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    Slippery Slope Theory (from ze German perspective)

    Originally Posted by They Thought They Were Free by Milton Mayer
    One doesn't see exactly where or how to move. Believe me, this is true. Each act, each occasion, is worse than the last, but only by a little worse... You wait for one great shocking occasion, thinking that others, when such a shock comes, will join with you in resisting somehow...

    But the one great shocking occasion, when tens or hundreds or thousands will join with you, never comes. That's the difficulty. If the last and worse act of the whole regime had come immediately after the first and smallest, thousands, yes, millions would have been sufficient shocked... But of course this isn't the way it happens. In between comes all the hundreds of little steps, some of them imperceptible, each of them preparing you not to be shocked by the next...

    And one day, too late, your principles, if you were ever sensible of them, all rush in upon you. The burden of self-deception has grown too heavy, and some minor incident . . . collapses it all at once, and you see that everything - everything has changed... Now you live in a world of hate and fear, and the people who hate and fear do not even know it themselves; when everyone is transformed, no one is transformed..."
    This quote above from 'They Thought They Were Free' reminds me a lot of the slippery slope argument I see a lot here. It also reminds me of what's currently happening. We expect to see a lot of people rising up to these shocking things that are happening, but in reality we are becoming desensitized to them so the next thing that happens won't be as crazy. And we are already at a ridiculously crazy level. The past few months have really opened up the flood gates, so to speak.
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    Originally Posted by lolpotatos View Post
    Running water, electricity, most people unemployed. Take away one of those things and you'lll get your sudden reaction.
    I see what you're saying but I think the point is that it doesn't have to get to that point before it's way, way too late.
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    Great snippet, but the very first sentence points out the problem we all face.


    “ One doesn't see exactly where or how to move. “


    It’s easy to point out problems(though even when doing that there will be disagreements). But what is the solution? If we are all in a bus that is heading towards a cliff then simply pointing out the cliff does nothing, even if the cliff is becoming easier and easier to see. No one seems to know how to stop, steer or really even slow the bus. And that is exactly how people in power want it, but again, what is the best way forward for individuals?
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    Originally Posted by lolpotatos View Post
    Running water, electricity, most people employed. Take away one of those things and you'lll get your sudden reaction.
    That might be coming at the end of this year.
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    Originally Posted by jtaylor2010 View Post
    Great snippet, but the very first sentence points out the problem we all face.


    “ One doesn't see exactly where or how to move. “


    It’s easy to point out problems(though even when doing that there will be disagreements). But what is the solution? If we are all in a bus that is heading towards a cliff then simply pointing out the cliff does nothing, even if the cliff is becoming easier and easier to see. No one seems to know how to stop, steer or really even slow the bus. And that is exactly how people in power want it, but again, what is the best way forward for individuals?
    Stay positive (positive crew). Tell the truth. Speak out when you see these things happening. Teach your children the best version of the truth you can muster. Vote for people who stand for the Constitution. For me this is about all I can do. I generally can't counter protest (I have a young child and am basically a single Dad), but that's an option.

    The alternative is to play the game back with the left currently. Begin "cancelling" them? I don't think that'll work and I think stooping to their level is a bad move for any sane individual on any part of the political spectrum.
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    Registered User olympiclfter's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by jtaylor2010 View Post
    Great snippet, but the very first sentence points out the problem we all face.


    “ One doesn't see exactly where or how to move. “
    A few quotes by America's Founders are pertinent to this discussion:

    "It is proper to take alarm at the first experiment on our liberties. We hold this prudent jealousy to be the first duty of citizens and one of the noblest characteristics of the late Revolution. The freemen of America did not wait till usurped power had strengthened itself by exercise and entangled the question in precedents. They saw all the consequences in the principle, and they avoided the consequences by denying the principle. We revere this lesson too much ... to forget it"- Madison

    "It is more convenient to prevent the passage of a law, than to declare it void after it has passed." - Madison

    "Let us remember that "if we suffer tamely a lawless attack upon our liberty, we encourage it, and involve others in our doom," it is a very serious consideration ... that millions yet unborn may be the miserable sharers of the event." - Samuel Adams

    I think they were right & when all three points are considered it seems clear to me that the proper time to take action is when an abridgment of our liberties is even hinted at. For instance if a politician or bureaucrat gets on t.v. and suggests that a certain abridgment must take place, then protests should happen within the week, the sooner the better. Those near D.C. should go, otherwise people should go to their respective State capitals. If the abridgment is suggest by a bureaucrat, the agency for which he works should also be protested.


    Originally Posted by jtaylor2010 View Post
    simply pointing out the cliff does nothing
    Pointing the cliff out may in fact be the most important thing. It is certainly a necessary prerequisite to any action. What seems obvious to you may not be obvious to others. Also people engage in group conformity, and will convince themselves that the cliff doesn't even exist. Look up the Asch Conformity experiments. Speaking out may give others the courage to speak out. It may also help create an us vs. them state of mind where people begin seeing the political class as them (see the Stanford Prison experiments & Robbers Cave experiments)


    Originally Posted by jtaylor2010 View Post
    No one seems to know how to stop, steer or really even slow the bus.

