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  1. #7411
    Registered User entropy91's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by BetaAsPhuck View Post
    I don't get the anti-Bitcoin fork mindset.

    OK, I can't argue against it though, because I would have to try to persuade you to abandon crypto tribalism.



    Gold backed currencies put a physical cap on inflation. Currently there is no cap on inflation other than banker's analysis/minds.

    Gold as a store of value is simply used for storing fiat currency value against inflation, and getting fiat currency when you sell the gold, to spend in the traditional financial system. It's an alternative savings account, it's used to maintain financial standing within the traditional financial system (store of value) not to challenge it.



    How does that challenge the financial system?

    Currency is used to finance our corrupt political system, wars, intelligence services, etc, and it's controlled by central banks. So how does Gold being a store of value challenge any of that.

    A decentralized currency does, because it's not controlled by central banks, and it's used to pay for good and services, borrowing and lending, etc. Currency usage directs resources within a society. Gold is just a store of value.
    "I don't get the anti-Bitcoin fork mindset.

    OK, I can't argue against it though, because I would have to try to persuade you to abandon crypto tribalism."

    Nice strawman. Never once stated I was against the democratic process of forks. I pointed out the absolute incorrectness of you stating Bitcoin was capable of something it isn't.


    "Gold as a store of value is simply used for storing fiat currency value against inflation, and getting fiat currency when you sell the gold, to spend in the traditional financial system. It's an alternative savings account, it's used to maintain financial standing within the traditional financial system (store of value) not to challenge it."

    Your core argument is that because people are using fiat, gold isn't challenging the financial system. I literally just explained why in the previous post. Gold only has to wait out the inevitable collapse of fiat. Monetization isn't subject to the same valuations as equities. It has no ceiling.

    If people are using it to store their value, it is clearly viewed as the superior form of money.


    "A decentralized currency does, because it's not controlled by central banks, and it's used to pay for good and services, borrowing and lending, etc. Currency usage directs resources within a society. Gold is just a store of value."

    It is much more malleable because of it's digital nature and I would agree is a superior form of wealth storage/ currency.
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  2. #7412
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    Originally Posted by entropy91 View Post
    Bruh

    There's so much misinformation I don't even know where to begin. BTC chain blocksize is essentially 2MB with SegWit, not 1MB.
    They were talking about the limit at the time of the debate around block size. Which was some years ago.

    I'm not going to dive into conspiracy theories.
    No discussion can be had then.

    Because you are refusing to even look into the issues, you're not arguing against any of the points made.

    Which is shown because you then bring up Craig, who is nothing to do with the argument of if the state infiltrated BTC or not.

    Craig Wright has been claiming to be Satoshi for years and has tried to have the bitcoin whitepaper scrubbed from the internet. Why people still listen to him is beyond me. Seems to only be a few who are subject to cult like narratives.
    Neither one of those vids are centred around Craig. They give specific names of current and past companies and individuals.

    If you're not interested in discussing the issue, why did you reply to me? Srs question.
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  3. #7413
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    Originally Posted by BetaAsPhuck View Post
    They were talking about the limit at the time of the debate around block size. Which was some years ago.



    No discussion can be had then.

    Because you are refusing to even look into the issues, you're not arguing against any of the points made.

    Which is shown because you then bring up Craig, who is nothing to do with the argument of if the state infiltrated BTC or not.



    Neither one of those vids are centred around Craig. They give specific names of current and past companies and individuals.

    If you're not interested in discussing the issue, why did you reply to me? Srs question.
    I'm arguing about the tech and economics. Not tinfoil conspiracies.

    Lol what issues? No offense, but you don't seem to have a grasp on how Bitcoin even works.
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  4. #7414
    Wage Cuckin' It BetaAsPhuck's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by entropy91 View Post
    Nice strawman. Never once stated I was against the democratic process of forks. I pointed out the absolute incorrectness of you stating Bitcoin was capable of something it isn't.
    You said ' the only Bitcoin', when there's more than one crypto with the name and protocol of Bitcoin. That's what I meant by your 'anti-Bitcoin fork mindset', because you wouldn't even acknowledge the other cryptos with the name and protocol of Bitcoin.

