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  1. #61
    No Agony, No Bragony JUSA's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Tha big kahoona View Post
    3 of the worst countries at handling the pandemic:

    1) US. Trump
    2) UK. Boris Mini Trump Johnson
    3) Brazil. Jair Tropical Trump Bolsonaro
    Unlike others, you're bright.

    What specifically did Trump do wrong? What should he have done? You're an OG join date, show me your posts from Jan-March where you were advocating anything that made any sense.

    Keep in mind his role: President. Not Dictator, not King, not Emperor.

    Governors are making decisions for their states. Trump isn't.
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  2. #62
    Registered User ceizer1985's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by gachase21 View Post

    Op is correct on 1 thing, North Korea says they’ve had 0 cases or deaths.....
    Would you stop posting this garbage already?

    1. Read what the header says: "The CFR is a poor measure of the mortality risk."




    2. Yes, we're testing more but why is that? The disease is out of control in the US while ramping down in all those other countries except for UK perhaps.





    3. Why are you comparing US to third world south american countries? Is that who we should be compared with?




    4. Great news, we are 7th on the list in the world. And will be top 5 at this rate. Wonderful.

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  3. #63
    Soros Disciple Tha big kahoona's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by JUSA View Post
    Unlike others, you're bright.

    What specifically did Trump do wrong? What should he have done? You're an OG join date, show me your posts from Jan-March where you were advocating anything that made any sense.

    Keep in mind his role: President. Not Dictator, not King, not Emperor.

    Governors are making decisions for their states. Trump isn't.
    Well here's what i personally think he could have done better:

    1 - He praised China and Xi. Whichever side of 5he argument you take, that was just bad.

    2 - Many thousands of Chinese people enteres the US after the ban. As the big boss, you are always accountable for weak execution

    3 - The POTUS is a person other people look up to. He has more influence than anybody else on the planet. There's no denying that. Look at how often we discuss him on this forum alone. That said, he should have led by example. Wear a damn mask for example. Instead he chose to pander.

    4 - There's no need to lie. Small lies here and there. Neverending. I know you're ok with looking past them because you agree with his policies, and that's fine, but we can all agree it's a terrible habit he has. Yoo many to list.

    5 - He chose to engage in petty fights and arguments during a pandemic and recession. The last one was bubba wallace. Again, lack of leadership. Focus on the task at hand and stop engaging.

    6 - He's been acting like a child throughout thr whole pandemic. How many times has he tweeted about Obama in the past few months. Let is go man, there's no need to bring up how Obama handled H1N1 in 2009.

    7 - Labeling Churches as essential, therefore allowing them to open. More pandering and unnecessarily putting people at risk.

    8 - He actually went golfing during a pandemic....multiple times.

    9 - His incredibly dismissive attitude at the start. "It's a little like the regular flu that we have flu shots for". Unacceptable IMO. And you also can't deny how influential his words are, because we have an entire brigade of "it's just a flu bro" posters on this sub alone.

    10 - Claiming in March that travelers to the US were being tested. They weren't.

    11 - removing the independent watchdog in charge of overseeing the $2 trillion package.

    12 - You may disagree with shelter in palce orders now, and i guess we can have a debate about that. But, i don't believe anybody should have been opposed to the lockdown measures at the start. People are dumb, they're going to do dumb stuff if you let them. A lockdown was needed. Trump pandering to his base by saying "LIBERATE MINNESOTA" and "LIBERATE MICHIGAN" and "LIBERATE VIRGINIA" back in mid April was just dumb, and very counter productive, because again, people listen to thr POTUS.

    The list is much longer, but that's a good start. I didn't copy this from anywere; these are my thoughts.
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  4. #64
    SHOTS FIRED! KINGFABIAN's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Tha big kahoona View Post
    Well here's what i personally think he could have done better:

    1 - He praised China and Xi. Whichever side of 5he argument you take, that was just bad.

    2 - Many thousands of Chinese people enteres the US after the ban. As the big boss, you are always accountable for weak execution

    3 - The POTUS is a person other people look up to. He has more influence than anybody else on the planet. There's no denying that. Look at how often we discuss him on this forum alone. That said, he should have led by example. Wear a damn mask for example. Instead he chose to pander.

