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    Machines that work two antagonist muscles

    Just a curiosity...

    Why aren't there (or are there?) machines that can work two antagonist muscles or two mucles in the same exercise?
    For example, a machine with two levers or something like this:
    - a hammer chest machine that on the negative movement works as a seated row for back
    - a shoulder press machine for the up movement that works also as a pulldown for the down movement
    - leg extensions for quads and leg curls for hams

    And so on...
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  2. #2
    Han shot first! TolerantLactose's Avatar
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    Are you new to training? You can't see the technical problems?
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    Registered User jaxqen's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by TolerantLactose View Post
    Are you new to training? You can't see the technical problems?
    Only one year and I didn't used machines much, mosly free weight, so I don't know much about them.

    It was just a curiosity
    No, I cannot see the technical problems
    Please enlighten me, TL!
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    Registered User air2fakie's Avatar
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    I prefer Hammer Strength machines not to have the ability to go the wrong way either intentionally or via malfunction, but that’s just me.

    I’m sure you can find a crappy all-in-one home gym online that uses the same mechanism for tons of diff movements.
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    Han shot first! TolerantLactose's Avatar
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    It must be nice where you're guided by your imagination and not real world physics.
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    Registered User jaxqen's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by air2fakie View Post
    I prefer Hammer Strength machines not to have the ability to go the wrong way either intentionally or via malfunction, but that’s just me.

    I’m sure you can find a crappy all-in-one home gym online that uses the same mechanism for tons of diff movements.
    Yeah, there are all-in-ones but I am talking about about working two antagonist muscles using two movements of push and pull.

    And I am not interested in buying or using something like that, it was just a curiosity if it is possible having a machine with two levers.

    Like I said earlier, I don't know much about fitness machines, I don't use them, except reverse flyes.

    Originally Posted by TolerantLactose View Post
    It must be nice where you're guided by your imagination and not real world physics.
    It was just a question.
    I wanted to know if it was possible.
    Why can't you achieve it with two or several levers?
    For example, overhead press machine
    you push the weight, using one level. At the end of the push movement, another lever takes on and allows you to use a pull movement.
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    Originally Posted by jaxqen View Post
    Yeah, there are all-in-ones but I am talking about about working two antagonist muscles using two movements of push and pull.

    And I am not interested in buying or using something like that, it was just a curiosity if it is possible having a machine with two levers.

    Like I said earlier, I don't know much about fitness machines, I don't use them, except reverse flyes.
    So you ask this Q when the one machine you use is also one of the few machines that usually also does do an opposite movement?
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    Registered User jaxqen's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by air2fakie View Post
    So you ask this Q when the one machine you use is also one of the few machines that usually also does do an opposite movement?
    It does, but not on the same exercise.

    I am sorry, English is not my primary language and I don't know the technical terms so I cannot explain it better.

    On the reverse flyes machine you can also do chest flyes, right. But its not on the same 'exercise'. You do chest flyes, you modify the handle's angles and then you do the reverse flyes for posterior delts.
    I am talking about doing them at the same time.



    One rep - two movement - concentric and eccentric
    1. first movement - push movement - concentric movement - chest flyes.
    2. pause (at this moment, a secondary lever takes control)
    3. the second movement - the eccentric movement for chest flyes becomes a concentric movement for reverse flyes.
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    I would imagine it would be difficult to design.

    For instance you would perform the chest press, then the machine would have to disengage the 'arms' from the original pulley when they start moving in the opposite direction. They would have to reattach to a different pully system and weight stack to provide the opposing resistance.

    Can imagine it breaking down very often and costing more than just buying two machines

    Edit: also everyone's range of motion is different so there wouldn't be a 'pause' point where the system would automatically switch, it would have to be based on the eccentric beginning to trigger the switch

    Edit Edit: The machine would also need to know at exactly which cable length to apply the starting resistance (again everyone's ROM being different) otherwise either the weight would be slack (if you have long arms) or the weight would suddenly jerk you forward (if you have short arms)
    Last edited by AlexSays; 08-03-2020 at 02:03 AM.
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    Originally Posted by jaxqen View Post
    It does, but not on the same exercise.