    Your core argument is that because people are using fiat, gold isn't challenging the financial system. I literally just explained why in the previous post
    I didn't find it convincing, the financial system has carried on fine with Gold being used as a store of value around the world. It has changed nothing.

    In theory you may be right, in practice it has literally changed nothing.

    Gold only has to wait out the inevitable collapse of fiat.
    Maybe your prediction will never come true. The current dollar is being inflated to high heaven, and IMO 'the elite' know this can't last forever, hence why they have been researching since the 90s into creating a CBDC.

    Paper from the NSA: https://groups.csail.mit.edu/mac/cla...nt/nsamint.htm

    We are currently transiting to CBDCs, China have already began rolling out their own CBDC in 2020. IMO the transition will happen way before any fiat currency collapse. It's literally in the works right now.

    I don't know if you are aware, but even the BIS have publicly admitted that over 70% of central banks are researching into implementing a CBDC.

    https://www.ledgerinsights.com/bis-7...currency-cbdc/

    It is much more malleable because of it's digital nature and I would agree is a superior form of wealth storage/ currency.
    BTC isn't. It's slow and the transaction fees are high.

    In say developing nations, $5 transaction fees are a lot of money. IME people in developed nations tend to forget about the cost of living in developing nations.

    The 'solution' by Bitcoin supporters is lightning network, which can't scale (Kim DotCom literally tried to use it for his new project, and had to abandon it after 6 months of trying to scale it), and is argued by many to be centralized...


    https://www.coindesk.com/bitcoins-li...searchers-find

    https://iopscience.iop.org/article/1...67-2630/aba062
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  5. #7415
    Wage Cuckin' It BetaAsPhuck's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by entropy91 View Post
    I'm arguing about the tech and economics. Not tinfoil conspiracies.
    You've already made up your mind without research.

    No discussion can be had.

    Lol what issues?
    1) The issue of state and corporate subversion of Bitcoin.

    2) BTC blocksize limiting the ability of microtransactions.

    3) BTC block size limit no enabling DApps to be built on chain.

    (The kind of DApps I'm referring to are:


    Built directly on the Bitcoin Cash blockchain: https://memo.cash/

    Built directly on BSV blockchain and http://twetch.cash/ https://streamanity.com/ https://bit.sv/ https://add.bico.media/beta/ https://relica.world/ )

    4) The layer 2 solutions to microtransactions and smart contracts being centralized (e.g. lightning network).

    5) BTC being used as store of value not challenging the current financial system, which is more than just savings accounts. The current financial system is currency, savings, lending, borrowing, mortgages, cross border payments, etc. None of that can be built on-chain BTC now.
    Last edited by BetaAsPhuck; 03-01-2021 at 12:04 PM.
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  6. #7416
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    Originally Posted by BetaAsPhuck View Post
    You said ' the only Bitcoin', when there's more than one crypto with the name and protocol of Bitcoin. That's what I meant by your 'anti-Bitcoin fork mindset', because you wouldn't even acknowledge the other cryptos with the name and protocol of Bitcoin.



    I didn't find it convincing, the financial system has carried on fine with Gold being used as a store of value around the world. It has changed nothing.

    In theory you may be right, in practice it has literally changed nothing.



    Maybe your prediction will never come true. The current dollar is being inflated to high heaven, and IMO 'the elite' know this can't last forever, hence why they have been researching since the 90s into creating a CBDC.

    Paper from the NSA: https://groups.csail.mit.edu/mac/cla...nt/nsamint.htm

    We are currently transiting to CBDCs, China have already began rolling out their own CBDC in 2020. IMO the transition will happen way before any fiat currency collapse. It's literally in the works right now.

