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    Question Too much volume?? 100-200 sets on push and pull days

    So I’ve toyed around with plenty of different set and rep ranges for each workout over the years but one thing that has stayed consistent is my supposedly high overall volume. I currently do a push pull legs with the week split into strength and hypertrophy workouts. Keeping it simple at 5/5 days and 8/8 days. Usually consisting of about 20-30 different exercises. Push example 6 chest, 6 tricep, and 6 shoulder exercises respectively. I just feel like any less and I’m missing out of my full training potential, but I’ve noticed there are people who do far less and look much better? I don’t feel overtrained just underdeveloped so what gives??
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    Moderator SuffolkPunch's Avatar
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    Lack of exertion.

    If you truly take early sets to 1 rep before failure - or even failure, it makes them much more effective - and doing lots more afterwards either leads to overreaching or your performance just drops down so far as to make them not worth doing (junk volume)
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    Makes sense

    Originally Posted by SuffolkPunch View Post
    Lack of exertion.

    If you truly take early sets to 1 rep before failure - or even failure, it makes them much more effective - and doing lots more afterwards either leads to overreaching or your performance just drops down so far as to make them not worth doing (junk volume)
    I tend to go till failure on last set but often don’t rest much between sets because I like high intensity so perhaps my failure isn’t as true as it’s seems
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    100-200 sets/workout isn't "supposedly" high volume, and tinkering constantly with your routine to the point where you may do 100 sets more or less on certain days doesn't sound effective.

    You probably could do 12-25 hard sets/workout and get better results, and have free time to enjoy your last year as a teenager.
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    Han shot first! TolerantLactose's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by insanmiac View Post
    I tend to go till failure on last set but often don’t rest much between sets because I like high intensity so perhaps my failure isn’t as true as it’s seems
    It's actually very low intensity. You're essentially doing cardio with that many sets.
    I can tell time. Time cannot tell me.

    Formerly LactoseTolerant. I'm not very imaginative.
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    Thumbs up

    Originally Posted by air2fakie View Post
    100-200 sets/workout isn't "supposedly" high volume, and tinkering constantly with your routine to the point where you may do 100 sets more or less on certain days doesn't sound effective.

    You probably could do 12-25 hard sets/workout and get better results, and have free time to enjoy your last year as a teenager.
    My main problem is narrowing down the exercises I do, also I enjoy the gym so I don’t mind spending time there
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    Registered User insanmiac's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    Originally Posted by TolerantLactose View Post
    It's actually very low intensity. You're essentially doing cardio with that many sets.
    Should I go back to doing 4 sets of 8-12 reps and on heavy days 4 sets of 6? That’s what I used to do. Either way my overall sets would still be high due to having around 30 exercises. Will you help me narrow them down? I appreciate the reply’s brother
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    How much do you squat/bench/deadlift?
    I can tell time. Time cannot tell me.

    Formerly LactoseTolerant. I'm not very imaginative.
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    Registered User insanmiac's Avatar
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    Talking

    Originally Posted by TolerantLactose View Post
    How much do you squat/bench/deadlift?
    My marine recruiter has told me to stop heavy deadlifts and squat recently because I ship to bootcamp in a few weeks but my max bench is 205, max deadlift is 405 and Squat is 225
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    Originally Posted by insanmiac View Post
    I ship to bootcamp in a few weeks
    Then there's not much you can do.

    Your maxes are pretty low and I'd have to say that the volume you do has held you back.
    I can tell time. Time cannot tell me.

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    Originally Posted by TolerantLactose View Post
    Then there's not much you can do.

    Your maxes are pretty low and I'd have to say that the volume you do has held you back.
    Haha ouch brother I mean you aren’t wrong but I’m only 140lb tops
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    Originally Posted by insanmiac View Post
    My main problem is narrowing down the exercises I do, also I enjoy the gym so I don’t mind spending time there
    Take a look at any of the intermediate/advanced routines in the stickies on the Workout forum page. They’ve narrowed it down for you, or at least should give you an idea of how to cut yours down and what is appropriate volume for lifters even beyond your level.

    Don’t be that guy we see always see in the gym no matter what random time we pop in even on a weekend. If your extra time in the gym isn’t helping, you should care.
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    Well, there's a different in sets vs hard sets and difference in sets, in the context of exercises. For most people, the most proven and sustainable method of progression is to perform hard sets reaching close to failure, mainly compound lifts, with isolation work as secondary. Go balls out and let yourself recover and grow. Come back and strive to go harder the next session.