    I am sorry, English is not my primary language and I don't know the technical terms so I cannot explain it better.

    On the reverse flyes machine you can also do chest flyes, right. But its not on the same 'exercise'. You do chest flyes, you modify the handle's angles and then you do the reverse flyes for posterior delts.
    I am talking about doing them at the same time.



    One rep - two movement - concentric and eccentric
    1. first movement - push movement - concentric movement - chest flyes.
    2. pause (at this moment, a secondary lever takes control)
    3. the second movement - the eccentric movement for chest flyes becomes a concentric movement for reverse flyes.
    So basically a rear delt / chest fly machine with a double sandwiched seatback to hold a person in place for both movements with a dual weight stack so one can select their desired weight for both movements and it’ll automatically switch back and forth from either one depending on which part of the movement?

    For people who have a rear delt fly / chest fly superset in their program but want to have each rep supersetted rather than the typical superset of one exercise to the next?
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    Originally Posted by air2fakie View Post
    So basically a reverse delt / chest fly machine with a double sandwiched seatback to hold a person in place for both movements with a dual weight stack so one can select their desired weight for both movements and it’ll automatically switch back and forth from either one depending on which part of the movement?

    For people who have a rear delt fly / chest fly superset in their program but want to have each rep supersetted rather than the typical superset of one exercise to the next?
    I agree that it is stupid, I didn't say it would be better.
    But there are many crap machines out there and I just wondered if there are such things.

    Yes, for chest flyes & reverse flyes it would be more difficult because of the double sandwiched seatback.
    Easier for a overhead press and pulldown. You have two sets of weights. 1 for shoulders, 1 for back. You choose both of them ar first.

    And then, like AlexSays says, another pully system takes over.

    Originally Posted by AlexSays View Post
    Edit: also everyone's range of motion is different so there wouldn't be a 'pause' point where the system would automatically switch, it would have to be based on the eccentric beginning to trigger the switch
    Indeed, good thinking.
    But the range of motion could be adjustable by the seat, I assume.
    Or experimenting with the angles of the handles for each individual user.
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  12. #12
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    Nautilus Pullover, OP.
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    My gym has a pullover machine which would hit the lats and the pecs in one motion. Might be worth giving it a try soon.
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    Originally Posted by Ironface View Post
    Nautilus Pullover, OP.
    Originally Posted by EliKoehn View Post
    My gym has a pullover machine which would hit the lats and the pecs in one motion. Might be worth giving it a try soon.
    I don't think you're understanding what he was getting at.
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    Originally Posted by TolerantLactose View Post
    I don't think you're understanding what he was getting at.
    So he's talking about something that provides resistance in opposite directions (like a lever you could both push and pull)?
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    Originally Posted by TolerantLactose View Post
    I don't think you're understanding what he was getting at.
    Shhh! I'm designing my line of "Supersetted Rep" machines now. Chest Press/Row, OHP/Pulldown and Chest Fly/Rear Delt Fly, with patented dual-setting weight stacks and sandwiched seatback technology. Don't tell anyone.
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    I think you just found your million dollar idea, OP.
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    Originally Posted by jamalfudge View Post
    I think you just found your million dollar idea, OP.
    Don't tell OP or I'll have competition. It's a line of Concentric Only Supersetted Rep machines. You chest press out then row back in. OHP up, then lat pull down. And chest fly in, then rear delt fly out.
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    Originally Posted by EliKoehn View Post
    So he's talking about something that provides resistance in opposite directions (like a lever you could both push and pull)?
    Yeppers. Chest press in one direction, reverse the motion for a row. Wait until he learns about importance of eccentrics. He'll blow his mind trying to figure that out.
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    Hmm, maybe you could do something with cables to create both a downward and upward resistance. So, you could go to any machine with a high and low cable, attach both to a single point between them(like say a dip belt on your waist) and no matter which direction you went up or down, you'd be resisted against. Although, since cable machines by nature are already providing constant tension, this seems redundant on paper, but maybe it would increase the tension of the exercise. It's worth testing out, but probably as close as you'll realistically come to genuine simultaneous multidirectional resistance via machines. It's something you can already try now, at a decently equipped public gym.
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    Maybe if they made a machine that uses a flywheel (like on an indoor bike) or rotors and the "weight" is an adjustable brake on the flywheel, you can have an opposing "weight"/resistance in both directions.