    I don't know if you are aware, but even the BIS have publicly admitted that over 70% of central banks are researching into implementing a CBDC.

    https://www.ledgerinsights.com/bis-7...currency-cbdc/



    BTC isn't. It's slow and the transaction fees are high.

    In say developing nations, $5 transaction fees are a lot of money. IME people in developed nations tend to forget about the cost of living in developing nations.

    The 'solution' by Bitcoin supporters is lightning network, which can't scale (Kim DotCom literally tried to use it for his new project, and had to abandon it after 6 months of trying to scale it), and is argued by many to be centralized...


    https://www.coindesk.com/bitcoins-li...searchers-find

    https://iopscience.iop.org/article/1...67-2630/aba062
    There is only one Bitcoin blockchain. That's why I said it, because it's factually correct. Do you understand how forks work? There aren't two identical Bitcoin blockchains. Don't conflate your ignorance with me being stubborn.

    I read that NSA paper years ago. Have you read it? It doesn't solve any problems. It's not secure. It's just a ****ty completely digital fiat currency.

    Lightning isn't "the solution". There are multiple solutions and proposals. The trilemma of blockchain is security, scalability and decentralization. Bitcoin sacrifices scalability for security and decentralization. Bcash sacrificed decentralization and security for scalability and it has failed.

    LOL

    https://cash.coin.dance/nodes
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  7. #7417
    Registered User entropy91's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by BetaAsPhuck View Post
    You're already made up your mind without research.

    No discussion can be had.



    The issue of state and corporate subversion of Bitcoin.

    BTC blocksize limiting the ability of microtransactions.

    BTC block size limit no enabling DApps to be built on chain.

    (The kind of DApps I'm referring to are:


    Built directly on the Bitcoin Cash blockchain: https://memo.cash/

    Built directly on BSV blockchain and http://twetch.cash/ https://streamanity.com/ https://bit.sv/ https://add.bico.media/beta/ https://relica.world/ )

    The layer 2 solutions being centralized.


    BTC being used as store of value not challenging the current financial system, which is more than just savings accounts. The current financial system is currency, savings, lending, borrowing, mortgages, cross border payments, etc. None of that can be built on-chain BTC now.
    I can't argue with you anymore friend. You have no idea what you're talking about.

    Exhibit A:

    "BTC blocksize limiting the ability of microtransactions."

    Microtransactions aren't handled on chain. Block size has no effect on the throughput of lightning network.

    Doesnโ€™t Lightning require bigger blocks anyway?
    Lightning is block-size neutral. It requires one on-chain transaction to open a channel between a hub and a client, and one on-chain transaction to close a channel.[59] In between it can support an unlimited number of transactions between anyone on the Lightning network.[62]
    https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Scalabili...htning_Network
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  8. #7418
    Wage Cuckin' It BetaAsPhuck's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by entropy91 View Post
    There is only one Bitcoin blockchain. That's why I said it, because it's factually correct. Do you understand how forks work? There aren't two identical Bitcoin blockchains. Don't conflate your ignorance with me being stubborn.
    Semantics, IMO.

    I never claimed they were identical. What I did say is they are using the Bitcoin protocol, and they have the Bitcoin name. That is literally what I said.

    I have no idea why you are being a dick, we are usually cool with one another.

    I read that NSA paper years ago. Have you read it? It doesn't solve any problems. It's not secure. It's just a ****ty completely digital fiat currency.
    What I wrote was this...

    hence why they have been researching since the 90s into creating a CBDC.

    I don't why you took me posting that in a different context.

    They are rolling out CBDCs, which will replace current fiat and before fiat will collapse. 'Digital Gold' will be to CBDCs what physical Gold is to current fiat, which was my original point. That's the main point.

    Lightning isn't "the solution".
    I've spoken and witnessed plenty of discussions with BTC maximalists, and whenever the issue of microtransactions and transaction fees are brought up they always bring up the Lightning Network.

    Maybe you have a different experience, however it's presented as the solution literally every single time I've seen the problems brought up. I've never known an exception.

