Steaks everyday

[AdamWW]

I'm not too sure about these ideas. For example: I can eat a high amount of muesli with honey. Low fat but easy to overeat. I don't think I'd have any problem smashing white rice either.

Or mango sticky rice, even without the coconut milk, super easy to overeat.

Adding fat does make it easier, I agree. But still easy to overeat on high carb low fat.

Muesli typically contains oats and dried fruit tho, correct? Even then, honey is a very concentrated sugary carb, and if you pair that with the low volume of the muesli (and whatever milk you might add to it) and the added fats and starches, it makes sense it would be easy to consume high amounts of.

I think Strawng is talking about whole-food carbs which aren't high in sugar (other than fruit which is also fairly difficult to over eat alone) such as potato, rice, quinoa, oatmeal, etc... items which require some kind of added seasoning or flavors to become easier to over-consume.

[Mrpb]

Muesli typically contains oats and dried fruit tho, correct? Even then, honey is a very concentrated sugary carb, and if you pair that with the low volume of the muesli (and whatever milk you might add to it) and the added fats and starches, it makes sense it would be easy to consume high amounts of.

I think Strawng is talking about whole-food carbs which aren't high in sugar (other than fruit which is also fairly difficult to over eat alone) such as potato, rice, quinoa, oatmeal, etc... items which require some kind of added seasoning or flavors to become easier to over-consume.

I also use muesli without dried fruit. With oat milk which is low fat. So no added fat.

As I said, I wouldn't have any trouble smashing plain white rice either. I'm not in jail though so I won't have too.

I might look up some research on the satiety of plain white rice. I expect it's very low.

[AdamWW]

I use muesli without dried fruit. With oat milk which is low fat. So no added fat.

As I said, I wouldn't have any trouble smashing plain white rice either. I'm not in jail though so I won't have too.

I might look up some research on the satiety of plain white rice. I expect it's very low.

I certainly COULD smash plain white rice, but it would be a conscious effort.... i wouldn’t do it ad libitum.

For the muesli, without the honey I think it’d be a hard thing to over-consume in the same intuitive/as libitum fashion.

[AlexSays]

Plain white rice isn't hard to overeat because it is satiating

It is hard to overeat because it is dull and overeating it on its own would be an monotonous chore

[Mrpb]

I certainly COULD smash plain white rice, but it would be a conscious effort.... i wouldn’t do it ad libitum.

But that's just because it isn't very palatable. I agree on that part.

As for the muesli with honey, that shows it isn't about the fat.

[Mrpb]

Plain white rice isn't hard to overeat because it is satiating

It is hard to overeat because it is dull and overeating it on its own would be an monotonous chore

Agreed.

[AdamWW]

But that's just because it isn't very palatable. I agree on that part.

As for the muesli with honey, that shows it isn't about the fat.

Certainly not just the fat no, tho I imagine adding coconut oil would help even more.

Fat tends to ‘lubricate’ otherwise dry plain carb sources... much easier to get down.

[Tommy W.]

I meant white rice alone. If white rice is making you fat, it’s because of the oily or fatty things you’re pairing it with. I agree that I can eat a huge amount of white rice, but it’s very hard to overeat on its own. Fays are typically necessary to make even the simplest carbs hyperpalatable enough to massively overeat. I can eat an endless amount of sushi & have. In theory, I could eat an endless amount of plain white rice. I wouldn’t do that though & no one else likely would either because it’s very bland. Fats are typically needed with the carbs or sugar to make them desirable to massively overeat.

Rice with Sriracha =you win

[AdamWW]

Rice with Sriracha =you win

Add sesame seeds for a good time

[Strawng]

But that's just because it isn't very palatable. I agree on that part.

As for the muesli with honey, that shows it isn't about the fat.

That was my whole point. I didn’t mean I couldn’t eat a lot of plain white rice. I meant I couldn’t see a human being in today’s world eating remotely intuitively & getting overweight or obese from plain carbs because they’re not very palatable. They need simple sugars or fats to go with them. I’m talking about palatability, not satiety. FFS people love debating minutia on here. I never once claimed rice satiating. I claimed it was not obesogenic because it’s so boring plain. Add fat, simple sugar, or excess sodium and it’s a different story.

