Tonal Gym

[Detrus]

https://www.tonal.com/

Electro magnetic resistance sounds promising. Only 200 lbs of resistance and $3000 to review. They claim it can imitate chains.

[radrd]

I'm pretty sure Coop has one in his home but hasn't posted a review, so either it's that bad or they didn't offer him enough to make it worth his time to shill. Inb4 link to glowing Coop review.

That aside, it seems like something my wife would like if I could get her off the couch.

[Detrus]

Coop is Garage Gym Reviews on Youtube for reference. Is that correct?

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCV_...wwGpdJEka1ay7w

He definitely needs some space saving

[radrd]

Coop is Garage Gym Reviews on Youtube for reference. Is that correct?

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCV_...wwGpdJEka1ay7w

He definitely needs some space saving

Yep. He doesn't have many fans here.

[Detrus]

Finally a review from COOP of Garage Gym Reviews

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lshRFK-7QOE

He is impressed.

[radrd]

Finally a review from COOP of Garage Gym Reviews

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lshRFK-7QOE

He is impressed.

He's pretty much always impressed.

[thedickus]

Finally a review from COOP of Garage Gym Reviews

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lshRFK-7QOE

He is impressed.

That was a glowing review. I think he's right, that looks to be the future of home gyms, at least something along that line. Very true when he says that most people don't care about power racks and bars or want to use them. Back when I was in the gym/training business the percentage of people that had never entered a gym was staggering. I don't see that I could ever use something like that as the only component of my home gym. I need variety.

[BIG ACH]

Someone on Reddit commented that that it actually feels much heavier than 200 lbs - possibly closer to 275, and some of Tonal's messaging is now starting to change and advertise "more than 200 lbs" - its just sooooo sleek.

I was soooo close to buying it but then decided to go with a rig from Body-Solid for pretty much the same amount of money.

[urbanlifter]

I think he's right, that looks to be the future of home gyms

I'm going to play devils advocate here, I've seen ads for these and I think it's a fad that will pass when people figure out they could buy a quality functional trainer for the same price. One of the comments that REALLY disturbs me about the review despite his high praise was "Plastic arms that creak during use". These products are made for beta males who have convinced themselves that they don't have space for a real setup, or wealthy people who want to have something high tech in a studio apartment. Also, check out that CRAP 3 Limited Warranty!!!! Guess what is also NOT covered under the 'Limited Warranty'......

Normal wear and tear (which could be considered everything).

[Detrus]

People have the space in most cases. 90lb Powerblocks are equivalent but less compact. A foldable power rack Rogue is making now would fit. You can fit a 300lb weight set under the bed and have similar training but it's inconvenient, dangerous, and potentially loud.

It would have to be a special functional trainer that is this compact. Any other design is an eyesore in a home environment. It's either a picture on a wall or going under the bed.

If this is the future of weight training it should be easy to calculate through physics formulas for electro magnetic motors. The resistance they can provide, at what cost.

[MGM711]

Finally a review from COOP of Garage Gym Reviews

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lshRFK-7QOE

He is impressed.

It's rare to find a review where Coop isn't impressed which make his reviews basically useless. At times, he will provide some decent feedback on areas he'd like to see improved, but generally, all his reviews are positive, to the point where he will contradict himself later when comparing that said product to another similar product that he's speaking positive about.

[MGM711]

These products are made for beta males who have convinced themselves that they don't have space for a real setup, or wealthy people who want to have something high tech in a studio apartment.

The fitness world caters to beta males, that's why gyms have become so soft these days. That said, this is the wave of the future, we talked about this in the class I taught last winter, I've been saying for some time now that the Pelaton app and Tonal products are the direction fitness is going, especially now after COVID.

[MGM711]

Someone on Reddit commented that that it actually feels much heavier than 200 lbs - possibly closer to 275, and some of Tonal's messaging is now starting to change and advertise "more than 200 lbs" - its just sooooo sleek.

Years back, I did a demo for Keiser who was trying to sell me some of their air pulley systems for my facility. They tried to tell me that somehow 150lbs of air tension was equal to over 300lbs of bar weight, or something to that effect, they said I would have a hard time squatting that much, let's just say I squatted their max air tension cold, no warm up. It was certainly tougher than 100-150lbs that they had attached to the bar, but it was far from you won't be able to lift our air tension system like they were claiming. For the common gym idiot, these systems like Mirror and Tonal are likely suitable to provide enough to give a training effect. That said, I do think they will have to come up with heavier duty designs if they want to capture more of a universal home usage. I would certainly entertain getting one instead of a functional trainer, at this point, having a Tonal over FT is a much smarter purchase and likely will have a much better resale down the road.