    4 - There's no need to lie. Small lies here and there. Neverending. I know you're ok with looking past them because you agree with his policies, and that's fine, but we can all agree it's a terrible habit he has. Yoo many to list.

    5 - He chose to engage in petty fights and arguments during a pandemic and recession. The last one was bubba wallace. Again, lack of leadership. Focus on the task at hand and stop engaging.

    6 - He's been acting like a child throughout thr whole pandemic. How many times has he tweeted about Obama in the past few months. Let is go man, there's no need to bring up how Obama handled H1N1 in 2009.

    7 - Labeling Churches as essential, therefore allowing them to open. More pandering and unnecessarily putting people at risk.

    8 - He actually went golfing during a pandemic....multiple times.

    9 - His incredibly dismissive attitude at the start. "It's a little like the regular flu that we have flu shots for". Unacceptable IMO. And you also can't deny how influential his words are, because we have an entire brigade of "it's just a flu bro" posters on this sub alone.

    10 - Claiming in March that travelers to the US were being tested. They weren't.

    11 - removing the independent watchdog in charge of overseeing the $2 trillion package.

    12 - You may disagree with shelter in palce orders now, and i guess we can have a debate about that. But, i don't believe anybody should have been opposed to the lockdown measures at the start. People are dumb, they're going to do dumb stuff if you let them. A lockdown was needed. Trump pandering to his base by saying "LIBERATE MINNESOTA" and "LIBERATE MICHIGAN" and "LIBERATE VIRGINIA" back in mid April was just dumb, and very counter productive, because again, people listen to thr POTUS.

    The list is much longer, but that's a good start. I didn't copy this from anywere; these are my thoughts.
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  5. #65
    Registered User rampagefc77's Avatar
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    If Trump's response if deemed a failure, imagine how bad it would be if democrats were in power?

    - Biden called Trump a xenophobe for banning travel to china
    - Democrat governors pumped COVID patients into nursing homes

    What would Biden have done differently that would have led to a better outcome? The answer is nothing. It would have been worse.

    So if we are to criticize Trump, you have to also admit that the alternative would be worse. I'm confident that we would have had more infected and more deaths if dems were in charge, along with a worse economic recovery.

    With regard to your last point, the shelter in place orders were meant to flatten the curve. Dem states flattened their curve and then refused to reopen. If the goal is no cases before reopening, our country won't survive. A $1200 stimulus check isn't going to get the country through months and months of sheltering in place, and we are in debt as a country, we can't magically make trillions appear to keep everyone afloat. People need to work.
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  6. #66
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    5/6 times as many infected European people **flew into New York with the virus** than the Chinese, so while blocking the Chinese sounds great on paper it was Europe that should have been blocked.

    2.4 million>400,000
    sums it up a thread will start off promising and then turn into name calling..
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  7. #67
    Registered User cheerioboo's Avatar
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    its undeniable that Trump has blood on his hands, he didnt do nothing as far as closing up the country and talk common sense, instead he talked about injecting bleach and that he knows more than the doctors. he is an absolute retard.
    Last edited by cheerioboo; 07-10-2020 at 08:47 AM.
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  8. #68
    Registered User IronBrahh's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Tha big kahoona View Post
    Well here's what i personally think he could have done better:

    1 - He praised China and Xi. Whichever side of 5he argument you take, that was just bad.

    2 - Many thousands of Chinese people enteres the US after the ban. As the big boss, you are always accountable for weak execution

    3 - The POTUS is a person other people look up to. He has more influence than anybody else on the planet. There's no denying that. Look at how often we discuss him on this forum alone. That said, he should have led by example. Wear a damn mask for example. Instead he chose to pander.

    4 - There's no need to lie. Small lies here and there. Neverending. I know you're ok with looking past them because you agree with his policies, and that's fine, but we can all agree it's a terrible habit he has. Yoo many to list.

    5 - He chose to engage in petty fights and arguments during a pandemic and recession. The last one was bubba wallace. Again, lack of leadership. Focus on the task at hand and stop engaging.

    6 - He's been acting like a child throughout thr whole pandemic. How many times has he tweeted about Obama in the past few months. Let is go man, there's no need to bring up how Obama handled H1N1 in 2009.

    7 - Labeling Churches as essential, therefore allowing them to open. More pandering and unnecessarily putting people at risk.