    Valid point. It would seem prudent to start by analyzing the techniques used to get us here in the first place. Learn community organizing and see if there is anything that can be applied toward reversing the loss of liberty. Large, loud swaths of the citizenry must demand that all infringements must cease. If the political class continues its infringements, the mob must be convinced that a refusal to comply is not simply justified, but is also the duty of a citizen. Noncompliance & blatant defiance, along with State nullification was used to circumvent the Fugitive Slave acts. Like wise noncompliance, blatant defiance & State nullification was used to end Prohibition, CBT, MMJ and now being use for recreation MJ.

    “If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and yet depreciate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground. They want rain without thunder and lightning. They want the ocean without the awful roar of its many waters. This struggle may be a moral one; or it may be a physical one; or it may be both moral and physical; but it must be a struggle. Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will.” -
    Frederick Douglass
    Last edited by olympiclfter; 07-09-2020 at 01:54 PM.
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    Originally Posted by olympiclfter View Post
    A few quotes by America's Founders are pertinent to this discussion:

    "It is proper to take alarm at the first experiment on our liberties. We hold this prudent jealousy to be the first duty of citizens and one of the noblest characteristics of the late Revolution. The freemen of America did not wait till usurped power had strengthened itself by exercise and entangled the question in precedents. They saw all the consequences in the principle, and they avoided the consequences by denying the principle. We revere this lesson too much ... to forget it"- Madison

    "It is more convenient to prevent the passage of a law, than to declare it void after it has passed." - Madison

    "Let us remember that "if we suffer tamely a lawless attack upon our liberty, we encourage it, and involve others in our doom," it is a very serious consideration ... that millions yet unborn may be the miserable sharers of the event." - Samuel Adams

    I think they were right & when all three points are considered it seems clear to me that the proper time to take action is when an abridgment of our liberties is even hinted at. For instance if a politician or bureaucrat get on t.v. and that a certain abridgment must take place, then protests should happen within the week, the sooner the better. Those near D.C. should go, otherwise people should go to their respective State capitals. If the abridgment is suggest by a bureaucrat, the agency for which he works should also be protested.




    Pointing the cliff out may in fact be the most important thing. It is certainly a necessary prerequisite to any action. What seems obvious to you may not be obvious to others. Also people engage in group conformity, and will convince themselves that the cliff doesn't even exist. Look up the Asch Conformity experiments. Speaking out may give others the courage to speak out. It may also help create an us vs. them state of mind where people begin seeing the political class as them (see the Stanford Prison experiments & Robbers Cave experiments)




    Valid point. It would seem prudent to start by analyzing the techniques used to get us here in the first place. Learn community organizing and see if there is anything that can be applied toward reversing the loss of liberty. Large, loud swaths of the citizenry must demand that all infringements must cease. If political class continues its infringements, the mob must be convinced that a refusal to comply is not simply justified, but is also the duty of a citizen to do so. Noncompliance & blatant defiance, along with State nullification was used to circumvent the Fugitive Slave acts. Like wise noncompliance, blatant defiance & State nullification was used to end Prohibition, CBT, MMJ and now being use for recreation MJ.

    “If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and yet depreciate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground. They want rain without thunder and lightning. They want the ocean without the awful roar of its many waters. This struggle may be a moral one; or it may be a physical one; or it may be both moral and physical; but it must be a struggle. Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will.” -
    Frederick Douglass
    Good post and insights. Based off what you said, it might be too late.

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    Originally Posted by BredRoller View Post
    Good post and insights. Based off what you said, it might be too late.

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    Sadly you may be correct. I think at this juncture it would require massive action to stem the tide, and not enough people seem motivated to take such action, even among those who see the problem.
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    It's also the boiling frog fable combined with some gaslighting. People can see what's happening, they resist at the voting polls.
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    Originally Posted by plsmire View Post
    It's also the boiling frog fable combined with some gaslighting. People can see what's happening, they resist at the voting polls.
    I haven't heard of boiling frog. Interesting
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    Registered User olympiclfter's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by plsmire View Post
    they resist at the voting polls.
    You're right, but too often here in the US voting is, in my opinion, over emphasized. We should vote, but both of our parties have been taken over and are mostly the same. The neocons agree with the dems on most issues, and aside from abortion, they only disagree minor details. So we can vote for the lesser of 2 evils, but either party will take you to basically the same place; one just takes you there quicker. Which is why at some point resistance must come in the form of mass noncompliance. I would argue that here in the US (I don't know enough about your situation to have an opinion.) we are more than justified in refusing to comply with most laws. But most people aren't yet mentally prepared to consider such an option. And when noncompliance is only being practiced by a few, those few will get hammered by the State. So the idea of noncompliance must be popularized before it can be put into effect.
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    Amazing passage. And great thread man. Strangely enough I presumed you were contextualizing the passage through the lens of a leftist, because it articulated some thoughts I've had recently. Which further evokes how fractured we have become.
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