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  1. #1
    Registered User 360365LAWS's Avatar
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    Standing-Press vs. High Incline or Seated Overhead

    I'm really beginning to question the value of a standing press. You can't lift as much weight vs. seated, and especially vs. a bit of a lean back on the bench. You can work your abs separately, you can do front-squats, and really lots of other full-body lifts to build full body strength. You can't use as much weight while standing, but what do you gain that you can't gain more of from another exercise?

    Push-Presses and jerks are sort of different, but are sort of relevant. I'm really referring more to a strict standing press.

    Then you factor safety in. It seems like a no brainer.
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    Unregistered User MyEgoProblem's Avatar
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    Free scapula movement vs pinned down scapula on a bench. That's about it other than preference for a regular lifter.

    The actual weight comparison is basically a none issue, more weight =/= more stimulus.

    And safety.. Its safer to be able to step back than be stuck on a bench if you drop.

    Either way, its still nice to have more options/variations for better motor learning, strength through different grooves and to not over use / over work the same movement patterns. Hell, even (quality) machines are good too here.

    Pick one, run it, switch out when you stall or when you feel you are almost out of momentum with it.
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    Originally Posted by 360365LAWS View Post
    I'm really beginning to question the value of a standing press. You can't lift as much weight vs. seated, and especially vs. a bit of a lean back on the bench. You can work your abs separately, you can do front-squats, and really lots of other full-body lifts to build full body strength. You can't use as much weight while standing, but what do you gain that you can't gain more of from another exercise?

    Push-Presses and jerks are sort of different, but are sort of relevant. I'm really referring more to a strict standing press.

    Then you factor safety in. It seems like a no brainer.
    Standing OHP is a bb.com meme. HUGELY overrated lift, especially in the realm of hypertrophy.

    *completely vertical pressing in general is overrated, especially from a shoulder health perspective (for a lot of people)
    Last edited by jk202; 09-20-2020 at 02:50 PM.
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    I used to be a standing BB OHP purist, until I realized how overrated they were for shoulder hypertrophy and health when

    1) my traps are being worked way harder already with rows and pulldowns

    2) my shoulders have grown from focusing on Seated machine presses, incline pressing, rows and pulldowns

    3) they suck for the long head of the triceps. Lying triceps extensions absolutely murder my triceps

    4) they suck for the middle and rear delts as well

    Moral of the story, I’d focus on flat and incline pressing
    Last edited by BeginnerGainz; 09-20-2020 at 06:33 PM.
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    Registered User jaxqen's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by BeginnerGainz View Post
    I used to be a standing BB OHP purist, until I realized how overrated they were for shoulder hypertrophy and health when

    1) my traps are being worked way harder already with rows and pulldowns

    2) my shoulders have grown from focusing on Seated machine presses, incline pressing, rows and pulldowns

    3) they suck for the long head of the triceps. Lying triceps extensions absolutely murder my triceps

    4) they suck for the middle and rear delts as well

    Moral of the story, I’d focus on flat and incline pressing
    I agree, although I still do BB OHP


    Just curious, when did your opinion change?

    Because in July you recommended me to keep the standing barbell overhead press and not switch it with high incline dumbell press

    https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showt...8691921&page=1
    "Reminds me of the good ol' days back in 03-04 when ripptoes/5 by 5/hit/doggcrap reigned supreme and you did not need direct arm work for big biceps. Rows and chins were it. "Ever see a guy rowing 300+lbs with chicken arms?". Ah yes those were the days. God bless amusclehead and his twisted one dimensional views along with the rest of the former flock."
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    Registered User BeginnerGainz's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by jaxqen View Post
    I agree, although I still do BB OHP


    Just curious, when did your opinion change?

    Because in July you recommended me to keep the standing barbell overhead press and not switch it with high incline dumbell press

    https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showt...8691921&page=1
    Mostly from experience with giving incline an honest try. I used to be in the camp that OHP is fine for the upper chest (it’s not) and good for delt hypertrophy (it is but not for the middle or rear delts).

    I used to be a standing press purist as well but that has changed. I like Seated without back support. Takes the legs completely out of the movement and I had to lower the weight accordingly.
    Last edited by BeginnerGainz; 09-24-2020 at 04:45 PM.
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    Registered User GeneralSerpant's Avatar
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    I think standing legs provide more kinetic chain grounding than seated hips.

    Seated is good for working on upper torso stability instead of mobility (overhead carrying vs pushing).
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    Registered User 360365LAWS's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by GeneralSerpant View Post
    I think standing legs provide more kinetic chain grounding than seated hips.

    Seated is good for working on upper torso stability instead of mobility (overhead carrying vs pushing).
    Yea, that was how I felt for a long time as well. Now I am asking myself if building a kinetic chain is the main goal of doing an OHP. I'm concluding that it is not, and that the main goals are to build the shoulders, to work any muscles involved in upper-body pushing strength (Upper-Chest, Triceps), and to assist the flat-bench.