    8 - He actually went golfing during a pandemic....multiple times.

    9 - His incredibly dismissive attitude at the start. "It's a little like the regular flu that we have flu shots for". Unacceptable IMO. And you also can't deny how influential his words are, because we have an entire brigade of "it's just a flu bro" posters on this sub alone.

    10 - Claiming in March that travelers to the US were being tested. They weren't.

    11 - removing the independent watchdog in charge of overseeing the $2 trillion package.

    12 - You may disagree with shelter in palce orders now, and i guess we can have a debate about that. But, i don't believe anybody should have been opposed to the lockdown measures at the start. People are dumb, they're going to do dumb stuff if you let them. A lockdown was needed. Trump pandering to his base by saying "LIBERATE MINNESOTA" and "LIBERATE MICHIGAN" and "LIBERATE VIRGINIA" back in mid April was just dumb, and very counter productive, because again, people listen to thr POTUS.

    The list is much longer, but that's a good start. I didn't copy this from anywere; these are my thoughts.
    good list

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  9. #69
    Registered User Rad203's Avatar
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    southern states when too big balled and thought they wouldn't get affected. Should have held their noses and stayed shut for a month longer, the UK did crap and we are on the way up now (hopefully).
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  10. #70
    No Agony, No Bragony JUSA's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Tha big kahoona View Post
    Well here's what i personally think he could have done better:
    Cool, I actually haven't read what you said and I'll reply to it as I go.

    > 1 - He praised China and Xi. Whichever side of 5he argument you take, that was just bad.
    - He does this a lot, praising one day, negging the next. I think it's a negotiation tactic. Bad? Meh, whatever, if it works it works. Does it? Here, I doubt it.

    > 2 - Many thousands of Chinese people enteres the US after the ban. As the big boss, you are always accountable for weak execution
    - I don't know the ins-and-outs and I don't think a ban as late as he made it had any kind of affect on anything. Just too late. Good on him for trying but yeah people getting through would be a weakness (imagine if it had been done early enough to matter, then it would have been bad)

    > 3 - The POTUS is a person other people look up to. He has more influence than anybody else on the planet. There's no denying that. Look at how often we discuss him on this forum alone. That said, he should have led by example. Wear a damn mask for example. Instead he chose to pander.
    - At which point should he have done that? What date? This mask stuff is fairly recent.

    > 4 - There's no need to lie. Small lies here and there. Neverending. I know you're ok with looking past them because you agree with his policies, and that's fine, but we can all agree it's a terrible habit he has. Yoo many to list.
    - I see this as a Yank thing, he speaks in absolutes, it's how he's operated (to great success) over the years. Everything is, "The best!" or "The worst! Terrible!", nothing is every "yeah that's fine."... and I don't think this critique belongs anywhere on this list, because - who cares? Would him have sticking to absolute fact-checked-only with no hyperbole rather than speak in his perceived direction boldly mattered to anyone?

    > 5 - He chose to engage in petty fights and arguments during a pandemic and recession. The last one was bubba wallace. Again, lack of leadership. Focus on the task at hand and stop engaging.
    - He can do two things at once. Three, four, even hundreds. I see this as another, "Who cares" because unless his engagement with Bubba Wallace served as a distraction and hurt his response on Covid - then it doesn't matter. Did it? Did that 30 second tweet keep him from making a critical decision which would have saved a single life? No. So: Who cares. In fact, as someone who dislikes the 'other side' of the culture war, I'm glad he's pressing against the extremists and race-baiting identitarians -- so long as it doesn't impair his ability to lead otherwise, and it doesn't.

    > 6 - He's been acting like a child throughout thr whole pandemic. How many times has he tweeted about Obama in the past few months. Let is go man, there's no need to bring up how Obama handled H1N1 in 2009.
    - Dude, you don't like him. I respect your not liking him, but because you don't like his manner or speech that doesn't mean he bungled this covid thing. I'm seeing a lot of your points that are along this. "Well he's a big jerk!" ... and? Yeah, you think he's a stinker, I get it. Unless his being a bad meanie did something directly then get off it.

    > 7 - Labeling Churches as essential, therefore allowing them to open. More pandering and unnecessarily putting people at risk.
    - Here's a policy, one that you could argue put people at risk. Noted.

