https://www.epa.gov/enforcement/nati...es-and-engines
Any tune that disables O2 sensors is dead.
Super High flow cats or test pipes are gone.
Better hop in fast if you’re on the fence!
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08-21-2020, 02:48 PM #1
- Join Date: May 2007
- Location: Arizona, United States
- Posts: 15,162
- Rep Power: 62805
FYI: Aftermarket Tuning is now DEAD
Misc Firearm Crew. 2nd Amendment cannot be Interpreted.
The right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.
2023 Goal: Continue triggering leftist R&P deranged posters and incels.
Never relax around joggers
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08-21-2020, 05:02 PM #2
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08-21-2020, 10:21 PM #3
"Illegally-modified vehicles and engines contribute substantial excess pollution that harms public health "
Yeah........or maybe you want cars to no longer be fun so we voluntarily give up the hobby.Eat in a deficit to lose weight.
Hit your protein and fat minimums to stay healthy and keep your gainz.
Lift heavy and do HIIT to look and feel awesome.
Use the internet to learn why you should do these things and how to do these things.
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08-21-2020, 11:06 PM #4
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08-22-2020, 05:59 AM #5
Hasn’t this been a thing for years? When I was young and more into cars you put on the stock exhaust to get an e check then put on the aftermarket one after.
Had a Buick GN that I eventually got collector plates for so I didn’t need a e check. Nothing better than hearing the turbo with an open downpipe.★ ★ ★ ★ ★ ★ ★ ★ ★ Browns
★ ★ ★ ★ ★ ★ ★ ★ Indians
★ ★ ★ ★ ★ ★ ★ Buckeyes
★ ★ ★ ★ ★ ★ Beer
★ ★ ★ ★ ★ Cavs
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08-22-2020, 06:14 AM #6
this is disgusting, this is a typical trick the media does when they want to be dishonest about something: Take something that is clearly measurable where there is clear data available, like emissions and ratio of tuned vehicles, and explain the effect without using any numbers at all but only using overly dramatic language.
Im glad my tax dollars at the EPA are spent telling us about the dangers of the 0.000001% in increased emissions on the planet from tuned vehicles in the US when every city in every 3rd world chithole is full of two stroke mopeds.
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08-22-2020, 08:14 AM #7
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08-22-2020, 08:22 AM #8
For year it has been illegal to modify your exhaust in at way in MA. It is only a matter of time before our hobby is gone for good, at least in its current form.
I've been talking about compromises for a while. We should have a list ready so we get to keep at least some of what makes cars cool.Eat in a deficit to lose weight.
Hit your protein and fat minimums to stay healthy and keep your gainz.
Lift heavy and do HIIT to look and feel awesome.
Use the internet to learn why you should do these things and how to do these things.
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08-22-2020, 09:04 AM #9
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08-22-2020, 10:44 AM #10
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08-22-2020, 12:25 PM #11
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08-23-2020, 09:26 AM #12
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08-23-2020, 04:09 PM #13
The aftermarket does not contribute anything that would be evident outside the margin of error.
One of the other reasons they are going after the after market is that it allows people to build a car so cool there is little interest in buy a new car that is kind of lame in a lot of ways.
For example European cars are coming with a new soft limiter that prevents you from hearing what the exhaust actually sounds like. Every performance car will sound like crap soon enough.Eat in a deficit to lose weight.
Hit your protein and fat minimums to stay healthy and keep your gainz.
Lift heavy and do HIIT to look and feel awesome.
Use the internet to learn why you should do these things and how to do these things.
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08-23-2020, 07:43 PM #14
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08-23-2020, 07:51 PM #15
I thought the same thing at first, they want everything though
“ This NCI will focus on stopping the manufacture, sale, and installation of defeat devices on vehicles and engines used on public roads as well as on nonroad vehicles and engines.”
If they go after kit cars, dirt bikes, side by sides, quads, etc wtf
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08-23-2020, 08:01 PM #16
I like the way you think . I wish I held on to my 78 TA. Sold it approx 5 years ago
Heres an old pic from 86 when I had my 81 Z28 . Had the factory 4speed, and was a rush to drive .
My brother in-law was trying to sell me his 383 stroker . He had it in his racing boat and was dynoed just under 800 hp .
