people.
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  2. #2
    Registered Abuser John L's Avatar
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    It was a completely ridiculous question from Wallace, but of course Trump had to fall for the bait hook, line and sinker. All he needed to say was that he's denounced white supremacist groups multiple times in the past, that in fact he just designated the KKK as a terrorist organization last week, and that it's absurd that they keep asking him this question constantly.
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    Registered User jeffl1980's Avatar
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    What's wrong with armed militias if they're not breaking any laws. Are you anti 2a?
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    Originally Posted by Reflexez View Post
    Trump was asked to denounced white supremacists and right wing militia. This was based on his criticism towards Biden for not denouncing ANTIFIA or BLM.
    He already......fuking......has.

    And when asked last night he said "sure".
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  5. #5
    True Patriot Crew ~Hades~'s Avatar
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    op somehow forgets that libs everywhere think proud boys are white supremacists so he can gotcha the conservatives


    same as usual
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    Methodological Naturalism tk217's Avatar
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    But I believe armed militias are good.
      
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    Registered User sandaltan's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by jeffl1980 View Post
    What's wrong with armed militias if they're not breaking any laws. Are you anti 2a?
    im anti your-retarded-interpretation-of-2a

    lets be real youre in love with guns and america

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  8. #8
    Registered User fitnessislife's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by sandaltan View Post
    im anti your-retarded-interpretation-of-2a

    lets be real youre in love with guns and america

    in love

    with america
    Loving America is wrong? The greatest bastion of freedom, opportunity and free enterprise in world history? That's wrong?

    I realize that uneducated losers such as yourself would rather we turn into a 3rd world chithole, so the better question is - why don't you just move there, instead of trying to force the rest of us to adapt to their misery?
    "At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child - miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied,
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  9. #9
    Banned wincel's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by fitnessislife View Post
    Loving America is wrong? The greatest bastion of freedom, opportunity and free enterprise in world history? That's wrong?

    I realize that uneducated losers such as yourself would rather we turn into a 3rd world chithole, so the better question is - why don't you just move there, instead of trying to force the rest of us to adapt to their misery?
    location: michigan

    lmao if u wanted to avoid becoming a third world chithole, i have some bad newz
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  10. #10
    **** your straps yabbayabba's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by sandaltan View Post
    im anti your-retarded-interpretation-of-2a

    lets be real youre in love with guns and america

    in love

    with america
    LOL at this commie.
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  11. #11
    bad_Liberal_Man Reflexez's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by John L View Post
    It was a completely ridiculous question from Wallace, but of course Trump had to fall for the bait hook, line and sinker. All he needed to say was that he's denounced white supremacist groups multiple times in the past, that in fact he just designated the KKK as a terrorist organization last week, and that it's absurd that they keep asking him this question constantly.
    I personally think the question was alright given the topic being discussed and that many Americans clearly think Trump isn't doing enough (regardless of whether he is or isn't). To me it's a massive own goal by Trump as he's done it in the past and he's discussed the KKK being a terrorist group, all he had to do was reaffirm this position but instead we got some gibberish and deflection. The question was so soft that if he'd answered it then I'm sure a lot of people on the left would have been crying that Wallace wasn't tough enough.

    Originally Posted by jeffl1980 View Post
    What's wrong with armed militias if they're not breaking any laws. Are you anti 2a?
    What I think of a bunch of untrained guys trying to take the place of trained specialists is irrelevant.

    Do you think Trump is anti-2a as he's quite clearly now came out and told them to let the police do their jobs?

    Originally Posted by ~Hades~ View Post
    op somehow forgets that libs everywhere think proud boys are white supremacists so he can gotcha the conservatives

    same as usual
    I mean I literally wrote in the first sentence: (I'm sure some Liberals will also lump Proud Boys in with white supremacy as well)

    Not everything has to be a "gotcha", if you disagree with what I said then fine but at least do it based on what I actually said.
    It's okay to be wrong.

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  12. #12
    True Patriot Crew ~Hades~'s Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Reflexez View Post
    I personally think the question was alright given the topic being discussed and that many Americans clearly think Trump isn't doing enough (regardless of whether he is or isn't). To me it's a massive own goal by Trump as he's done it in the past and he's discussed the KKK being a terrorist group, all he had to do was reaffirm this position but instead we got some gibberish and deflection. The question was so soft that if he'd answered it then I'm sure a lot of people on the left would have been crying that Wallace wasn't tough enough.