    > 8 - He actually went golfing during a pandemic....multiple times.
    - I've defended Bush and Obama over this one when the other guys would go after them on this (and I disliked both as leaders/president). They all do this, they all get chit done while doing it, they all can't be sitting at meeting for 18 hours straight 7 days a week. They ALL DO THIS, it's not only a problem when it's Obama and you're a Republican or if it's Bush/Trump when you're a Democrat.

    > 9 - His incredibly dismissive attitude at the start. "It's a little like the regular flu that we have flu shots for". Unacceptable IMO. And you also can't deny how influential his words are, because we have an entire brigade of "it's just a flu bro" posters on this sub alone.
    - A lot of people were comparing it to the flu at the start. He was off, although not nearly as off as others who later estimated it at 3-6% mortality. This is a point and it's noted, though.

    > 10 - Claiming in March that travelers to the US were being tested. They weren't.
    - This would go beyond the earlier "he's a Yank and exaggerated" kind of thing I don't care about, THIS is an actual lie that matters. Noted.

    > 11 - removing the independent watchdog in charge of overseeing the $2 trillion package.
    - Noted.

    > 12 - You may disagree with shelter in palce orders now, and i guess we can have a debate about that. But, i don't believe anybody should have been opposed to the lockdown measures at the start. People are dumb, they're going to do dumb stuff if you let them. A lockdown was needed. Trump pandering to his base by saying "LIBERATE MINNESOTA" and "LIBERATE MICHIGAN" and "LIBERATE VIRGINIA" back in mid April was just dumb, and very counter productive, because again, people listen to thr POTUS.
    - Noted.

    ... Okay, boiling out some of the more emotional "I just don't like the guy" responses, we're left with...

    He should have worn or be wearing a mask.
    He labeled Churches as essential
    His attitude at the start was dismissive
    You claim he was lying about people being tested in March when they weren't (people coming into the country?)
    Removed an individual watchdog in charge of 2 trillion package

    ... Yeah, certainly didn't handle it perfectly. I agree with one point (he was too soft initially) and would probably want clarification on other parts (more info on that watchdog group, him lying in March).

    Like you, we disagree on the extent I'm sure but neither of us think he was perfect throughout this. I think he made mistakes, I think he did some things right, I also hold other parties as far more responsible. Some of them beyond his control.. so it's not like his people bungling something - that's ultimately on him. I mean like Governors, the media, China, the WHO, etc...

    Anyway, glad SOMEONE finally put some stuff down. We can talk now. Should have figured it'd been you, like I said from the start you're a lot sharper than some of these people who take these positions.
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    Leftists ITT once again proving they have sub 50 IQ. Nice work ladies.
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  12. #72
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    Originally Posted by JUSA View Post
    Defend what? You didn't say what he did wrong. Anyone ever notice that? It's always this kind of thing. What did he do, what should he have done, tell us. OP is a new date troll but oddly the others who sound just like him with older join dates -- no posts in their history show them outlining any kind of good sound (in retrospect) ideas in January, February, March, etc...

    Trump has no control over the MSM that whipped everyone into a hysteria. Trump has no control of Governors who lock sick old people together. Trump has no control over experts who advocate the use of ventilators when nobody knows any better.

    What did he do wrong? Listen to the WHO? Yeah. Shouldn't have. He's corrected that.

    When Trump did take action, like suggest Hcq might be helpful (and we now know it is), he's demonized. When he shut the border down to China (which in hindsight wasn't quick enough anyway) but even then he is accused of racism.

    Give me a break. You put all this on his lap when so many others did so much wrong, talking about Cuomo, the media, the WHO, etc... this is just another TDS fit to put anything they can on Trump. On one hand, you're blaming him for the price of the lockdown and on the other screaming because he's not locking down hard enough, as if he's a King and not a President. Hint, Governors are making these decisions, as it's supposed to be.
    The issue isn't that Trump did something wrong... he just didn't do much of anything. He left the borders open when Corona was spreading across the world and downplayed the problem. What he didn't do:

    1) Close the borders to European countries where the virus was spreading rapidly, until it was too late and the virus was already in the US.

    2) Tell citizens to wear a mask. Evidence is that a mask helps but even if it doesn't it's not doing any harm. It's a small sacrifice to avoid spreading disease.

    3) Implement contact tracing and testing for anyone who entered the US prior to November 2019.

