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  1. #1
    Pronoun: Phaggot/Genius backinbusiness's Avatar
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    FYI: Aftermarket Tuning is now DEAD

    https://www.epa.gov/enforcement/nati...es-and-engines

    Any tune that disables O2 sensors is dead.
    Super High flow cats or test pipes are gone.

    Better hop in fast if you’re on the fence!
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  2. #2
    rapscallion gluon's Avatar
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    good for you EPA, solving the problems that really matter, some might say its a waste of resources, that aftermarket tuned cars that represent less than .000000000000000000000000000000001% of harmful emissions. but i say good job, no one should be able to have fun on your watch.
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  3. #3
    Registered User nosirrahx's Avatar
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    "Illegally-modified vehicles and engines contribute substantial excess pollution that harms public health "

    Yeah........or maybe you want cars to no longer be fun so we voluntarily give up the hobby.
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  4. #4
    Banned luckyboy23's Avatar
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    Meh, there will always be tunes, high flow cats and test pipes. Nothing more than a bluff.
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    Hasn’t this been a thing for years? When I was young and more into cars you put on the stock exhaust to get an e check then put on the aftermarket one after.

    Had a Buick GN that I eventually got collector plates for so I didn’t need a e check. Nothing better than hearing the turbo with an open downpipe.
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  6. #6
    Black Lives Matter elterrible987's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by nosirrahx View Post
    "Illegally-modified vehicles and engines contribute substantial excess pollution that harms public health "

    Yeah........or maybe you want cars to no longer be fun so we voluntarily give up the hobby.



    this is disgusting, this is a typical trick the media does when they want to be dishonest about something: Take something that is clearly measurable where there is clear data available, like emissions and ratio of tuned vehicles, and explain the effect without using any numbers at all but only using overly dramatic language.

    Im glad my tax dollars at the EPA are spent telling us about the dangers of the 0.000001% in increased emissions on the planet from tuned vehicles in the US when every city in every 3rd world chithole is full of two stroke mopeds.
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  7. #7
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    i thought these lame laws were reserved to european countries
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  8. #8
    Registered User nosirrahx's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by McLarenGTR View Post
    i thought these lame laws were reserved to european countries
    For year it has been illegal to modify your exhaust in at way in MA. It is only a matter of time before our hobby is gone for good, at least in its current form.

    I've been talking about compromises for a while. We should have a list ready so we get to keep at least some of what makes cars cool.
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  9. #9
    Registered User knightofday's Avatar
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    Federal regulations are designed to kill fun and livelihood, **** the EPA commies srs
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  10. #10
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    that feel when my 79 camaro is too old for any test, so I can build a 565 big block for it

    Top kek at modern cars and the government
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  11. #11
    Registered User blazenbb's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by nosirrahx View Post
    Yeah........or maybe you want cars to no longer be fun so we voluntarily give up the hobby.
    I don’t doubt you, but why would they want this?

    They did it in ca around 8 years ago for motorcycles
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  12. #12
    rapscallion gluon's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by elterrible987 View Post
    this is disgusting, this is a typical trick the media does when they want to be dishonest about something: Take something that is clearly measurable where there is clear data available, like emissions and ratio of tuned vehicles, and explain the effect without using any numbers at all but only using overly dramatic language.

    Im glad my tax dollars at the EPA are spent telling us about the dangers of the 0.000001% in increased emissions on the planet from tuned vehicles in the US when every city in every 3rd world chithole is full of two stroke mopeds.
    yea just one cargo ship sailing across Atlantic produces more emissions than every single modified car in the US prob per year. The % of emissions they are going after is infinitesimally small, id estimate in the trillionths of a %.
    fkin absurd
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  13. #13
    Registered User nosirrahx's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by gluon View Post
    yea just one cargo ship sailing across Atlantic produces more emissions than every single modified car in the US prob per year. The % of emissions they are going after is infinitesimally small, id estimate in the trillionths of a %.
    fkin absurd
    The aftermarket does not contribute anything that would be evident outside the margin of error.

    One of the other reasons they are going after the after market is that it allows people to build a car so cool there is little interest in buy a new car that is kind of lame in a lot of ways.

    For example European cars are coming with a new soft limiter that prevents you from hearing what the exhaust actually sounds like. Every performance car will sound like crap soon enough.
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  14. #14
    Registered User mingrey02stg2's Avatar
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    "This product is for off-road use only."

