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  1. #1
    Registered User scythiss1's Avatar
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    Does strength training help anything?

    Will strength training increase striking power and grappling strength? Everything I read online says no, but I don’t see why it wouldn’t.
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    it does but if you're training MMA, you have to train alot of different aspects and it takes a lot to get really good at them, you'd arguably get a better return practicing and perfecting the techniques associated with striking power and grappling strength while still getting stronger

    at a certain point as well strength has pretty heavy diminishing returns but having a solid base is always good and trying to maintain that. Depending on your weight class and style conditioning is probably more important
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    Registered User Gizzyhardcore's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by scythiss1 View Post
    Will strength training increase striking power and grappling strength? Everything I read online says no, but I don’t see why it wouldn’t.
    very limited.

    Work on your conditioning, no good being gym strong with no conditioning cause that strength will go after a few minutes.

    Try 2.5min assault bike, 2.5min heavy bag, 1 min rest
    x5

    See how hard you hitting that bag after a few rounds
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    Registered User kusok's Avatar
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    Yes.

    All top people in my MMA gym which has many UFC pros, other pros and even some Champions, do weights. Personally I found that just with strength alone you already have much increased chances when rolling with more skilled grapplers. It especially helps with keeping a position.

    Or think of Mike Tyson’s neck thickness, That’s resistance training also, this helps with submission defense and not getting hurt as much if you get hit in the head or pressured on your neck with a forearm when grappling.

    If you can do piston squats you will kick harder especially with push kick. If you can do explosive bench and chins your punches will be stronger and come back sooner (for defense)

    If your abs are strong, less chance to get hurt or tired, stronger core also helps all around. Strong leg and core muscles help you escape mount easier since you can explode harder from the bottom and shrimp out.

    I used to spar with a former Olympic TKD heavyweight competitor, he was also an amateur bodybuilder on the side, it was pointless to hit him, he was so solid that you would just hurt yourself by hitting him. It was like hitting a thick tree or a brick wall. Moving him when grappling was impossible. He stood there like a bunker. 220 lbs of solid muscle. But with people who don’t lift you can move them and control them much much easier. You can push them off when you need distance, you can pull them in, you can move them with your strikes and it doesn’t hurt your feet or hands as much.
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  5. #5
    Strength Sports for Life C Project's Avatar
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    It can help, but as someone above mentioned, don't abandon your conditioning for strength training. Typically the "serious conditioning work" starts a couple of months before your competition. Some fighters, such as Diaz brothers, Covington, and several others, stay in shape the whole year. At least they claim to. I don't know them personally


    Dedicating two or three days a week to strength training, not bodybuilding, can play a vital role into your success. More explosive, stronger -- in the clinch, against the cage, etc. -- more work capacity, things like that. This varies from athlete to athlete, but in my limited time as a fighter and even more limited time as a trainer I've not seen any non-responders to this specific style of training.

    So many systems are at work in combat sports, that almost everything is important: strength, power, anaerobic conditioning, aerobic conditioning. You don't need a six day bro split, just a two day or three day, full body split to get your strength up. Squat, Deadlift, Overhead Press, Incline Bench. Increase your weight every session, test yourself every second week -- new three or five rep max for example.
    Moved Squat, Bench, and Deadlift to Yoke, Log, and Stones.
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  6. #6
    Registered User kusok's Avatar
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    It should be mentioned WHY some say weight training isn’t good for fighting. It’s because many people lift weights with some mistakes, and those mistakes are bad for fighting. Namely, you must stretch! If you don’t, weight lifting can make you tighter. You must recover, or your fighting training will suffer, so you can’t do 5 day bro lifting splits when you lift and fight, you gotta go to 3x per week lifting and even 2x per week if you train a lot of fighting. You must not abandon your cardio, if you just lift, you will gas out quick. You must be able to walk quickly for an hour or more easily, you must be able to run for 30 minutes non-stop, and do HIIT. You must lift explosively, this helps with quickness and power of your strikes. No slow lifting which some bodybuilders do.
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    IDDQD Austanian's Avatar
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    Sounds like this is coming from the BJJ skinny fuks.

    Strength + Technique >Technique > Strength

    It isn't uncommon for big strong lifters with a few months of training to start giving the blues and smaller purples A LOT of trouble.
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    Registered User kusok's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Austanian View Post
    Sounds like this is coming from the BJJ skinny fuks.

    Strength + Technique >Technique > Strength

    It isn't uncommon for big strong lifters with a few months of training to start giving the blues and smaller purples A LOT of trouble.

    That ^^

    At first I thought when rolling people are going easy, apparently my “easy” was them rolling full strength... so I was like ok... do I have a permission to use more strength and make people uncomfortable? Just simple stuff, like I can just headlock them and stay in side control Old school Mark Coleman style move, good luck getting me off you if you don’t lift, then I can also pull on that neck...

