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  1. #1
    Registered User gainsgoblin's Avatar
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    Afraid of losing gains when I cut, is it worth it right now?

    I've been lifting for the past 8 years or so with the same bullchit level consistency throughout- brosplit, ego lifting, never tracked my stats or nutrition/macros, mostly just did it to avoid cardio. Since May I started taking my lifting a lot more seriously. I'm on a 6x/week PPL split and I've been seeing some weight loss and massive progress strength-wise. Problem is I'm fat as chit and I don't want to lose too much strength when I cut when I'm making progress like this. I have no idea what my activity levels are but whenever I cut I end up overdoing it and losing a ton of weight and strength. My hunger signals are completely F'd. What do you guys think I should do? Just trying not to look like a skelly.

    Current stats:
    5'7" (so 5'6") manlet
    180lbs
    Bench 225 x 8 (working sets)
    Squat 275 x 5 (working sets)
    Dead 4plate
    OHP 1plate

    Dead and OHP based on the last time I maxed in January. Bench and squat improved too quick to tell my new 1RM, but I started off benching 185 x 8 and squatting 235 x 5 in June.
    Last edited by gainsgoblin; 08-13-2020 at 07:29 PM.
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  2. #2
    Registered User OriginalWear's Avatar
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    Just go into a moderate deficit like 200-500 only, and start tracking calories seriously if you wanna maintain the strength, build muscle mass and lose fat at the same time. This will take a lot of trial and error I tell you. Besides, you shouldn't be maxing out so often also going for 5x a week will work in your favor when you're in a deficit. Just lose at least 1% of your bf a week or in 2 weeks if that's what you want, then when you hit a BF% you like go into your maintenance calories and keep working from there
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  3. #3
    Registered User gainsgoblin's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by OriginalWear View Post
    Just go into a moderate deficit like 200-500 only, and start tracking calories seriously if you wanna maintain the strength, build muscle mass and lose fat at the same time. This will take a lot of trial and error I tell you. Besides, you shouldn't be maxing out so often also going for 5x a week will work in your favor when you're in a deficit. Just lose at least 1% of your bf a week or in 2 weeks if that's what you want, then when you hit a BF% you like go into your maintenance calories and keep working from there
    I think you misunderstood something- I hardly ever max. The only time I tested my 1RMs recently was back in January so for bench and squat I just put my last weight used for working sets (generally at RPE 8 or 9, 3-5 sets depending on the lift). Also, from what I understand body recomposition is nearly impossible unless you're a beginner or detrained. I'm worried about my overall progression suffering too heavily from the cut, and looking too DYEL post-cut.
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  4. #4
    I'm huge in Japan! xsquid99's Avatar
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    Maybe you should take a long, hard look at why you’re doing what you’re doing. What are your long term goals? My thoughts are that my health should always be my #1 priority, and for that it means having a healthy, sustainable bodyfat level somewhere in the 12-20% range. After all, nobody walks around with their lifting numbers pinned to their shirt like a nametag, and I would much rather have the “fit look” than worry about how much many times I can bench 225.

    But hey, everyone is different. Some people like to get huge and they’re into strongman competitions, some people like the “skinny ripped” look. It all depends on you, and remember goals can definitely change over time.

    Figure out what you want, and do things in support of that goal.
    All it takes is consistency, effort, proper nutrition, good programming, and TIME.
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  5. #5
    Registered User gainsgoblin's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by xsquid99 View Post
    Maybe you should take a long, hard look at why you’re doing what you’re doing. What are your long term goals? My thoughts are that my health should always be my #1 priority, and for that it means having a healthy, sustainable bodyfat level somewhere in the 12-20% range. After all, nobody walks around with their lifting numbers pinned to their shirt like a nametag, and I would much rather have the “fit look” than worry about how much many times I can bench 225.

    But hey, everyone is different. Some people like to get huge and they’re into strongman competitions, some people like the “skinny ripped” look. It all depends on you, and remember goals can definitely change over time.