He was going to put it in my sisters 79 Z28 , but I don’t think it ever happened
Make Misc great again
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08-23-2020, 08:05 PM #17
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08-23-2020, 08:09 PM #18
This is what they did to 2stroke snowmobiles in Yellowstone. They waited for a day with no wind and a lot of people starting their sleds in the parking lot to test the air for "Emissions" then feigned shock at how bad the air quality was. These are the same people trying to convince you that global warming means you shouldn't be able to enjoy your life while they all take their private jets to Switzerland to circlejerk how bad global warming is. Straight kents the lot of them. Same people that think snowmobiles should be banned from the back country entirely because they damage fragile ecosystems (that are buried under 6-10+ feet of snow) and somehow harass wildlife that have already migrated down to lower altitudes prior to major snowfall.
Fitness connoisseur
0.4 mg of party's over wake the FK up!
"the personification of greatness"
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08-24-2020, 06:52 AM #19
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08-24-2020, 07:03 AM #20
yes, this is a joke and the not only that but highly political. The tricks they use are:
- claim its not political when they are talking about laws and money changing hands
- claim its based on "science" but provide no numbers, no evidence and only dramatic descriptions
- ignore higher sources of pollution that the rich and powerful use
- ignore higher sources of pollution in other countries as if the atmosphere is segregated by country and not all one atmosphere
- pass laws and government spending to the benefit of new car companies which have massive control over the politicians
- pass laws like cash for clunkers which ignore the emissions made for the production of every car, encourage forced obsolescence
To get the real numbers you would need:
- take total number of modded cars, take their emissions levels at tuned and subtract out their stock emissions levels. Also account for the tunes that are non linear in emissions and probably change little in day to day driving and only increase emissions at higher rpm or open throttles. You would be looking at negligible differences outside the margins of error, so little that the money spent towards enforcement of this law would be better used elsewhere.
- EPA should be forced to report the emissions lowered per dollar spent on each program, hold them accountable like they want to hold everyone (except the uber rich on private jets) accountable. This tuner program would never make the cut and be shown to be a poor use of resources and tax dollars by the EPA.
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08-24-2020, 07:07 AM #21
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08-24-2020, 08:39 AM #22
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08-24-2020, 09:23 AM #23
- Join Date: May 2009
- Location: Chicago, Illinois, United States
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08-24-2020, 12:35 PM #24
- Join Date: Aug 2010
- Location: State / Province, Canada
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- Rep Power: 52651
that's not even big of loss.
whats actually big loss is that basically every dealer has software that will detect any kind of ecu tampering and void your warranty.
for example you buy 435i get aftermarket ecu tune gain 100 whp for $500.
bring it to dealer for any kind of maintenance they plug in computer find you flashed it
boom warranty gone.
bmw, audi, ford, mercedes, vw etc will all void it instantly.
just search it up.
days of buying cheap turbo car putting ecu tune gaining 100-200hp are gone.
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08-24-2020, 01:54 PM #25
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08-24-2020, 03:24 PM #26
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08-24-2020, 03:28 PM #27
- Join Date: May 2007
- Location: Arizona, United States
- Posts: 15,162
- Rep Power: 62805
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08-24-2020, 03:47 PM #28
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08-24-2020, 07:03 PM #29
This is 100% a myth and not true. The Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act prohibits manufacturers from blanketly voiding warranties because of an ECU flash and places a burden on the dealer to prove the aftermarket part or tune caused the failure.
A good example is the 2013-2014 Viper which had huge issues with engine failure due to spun main bearings which were caused by leftover material from the casting process in many cars. Say you're driving your Viper around and lose all oil pressure and the crank seizes. The dealer gets it, scans the ECU for codes and finds it has a tune. They cannot deny a replacement because the tune did not cause the failure.
Now, if you melt a piston in a late model turbo car because you tuned it to run extremely lean and way more boost than stock, you'll have an issue- BUT the dealer/manufacturer still has the burden of proving the failure was caused by the modification.
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08-25-2020, 05:49 AM #30
It's not 100% myth...there's some truth to what he said. And good luck using Magnuson-Moss Warranty act argument at a dealer.
But back to main topic...tunes that disabled emission related equipment have technically been illegal under a federal law for a long time. Only difference is now a few companies got caught. I do not like them trying to regulate cars that won't be street driven. And you can bet a lot of this is being pushed by car manufacturers.Don't hit at all if it is honorably possible to avoid hitting; but never hit softly.
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