    Cliffs: strength is important


    P.s.
    I remember old days when Coleman yelled at Randleman from a corner: “Use your strength, Kev!” LOL
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    Registered User scythiss1's Avatar
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    Was considering giving up weights so I can drop a lot of weight and gain some speed. Didn’t see the benefit in it because everything online said it does nothing for strength in terms of striking and grappling. I doubted what I read, because I ‘m pretty sure my insane striking power and grappling strength comes from being a huge dumb retard.
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    Fernando Statham doughnutking's Avatar
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    I remember reading an article about a powerlifter who took up BJJ and started owning everyone through strength alone.
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    Originally Posted by doughnutking View Post
    I remember reading an article about a powerlifter who took up BJJ and started owning everyone through strength alone.

    This is true in striking also, many big guys who played football or wrestled and lift weights start in striking and have poor technique and no experience, but good luck stopping that kick... it’s like a tree being swung at you.
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    IDDQD Austanian's Avatar
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    Kusok do you bother with the 100% finesse techniques? We had a 120 lb girl teach a class and her entire philosophy was to move herself and not the person.

    I mean I know I won't ALWAYS be the strongest, but unless I get in a wrestling match at a strongman competition...

    *not saying using spazz out and go 100% strength, but it seems awkward to focus on stuff the requires a level of flexibility and contortion most of us will never have.

    Originally Posted by doughnutking View Post
    I remember reading an article about a powerlifter who took up BJJ and started owning everyone through strength alone.
    Usually takes a couple months. You need to know "don't do that" how to escape, submissions...

    Once you get a couple of those down the huge disparity in strength becomes readily apparent.
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    Registered User kusok's Avatar
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    ^^ Totally agreed. My gym is MMA, so they are much more liberal about following BJJ rules and technique. Basically they teach everything properly and have legit BJJ instructors and black belts under some famous names, but let you do whatever your body does naturally when rolling. As long as you be respectful (aka not too rough when rolling) and at least try to learn the moves and work on your stretching etc. instead of just relying on your strength.
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    Here's beer Mr Beer's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Austanian View Post
    Kusok do you bother with the 100% finesse techniques? We had a 120 lb girl teach a class and her entire philosophy was to move herself and not the person.
    Which is might be a good approach for a 120lbs girl but if you are a strong male it seems beyond retarded to never train in a way that uses your advantage.
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    A BODYBUILDING GOD KingSWRV's Avatar
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    Like i have said a million times.

    6 months of one first

    then 6 months of the other.

    you dont do them at the same time, you do them consecutively in spans of time.

    First you spend time building a base, foundation of strength. Until then you are less than optimal. And if you train fighting during this span of building foundation you will be overtraining and overload and ultimately stall in effective/efficient upward progress. So do ONLY powerlifting and eating and sleeping, nothing else.

    Once you peaked in strength at least once in your life properly then youre good for a long time.

    Then with the base you can spend time building up cardio and endurance (while minimizing the loss of your gains with amino acids and lots of protein) which only takes a few weeks.

    Its all based on time, you need all the elements if you want to be your best self.

    DONT EVER LISTEN TO ANYONE WHO TALKS AT ALL ABOUT MUSCLES MAKING YOU TIGHT OR GAY STUFF LIKE THAT - its literally has nothing to do with anything and is just stupidity. Powerlifting is not the same as vanity lifting for hypertrophy.

    If "everything online" says that thats true you are reading some dumb places trying to sell you something. Even the dumbest old school MMA trainers stopped believing that crap 5-10 years ago when they saw every single MMA champion powerlifts like an absolute mad man.
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    I'm not gonna lie, if you've never fought, somebody that's untrained can fuk you up in those first ten to fifteen seconds of them busting you in your chit, but if you know how to fight then strength training is really good, picking people up and dumping them on their head ends fights, solid tackles knock the wind and fight outta people, and strong people can knock the fuk outta folks too

    It's on you really, fights are different man, it ain't what you expect
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    Also It’s well known a lot of people weight train for body composition or for strength.

    However the optimal type of training for athletes is always for explosivity and strengthening supporting muscles.

    Band pressing superset after bench pressing, Cleans, weighted star lunges, sprints etc..
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    Originally Posted by Mr Beer View Post
    Which is might be a good approach for a 120lbs girl but if you have are a strong male it seems beyond retarded to never train in a way that uses your advantage.

    Well put! Coach often encourages me in drills and sparring to do what works well for me even when it’s not 100% “correct“
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    Originally Posted by kusok View Post
    Yes.

    All top people in my MMA gym which has many UFC pros, other pros and even some Champions, do weights. Personally I found that just with strength alone you already have much increased chances when rolling with more skilled grapplers. It especially helps with keeping a position.

    Or think of Mike Tyson’s neck thickness, That’s resistance training also, this helps with submission defense and not getting hurt as much if you get hit in the head or pressured on your neck with a forearm when grappling.