    But I also train negatives.
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    Originally Posted by air2fakie View Post
    Shhh! I'm designing my line of "Supersetted Rep" machines now. Chest Press/Row, OHP/Pulldown and Chest Fly/Rear Delt Fly, with patented dual-setting weight stacks and sandwiched seatback technology. Don't tell anyone.
    Will stay silent for 25% shares...
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    Originally Posted by TolerantLactose View Post
    Yeppers. Chest press in one direction, reverse the motion for a row. Wait until he learns about importance of eccentrics. He'll blow his mind trying to figure that out.
    Maybe you didn't read carefully what I wrote, but I REPEAT:

    - I didn't say it was a good idea, I was just CURIOUS to know if someone created such machines, since there are so many fitness junks out there
    - I don't consider it a good idea or a million dollar idea or a 50 cent idea, it was just curiosity if it can be done
    - I am well aware about the importance of eccentrics
    - I am not interested in designing a "Supersetted Rep" Chest Press/Row, OHP/Pulldown and Chest Fly/Rear Delt Fly machine... again, it was just curiosity


    You said something about "real world physics", but apparently it can be done with 2 pullies.

    Originally Posted by air2fakie View Post
    Shhh! I'm designing my line of "Supersetted Rep" machines now. Chest Press/Row, OHP/Pulldown and Chest Fly/Rear Delt Fly, with patented dual-setting weight stacks and sandwiched seatback technology. Don't tell anyone.
    I do expect photos with it and with you near it when you finish it.
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    Originally Posted by jaxqen View Post
    - I am well aware about the importance of eccentrics

    ....

    You said something about "real world physics", but apparently it can be done with 2 pullies.
    If you were aware of the importance of eccentrics, you'd know why it hasn't been done already. And no, it can't be done with 2 pulleys.

    Originally Posted by jaxqen View Post
    Why aren't there (or are there?) machines that can work two antagonist muscles or two mucles in the same exercise?
    I can tell time. Time cannot tell me.

    Formerly LactoseTolerant. I'm not very imaginative.
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    Do we not teach physics in school anymore?
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    Originally Posted by jaxqen View Post
    Maybe you didn't read carefully what I wrote, but I REPEAT:

    - I didn't say it was a good idea, I was just CURIOUS to know if someone created such machines, since there are so many fitness junks out there
    - I don't consider it a good idea or a million dollar idea or a 50 cent idea, it was just curiosity if it can be done
    - I am well aware about the importance of eccentrics
    - I am not interested in designing a "Supersetted Rep" Chest Press/Row, OHP/Pulldown and Chest Fly/Rear Delt Fly machine... again, it was just curiosity


    You said something about "real world physics", but apparently it can be done with 2 pullies.



    I do expect photos with it and with you near it when you finish it.
    Are you friends with rocky balboa
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    Originally Posted by air2fakie View Post
    Shhh! I'm designing my line of "Supersetted Rep" machines now. Chest Press/Row, OHP/Pulldown and Chest Fly/Rear Delt Fly, with patented dual-setting weight stacks and sandwiched seatback technology. Don't tell anyone.
    I’d imagine they would be rather prone to breaking
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    Originally Posted by TolerantLactose View Post
    And no, it can't be done with 2 pulleys.
    Why?
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    Originally Posted by jaxqen View Post
    Why?
    Wow. Are you really this simple?
    I can tell time. Time cannot tell me.

    Formerly LactoseTolerant. I'm not very imaginative.
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    Originally Posted by Ghawk21 View Post
    Do we not teach physics in school anymore?
    Originally Posted by jaxqen View Post
    Why?
    Suppose that answers that question.
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