    What I think of a bunch of untrained guys trying to take the place of trained specialists is irrelevant.

    Do you think Trump is anti-2a as he's quite clearly now came out and told them to let the police do their jobs?



    I mean I literally wrote in the first sentence: (I'm sure some Liberals will also lump Proud Boys in with white supremacy as well)

    Not everything has to be a "gotcha", if you disagree with what I said then fine but at least do it based on what I actually said.

    “Almost every conservative vs I’m sure some libs”

    Intellectual dishonesty at its finest. You know there are tons of libs screaming about them being white supremacists but it doesn’t fit your gotcha narrative. You knew that when you posted it


    Just look at the title. The entire premise of this thread is a gotcha. Such a fuking hypocrite.
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  13. #13
    Registered User iifymbro's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by sandaltan View Post

    lets be real youre in love with guns and america

    in love

    with america

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  14. #14
    bad_Liberal_Man Reflexez's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ~Hades~ View Post
    “Almost every conservative vs I’m sure some libs”

    Intellectual dishonesty at its finest. You know there are tons of libs screaming about them being white supremacists but it doesn’t fit your gotcha narrative. You knew that when you posted it

    Just look at the title. The entire premise of this thread is a gotcha. Such a fuking hypocrite.
    Should have referenced that I was talking about Conservative talking points on Misc, what can I say use of English language isn't my strongest area.

    I don't consider presenting an alternative view to be a "gotcha", the whole zero sum concept of political discussion is pointless. Yes I'd hope there's a chance comments I make might "win" by making people consider an alternative opinion, no I don't care about "beating conservatives" as a goal and of course people are free to decide for themselves how they view what I say.
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    One group has caused $2B In property damage, ruined families and their businesses, and actually killed people (including police)



    Was this the proud boys?
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    SillieBazzillie Alt #z4 z4v4's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by John L View Post
    It was a completely ridiculous question from Wallace, but of course Trump had to fall for the bait hook, line and sinker. All he needed to say was that he's denounced white supremacist groups multiple times in the past, that in fact he just designated the KKK as a terrorist organization last week, and that it's absurd that they keep asking him this question constantly.
    The fact that he couldn't denounce it easily, is exactly why it's not a ridiculous question.
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    bad_Liberal_Man Reflexez's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by DeshaunWatson View Post
    One group has caused $2B In property damage, ruined families and their businesses, and actually killed people (including police)

    Was this the proud boys?
    I fully agree with the condemnation of opportunists who used public outrage to loot, destroy and attack people.

    What I would point out however is that your post seems to only use visual observations to draw a conclusion, there are streets on fire, this side did it so they're the bad guys. The reality however is much more complex and while "right wing" individuals or groups might not be openly causing chaos like people under the banner of ANTIFA/BLM they pose an extremely large threat to Americans.

    If you look at the statistics of terrorist plots which were either carried out or foiled, there is a massive growing trend towards them being orchestrated by people with extreme right wing views:



    When looking at this date range the vast majority of deaths were caused in the 9/11 attacks, however outside of that:

    Right-wing terrorist attacks caused 335 deaths, left-wing attacks caused 22 deaths, and ethnonationalist terrorists caused 5 deaths.
    In short, there is a reason that these groups need to be called out and not energised with statements such as "stand ready" because they take that as a call to arms when they believe the time is right. Yes ANTIFA/BLM need to end their violent actions, but for Trump supporters to ignore the intentions of others based on the fact they vote the same way is a dangerous game.
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    Originally Posted by sandaltan View Post
    im anti your-retarded-interpretation-of-2a

    lets be real youre in love with guns and america

    in love

    with america
    You are correct.

    Nothing sexier than:

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  19. #19
    Throbbing Member jamalfudge's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Reflexez View Post
    I don't really understand why almost every Conservative argument is related to "Proud Boys aren't white supremacists", which this totally misses why most people are outraged at Trump (I'm sure some Liberals will also lump Proud Boys in with white supremacy as well).

    Trump was asked to denounced white supremacists and right wing militia. This was based on his criticism towards Biden for not denouncing ANTIFIA or BLM.

    Trump said "sure". Trump then asked for who and a name to which Biden prompted "Proud Boys" without any reference to whether this was for white supremacy or militia. At the same time Wallace was trying to say "White supremacists and right wing militia" as Trump started to give his answer.