    Too many people try to create their own problems without the necessary experience to do so (I'm guilty I'm guilty).
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    With the focus you currently have to develop your body, I think you're doing well with the approach. For more results, I would try increasing my carbohydrate intake with the same workout schedule you have. Also, try to shorten your rest breaks between exercise sets to enhance the fatigue you are desiring to experience; you should end up doing less sets and get more results due to efficiency. Be advised, the amount of weight you'll be
    lifting will change because your carbs increased; this means you'll want to lift heavier naturally since the weights will feel lighter. On the other note, be mindful of how large your muscles get. Sometimes we can get too muscular compared to our frames and decide to cut back. Since volume may be important to you, monitor your muscle growth and find a image that's comfortable and easy to maintain for life. Have fun my friend!
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    Originally Posted by Nicksosure1 View Post
    Well, there's a different in sets vs hard sets and difference in sets, in the context of exercises. For most people, the most proven and sustainable method of progression is to perform hard sets reaching close to failure, mainly compound lifts, with isolation work as secondary. Go balls out and let yourself recover and grow. Come back and strive to go harder the next session.

    Too many people try to create their own problems without the necessary experience to do so (I'm guilty I'm guilty).
    I don't entirely agree, recently the consensus within the scientific training community has split a bit more as we have more and more data showing strength and size results with lower intensities.

    6sets at 4 rir is probably just as valuable as 3 @8 for example. And probably less fatiguing.

    For strength I would say the former is probably more valuable most of the time. For pure size I'm not sure yet and would probably hedge my bets by doing lower and high rpe work.

    I do not like Israetel volume and intensity ramps at all, I don't think the build up too super fatigue and then deload it is justified.
    It's based on supercompensation theories which I don't think necessarily justify applying it that way.
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    Originally Posted by MarcusFitPro View Post
    With the focus you currently have to develop your body, I think you're doing well with the approach. For more results, I would try increasing my carbohydrate intake with the same workout schedule you have. Also, try to shorten your rest breaks between exercise sets to enhance the fatigue you are desiring to experience; you should end up doing less sets and get more results due to efficiency. Be advised, the amount of weight you'll be
    lifting will change because your carbs increased; this means you'll want to lift heavier naturally since the weights will feel lighter. On the other note, be mindful of how large your muscles get. Sometimes we can get too muscular compared to our frames and decide to cut back. Since volume may be important to you, monitor your muscle growth and find a image that's comfortable and easy to maintain for life. Have fun my friend!
    No, just no to all of that, he is doing too much unnecessary volume, too many unnecessary exercises. Eating more carbs is not going to change that

    He could achieve the same and much likely better results with a program with drastically reduced volume and increased intensity with a structured progression.
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    Originally Posted by WolfRose7 View Post
    I don't entirely agree, recently the consensus within the scientific training community has split a bit more as we have more and more data showing strength and size results with lower intensities.

    6sets at 4 rir is probably just as valuable as 3 @8 for example. And probably less fatiguing.

    For strength I would say the former is probably more valuable most of the time. For pure size I'm not sure yet and would probably hedge my bets by doing lower and high rpe work.

    I do not like Israetel volume and intensity ramps at all, I don't think the build up too super fatigue and then deload it is justified.
    It's based on supercompensation theories which I don't think necessarily justify applying it that way.
    I can feel that. I just know based on my experience, I've always had better results by reaching fewer sets with higher intensity. It seemed to send more of a muscle-building signal to make the body adapt vs. doing high volume, less fatiguing, lighter work at less intensity.

    With that being said, I have been focusing on strength regain after a long, overdrawn and improper 170lb cut that zapped me of a lot of muscle and strength for the past couple years, so that might lend itself to your point about the former being more conducive to that goal.
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    Originally Posted by SuffolkPunch View Post
    Lack of exertion.

    If you truly take early sets to 1 rep before failure - or even failure, it makes them much more effective - and doing lots more afterwards either leads to overreaching or your performance just drops down so far as to make them not worth doing (junk volume)
    This
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    First i would listen to your recruiter.
    The DI won't ask you how much bench or deadlift.
    I'd be focusing on push ups ,pull ups,sit ups and running if i was headed to boot camp.

