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    Post Loads of volume and eating more

    Hello forum,

    Is full body training with loads of volume, eating and sleeping more preferable to the classic split, rest and repeat bodybuilding type of working out routines?

    Background :
    During quarantine, I have used a lot of trx and Olympic rings, full body training to stimulate muscle growth.
    All. Bodybuilding principles, progressive overload, time under tension, rep ranges to name a few, have been followed and I feel it brings good results to me.
    I am quite experienced lifter, so I am able to handle loads of volume due to not working atm - some days 40-50 heavy sets in two workouts, but bare minimum of 25 sets daily with the rare day off when feeling drained.

    Concise, constructive, empirical or scientific evidence-based opinions are welcome
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    Higher frequency is not decisively better than lower for hypertrophy. People are increasingly preferring it - but mainly because it makes it easier to do higher total volume.

    Total volume IS important for hypertrophy but it is not a case of more is always better. Because too much can lead to premature overreaching - or subconscious under exerting in sets because you have a lot to get through.

    Eating more is a similar story. There is in fact no decisive evidence that you must be in a surplus to gain muscle. But we do know that an increasingly large deficit reduces muscle growth. Where the changeover point is probably depends on age, experience, effort, bodyfat etc.
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    Originally Posted by SuffolkPunch View Post
    Higher frequency is not decisively better than lower for hypertrophy. People are increasingly preferring it - but mainly because it makes it easier to do higher total volume.

    Total volume IS important for hypertrophy but it is not a case of more is always better. Because too much can lead to premature overreaching - or subconscious under exerting in sets because you have a lot to get through.

    Eating more is a similar story. There is in fact no decisive evidence that you must be in a surplus to gain muscle. But we do know that an increasingly large deficit reduces muscle growth. Where the changeover point is probably depends on age, experience, effort, bodyfat etc.
    Solid answer, what's your specific practice in my occasion as stated above
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    Personally I enjoy and do well with high volume sub max work with a focus on being as controlled and explosive as possible.

    Like 8 sets of 5 to 3 reps.

    I don't like the 10x10 type approaches, I don't think it's generally productive volume and suspect most people's technique detoriates to a large extent, and there's good evidence that higher rep work has a significant negative impact on fatigue in general so we should probably avoid throwing in to many sets for that.
    Even if we take that odd velocity gets more unreliable as we do more reps in a set and there's little point in doing sub max work unless you are trying to move the weight as fast as possible.

    As for food. If you are not eating enough alresdy then adding calories helps for sure. But if you are already in a small surplus adding calories to make up for volume probably isn't helpful
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    Originally Posted by WolfRose7 View Post
    Personally I enjoy and do well with high volume sub max work with a focus on being as controlled and explosive as possible.

    Like 8 sets of 5 to 3 reps.

    I don't like the 10x10 type approaches, I don't think it's generally productive volume and suspect most people's technique detoriates to a large extent, and there's good evidence that higher rep work has a significant negative impact on fatigue in general so we should probably avoid throwing in to many sets for that.
    Even if we take that odd velocity gets more unreliable as we do more reps in a set and there's little point in doing sub max work unless you are trying to move the weight as fast as possible.

    As for food. If you are not eating enough alresdy then adding calories helps for sure. But if you are already in a small surplus adding calories to make up for volume probably isn't helpful
    Thank you for the answer.
    I believe that the best approach is variety, I am a classic powerbuilder, doing deads, overhead press and bench press from single to 10.
    During the time I am away from gym, I realised what I was missing out by sticking to one tyoe of exercise and honestly calisthenics, trx, rings, you name it, will be pwrt of my exercise to kmprive other fitness aspects of my fitness such as stability, core coordination and unbalances.
    The real question is if more volume, pushing this parameter to the limit of my potential, varying load from 100 to 60 % of my single max, added with adequate food and rest for my size will be more beneficial than a bro split and 45min exercise per day.
    Very tricky question I have to admit
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    Originally Posted by Thanos7Rocks View Post
    Solid answer, what's your specific practice in my occasion as stated above
    Well I can tell you what I do - but I don't have experience with the equipment you describe.

    I train 5 days a week. I divide the body into 5 parts (chest, quads, back, shoulders, posterior chain).

    Every day I do 2 compounds and 3 isolations - covering all 5 parts of the body. A different order every day for the 5 day microcycle.

    At the moment, I'm doing 3 sets in the first compound and 2 in the second. These are mostly barbell exercises like squat, bench, overhead with some other weighted movements like pullups.

    Then I do 2 sets for each of the isolation exercises, mostly using bands. Each set close to the point of failure (as far as that can be determined when using the non linear resistance from bands)
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    Originally Posted by SuffolkPunch View Post
    Well I can tell you what I do - but I don't have experience with the equipment you describe.

    I train 5 days a week. I divide the body into 5 parts (chest, quads, back, shoulders, posterior chain).