[AdamWW]

That was my whole point. I didn’t mean I couldn’t eat a lot of plain white rice. I meant I couldn’t see a human being in today’s world eating remotely intuitively & getting overweight or obese from plain carbs because they’re not very palatable. They need simple sugars or fats to go with them. I’m talking about palatability, not satiety. FFS people love debating minutia on here. I never once claimed rice satiating. I claimed it was not obesogenic because it’s so boring plain. Add fat, simple sugar, or excess sodium and it’s a different story.

White rice + that thick, sweet, tangy teriyaki sauce with sesame seeds on top....hnnnnng!

[Mrpb]

That was my whole point. I didn’t mean I couldn’t eat a lot of plain white rice. I meant I couldn’t see a human being in today’s world eating remotely intuitively & getting overweight or obese from plain carbs because they’re not very palatable. They need simple sugars or fats to go with them. I’m talking about palatability, not satiety. FFS people love debating minutia on here. I never once claimed rice satiating. I claimed it was not obesogenic because it’s so boring plain. Add fat, simple sugar, or excess sodium and it’s a different story.

It might seem like I'm discussing minutia, maybe I am lol, but you literally wrote "it’s very hard to overeat on its own". So it's not hard, just boring.

[EliKoehn]

It might seem like I'm discussing minutia, maybe I am lol, but you literally wrote "it’s very hard to overeat on its own". So it's not hard, just boring.

Yeah, that seems like a little bit of an overreaction. He made a universal claim, you demonstrate an exception even while agreeing generally, and then it suddenly becomes, "for ****'s sake," a debate about minutiae.

This is a nutrition forum. What else is the point?

... If white rice is making you fat, it’s because of the oily or fatty things you’re pairing it with. ...

... Fays are typically necessary to make even the simplest carbs hyperpalatable enough to massively overeat. ...

That was my whole point. I didn’t mean I couldn’t eat a lot of plain white rice. I meant I couldn’t see a human being in today’s world eating remotely intuitively & getting overweight or obese from plain carbs because they’re not very palatable. They need simple sugars or fats to go with them. I’m talking about palatability, not satiety. FFS people love debating minutia on here. I never once claimed rice satiating. I claimed it was not obesogenic because it’s so boring plain. Add fat, simple sugar, or excess sodium and it’s a different story.

You only just now mentioned simple sugars instead of fats. You started out saying that carbs, to use your words even the simplest, are almost always hard to go overboard with by themselves, yet now you're specifying simple carbs as an exception to this, and also to be fair you did just start a thread arguing that people who prefer them tend to be leaner anyway, as though even simple sugars really aren't that bad on the whole.

I have to agree with what you're saying about fats, it's just that it's pretty clear that you're "team carb" and didn't want to admit that there was an exception with them.

[AdamWW]

How about this:

Refined sugars make food easier to overeat

Refined oils/fats make food easier to overeat

Salt/seasonings make food easier to overeat


The less intense a flavor is, and the less added, concentrated, refined oil, fat, or sugar is added, the less likely it is to cause over-consumption

[Mrpb]

How about this:

Refined sugars make food easier to overeat

Refined oils/fats make food easier to overeat

Salt/seasonings make food easier to overeat

I guess you mean they increase palatability?

If so, it's close but I don't even think the oil and sugars need to be refined. Mango sticky rice being a good example. They drizzle coconut milk over it. The sugars in mango aren't refined.

Adding raisins to muesli also increases palatability.

[AdamWW]

I think I’m done beating this topic....

[Mrpb]

I think I’m done beating this topic....

Why? You asked for feedback, you got it.

I'm curious, do you agree that the sugars and oil do not need to be refined?

[Mrpb]

Yeah, that seems like a little bit of an overreaction. He made a universal claim, you demonstrate an exception even while agreeing generally, and then it suddenly becomes, "for ****'s sake," a debate about minutiae.

This is a nutrition forum. What else is the point?

Agreed. Accuracy is important when discussing nutrition.

This is exactly the reason why we don't accept sloppy defined terms like clean and dirty.

[Strawng]

Yeah, that seems like a little bit of an overreaction. He made a universal claim, you demonstrate an exception even while agreeing generally, and then it suddenly becomes, "for ****'s sake," a debate about minutiae.

This is a nutrition forum. What else is the point?



You only just now mentioned simple sugars instead of fats. You started out saying that carbs, to use your words even the simplest, are almost always hard to go overboard with by themselves, yet now you're specifying simple carbs as an exception to this, and also to be fair you did just start a thread arguing that people who prefer them tend to be leaner anyway, as though even simple sugars really aren't that bad on the whole.