    If he had done this there would have been a very good chance to nip this thing in the bud. Yes it would cost a few billion and take some manpower but nothing compared to the trillions we are pumping into our crippled economy.

    Instead Trump to this day denies the extent of the problem and refuses to set an example by wearing a mask, a recommendation from his own CDC.
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    Originally Posted by cheerioboo View Post
    its undeniable that Trump has blood on his hands, he didnt do nothing as far as closing up the country and talk common sense, instead he talked about injecting bleach and that he knows more than the doctors. he is an absolute retard.
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    Originally Posted by TheLaughingCow2 View Post
    The issue isn't that Trump did something wrong... he just didn't do much of anything. He left the borders open when Corona was spreading across the world and downplayed the problem. What he didn't do:

    1) Close the borders to European countries where the virus was spreading rapidly, until it was too late and the virus was already in the US.

    to this day trump is brainwashing his low iq followers with this “china travel ban” when in reality it was pure trash. it wasn’t even a real ban, he let planes from certain areas like shanghai enter on american land without a break. other countries acted much faster and put stricter bans on china. this retard let planes from europe russia india brazil literally the whole planet come in without any issues. i could facepalm into oblivion and the majority of his dumb followers just believe everything he says without questioning a thing, shows you how manipulative and weak people are.
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    Trump 2020
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    Originally Posted by TheLaughingCow2 View Post
    The issue isn't that Trump did something wrong... he just didn't do much of anything. What he didn't do:
    1) Close the borders to European countries where the virus was spreading rapidly, until it was too late and the virus was already in the US.
    2) Tell citizens to wear a mask. Evidence is that a mask helps but even if it doesn't it's not doing any harm. It's a small sacrifice to avoid spreading disease.
    3) Implement contact tracing and testing for anyone who entered the US prior to November 2019.
    If he had done this there would have been a very good chance to nip this thing in the bud.
    Thanks, not sure I agree but it's always good when people list things out and make a cohesive point VS the more ambiguous "Trump is responsible! look at all the dead!" kinds of non-arguments.

    Trump probably should have closed the borders to Europe at the same time - although honestly in hindsight, either action would have needed to been taken much earlier (I don't think locking down a border once it's here matters as much).

    Is he playing politics with the Masking? I've noticed this one is more recent. It's come after the initial lockdown, which ruined the economy, then many of the same voices (in media, some 'experts' and such) applauding and encouraging the protests/riots. I think that made him throw up his hands and say it's all bullchit -- I know that was my reaction and the reaction of a lot of people at that time. I also think it's the wrong thing, he probably should be encouraging people to mask if it helps. Even if it doesn't help much, maybe it might make people feel better and feel less afraid, which as a leader he should be considering. It might also help people get out and do more, something the economy needs.

    #3 Like I said, cat's out of the bag, I think overall testing-wise we're ahead of the curve compared to most countries. I know I had zero problems getting tested just yesterday. Took an appointment (made on Tuesday) but insurance was fine, the process was easy, etc...

    ... Overall, you make good points. I don't think you're overly off base with anything, my push back to you -- Is your argument or belief that Trump could have done better? That he made some mistakes along the way? OR, are you suggesting as I see quite often, that he completely failed, he is completely responsible for the spread and that he did an absolutely terrible job in handling this?

    IMO, I feel like for many people, they see what they want to see. Maybe I'm biased because I tend to support Trump, but I see a novel situation, a new viral outbreak, I see mixed messages and outright lies from the WHO, I saw a lot of outlets talking about it in early 2020 dismissing it, I did not see anyone taking it seriously up until about the same time Trump did, I see a lot of people who directly ARE responsible for a lot of this (either by insane grouping of elderly and exposing them intentionally, lying for China, China knowing about it and allowing it to spread, etc)...

    ... so why do they rail about Trump over all these others?

    Yeah, buck stops with him, but he's also a President, not a Dictator. He doesn't control China. He doesn't control WHO spreading propaganda misinformation. Nobody had a clue and while he did things wrong and still could be doing better in some ways, I don't get some of the people who make it out as his entire fault and that he did everything so badly. That's just not true.
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    "Massive Failure" is an understatement OP.
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    No Agony, No Bragony JUSA's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by NYPat View Post
    "Massive Failure" is an understatement OP.
    Yes, just not on Trump's part.