    Proud Boys members have been photographed acting as armed militia on multiple occasions so it seems fair enough to call them out on this, I'm not sure it's as good a group as some others such as the KKK but it's reasonable to do so. (Reference: https://i.ibb.co/HxRwYf1/VANCOUVER-W...ring-a-mem.jpg)

    From there, Trump gives a fairly weak condemnation (which by their own admission the Proud Boys took as the exact opposite) before pivoting back to attacking ANTIFA.

    This seems to be the crux of the confusion. When the left are complaining that he did nothing to denounce "white supremacy" it's coming from a position of he literally never mentioned it at all and glossed over the topic, while when the right are replying they are doing so from a position of "Biden said Proud Boys are white supremacists, wtf they're clearly not this is more liberal lunacy". Then you've got Trump who I legitimately think had no idea what was going on (backed up by his claims he doesn't know them today if true) and assumed his quick "step back" was a catch all as condemnation, when in reality it fell far short of the mark for trying to unite people.
    There aren't nearly as many "white supremacists" out there that the media is hyping. Probably less than ever existed before. Besides, Dems are the traditional party of major white supremacist groups and they are doubling down 100-fold on their projection. And the lo-IQ p3d0 supporters lap it up.
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    Jacques Rhott Bushmaster's Avatar
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    I think this is actually the bigger question...

    Originally Posted by Bushmaster View Post
    Sure Benny.. you didn't really answer the question though little buddy.. Here, one more time.

    Why are so many pants shat over these eeeevil white supremacists when they're not the ones killing all the black people. Can you explain?
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  21. #21
    ayyy lmao Gainzzz's Avatar
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    JFL @ the question to begin with.

    BLM and the Marxist arm of their organization, along with Antifa, have been burning down entire cities for MONTHS. Absolutely nothing on this during the debate or from the media though.

    "I.. it's just an idea"

    There are white supremacist groups in America but they couldn't be more irrelevant and they have absolutely no power or influence over ANYTHING. Asking Trump to "disavow" them during a debate (which he has done multiple times before) is completely insane.

    People are defending Proud Boys from the accusation of being white supremacists because it's not true. It's very disingenuous to say "some liberals" are lumping them in with other white supremacist groups. Try the majority of the mainstream media and every retard blue checkmark on twitter.

    OP, didn't you make a whole thread because you wanted everyone to know that you had left the misc to "further educate" yourself or something or another?

    What changed?
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    Platinum User chaunce54's Avatar
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    So which white supremacist groups are burning down cities and violently rioting?

    Antifa?

    I'm pretty sure Trump has already denounced them...
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    Registered User EarlA's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by sandaltan View Post
    im anti your-retarded-interpretation-of-2a

    lets be real youre in love with guns and america

    in love

    with america
    What’s wrong with loving your country? You said some dumb chit like this yesterday too.
    Ack...Ack
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  24. #24
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    Originally Posted by Gainzzz View Post
    JFL @ the question to begin with.

    BLM and the Marxist arm of their organization, along with Antifa, have been burning down entire cities for MONTHS. Absolutely nothing on this during the debate or from the media though.

    "I.. it's just an idea"

    There are white supremacist groups in America but they couldn't be more irrelevant and they have absolutely no power or influence over ANYTHING. Asking Trump to "disavow" them during a debate (which he has done multiple times before) is completely insane.

    People are defending Proud Boys from the accusation of being white supremacists because it's not true. It's very disingenuous to say "some liberals" are lumping them in with other white supremacist groups. Try the majority of the mainstream media and every retard blue checkmark on twitter.

    OP, didn't you make a whole thread because you wanted everyone to know that you had left the misc to "further educate" yourself or something or another?

    What changed?
    LMAO he's over in another thread Queefing about how libs "don't take part in manufactured outrage threads!" I'm fuking dying over here lol.

    Originally Posted by Reflexez View Post
    I asked for someone to point out where he explicitly advocated people being put up against a wall and shot, something I went out of my way to condemn, just to get a diatribe of leftist hate as the response to avoid the question.

    This is the reason "window licking liberals" don't engage in manufactured outrage threads. You've not only made a thread based on something which I'm still not even sure was said, but you're commenting on "my kind" being "deleted" which sounds remarkably like the same thing you felt the need to create a thread to complain about.
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    Worry about the IRA.
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    bad_Liberal_Man Reflexez's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Gainzzz View Post
    JFL @ the question to begin with.