I have to agree with what you're saying about fats, it's just that it's pretty clear that you're "team carb" and didn't want to admit that there was an exception with them.

I’m not “team carb”, I was making a point against being “anti carb”. I was trying to articulate the idea that demonizing “fats” or “carbs” is shortsighted because the main issue with regards to excess fat gain is the hyperpalatable combination of the two & processed foods in general. People ain’t fat because of white rice & they ain’t fat because of steak. I would waste away if all I ate were fats. Keto works for plenty of people. I obviously failed to articulate my point.

[AdamWW]

Why? You asked for feedback, you got it.

I'm curious, do you agree that the sugars and oil do not need to be refined?

When did I ask for feedback?

[Strawng]

When did I ask for feedback?

Chiiiiiiit! People are out for blood today. What’s with all the Jimmie rustling ITT? There must be something in the air...

[Tommy W.]

it always goes south with these posts. This forum is basically for the "I can't lose fat" newbies. These newer members read these posts and just go "F it" I'll stay fat if this is an indication of what it takes to get leaner. And weren't we talking about steak?

[AdamWW]

Chiiiiiiit! People are out for blood today. What’s with all the Jimmie rustling ITT? There must be something in the air...

forum banter is the best

[Tommy W.]

forum banter is the best

It keeps me alive

[AdamWW]

It keeps me alive

it's especially fun when people think you're upset/serious and you're not.

fun times. fun times.

I need to troll the misc or something.

[Xpiro]

Ugh, that's the dream. But so is money. Sigh.

[Tommy W.]

I just want cake

[EliKoehn]

it always goes south with these posts. This forum is basically for the "I can't lose fat" newbies. These newer members read these posts and just go "F it" I'll stay fat if this is an indication of what it takes to get leaner. And weren't we talking about steak?

Except that's not how this conversation transpired at all lol? Nobody who disagreed was trying to make an allowance for anything, and in fact the point of contention was that fat isn't the only thing to blame in this otherwise endless plain carb spree.

You say this forum is for newbies who can't lose fat. This may be somewhat confrontational, but nevertheless fair to say if you're going to disparage those asking questions about this as attempting to avoid improvement without addressing what they're saying, how many of you elites have managed to become lean at a weight above 200 pounds? Probably no one who has posted in this thread and precious few on this forum overall.

Being shredded at all is impressive and worthy of respect, but what about the other half of the so-called "body building" game where you're trying to build a bigger frame than a high schooler? I would hope no one goes around calling people newbies for failing to achieve that after several years. I certainly wouldn't.

[AdamWW]

Except that's not how this conversation transpired at all lol? Nobody who disagreed was trying to make an allowance for anything, and in fact the point of contention was that fat isn't the only thing to blame in this otherwise endless plain carb spree.

You say this forum is for newbies who can't lose fat. This may be somewhat confrontational, but nevertheless fair to say if you're going to disparage those asking questions about this as attempting to avoid improvement without addressing what they're saying, how many of you elites have managed to become lean at a weight above 200 pounds? Probably no one who has posted in this thread and precious few on this forum overall.

Being shredded at all is impressive and worthy of respect, but what about the other half of the so-called "body building" game where you're trying to build a bigger frame than a high schooler? I would hope no one goes around calling people newbies for failing to achieve that after several years. I certainly wouldn't.

Well, being lean (15% or lower) at 200lb is extremely unlikely naturally if you’re not very advanced and at least 6 feet tall... so...

[Strawng]

We’ll, being lean (15% or lower) at 200lb is extremely unlikely naturally if you’re not very advanced and at least 6 feet tall... so...

This. Since everyone's still arguing bullchit in this thread, a man of average height (5 foot 10 here in the USA) at a very reasonably lean 13% body fat would have a FFMI of over 25. This is generally considered the natty limit, so few if any people would ever achieve these stats even with the best possible genetics/nutrition/training. Also, regardless, being big and lean does not an expert make. I'd much rather take my nutrition advice from Alan Aragon, Eric Helms, Brad Schoenfeld, & other experts in the field of natural bodybuilding and nutrition than IFBB pro Ronnie "I was 0.3% body fat" Coleman any day even though they all fail to reach the fabled 200 lb mark. Your physique =/= your knowledge of fitness.