    Done.
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    Registered User blazenbb's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by mingrey02stg2 View Post
    "This product is for off-road use only."

    Done.
    I thought the same thing at first, they want everything though

    “ This NCI will focus on stopping the manufacture, sale, and installation of defeat devices on vehicles and engines used on public roads as well as on nonroad vehicles and engines.”

    If they go after kit cars, dirt bikes, side by sides, quads, etc wtf
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    Age 62 MajorTendonitis's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ClivesTriceps View Post
    that feel when my 79 camaro is too old for any test, so I can build a 565 big block for it

    Top kek at modern cars and the government
    I like the way you think . I wish I held on to my 78 TA. Sold it approx 5 years ago




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    He was going to put it in my sisters 79 Z28 , but I don’t think it ever happened

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  17. #17
    It's not the gun, stupid. Ikeman83's Avatar
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    What part of "Shall Not Be Infringed" are you having trouble with?

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    Originally Posted by elterrible987 View Post
    this is disgusting, this is a typical trick the media does when they want to be dishonest about something: Take something that is clearly measurable where there is clear data available, like emissions and ratio of tuned vehicles, and explain the effect without using any numbers at all but only using overly dramatic language.

    Im glad my tax dollars at the EPA are spent telling us about the dangers of the 0.000001% in increased emissions on the planet from tuned vehicles in the US when every city in every 3rd world chithole is full of two stroke mopeds.
    This is what they did to 2stroke snowmobiles in Yellowstone. They waited for a day with no wind and a lot of people starting their sleds in the parking lot to test the air for "Emissions" then feigned shock at how bad the air quality was. These are the same people trying to convince you that global warming means you shouldn't be able to enjoy your life while they all take their private jets to Switzerland to circlejerk how bad global warming is. Straight kents the lot of them. Same people that think snowmobiles should be banned from the back country entirely because they damage fragile ecosystems (that are buried under 6-10+ feet of snow) and somehow harass wildlife that have already migrated down to lower altitudes prior to major snowfall.
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    Registered User IAMBEE's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by McLarenGTR View Post
    i thought these lame laws were reserved to european countries
    European countries = Blue states.
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  20. #20
    Black Lives Matter elterrible987's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by gluon View Post
    yea just one cargo ship sailing across Atlantic produces more emissions than every single modified car in the US prob per year. The % of emissions they are going after is infinitesimally small, id estimate in the trillionths of a %.
    fkin absurd

    yes, this is a joke and the not only that but highly political. The tricks they use are:

    - claim its not political when they are talking about laws and money changing hands

    - claim its based on "science" but provide no numbers, no evidence and only dramatic descriptions

    - ignore higher sources of pollution that the rich and powerful use

    - ignore higher sources of pollution in other countries as if the atmosphere is segregated by country and not all one atmosphere

    - pass laws and government spending to the benefit of new car companies which have massive control over the politicians

    - pass laws like cash for clunkers which ignore the emissions made for the production of every car, encourage forced obsolescence



    To get the real numbers you would need:

    - take total number of modded cars, take their emissions levels at tuned and subtract out their stock emissions levels. Also account for the tunes that are non linear in emissions and probably change little in day to day driving and only increase emissions at higher rpm or open throttles. You would be looking at negligible differences outside the margins of error, so little that the money spent towards enforcement of this law would be better used elsewhere.

    - EPA should be forced to report the emissions lowered per dollar spent on each program, hold them accountable like they want to hold everyone (except the uber rich on private jets) accountable. This tuner program would never make the cut and be shown to be a poor use of resources and tax dollars by the EPA.
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  21. #21
    Black Lives Matter elterrible987's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by RobParks2M View Post
    This is what they did to 2stroke snowmobiles in Yellowstone. They waited for a day with no wind and a lot of people starting their sleds in the parking lot to test the air for "Emissions" then feigned shock at how bad the air quality was. These are the same people trying to convince you that global warming means you shouldn't be able to enjoy your life while they all take their private jets to Switzerland to circlejerk how bad global warming is. Straight kents the lot of them. Same people that think snowmobiles should be banned from the back country entirely because they damage fragile ecosystems (that are buried under 6-10+ feet of snow) and somehow harass wildlife that have already migrated down to lower altitudes prior to major snowfall.

