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  1. #91
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    Rogan is the sh*t

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  2. #92
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    Originally Posted by Karl_Hungus View Post
    No, he's not a white supremacist and no he is not the leader of a movement.

    Origin of the Proud Boys

    Yes they started as a joke fraternity and in some ways still resemble that, but I think they've grown beyond that original scope. Personally, I think they're provocateurs but their threat like many groups is exaggerated. They need to have a clearer message for the public and stricter enforcement against racists in their ranks. A lot of people would disagree with me, however. They'd say they dog-whistle to racists and only condemn out of necessity.
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  3. #93
    Registered User LWW's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by 7Seconds View Post
    Yes they started as a joke fraternity and in some ways still resemble that, but I think they've grown beyond that original scope. Personally, I think they're provocateurs but their threat like many groups is exaggerated. They need to have a clearer message for the public and stricter enforcement against racists in their ranks. A lot of people would disagree with me, however. They'd say they dog-whistle to racists and only condemn out of necessity.

    I didn’t even watch this but one thing I agree on is when anyone forms these groups they will akways have bad apples and you know what they say about that. Being affiliated with a group is stupid stuff, defending your neighbohood, home, etc is needed if someone is in the process of burning it down and the police that you pay stand around and do nothing, that’s the situation and the media on the left seem to want to call someone protecting thier area a whit Serpremist because they’ll loose thier job if they don’t.

    And the media created this racist image of a nationalist. These days globalization is growing, there are good things and bad things about this, so there is nothing wrong with being a nationalist and wanting to keep your job or way of life, your individualism.
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  4. #94
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    Originally Posted by LWW View Post
    I didn’t even watch this but one thing I agree on is when anyone forms these groups they will akways have bad apples and you know what they say about that. Being affiliated with a group is stupid stuff, defending your neighbohood, home, etc is needed if someone is in the process of burning it down and the police that you pay stand around and do nothing, that’s the situation and the media on the left seem to want to call someone protecting thier area a whit Serpremist because they’ll loose thier job if they don’t.

    And the media created this racist image of a nationalist. These days globalization is growing, there are good things and bad things about this, so there is nothing wrong with being a nationalist and wanting to keep your job or way of life, your individualism.
    Like any other group their members don't always represent their official stances. The Proud Boys would tell you they aren’t at all racist. Anyone in the overall left category would tell you they’re white nationalists. Full-on explicit racists would describe the Proud Boys as “civnats”, a word meaning a group that’s nationalist but believes nationalism is based on culture, not race/genetics.

    The Proud Boy oath asks candidates to declare themselves “Western chauvinists” who “refuse to apologize for creating the modern world”. They will and do sign on men of all races willing to swear such. So, actual Nazis think they’re degenerate for allowing non-whites, while anyone on the left would say that “Western chauvinism” and the like is a dog whistle for white supremacy, and fundamentally the Proud Boys will enlist other races as long as they accept that “Western” (white) culture is superior.
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  5. #95
    Last otter standing Jtbny's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Karl_Hungus View Post
    No, he's not a white supremacist and no he is not the leader of a movement.

    Origin of the Proud Boys

    But he is bat **** crazy.
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  6. #96
    Registered User LWW's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by 7Seconds View Post
    Like any other group their members don't always represent their official stances. The Proud Boys would tell you they aren’t at all racist. Anyone in the overall left category would tell you they’re white nationalists. Full-on explicit racists would describe the Proud Boys as “civnats”, a word meaning a group that’s nationalist but believes nationalism is based on culture, not race/genetics.

    The Proud Boy oath asks candidates to declare themselves “Western chauvinists” who “refuse to apologize for creating the modern world”. They will and do sign on men of all races willing to swear such. So, actual Nazis think they’re degenerate for allowing non-whites, while anyone on the left would say that “Western chauvinism” and the like is a dog whistle for white supremacy, and fundamentally the Proud Boys will enlist other races as long as they accept that “Western” (white) culture is superior.

    If the oath stuff is true, that's really bad stuff whether it's being proud of culture or not.

    So I'm man enough to admit that about this group or any group that does silly chit, and BLM is as bad.