    Every day I do 2 compounds and 3 isolations - covering all 5 parts of the body. A different order every day for the 5 day microcycle.

    At the moment, I'm doing 3 sets in the first compound and 2 in the second. These are mostly barbell exercises like squat, bench, overhead with some other weighted movements like pullups.

    Then I do 2 sets for each of the isolation exercises, mostly using bands. Each set close to the point of failure (as far as that can be determined when using the non linear resistance from bands)
    Amazing, more of a bodybuilding split, good stuff.
    A bit out of my question, but I would suggest trying these both types of equipment as part of your training. I got both for 70 quid from Amazon UK and it's a powerhouse of training, set anytime and everywhere needed .

    If you ever come to. London, shoot a text to workout together and get a feeling of what I describe
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    Originally Posted by Thanos7Rocks View Post
    Thank you for the answer.
    I believe that the best approach is variety, I am a classic powerbuilder, doing deads, overhead press and bench press from single to 10.
    During the time I am away from gym, I realised what I was missing out by sticking to one tyoe of exercise and honestly calisthenics, trx, rings, you name it, will be pwrt of my exercise to kmprive other fitness aspects of my fitness such as stability, core coordination and unbalances.
    The real question is if more volume, pushing this parameter to the limit of my potential, varying load from 100 to 60 % of my single max, added with adequate food and rest for my size will be more beneficial than a bro split and 45min exercise per day.
    Very tricky question I have to admit
    I think a varied approach is valuable, the only downside is that if you have too many goals.. Cardio, strength, size, flexibility etc etc it is going to be difficult to become great at any one particularly, though I imagine with enough time and sensible approaches towards training you could become relatively proficient in several at least
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    Originally Posted by WolfRose7 View Post
    I think a varied approach is valuable, the only downside is that if you have too many goals.. Cardio, strength, size, flexibility etc etc it is going to be difficult to become great at any one particularly, though I imagine with enough time and sensible approaches towards training you could become relatively proficient in several at least
    I can see where you come from.
    However, in my book fitness is more like a chain. If one fails, all go down.
    If there is not enough cardiovascular competency- hate and dont do cardio, our effort will fall short.
    If there is not enough flexibility, we run bigger risk of injury and lack of mobility in the joint to perform full ROM
    If there is not enough size, we dont bodybuild lol
    Plus, we train to be big, healthy and strong, right?
    Steroid-free bodybuilding imo is based mainly in developing these motor skills to pull weight, enough volume to stimualte growth and higher hormonal stimulation which ends up to provide better motor and muscle gains.
    What are your thoughts about it?
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    Originally Posted by Thanos7Rocks View Post
    I can see where you come from.
    However, in my book fitness is more like a chain. If one fails, all go down.
    If there is not enough cardiovascular competency- hate and dont do cardio, our effort will fall short.
    If there is not enough flexibility, we run bigger risk of injury and lack of mobility in the joint to perform full ROM
    If there is not enough size, we dont bodybuild lol
    Plus, we train to be big, healthy and strong, right?
    Steroid-free bodybuilding imo is based mainly in developing these motor skills to pull weight, enough volume to stimualte growth and higher hormonal stimulation which ends up to provide better motor and muscle gains.
    What are your thoughts about it?
    To an extent I agree. However you only need enough cardiovascular activity to be healthy to a point. After a certain point health benefits will be dimishing in favour of cardio performance. You don't need to do iron man's to be healthy or have enough cardio to lift.

    Same with flexibility, there's little evidence increased flexibility has any effect on injury prevention for lifters. So if you have enough mobility to perform the movements you want without issue any more is not beneficial to anything other than being more flexible. If that's not a goal there's no value in the time spent there instead of elsewhere at that point.

    For example the only mobility work I need is some shoulder work to get in positions to comfortably bench well, and low bar squat.
    I've excessive mobility for movements in other places, ankles for example.
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    Originally Posted by SuffolkPunch View Post
    Higher frequency is not decisively better than lower for hypertrophy. People are increasingly preferring it - but mainly because it makes it easier to do higher total volume.

    Total volume IS important for hypertrophy but it is not a case of more is always better. Because too much can lead to premature overreaching - or subconscious under exerting in sets because you have a lot to get through.

    Eating more is a similar story. There is in fact no decisive evidence that you must be in a surplus to gain muscle. But we do know that an increasingly large deficit reduces muscle growth. Where the changeover point is probably depends on age, experience, effort, bodyfat etc.
    Could you expand on your last statement? I have always read in this forum that one of the MUST to build muscle was to be in a calorie surplus...
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    Originally Posted by rpedrosb View Post
    Could you expand on your last statement? I have always read in this forum that one of the MUST to build muscle was to be in a calorie surplus...
    https://mennohenselmans.com/gain-mus...the-same-time/

    We sometimes make things simple, especially for skinny guys who tend to stay skinny unless they force the issue. Recomping is much easier for fatter people.
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