[thedickus]

The fitness world caters to beta males, that's why gyms have become so soft these days. That said, this is the wave of the future, we talked about this in the class I taught last winter, I've been saying for some time now that the Pelaton app and Tonal products are the direction fitness is going, especially now after COVID.

I agree, I think this is the future of home gyms and "training studios". Maybe not this particular product, but something like it certainly will. For big city/small footprint living it fits the bill. Sleek, blends into a room, self contained and appears to give the user the ability to reproduce most basic barbell and dumbbell lifts. Plus it overcomes the issue of just getting your average person into a gym. The user will have a personal trainer for the most part, and with the camera most likely coming in the future a way for a trainer to correct form, all in the comfort of your own home. I can see it now, women putting on makeup and perfume to workout at home LOL. It will give 90% of the public what they need, just a way to get the benefits of some basic resistance training in the comfort/privacy of their own home. It will also usher in a new waive of excuses for not working out, can't do legs today the internet is down.

[Recidivst]

He's pretty much always impressed.

That's a Coop revue some half decent images of the product and positive affirmations for the punters that have already bought the product.

[urbanlifter]

The fitness world caters to beta males, that's why gyms have become so soft these days. That said, this is the wave of the future, we talked about this in the class I taught last winter, I've been saying for some time now that the Pelaton app and Tonal products are the direction fitness is going, especially now after COVID.

But you are missing one important aspect of Pelaton's success, spin classes allow people to join in large groups where individual attention isn't required. Honestly they might as well just be watching a video at that point, which is technology that has been around for well over 10-12 years now on treadmills and elliptical machines and people haven't stopped running/cycling outside. The Tonal gym uses pre-recorded home gym video tapes which is essentially no different than doing P90X at home with a pair of DB's and a bench. This type of training might capture a small sector of the 'well off' home gym market but I highly doubt it will be significant enough to be called the wave of the future. But if it does, I really feel bad for where humanity is heading. The future will be a sad scene from the movie Wall-e with people living their lives in virtual reality.

Years back, I did a demo for Keiser who was trying to sell me some of their air pulley systems for my facility

This is actually a really good example of how I feel about the Tonal gym, just don't see it totally replacing time tested home gym equipment. Similar to people who thought hover cars were the wave of the future, 20 years later we are still seeing rubber hit the pavement. Aspiring athletes, bodybuilders, powerlifters, and your new age social media influencers won't buy into something like the Tonal gym. So what segment does that leave you with? The well off beta male / trophy wife looking to waste money on something they probably won't use (cough, Pelaton, cough). But even then, I'm willing to bet your typical trophy wife would rather get dressed up in her lulu lemons and pay to have someone do in-person sessions.

\ rant LOL

[Detrus]

That said, I do think they will have to come up with heavier duty designs if they want to capture more of a universal home usage. I would certainly entertain getting one instead of a functional trainer, at this point, having a Tonal over FT is a much smarter purchase and likely will have a much better resale down the road.

There is https://vitruvianform.com which claims 400 lbs of resistance. It's down to the motors that slowly pull on you to simulate the weight. It's easy to imagine on the eccentric but on the concentric they have to pause and give at a certain rate. That requires fancy software in the control chip.

And strangely vitruvianform doesn't program the software to simulate gravity weights, they have a weird system that adjusts resistance to you on every rep. Probably a hack to get around the limitations of motors, sensors and software.

[Detrus]

The Tonal gym uses pre-recorded home gym video tapes which is essentially no different than doing P90X at home with a pair of DB's and a bench. This type of training might capture a small sector of the 'well off' home gym market but I highly doubt it will be significant enough to be called the wave of the future. But if it does, I really feel bad for where humanity is heading.

To me it's heading towards better engineering of fitness equipment. I'm guessing there's some modern magic behind these with sensors and computers adjusting the resistance. That's why they're coming out now.

I don't expect Tonal in its current form to make a big impact on the gravity based fitness market. But if another company has 400 lbs and it's not a fraud, it's an interesting time.