    Because we cannot dedicate infinite resources to emissions, the EPA should be required to report and justify each program by the emissions reduces per dollar spent by the EPA. Then we wont have stupid ideas like going after snow mobiles.
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    This is just the start. It won't be long until they turn their attention to water focused reg's to control micro plastic pollution from tires.
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    Originally Posted by backinbusiness View Post
    https://www.epa.gov/enforcement/nati...es-and-engines

    Any tune that disables O2 sensors is dead.
    Super High flow cats or test pipes are gone.

    Better hop in fast if you’re on the fence!


    How is tuning dead? You can run 1000hp+ cars with cats still functioning. You're going to need turbo/superchargers now to make big power but it's not the end of tuning.
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    Rubber Banding Carbonfibre's Avatar
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    that's not even big of loss.


    whats actually big loss is that basically every dealer has software that will detect any kind of ecu tampering and void your warranty.



    for example you buy 435i get aftermarket ecu tune gain 100 whp for $500.


    bring it to dealer for any kind of maintenance they plug in computer find you flashed it


    boom warranty gone.


    bmw, audi, ford, mercedes, vw etc will all void it instantly.

    just search it up.


    days of buying cheap turbo car putting ecu tune gaining 100-200hp are gone.
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    Registered User nosirrahx's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Carbonfibre View Post
    that's not even big of loss.


    whats actually big loss is that basically every dealer has software that will detect any kind of ecu tampering and void your warranty.



    for example you buy 435i get aftermarket ecu tune gain 100 whp for $500.


    bring it to dealer for any kind of maintenance they plug in computer find you flashed it


    boom warranty gone.


    bmw, audi, ford, mercedes, vw etc will all void it instantly.

    just search it up.


    days of buying cheap turbo car putting ecu tune gaining 100-200hp are gone.
    I think you are completely missing the point. Needing to pay to play has been a thing for quite some time. Losing the ability to play at all is a completely different and far worse problem.
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    Originally Posted by nosirrahx View Post
    I think you are completely missing the point. Needing to pay to play has been a thing for quite some time. Losing the ability to play at all is a completely different and far worse problem.
    hah this. guys will mod their cars and get them to 2x+ the standard power from the factory, grenade the engine, and then expect the manufacturer to cover it...
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    Originally Posted by mingrey02stg2 View Post
    "This product is for off-road use only."

    Done.
    Nope APR used this angle for years, they are no longer offering any tune that programs our emissions equipment or any downpipes as they got hit.
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    They strictly want to dismantle ALL MOTORSPORTS and that is NOT their authority, period. They do not have the legal right to do that.

    This is why people vote against big government.
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    Originally Posted by Carbonfibre View Post
    that's not even big of loss.

    whats actually big loss is that basically every dealer has software that will detect any kind of ecu tampering and void your warranty.

    for example you buy 435i get aftermarket ecu tune gain 100 whp for $500.

    bring it to dealer for any kind of maintenance they plug in computer find you flashed it

    boom warranty gone.

    bmw, audi, ford, mercedes, vw etc will all void it instantly.

    just search it up.

    days of buying cheap turbo car putting ecu tune gaining 100-200hp are gone.
    This is 100% a myth and not true. The Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act prohibits manufacturers from blanketly voiding warranties because of an ECU flash and places a burden on the dealer to prove the aftermarket part or tune caused the failure.

    A good example is the 2013-2014 Viper which had huge issues with engine failure due to spun main bearings which were caused by leftover material from the casting process in many cars. Say you're driving your Viper around and lose all oil pressure and the crank seizes. The dealer gets it, scans the ECU for codes and finds it has a tune. They cannot deny a replacement because the tune did not cause the failure.

    Now, if you melt a piston in a late model turbo car because you tuned it to run extremely lean and way more boost than stock, you'll have an issue- BUT the dealer/manufacturer still has the burden of proving the failure was caused by the modification.
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    Originally Posted by mingrey02stg2 View Post
    This is 100% a myth and not true. The Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act prohibits manufacturers from blanketly voiding warranties because of an ECU flash and places a burden on the dealer to prove the aftermarket part or tune caused the failure.
    It's not 100% myth...there's some truth to what he said. And good luck using Magnuson-Moss Warranty act argument at a dealer.


    But back to main topic...tunes that disabled emission related equipment have technically been illegal under a federal law for a long time. Only difference is now a few companies got caught. I do not like them trying to regulate cars that won't be street driven. And you can bet a lot of this is being pushed by car manufacturers.
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