    Figure out what you want, and do things in support of that goal.
    My endgoal is to have a respectable natty physique within a year or two. I don't know whether I would reach that goal more effectively by cutting to 12-15% first or continuing to do what I'm doing until my lifting progress begins to stall and cutting from there. I'm never going to stop lifting, even at my laziest I was still going to the gym and still maintaining my stats, but I'll feel dejected if I focus on cutting and end up looking too skinny (or worse, if I finish my cut and don't see the same weightlifting progress post-cut that I've been seeing pre-cut).
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    There is no reason to worry about losing gains during a cut if you keep weight training, only attempt a reasonable deficit (lose no more than 1% per week) and get enough protein.

    Sometime people panic because they feel a little weaker (from less energy) or look a little flatter (from lower glycogen). You will also lose fat from your limbs so your measurements may decrease too.

    Maybe you won't make it all the way down to a lean state in 1 cut phase but that doesn't mean it's not worth doing, it's steps in the right direction.
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  7. #7
    Registered User CommitmentRulz's Avatar
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    Your call, but...

    You say you don't want to go into the DYEL area post cut. However, you say you're FAT now. You may already be in the DYEL category and just look fat...
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  8. #8
    Registered User Luclin999's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by gainsgoblin View Post
    My endgoal is to have a respectable natty physique within a year or two. I don't know whether I would reach that goal more effectively by cutting to 12-15% first or continuing to do what I'm doing until my lifting progress begins to stall and cutting from there. I'm never going to stop lifting, even at my laziest I was still going to the gym and still maintaining my stats, but I'll feel dejected if I focus on cutting and end up looking too skinny (or worse, if I finish my cut and don't see the same weightlifting progress post-cut that I've been seeing pre-cut).
    Personally, I'd rather look "Skinny, but athletic" vs. "Strong, but fat".

    Also keep in mind that studies have shown that it is far easier to recover "lost" muscle than it is to gain it in the first place, so even if you did lose some lean mass from dropping to a lower BF level it would be fairly easy to get it back in just a month or two of work in the gym after you return to eating at maintenance +a slight (150-200 cal/day) surplus.
    ~ Like Tae-Kwon-Leap, my goals are not a path to a door, but a road leading forever towards the horizon.
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  9. #9
    Registered User gainsgoblin's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by CommitmentRulz View Post
    Your call, but...

    You say you don't want to go into the DYEL area post cut. However, you say you're FAT now. You may already be in the DYEL category and just look fat...
    That's exactly what I'm trying to say. I don't know if I'm DYEL underneath all this fat and I don't want to go on a massive cut if the end result is going to be looking skelly. Would rather keep getting stronger until I have a better physique underneath and then do a cut since I have to cut a **** ton either way. But if I'd look aesthetic now (minus the fat), I'd be more than dedicated to losing the weight.
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  10. #10
    Registered User gainsgoblin's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Luclin999 View Post
    Personally, I'd rather look "Skinny, but athletic" vs. "Strong, but fat".

    Also keep in mind that studies have shown that it is far easier to recover "lost" muscle than it is to gain it in the first place, so even if you did lose some lean mass from dropping to a lower BF level it would be fairly easy to get it back in just a month or two of work in the gym after you return to eating at maintenance +a slight (150-200 cal/day) surplus.
    Gonna have to cut either way, strong and fat wasn't an option. It's get stronger then get lean vs. get lean then get stronger.
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  11. #11
    Registered User Luclin999's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by gainsgoblin View Post
    Gonna have to cut either way, strong and fat wasn't an option. It's get stronger then get lean vs. get lean then get stronger.
    "Lean then stronger" lets you see where you are at in terms of muscle vs. fat gains during a bulk way, way better than when trying to bulk up more when already fat.

    Far too easy to make the mistake of thinking you are gaining more muscle than you actually are when all of the muscle is hidden under a thick layer of fat.
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  12. #12
    Registered User gainsgoblin's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Luclin999 View Post
    "Lean then stronger" lets you see where you are at in terms of muscle vs. fat gains during a bulk way, way better than when trying to bulk up more when already fat.

    Far too easy to make the mistake of thinking you are gaining more muscle than you actually are when all of the muscle is hidden under a thick layer of fat.
    I'm ngl bro u right. Time to go on a cut I guess, I'll go 500 or so below maintenance and reassess where I'm at aesthetics-wise when I'm around the 160 range.
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