People buying Bowflex were really promised these kinds of solutions, with even, heavy resistance. It would be nice to have a scientific measurement of how hard these motors pull and give. Tonal may promise 200 LB, but it could be jerking from 200 LB to 160 LB to 200 LB to 160 LB as you do the concentric and it spins the motor to give, stall, give etc.

May be wrong on the pull and give system.

Either way the desires of the market are obvious. Fit 500 LB of electromagnetic resistance in a picture frame. Even gravity simulating resistance. The screen and camera that inspects your form will come separately in your phone or tablet anyway.

[MGM711]

But you are missing one important aspect of Pelaton's success, spin classes allow people to join in large groups where individual attention isn't required. Honestly they might as well just be watching a video at that point, which is technology that has been around for well over 10-12 years now on treadmills and elliptical machines and people haven't stopped running/cycling outside. The Tonal gym uses pre-recorded home gym video tapes which is essentially no different than doing P90X at home with a pair of DB's and a bench. This type of training might capture a small sector of the 'well off' home gym market but I highly doubt it will be significant enough to be called the wave of the future. But if it does, I really feel bad for where humanity is heading. The future will be a sad scene from the movie Wall-e with people living their lives in virtual reality.



This is actually a really good example of how I feel about the Tonal gym, just don't see it totally replacing time tested home gym equipment. Similar to people who thought hover cars were the wave of the future, 20 years later we are still seeing rubber hit the pavement. Aspiring athletes, bodybuilders, powerlifters, and your new age social media influencers won't buy into something like the Tonal gym. So what segment does that leave you with? The well off beta male / trophy wife looking to waste money on something they probably won't use (cough, Pelaton, cough). But even then, I'm willing to bet your typical trophy wife would rather get dressed up in her lulu lemons and pay to have someone do in-person sessions.

\ rant LOL

Pelaton is an ecosystem just as apple products are ecosystem. It's social, you can meet a friend and do a ride together, many housewives in my area have been doing this for some time now, it's a status thing that people aspire to be a part of. Never said the Pelaton video platform was any better than watching a youtube video, just pointing out the fact that it's become a very status-y thing to want to do now. A lot of trends often aren't the best, they're just what is popular and Pelaton has certainly become that.

The Tonal and Mirror trainers will all become live at some point from what I understand or will have the option to do live training, just seems like another revenue stream they would want to tap into.

I don't disagree with you that the old tried and true gym equipment isn't better, just pointing out that the market demand is trending to this direction. Your hardcore gym guy is the 1% fitness person, they don't cater to that market.

I will leave you with this thought, I've know from a reliable source that some 24Hr execs broke off 24Hr before they filed for bankruptcy, seeing the writing on the wall, this was pre-COVID. Apparently they're working with a venture capitalist group now to take over all the closed 24Hr gyms and turning them into...yes, you guessed it, new futuristic gyms with interactive, private, training equipment. I talked with one of them a few weeks back and said I wasn't certain there would even be demand to get back into gyms, but their research is telling them otherwise and that the market is wanting these new types of gyms instead, at least on the coasts.

[Recidivst]

400LBs of resistance that will likely be a challenge for modern wall construction,there will be some serious loads fed into something that was never intended for it hilarity to ensue.

[MGM711]

400LBs of resistance that will likely be a challenge for modern wall construction,there will be some serious loads fed into something that was never intended for it hilarity to ensue.

That's a great point, but I would think if you're mounted into a stud, it should be able to withstand that amount of tension, but I could be wrong.

[radrd]

That's a great point, but I would think if you're mounted into a stud, it should be able to withstand that amount of tension, but I could be wrong.

I'm sure the stud can handle it, but I'd worry about the mounting hardware failing or pulling out of the stud.

[urbanlifter]

I will leave you with this thought, I've know from a reliable source that some 24Hr execs broke off 24Hr before they filed for bankruptcy, seeing the writing on the wall, this was pre-COVID. Apparently they're working with a venture capitalist group now to take over all the closed 24Hr gyms and turning them into...yes, you guessed it, new futuristic gyms with interactive, private, training equipment. I talked with one of them a few weeks back and said I wasn't certain there would even be demand to get back into gyms, but their research is telling them otherwise and that the market is wanting these new types of gyms instead, at least on the coasts.

Hopefully I'm not coming off as argumentative, I've just developed a DEEP and passionate hate for technology and how it's negatively impacting society. The high tech lifting equipment is an interesting idea, I'm not opposed to trying new innovative things (at least ones that are not $3700 and then $50 a month). But I just don't see it going very far, rich housewives sound about right but I personally don't know a single person who owns a Pelaton. Those same executives failed the first time with managing 24hr Fitness, so I'd put a hefty wager on them going for a repeat with this next venture.