    If you can do piston squats you will kick harder especially with push kick. If you can do explosive bench and chins your punches will be stronger and come back sooner (for defense)

    If your abs are strong, less chance to get hurt or tired, stronger core also helps all around. Strong leg and core muscles help you escape mount easier since you can explode harder from the bottom and shrimp out.

    I used to spar with a former Olympic TKD heavyweight competitor, he was also an amateur bodybuilder on the side, it was pointless to hit him, he was so solid that you would just hurt yourself by hitting him. It was like hitting a thick tree or a brick wall. Moving him when grappling was impossible. He stood there like a bunker. 220 lbs of solid muscle. But with people who don’t lift you can move them and control them much much easier. You can push them off when you need distance, you can pull them in, you can move them with your strikes and it doesn’t hurt your feet or hands as much.
    What gym is that? that has many UFC fighters and even some champions (plural)?
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    This is simple. Would you rather roll/spar with someone who deadlifts 600 or 200, given their technical ability in whichever martial art is equal to or even slightly less than yours?
    Last edited by ahox; 10-03-2020 at 10:58 AM.
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    Srtength helps a lot, but balancing strength training with martial arts training can be really tough.
    After you reach certain plateaus and would need a lot of specific training for months just to add 10 more lbs to the big 3, it might not be worth it anymore.

    Originally Posted by doughnutking View Post
    I remember reading an article about a powerlifter who took up BJJ and started owning everyone through strength alone.
    Former 1000lbs. squatter competing in Bjj compensates a lot of technique with strength. Note the guy, who beat him in the finals, is actually bigger than him and played in the NFL as a defensive tackle. Matches start @ 7:30

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    Originally Posted by Gizzyhardcore View Post
    What gym is that? that has many UFC fighters and even some champions (plural)?

    Sadly the internet is really bad at respecting privacy, so I prefer to not name names. But it’s a big well known MMA gym. (When I say champs I don’t mean several current UFC champions obviously, I mean some former, some from other disciplines etc.)
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    Having more strength is always good.
    Doing both strength training and be proficient at MMA at the same time doesn't work well unless you're on the juice or a genetic freak.
    Like it's been mentioned before, building a good foundation on strength then moving to MMA might be the best way to go at it.
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    Originally Posted by Crazee_786 View Post
    Same mud


    Same blood
    Are you a poet,

    Or a warrior.
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    Strength training does help with strength

    So there's that
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    Originally Posted by C Project View Post
    It can help, but as someone above mentioned, don't abandon your conditioning for strength training. Typically the "serious conditioning work" starts a couple of months before your competition. Some fighters, such as Diaz brothers, Covington, and several others, stay in shape the whole year. At least they claim to. I don't know them personally


    Dedicating two or three days a week to strength training, not bodybuilding, can play a vital role into your success. More explosive, stronger -- in the clinch, against the cage, etc. -- more work capacity, things like that. This varies from athlete to athlete, but in my limited time as a fighter and even more limited time as a trainer I've not seen any non-responders to this specific style of training.

    So many systems are at work in combat sports, that almost everything is important: strength, power, anaerobic conditioning, aerobic conditioning. You don't need a six day bro split, just a two day or three day, full body split to get your strength up. Squat, Deadlift, Overhead Press, Incline Bench. Increase your weight every session, test yourself every second week -- new three or five rep max for example.
    Haven't seen Mr. C Project in a long time, how you doing gangster? the OG BJ Penn nuthugger.
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    Originally Posted by scythiss1 View Post
    I ‘m pretty sure my insane striking power and grappling strength comes from being a huge dumb retard.
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    Just look up Joel Jamieson and do what he tells you.
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    Originally Posted by KingSWRV View Post
    Like i have said a million times.

    6 months of one first

    then 6 months of the other.

    you dont do them at the same time, you do them consecutively in spans of time.

    First you spend time building a base, foundation of strength. Until then you are less than optimal. And if you train fighting during this span of building foundation you will be overtraining and overload and ultimately stall in effective/efficient upward progress. So do ONLY powerlifting and eating and sleeping, nothing else.

    Once you peaked in strength at least once in your life properly then youre good for a long time.

    Then with the base you can spend time building up cardio and endurance (while minimizing the loss of your gains with amino acids and lots of protein) which only takes a few weeks.

    Its all based on time, you need all the elements if you want to be your best self.

    DONT EVER LISTEN TO ANYONE WHO TALKS AT ALL ABOUT MUSCLES MAKING YOU TIGHT OR GAY STUFF LIKE THAT - its literally has nothing to do with anything and is just stupidity. Powerlifting is not the same as vanity lifting for hypertrophy.

    If "everything online" says that thats true you are reading some dumb places trying to sell you something. Even the dumbest old school MMA trainers stopped believing that crap 5-10 years ago when they saw every single MMA champion powerlifts like an absolute mad man.
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