    If you argue he did things wrong, was a failure even, I would listen, but clearly here you just dislike/hate Trump and are assigning blame to him based off of that.

    As I said above, where I conceded mistakes and failures of Trump on certain things, you also consider:
    - Nobody was taking it seriously initially
    - The WHO was lying about it initially
    - China knew and allowed it to spread early on (outside of China, only)
    - Not just Cuomo but a handful of Gov's sent old people to their deaths, which is insane
    - The MSM has been utterly irresponsible throughout this

    I don't think Trump failed outright. I think he did okay in some areas, meh in others and poorly in a couple.

    Nothing he did approaches knowingly lying about it not being human-to-human transmittable in the early days. Nothing he did approaches locking down internal travel because you knew it was bad but allowed international flights in and out. Nothing approaches sending old people back knowing they were sick. Nothing approaches using it as a way to get ratings. Nothing approaches pretending it doesn't exist because of BLM.

    There is a lot of blame, Trump gets his share, but please.
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    kein mitleid fr mehrheit Stizzel's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Tha big kahoona View Post
    3 of the worst countries at handling the pandemic:

    1) US. Trump
    2) UK. Boris Mini Trump Johnson
    3) Brazil. Jair Tropical Trump Bolsonaro
    You think these places all got hit worse than Italy? That's interesting. I haven't heard about hospitals in the US turning people away because they're over capacity.

    I do wonder what our numbers would be like if the people heading up our epicenters weren't mandating covid be put into nursing homes though.
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    Originally Posted by SillieBazzillie View Post
    Literally the worst response in the entire world and the cult will defend it. How many americans have to die? How many countries have to successfully open up? How low do the EUs cases have to go before the cult will admit there's a nose on their stupid faces?

    Astounding
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    "Leadership: Whatever happens, you're responsible. If it doesn't happen, you're responsible."

    - Donald J. Trump, November 8, 2013
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    Originally Posted by JUSA View Post
    Yes, just not on Trump's part.

    If you argue he did things wrong, was a failure even, I would listen, but clearly here you just dislike/hate Trump and are assigning blame to him based off of that.

    As I said above, where I conceded mistakes and failures of Trump on certain things, you also consider:
    - Nobody was taking it seriously initially
    - The WHO was lying about it initially
    - China knew and allowed it to spread early on (outside of China, only)
    - Not just Cuomo but a handful of Gov's sent old people to their deaths, which is insane
    - The MSM has been utterly irresponsible throughout this

    I don't think Trump failed outright. I think he did okay in some areas, meh in others and poorly in a couple.

    Nothing he did approaches knowingly lying about it not being human-to-human transmittable in the early days. Nothing he did approaches locking down internal travel because you knew it was bad but allowed international flights in and out. Nothing approaches sending old people back knowing they were sick. Nothing approaches using it as a way to get ratings. Nothing approaches pretending it doesn't exist because of BLM.

    There is a lot of blame, Trump gets his share, but please.
    Lmao. Where do I even start? How about demanding ALL schools reopen or he'll withhold funding? Nothing based on how areas are doing or number of active cases.. just.. fuk it, everyone must reopen or else.

    All while he gives no guidance and demands the CDC ease up on their guidelines..

    Trump is an absolute joke and deserves ALL the blame he gets.
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    How bout no...
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    Originally Posted by ceizer1985 View Post
    "Leadership: Whatever happens, you're responsible. If it doesn't happen, you're responsible."

    - Donald J. Trump, November 8, 2013
    So glad we have a president that was able to take decisive action instead of some liberal talking about how racist travel bans are and we should all go out to china town

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    at this point, why would i believe anything the tells me about covid
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    Originally Posted by RamataKahn View Post
    There is no cult, you don't even know what one is.
    Charles Mansons followers felt the same way and didn’t realize it until it was way way too late. Jim Jones followers didn’t believe they were in a cult until after they drank that kool-aid.
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    Originally Posted by RamataKahn View Post
    There is no cult, you don't even know what one is.
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    Definitely not a cult...
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    Originally Posted by KINGFABIAN View Post
    Charles Mansons followers felt the same way and didn’t realize it until it was way way too late. Jim Jones followers didn’t believe they were in a cult until after they drank that kool-aid.
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