    The trilemma of blockchain is security, scalability and decentralization. Bitcoin sacrifices scalability for security and decentralization. Bcash sacrificed decentralization and security for scalability and it has failed.
    This is not a Bitcoin vs Bitcoin Cash debate.

    I've said multiple times that I'm not tribalistic when it comes to crypto. I'm not looking it as Team vs Team.
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  9. #7419
    Wage Cuckin' It BetaAsPhuck's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by entropy91 View Post

    "BTC blocksize limiting the ability of microtransactions."

    Microtransactions aren't handled on chain.
    I'll explain with more clairity... I already said that transaction fees make it hard for people in developing nations to transact. At one point BTC transaction fees were $70.

    When people say 'microtransactions' they mean low amount transactions and low fees. BTC can't do that due to the block size. I don't think anyone would say otherwise.

    That's why they need to bring in Lightning Network. Unless you are claiming they do not need Lightning Network for microtransactions?

    Block size has no effect on the throughput of lightning network.
    Where did I say it did?

    Lightning Network is centralized. Like the research paper I posted says. You didn't address that.

    Kim DotCom also tried to scale it for 6 months on his current project, and it wouldn't work. Now he uses Bitcoin Cash and gets chit for it, even after explaining that he wanted to use the Lightning Network but it wouldn't work, and that he's hoping the tech improves in the future.
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  10. #7420
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    Originally Posted by Luc1fer View Post
    Need to break 52k to get out of the woods.
    Originally Posted by dunnie View Post
    yea for the 52k
    and On binance theres still a lot of buy order in the 40-45 k

    edit we could dick around 51xxx-45xxx for a while
    Annoying as fuk. I sold half my FTM position earlier today, and was feeling like a mature investor being 50% in cash to buy any extra dips but at this rate I doubt we even break 50k today let alone 52k. Might sell the rest of my FTM and rebuy the inevitable night time dip.

    My only reservation is that chinabros might wake up, and run BTC (and consequently alts) upward.
    Last edited by W1LLW; 03-01-2021 at 12:44 PM.
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    Originally Posted by mgftp View Post
    Alts are screaming up the charts right now. ICX, NEO, GAS, BNB, all greatly outpacing BTC ETH... CAKE up 40%, AUTO 50%, lol. Wish I had been farming more CAKE and AUTO.



    I think more and more people are shifting from viewing BTC as possible currency to more of a investment and store of value.
    Exactly what I mean.

    Bitcoin became what it was because people used it freely as a currency. If it increasingly becomes gobbled up by a handful of mega corps and used as a โ€œstore of valueโ€ what value does it really have?

    Iโ€™d say would this and bitcoins value would drop to nothing. But here we are living in a world where the government prints trillions in Monopoly money, hands it to businesses and they buy out all the real assets farms, businesses, patents etc
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    Originally Posted by W1LLW View Post
    Annoying as fuk. I sold half my FTM position earlier today, and was feeling like a mature investor being 50% in cash to buy any extra dips but at this rate I doubt we even break 50k today let alone 52k. Might sell the rest of my FTM and rebuy the inevitable night time dip.
    sadface XLM doing fuk all as well. I can feel the dip coming.


    edit: we got a strong candle coming in. Come on crypto boyos. Break 50k
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  13. #7423
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    Flowbrah is euphoric right now. Weird how it waits until dip is over to moon when it was doing same volume as before. Now sanded to see if OMI brahs were right. That one is already up massively on the year though.
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  14. #7424
    Registered User BestAdc's Avatar
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    Aus brahs best place to buy BTC, gonna load up fuarkkk
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  15. #7425
    Registered User manletofpeace's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by BestAdc View Post
    Aus brahs best place to buy BTC, gonna load up fuarkkk
    I use binance in Aus and have had no issues
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  16. #7426
    Registered User jay1MR's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by BestAdc View Post
    Aus brahs best place to buy BTC, gonna load up fuarkkk
    Just use binance or any website. You don't have to worry AFAIK
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  17. #7427
    True Patriot Crew ~Hades~'s Avatar
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    Whatโ€™s ada gonna do?
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  18. #7428
    unbanned dunnie's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ~Hades~ View Post
    Whatโ€™s ada gonna do?
    this man.... really tempted to go balls deep in it

    and eth , YOU GO GIRL !!!
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  19. #7429
    True Patriot Crew ~Hades~'s Avatar
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    Originally Posted by dunnie View Post
    this man.... really tempted to go balls deep in it

    and eth , YOU GO GIRL !!!