[radrd]

I finally watched the review and I can see the appeal. If they get this to be more interactive with group training, I think my wife would like it. I'm too old school when it comes to weights and I enjoy the DIY aspect of home gym training.

I do wonder what happens if they don't sell enough of these and go out of business. Will it even keep working? I'd think they can unlock it to work without the subscription, but who knows

[potatosoup]

I’m hoping someone can use a luggage scale or something to test the resistance to make sure the weights are accurate. Also whether or not there’s a difference in feeling and effectiveness between “magnetic” weight and weight stacks.

The required sub is steep, but according to impressions. Subs are only required for 1 year. If you factor it into the price and cancel after, it’s easier to swallow.

Also. I wonder what “manual lift mode” is like without a sub? Does the machine still detect if I’m struggling with a rep and adjusts accordingly? Do I still get to choose from a menu of the exercises so that the screen may provide instructions on where to position the arms?

Lots of questions. But very interesting.

[BiGx5MurF]

I'm going to play devils advocate here, I've seen ads for these and I think it's a fad that will pass when people figure out they could buy a quality functional trainer for the same price. One of the comments that REALLY disturbs me about the review despite his high praise was "Plastic arms that creak during use". These products are made for beta males who have convinced themselves that they don't have space for a real setup, or wealthy people who want to have something high tech in a studio apartment. Also, check out that CRAP 3 Limited Warranty!!!! Guess what is also NOT covered under the 'Limited Warranty'......

Normal wear and tear (which could be considered everything).

I don't think these types of devices will be fads, for the simple reason, they're another vector to collect and sell data. Which allows them to be profitable well after initial sale.

A quality functional trainer for example will last decades, if not a lifetime with some maintenance. A quality rack could last multiple lifetimes. These are big heavy pieces of equipment where shipping and transport costs eat into a large portion of the profit margin.

[urbanlifter]

I don't think these types of devices will be fads, for the simple reason, they're another vector to collect and sell data. Which allows them to be profitable well after initial sale.

A quality functional trainer for example will last decades, if not a lifetime with some maintenance. A quality rack could last multiple lifetimes. These are big heavy pieces of equipment where shipping and transport costs eat into a large portion of the profit margin.

They might be cash cows from a data collecting aspect, but when people realize how ineffective they are compared to a real setup it doesn't matter how profitable they are when people overpay for them. Results are results. Pelaton's success makes sense to me because it's a boring cardio machine and there is a HUGE spin class type following, but this just feels like high-tech Bowflex marketing to me. I'll pick one up for $100 of ******** some day and check it out LOL

[cwcmac]

They might be cash cows from a data collecting aspect, but when people realize how ineffective they are compared to a real setup it doesn't matter how profitable they are when people overpay for them. Results are results.

I've found with the Peloton crowd (or at least many I know), the goal isn't so much the results, it's the status of talking about it....nonstop. Seems to me, they are more interested in telling people about their rides than achieving any real fitness goals.

Tonal and it's ilk are likely the same

[Duplicitous]

I've found with the Peloton crowd (or at least many I know), the goal isn't so much the results, it's the status of talking about it....nonstop. Seems to me, they are more interested in telling people about their rides than achieving any real fitness goals.

Tonal and it's ilk are likely the same

[BiGx5MurF]

They might be cash cows from a data collecting aspect, but when people realize how ineffective they are compared to a real setup it doesn't matter how profitable they are when people overpay for them. Results are results. Pelaton's success makes sense to me because it's a boring cardio machine and there is a HUGE spin class type following, but this just feels like high-tech Bowflex marketing to me. I'll pick one up for $100 of ******** some day and check it out LOL

Just to clarify, my post doesn't refer to the Tonal specifically. But rather the market as a whole.

I believe this business model is the future of most home gym equipment. For example, I purchased an Inspire FTX a couple of months ago. A very traditional home gym market functional trainer. It came with a "free 1 year subscription", to their app which offers live classes (similar to peloton). Despite the FTX being the barebone cut down model, they put in a tablet stand above the accessory hooks. No doubt hoping the app gets used, and data mining becomes another revenue source. This probably plays into why the machine can be sold for so much less when purchased through costco.