    There are a lot of other exercises that build a full-body kinetic chain more intensely than a strict OHP.

    Plus, there is a good bit of truth to the concept that you build strength and muscle in the weight room and develop the skill to do other things in other places.

    At this point, the thought of a standing OHP building the upper-chest is pretty funny. I'm personally going to replace the standing press with a high-incline bench for now.
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    Registered User GeneralSerpant's Avatar
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    I'm not really sure. I like standing OHP.

    All anyone talks about as far as considered effectiveness is muscle size. If the choice involves something that will tangentially make your muscles grow then that will probably get more consideration than something that complements your progress (which makes sense lol).

    Given that standing serves more niche athletic executions, I can see why it's underrated.
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    Seated Dumbbell shoulder press is my favorite
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    Originally Posted by PhillyEagles9 View Post
    Seated Dumbbell shoulder press is my favorite
    That doesn't make any sense.
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  12. #12
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    I've always hated the standing press but sometimes I'll do it at the end of a press workout with 135 and do a couple of sets of high reps.

    Going heavy on it has never worked for me but it seems passable when done with a light weight

    Much prefer the seated hammer strength press tbh
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    Originally Posted by GeneralSerpant View Post
    That doesn't make any sense.
    **** you pussy
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    Originally Posted by PhillyEagles9 View Post
    **** you pussy
    Incredibly articulate and wonderful contribution to the thread. Thank you for enlightening us with why you enjoy the OHP so much rather than spouting nonsense.
    “No man has the right to be an amateur in the matter of physical training. It is a shame for a man to grow old without seeing the beauty and strength of which his body is capable.” - Socrates

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    Originally Posted by GeneralSerpant View Post
    I'm not really sure. I like standing OHP.

    All anyone talks about as far as considered effectiveness is muscle size. If the choice involves something that will tangentially make your muscles grow then that will probably get more consideration than something that complements your progress (which makes sense lol).

    Given that standing serves more niche athletic executions, I can see why it's underrated.
    Yeah, I'm with you on this. Not sure why, but I like the standing OHP. Seated, it just feels like a weird version of the incline bench, and it's too easy to cheat with the chest anyway.

    I think the appeal is related to that for the deadlift - something gratifying about holding a weight controlled over your head while standing, much as with picking it up from the ground and holding it.

    Perhaps a dumb question, but if it doesn't simply come down to using more of the chest, why is the standing OHP so much harder?
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    Originally Posted by EliKoehn View Post
    Yeah, I'm with you on this. Not sure why, but I like the standing OHP. Seated, it just feels like a weird version of the incline bench, and it's too easy to cheat with the chest anyway.

    I think the appeal is related to that for the deadlift - something gratifying about holding a weight controlled over your head while standing, much as with picking it up from the ground and holding it.

    Perhaps a dumb question, but if it doesn't simply come down to using more of the chest, why is the standing OHP so much harder?
    Not sure. Basically standing pressing seems to me more like a power strength movement with leg drive whereas seated just has you be real puffy with your torso.

    I mean I try to OHP like in rippetoe's video. I'm fairly certain Alan Thrall's got a similar power technique on OHP 2.0 as well, as I think he calls it. It uses more hip drive etc and I'm not really sure if seated vertical pressing is supposed to be that athletic.
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    If this is behavior typical of Eagles fans, then you can count. me. out.
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    Originally Posted by GeneralSerpant View Post
    Not sure. Basically standing pressing seems to me more like a power strength movement with leg drive whereas seated just has you be real puffy with your torso.

    I mean I try to OHP like in rippetoe's video. I'm fairly certain Alan Thrall's got a similar power technique on OHP 2.0 as well, as I think he calls it. It uses more hip drive etc and I'm not really sure if seated vertical pressing is supposed to be that athletic.
    But exactly, if it's a power strength movement and incorporates the core and the legs where the seated doesn't, should it not therefore be <easier> at the same weight, since the RoM is the same?
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    Originally Posted by EliKoehn View Post
    But exactly, if it's a power strength movement and incorporates the core and the legs where the seated doesn't, should it not therefore be <easier> at the same weight, since the RoM is the same?
    What I was getting at is that it is much more technique oriented and dependent on your proficiency with that.

    I'm really not too familiar with seated though, so there might be a lot to it that I'm missing.
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    Y’all are starting to think too much into it. None is *better* than the other, just pick one you like the best and stick with it. Each has it advantages and disadvantages.

    Standing BB/DB/Smith
    Seated BB/DB/Smith
    Seated BB/DB/Smith with no back support
    Incline BB/DB/Smith
    Etc etc

    Just pick one and overload it with reps and/or weight and reap the rewards.
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