    BLM and the Marxist arm of their organization, along with Antifa, have been burning down entire cities for MONTHS. Absolutely nothing on this during the debate or from the media though.

    "I.. it's just an idea"

    There are white supremacist groups in America but they couldn't be more irrelevant and they have absolutely no power or influence over ANYTHING. Asking Trump to "disavow" them during a debate (which he has done multiple times before) is completely insane.

    People are defending Proud Boys from the accusation of being white supremacists because it's not true. It's very disingenuous to say "some liberals" are lumping them in with other white supremacist groups. Try the majority of the mainstream media and every retard blue checkmark on twitter.

    OP, didn't you make a whole thread because you wanted everyone to know that you had left the misc to "further educate" yourself or something or another?

    What changed?
    Depends on what you consider nothing in the media, because I've seen a lot of news which shows violence and burning of American cities and clearly discusses the role of sections of BLM/ANTIFA protests who have taken part in disorder. The reality is that protests have a range of people attend them, if you went to one are you personally responsible for and do your views perfectly align with someone carrying a Nazi flag that's also there? Clearly you're not and they don't, just like someone who goes to a BLM rally isn't directly responsible for someone who is there to grab a new TV and some shoes.

    I disagree with your views on "white supremacist" groups in the sense that I would link their ideologies into those held by far right extremists. It's factual that this group represents the largest growing terrorism threat in the USA, it's not liberal lunacy but based in statistics. Saying they have no power comes across as burying your head in the sand, imagine the outrage if we replaced "far right" with "Islamic" would it still be seen as just a bunch of people without power or influence?

    As with many ideologies there's not a single framework to put everyone into, the media who have used white supremacy and proud boys together seem to be doing so off the back of US departments own classifications. There's also a lot of cross over and linkage between a lot of these groups, such as proud boys, oath keepers, etc. where individual members will hold different views. I'm aware that liberals are just capable of conflating groups and causes to argue a point as well.

    I posted that liberals are wasting their time posting on Misc, this is something I absolutely stand by and would extend to all posters. Nothing changed really, I'm in between modules in my degree and there was the debate so thought I'd see how Misc was going, what can I say it's mildly addictive as a time sink when there's pretty much sweet FA to do due to COVID lockdown.
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    Good post(s). Finally some good fcking reasoning in this forum.

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    Originally Posted by Reflexez View Post
    I fully agree with the condemnation of opportunists who used public outrage to loot, destroy and attack people.

    What I would point out however is that your post seems to only use visual observations to draw a conclusion, there are streets on fire, this side did it so they're the bad guys. The reality however is much more complex and while "right wing" individuals or groups might not be openly causing chaos like people under the banner of ANTIFA/BLM they pose an extremely large threat to Americans.

    If you look at the statistics of terrorist plots which were either carried out or foiled, there is a massive growing trend towards them being orchestrated by people with extreme right wing views:



    When looking at this date range the vast majority of deaths were caused in the 9/11 attacks, however outside of that:



    In short, there is a reason that these groups need to be called out and not energised with statements such as "stand ready" because they take that as a call to arms when they believe the time is right. Yes ANTIFA/BLM need to end their violent actions, but for Trump supporters to ignore the intentions of others based on the fact they vote the same way is a dangerous game.
    Lol I knew at least one miscer was gonna bring this chit up.

    If you don't convict Left-Wing Terrorists you don't get accurate data. Dwell on that fact. In 2020, we had almost a billion dollars worth of destruction so where's the left-wing terrorism numbers in the 2020 data? Oh that's right no one got convicted so in clown world there were no left-wing terrorist attacks. You think were stupid? You think Trump is stupid? The only phaggots out there shooting others is left-wing nut jobs and a select few right-wingers. And many of those instances were self-defense.

    Fuk outta here with your pathetic arse data charts.
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    Unregistered User jlick's Avatar
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    OP- confirmed low IQ. Trump has condemned white supremacy so many times. will you right here and now confirm that you are not a pe-dophile?
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  30. #30
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    Originally Posted by EarlA View Post
    What’s wrong with loving your country? You said some dumb chit like this yesterday too.
    nah being in love with america is fukking weird

    you cant objectively evaluate the state of your country when youre in love with it

    youre just blinded by lust and auto-default to "im in love with america and things are awesome no matter WHAT and brb time to hump the flag"

    like put your dick away dude this is your country we're talking about so stop trying to fukk it
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