    With the volume thing on your weight training you may want to cut down and increase intensity on your sets.
    Training to get maximally strong or for muscle hypertrophy are really to different paths.
    Sure both can complement each other and have some benefits for strength and muscle growth but to get the most out of them you need to focus on one or the other or you'll stay mediocre at both.
    If you train intensely every set for hypertrophy you shouldn't have enough left in you for the volume of sets your doing.
    Rotate exercises every month or two instead of doing them all in your session.
    Strength training for the most part is lower volume less reps working to move max weight on a lift from point A to point B.
    Both protocols require recovery to get the most out of your training.
    The right amounts of protein and nutrient rich foods are a must.
    A training and diet log are very important IMO.
    Good luck.
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    Originally Posted by Nicksosure1 View Post
    I can feel that. I just know based on my experience, I've always had better results by reaching fewer sets with higher intensity. It seemed to send more of a muscle-building signal to make the body adapt vs. doing high volume, less fatiguing, lighter work at less intensity.

    With that being said, I have been focusing on strength regain after a long, overdrawn and improper 170lb cut that zapped me of a lot of muscle and strength for the past couple years, so that might lend itself to your point about the former being more conducive to that goal.
    That's fair, as I said I'm on the fence for pure hypertrophy work (though that's not really a thing either.. so.. hmm).

    A point of nuance about lower RPE work, for others more than yourself.
    6 sets of 3 @7 as an example, should still be high effort, as you should be moving each rep as explosively as possible while being in control.

    I think the biggest problem with low intensity work is it requires concentrated effort to not be lazy about moving light weight, it should still be purposeful and not casual
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    Dont listen to these guys. You bench ****ing 205 pounds! I am certain after bootcamp you are slated for Tier 1 School right away!
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    Originally Posted by MarcusFitPro View Post
    With the focus you currently have to develop your body, I think you're doing well with the approach. For more results, I would try increasing my carbohydrate intake with the same workout schedule you have. Also, try to shorten your rest breaks between exercise sets to enhance the fatigue you are desiring to experience; you should end up doing less sets and get more results due to efficiency. Be advised, the amount of weight you'll be
    lifting will change because your carbs increased; this means you'll want to lift heavier naturally since the weights will feel lighter. On the other note, be mindful of how large your muscles get. Sometimes we can get too muscular compared to our frames and decide to cut back. Since volume may be important to you, monitor your muscle growth and find a image that's comfortable and easy to maintain for life. Have fun my friend!
    How the fuk did you get a masters in exercise phys
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    Originally Posted by WolfRose7 View Post
    That's fair, as I said I'm on the fence for pure hypertrophy work (though that's not really a thing either.. so.. hmm).

    A point of nuance about lower RPE work, for others more than yourself.
    6 sets of 3 @7 as an example, should still be high effort, as you should be moving each rep as explosively as possible while being in control.

    I think the biggest problem with low intensity work is it requires concentrated effort to not be lazy about moving light weight, it should still be purposeful and not casual
    Agreed on all points there.

    One thing I do with lighter loads is actually slow everything down. Eccentric, concentric, overall rep/set time to ensure I am connecting to the muscle I'm trying to work, which I suppose lends itself to your point of being purposeful with what you are doing. But really, that should be at any RPE and any load when targeting muscle gain.
    Life is constant learning. Give advice about things you know. Ask questions about things you don't.

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    Originally Posted by DCSpartan View Post
    Dont listen to these guys. You bench ****ing 205 pounds! I am certain after bootcamp you are slated for Tier 1 School right away!
    Thanks brother I know it’s not much but I primarily do incline dumbbell and push-up variations so I was pretty proud of my numbers. I’v maxed out my IST for my age and I lead the PT at our poolie functions I’m more into functional strength this summer
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    Originally Posted by Garage Rat View Post
    First i would listen to your recruiter.
    The DI won't ask you how much bench or deadlift.
    I'd be focusing on push ups ,pull ups,sit ups and running if i was headed to boot camp.

    With the volume thing on your weight training you may want to cut down and increase intensity on your sets.
    Training to get maximally strong or for muscle hypertrophy are really to different paths.
    Sure both can complement each other and have some benefits for strength and muscle growth but to get the most out of them you need to focus on one or the other or you'll stay mediocre at both.
    If you train intensely every set for hypertrophy you shouldn't have enough left in you for the volume of sets your doing.
    Rotate exercises every month or two instead of doing them all in your session.
    Strength training for the most part is lower volume less reps working to move max weight on a lift from point A to point B.
    Both protocols require recovery to get the most out of your training.
    The right amounts of protein and nutrient rich foods are a must.
    A training and diet log are very important IMO.
    Good luck.
    Thanks for all the advice brother. I do loads of push up variations and have maxed out my IST everything else at the moment is just for fun. Currently track my calories and protein mainly as well as keep track of my max weight on each exercise. I agree I’m spreading myself to thin. As always appreciate the constructive feedback💪🏻 I leave august 3rd wish me luck
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