    Oaths become control, which goes against western culture.

    But I still don't see any hangings and draggings with pickup trucks (but that could happen, with any group that becomes powerful).

    El, you ready to man up yet??????
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  7. #97
    Registered User 7Seconds's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by LWW View Post
    If the oath stuff is true, that's really bad stuff whether it's being proud of culture or not.

    So I'm man enough to admit that about this group or any group that does silly chit, and BLM is as bad.

    Oaths become control, which goes against western culture.

    But I still don't see any hangings and draggings with pickup trucks (but that could happen, with any group that becomes powerful).

    El, you ready to man up yet??????

    I am not real sure where you are going with oaths but that was my word, I am not sure that is what they call it.

    Back to the racism end, I have a few libertarian friends who go to Proud Boy rallies and I have never seen anything that would make me think they are racist in anyway.

    Obviously, embracing "western culture" will also attract those who support the racist histories of those countries. It also naturally attracts those who hate opposing cultures and want a homogenous culture. I am sure some chapters of the organization have been overrun by some genuine racists.

    But I don't think that the Proud Boys are inherently racist. They seem mostly to want to go back to the "good times," while forgetting what that actually implies for most people. The ideology isn't exactly new, you hear it from a lot of hardcore Christians as well.

    That being said, it's an extreme form of conservativism for which I would never advocate. While I think most people are well-meaning, the end result of their actual ideology would be hell for women, immigrants, and minorities.

    You can try to separate the good, "Christian" traditions of western culture from the racist history of the West, as the Proud Boys do, but it seems impossible to me. The two are linked.
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  8. #98
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    Originally Posted by LWW View Post

    El, you ready to man up yet??????


    Don't let em get away Tater


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  9. #99
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    Originally Posted by 7Seconds View Post
    I am not real sure where you are going with oaths but that was my word, I am not sure that is what they call it.

    Back to the racism end, I have a few libertarian friends who go to Proud Boy rallies and I have never seen anything that would make me think they are racist in anyway.

    Obviously, embracing "western culture" will also attract those who support the racist histories of those countries. It also naturally attracts those who hate opposing cultures and want a homogenous culture. I am sure some chapters of the organization have been overrun by some genuine racists.

    But I don't think that the Proud Boys are inherently racist. They seem mostly to want to go back to the "good times," while forgetting what that actually implies for most people. The ideology isn't exactly new, you hear it from a lot of hardcore Christians as well.

    That being said, it's an extreme form of conservativism for which I would never advocate. While I think most people are well-meaning, the end result of their actual ideology would be hell for women, immigrants, and minorities.

    You can try to separate the good, "Christian" traditions of western culture from the racist history of the West, as the Proud Boys do, but it seems impossible to me. The two are linked.


    Dude, western culture didn’t start slavery it was already part of the world, if anything our culture of individualism ended slavery.

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  10. #100
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    Originally Posted by mtpockets View Post
    don't let em get away tater


    lol
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  11. #101
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    Originally Posted by LWW View Post
    Dude, western culture didn’t start slavery it was already part of the world,....
    That’s not what I said.
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  12. #102
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    Originally Posted by mtpockets View Post
    Don't let em get away Tater

    MT Hammer, you think that little puppy's gonna let go at some point?
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  13. #103
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    Originally Posted by Mark1T View Post
    MT Hammer, you think that little puppy's gonna let go at some point?
    HaHa, not a chance in hell.
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  14. #104
    Registered User sy2502's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by LWW View Post
    If the oath stuff is true, that's really bad stuff whether it's being proud of culture or not.

    So I'm man enough to admit that about this group or any group that does silly chit, and BLM is as bad.

    Oaths become control, which goes against western culture.

    But I still don't see any hangings and draggings with pickup trucks (but that could happen, with any group that becomes powerful).

    El, you ready to man up yet??????
    What's wrong with an oath? If you want to join a group the least you can do is declare you agree with their core values. Nobody forces you to join any group, and I am pretty sure you can leave at any time, so how is it "control"?
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  15. #105
    In Witness Protection mtpockets's Avatar
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