    It held fairly well thru the dip so I expected it to take off today like everything else
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  20. #7430
    The elusive one TakeTheLift's Avatar
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    Imagine if the correction to BTC isnt over and we are about to dead cat bounce even lower.
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  21. #7431
    unbanned dunnie's Avatar
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    what price target you guys have set to buy back btc and eth ?

    Originally Posted by TakeTheLift View Post
    Imagine if the correction to BTC isnt over and we are about to dead cat bounce even lower.
    this is still well in the cards, but theres still daily moves too pull through which ever way it goes
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  22. #7432
    Registered User mcdojo's Avatar
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    WhaleShark.Pro one of the whales controlling the eth NFT market (he just bought a 3Lau NFT for $3.5mil), had this to say about Flow:

    "Best thing for NFTs (and more) since the @ethereum mainnet." https://twitter.com/WhaleShark_Pro/s...66499171016710

    This kills the ethereum

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  23. #7433
    17 1 surf junkie's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by mcdojo View Post
    WhaleShark.Pro one of the whales controlling the eth NFT market (he just bought a 3Lau NFT for $3.5mil), had this to say about Flow:

    "Best thing for NFTs (and more) since the @ethereum mainnet." https://twitter.com/WhaleShark_Pro/s...66499171016710

    This kills the ethereum

    tl;dr he wants to dump and needs more buy volume to not tank the price while dumping.
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  24. #7434
    Banned Gringo12's Avatar
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    Kevin o Leary just allocated 3% of his portfolio into btc after years of shtting on it lol
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  25. #7435
    Registered User goonsondeck's Avatar
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    good source for NFTs?
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  26. #7436
    Registered User mcdojo's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by surf junkie View Post
    tl;dr he wants to dump and needs more buy volume to not tank the price while dumping.
    Cope. Largest crypto asset manager considering adding Flow. Only ICO'd in October 2020 and already has this much recognition damnnn.






































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  27. #7437
    Registered User moosik85's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by dunnie View Post
    this man.... really tempted to go balls deep in it

    and eth , YOU GO GIRL !!!
    Wouldnโ€™t go balls deep in ada unless it has a decent dip. Not saying itโ€™s over priced but the risk reward isnโ€™t worth it atm
    The most expensive thing a man can gain is wisdom
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  28. #7438
    Registered User RightOnSchedule's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by goonsondeck View Post
    good source for NFTs?
    Follow https://twitter.com/gmoneyNFT
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  29. #7439
    Registered User entropy91's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by mcdojo View Post
    Cope. Largest crypto asset manager considering adding Flow. Only ICO'd in October 2020 and already has this much recognition damnnn.






































    Circulating Supply 23,301,002 FLOW
    Total Supply 1,338,178,865 FLOW

    ****ing LOL
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  30. #7440
    ๐Ÿ…ณ๐Ÿ…ฐ๐Ÿ†‚ ๐Ÿ…ธ๐Ÿ†ƒ Luc1fer's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Gringo12 View Post
    Kevin o Leary just allocated 3% of his portfolio into btc after years of shtting on it lol
    15% crypto crew (it was 5 lmao)
    ๐•ฎ๐–๐–†๐–˜๐–Š ๐–† ๐–ˆ๐–๐–Š๐–ˆ๐•ถ, ๐–“๐–Š๐–›๐–Š๐–— ๐–ˆ๐–๐–†๐–˜๐–Š ๐–† ๐–‡๐–Ž๐–™๐–ˆ๐–
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