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    Do people with an already high BF% only get more Fat when they Bulk?

    I heard somewhere that when you already have an high BF %, that you are predestined to gain more fat then muscle.

    Can someone explain?
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    Originally Posted by humbaga21 View Post
    I heard somewhere that when you already have an high BF %, that you are predestined to gain more fat then muscle.

    Can someone explain?
    You will not necessarily gain more fat than muscle if you keep weight gain to only 2 pounds a MONTH and lift hard and heavy at the gym, following a good full body routine with built in progression scheme. However, if you really have "high body fat" you'd probably better served lifting with a moderate CUT in calories, losing 4 pounds a MONTH or so.
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    Originally Posted by CommitmentRulz View Post
    You will not necessarily gain more fat than muscle if you keep weight gain to only 2 pounds a MONTH and lift hard and heavy at the gym, following a good full body routine with built in progression scheme. However, if you really have "high body fat" you'd probably better served lifting with a moderate CUT in calories, losing 4 pounds a MONTH or so.

    Interesting, thank you!
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    Originally Posted by humbaga21 View Post
    Interesting, thank you!
    I should have noted that you WILL gain fat, even at a 2 pound per month weight gain, just not necessarily more fat than muscle.
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    Registered User Strawng's Avatar
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    In addition to what’s been said, having higher body fat (generally above 15% or so for men) makes you more insulin resistant. Insulin resistance makes your body more likely to partition nutrients to body fat as opposed to muscle. This is why it’s not recommended for men to go much higher than 15 or 20% body fat at the most on a bulk before cutting back down.
    Last edited by Strawng; 06-29-2020 at 03:51 PM.
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    Originally Posted by Strawng View Post
    In addition to what’s been said, having higher body fat (generally above 15% or so for men) makes you more insulin resistant. Insulin resistance makes your body more likely to partition nutrients to body fat as opposed to muscle. This is why it’s not recommended for men to go much higher than 15 or 20% body fat at the most on a bulk before cutting back down.
    what about women
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    Registered User Strawng's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by snailsrus View Post
    what about women
    About 25%. Here’s a pretty good breakdown of it from Legion: https://legionathletics.com/cut-or-bulk/
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    Originally Posted by Strawng View Post
    In addition to what’s been said, having higher body fat (generally above 15% or so for men) makes you more insulin resistant. Insulin resistance makes your body more likely to partition nutrients to body fat as opposed to muscle. This is why it’s not recommended for men to go much higher than 15 or 20% body fat at the most on a bulk before cutting back down.
    This was exactly what I was looking for! But you can still gain more muscle then fat right?

    Also, does insuline resistance cause sleepiness?
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    Originally Posted by humbaga21 View Post
    This was exactly what I was looking for! But you can still gain more muscle then fat right?

    Also, does insuline resistance cause sleepiness?
    Keep digging that hole.
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    Originally Posted by Strawng View Post
    About 25%. Here’s a pretty good breakdown of it from Legion: https://legionathletics.com/cut-or-bulk/
    i wonder how accurate the bf calculator is, getting a free dexa scan soon
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    Gaintaining Mrpb's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by humbaga21 View Post
    I heard somewhere that when you already have an high BF %, that you are predestined to gain more fat then muscle.

    Can someone explain?
    That's pretty accurate. As mentioned the decreasing insulin sensitivity at higher body fat and decreasing sensitivity to protein makes it more likely you'll gain progressively more fat than muscle. Also inflammation tends to go up as you get fatter. Forget about making lean gains.

    But why would an already fatter person even eat a surplus? They'd be far better off eating at maintenance or a small deficit. They can still build muscle.
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    Originally Posted by Strawng View Post
    In addition to what’s been said, having higher body fat (generally above 15% or so for men) makes you more insulin resistant. Insulin resistance makes your body more likely to partition nutrients to body fat as opposed to muscle. This is why it’s not recommended for men to go much higher than 15 or 20% body fat at the most on a bulk before cutting back down.
    I always use a general rule of thumb that if I were to have basically no discernible ab definition (save for maybe a single vertical line down the central ab region), best not to be 'bulking' in the traditional sense. Better to recomp, slow cut, etc...

    If I have good ab definition, but I'm not 'super' defined such that I see lower ab veins, deep definition between each abdominal, and a 'dry' look, that is a solid place to be for a nice slow bulk.

    If I'm way too lean for my own good... so anything at or below 10%.... yeah... just bulk at a reasonable rate and once you get to around 12% you can slow it down and then cruise until you get to a point where recomp/slow cut makes sense.




    IMO being at somewhere between 12%-16% for most people is a perfect range where you'll have good hunger regulation, good health markers, good sleep, and enough fat to cushion your joints such that you can make solid progress without hitting that point of worsening insulin sensitivity.

    Coincidentally, this is also probably the range that the general public would see as most 'fit' and healthy looking, even if bodybuilding standards would probably see it as 'soft' ;o)
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    Originally Posted by Mrpb View Post
    That's pretty accurate. As mentioned the decreasing insulin sensitivity at higher body fat and decreasing sensitivity to protein makes it more likely you'll gain progressively more fat than muscle. Also inflammation tends to go up as you get fatter. Forget about making lean gains.

    But why would an already fatter person even eat a surplus? They'd be far better off eating at maintenance or a small deficit. They can still build muscle.
    Because I think at a small surplus like 150-200, there'll be very minimal fat gains, yet your strength/size should continue to grow (albeit slower than a 500kcal surplus). In short for more muscle gains and then cut even though you are at a high BF %.
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    Originally Posted by humbaga21 View Post
    Because I think at a small surplus like 150-200, there'll be very minimal fat gains, yet your strength/size should continue to grow (albeit slower than a 500kcal surplus). In short for more muscle gains and then cut even though you are at a high BF %.
    It's as if you didn't actually read the replies.
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    Your question was about “bulking”. Now if it was in regards to a hypertrophy phase it could be slightly different answers.
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    Originally Posted by Strawng View Post
    In addition to what’s been said, having higher body fat (generally above 15% or so for men) makes you more insulin resistant. Insulin resistance makes your body more likely to partition nutrients to body fat as opposed to muscle. This is why it’s not recommended for men to go much higher than 15 or 20% body fat at the most on a bulk before cutting back down.
    This is a good explanation. I would tweak it slightly by saying that people with insulin resistance tend to get fatter easier. So that means being fat is just an indicator that you won't build lean tissue as effectively - but there are still people who are fat without having IR and who can build muscle well (e.g strongmen, rugby players etc)

    Dieting down can help with nutrient partitioning but this might be because it improves IR problems rather than being lean always being a requirement for efficient muscle building.
    Last edited by SuffolkPunch; 06-30-2020 at 12:30 AM.
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    Originally Posted by humbaga21 View Post
    Because I think at a small surplus like 150-200, there'll be very minimal fat gains, yet your strength/size should continue to grow (albeit slower than a 500kcal surplus). In short for more muscle gains and then cut even though you are at a high BF %.
    It's like you didn't even comprehend the previous points. Overfeeding in overweight individuals decreases insulin sensitivity, decreases protein sensitivity and increases inflammation. To put it in simple words: your chances of making lean gains while overfeeding with high body fat are close to zero.

    You're apparently believing that a surplus is necessary to gain muscle: this is also false. Even more so if you have higher body fat.
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