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  1. #1
    Registered User HtotheOV's Avatar
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    you don’t have a franchise QB if they require elite talent

    just lol at fans who complain about their young QB not performing due to their supporting cast. aka Jets fans with Darnold

    “But he just needs an elite OL, pro bowl WR, elite RB and top defense!”

    franchise qbs elevate the cast around them and make bad players look at least average such as Peyton, Luck, Eli, and Wilson for example.
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    Bangarang. AgRyan's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by King4Hesiman View Post
    Darnold was trash in college. Had a decent good games, but was a turnover and INT machine.

    Reminds me of Jaameios WInston who threw a **** ton of INT's in college and people just ignored it.
    What? He was great in college. Don't recall the exact stats, but he was great his first year and in his second year he went 2:1, which isn't great, but he won games and made amazing throws. Winston I think did much better his first year but was more turnover prone than 2:1 his second year when he lost a lot of talent.

    In regards to OP, we will never know about a lot of QBs. What if Darnold was on the Rams and Goff was on the Jets? Goff would look worse than he did his rookie year.... who knows what Darnold would look like. You can do a lot with good coaching and decent support. You can't really do anything if you're missing... everything.
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    Wilson is the best example of this currently. He dragged that team to the playoffs last year and he's already balling out this year too.
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    Registered User HtotheOV's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by AgRyan View Post
    What? He was great in college. Don't recall the exact stats, but he was great his first year and in his second year he went 2:1, which isn't great, but he won games and made amazing throws. Winston I think did much better his first year but was more turnover prone than 2:1 his second year when he lost a lot of talent.

    In regards to OP, we will never know about a lot of QBs. What if Darnold was on the Rams and Goff was on the Jets? Goff would look worse than he did his rookie year.... who knows what Darnold would look like. You can do a lot with good coaching and decent support. You can't really do anything if you're missing... everything.
    you basically proved my point. Goff is playing well because he has great coaching who knows the system to help him succeed
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    Originally Posted by HtotheOV View Post
    you basically proved my point. Goff is playing well because he has great coaching who knows the system to help him succeed
    Goff still getting hate because his first season was under Jeff "8-8" Fisher.

    The disrespect.
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    False Football Prophet drvillain's Avatar
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    I don't know, I'm seeing QBs (whom i wont name) put up 40 points a game and still lose. I think things like a good defense and/or coaching matters.

    A good coach can scheme average WRs open, but a bad offensive & defensive line is brutal unless you have a mobile QB. But even then, you don't want your QB holding on to the ball forever or getting creamed
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    Registered User HtotheOV's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by drvillain View Post
    I don't know, I'm seeing QBs (whom i wont name) put up 40 points a game and still lose. I think things like a good defense and/or coaching matters.

    A good coach can scheme average WRs open, but a bad offensive & defensive line is brutal unless you have a mobile QB. But even then, you don't want your QB holding on to the ball forever or getting creamed
    I’m mainly talking about an individual QB success not necessarily team wins
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    Registered User Swept's Avatar
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    They at least need to show glimpses. Darnold, Jones and Haskins really haven’t shown much.

    Minshew is making all those guys look bad.
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    You also don’t have a SB ring if you don’t have elite talent.
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    Originally Posted by Swept View Post
    They at least need to show glimpses. Darnold, Jones and Haskins really haven’t shown much.

    Minshew is making all those guys look bad.
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    I agree for the most part. All elite QBs win year in and year out no matter the personnel. I also believe coaching is downplayed by some. Elite QB and Elite coaching is the recipe for SB rings. Look at Rodgers. He won a SB all by himself but if he had elite coaching he would have numerous rings.
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    Luke LukeS1's Avatar
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    A good oline and weapons won't make Darnold elite, but it definitely makes a difference to their careers.

    Andrew Luck could have had a HOF, multiple super bowl winning career if he landed somewhere with a decent oline and coaches. Im worried Joe Burrow is going to suffer the same thing, clearly hes a talent but if you allow him to get hit over and over its only a matter of time
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    Registered User Droopdx's Avatar
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    Having a decent offensive line and a scheme means the world for a young quarterback.

    Marcus Mariota:
    Mobile
    Spread offense
    Athletes around him in college

    Gets to Titans:
    Smash mouth offense
    Terrible o line
    Old school coach
    No playmakers

    Gets injured repeatedly. Your confidence can get shattered quickly by being drafted into the wrong situation
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    Vin Diesel Brah JUGGERNAUT1333's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Droopdx View Post
    Your confidence can get shattered quickly by being drafted into the wrong situation
    This x 1000.

    There are very few elite QBs that can come out of college and completely change a franchise overnight without having a solid supporting cast/coaching.
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    Registered User Swept's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Droopdx View Post
    Having a decent offensive line and a scheme means the world for a young quarterback.

    Marcus Mariota:
    Mobile
    Spread offense
    Athletes around him in college

    Gets to Titans:
    Smash mouth offense
    Terrible o line
    Old school coach
    No playmakers

    Gets injured repeatedly. Your confidence can get shattered quickly by being drafted into the wrong situation
    That’s the point op is making, most QB need a system to succeed. The super talents don’t need much. Cam and Andrew Luck have been surrounded by chit their entire careers and both have made pro bowls and have had success.

    Look at noodle arm Brees, he got benched for 40 yo Doug Flutie in SD a couple years later Sean Payton makes him a record breaking machine
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    Vin Diesel Brah JUGGERNAUT1333's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Swept View Post
    That’s the point op is making, most QB need a system to succeed. The super talents don’t need much. Cam and Andrew Luck have been surrounded by chit their entire careers and both have made pro bowls and have had success.

    Look at noodle arm Brees, he got benched for 40 yo Doug Flutie in SD a couple years later Sean Payton makes him a record breaking machine
    IMO there should be a difference between a "franchise QB" and "elite QB"

    Franchise QB is exactly as the title says - a QB who can lead a franchise, who will typically have a good system around him .

    Elite QB - can carry teammates and coaches to success. This is a really small pool of QBs.
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