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  1. #31
    Registered User Bobdabuilder1's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by TolerantLactose View Post
    If you want messed up elbows, it's superb.
    Originally Posted by TolerantLactose View Post
    That's one awful looking routine. I'm starting to think troll.
    Originally Posted by TolerantLactose View Post
    I'm not criticizing.
    Sorry about that, I must have mistook your comments for criticism
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  2. #32
    Registered User jaxqen's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by air2fakie View Post
    On its face it’s different - aside from the fact shrugs have nothing to do with what he says he wants, and you don’t need cables to do face pulls btw.

    Most importantly, a program is more than just a list of exercises.
    True, you need a band and something strong to hold the band. But since he mentioned only dumbells.

    And again true, is more than just a list of exercises.
    But in his case I don't see how Fierce 5 could help him, since he only wants chest, delts, arms.

    He needs:
    - dumbell bench press
    - dumbell shoulder press
    - dumbell bicep curls
    - dumbell tricep extensions

    I would add dumbell lateral raises and dumbell bent-over raises if he wants better shoulders. But since he doesn't care much about lats, I assume he doesn't care much about other muscles that you can only see in a mirror (posterior delt) so he probably needs only lateral raises. So 5 exercises, 3 times a week, should help him achieve his goal.

    Other musts (that Fierce 5 most probably has them too):
    - decent nutrition
    - correct form
    - progress in weight or reps
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  3. #33
    Registered User air2fakie's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by jaxqen View Post
    True, you need a band and something strong to hold the band. But since he mentioned only dumbells.
    You can do face pulls with dbs - although cable/bands is better IMO. We don't need to debate this.

    Originally Posted by jaxqen View Post
    And again true, is more than just a list of exercises.
    But in his case I don't see how Fierce 5 could help him, since he only wants chest, delts, arms.
    A program is also the order of exercises, which exercises you put on which days, the volume, and the progression. If you feel his routine does this (even for the limited exercises he picks) in an effective manner and he'll see good results, that's fine by me - no need to convince me I'm mistaken.
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  4. #34
    Registered User air2fakie's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Bobdabuilder1 View Post
    Lol, how tf did you see that as a left handed remark? I posted here asking for advice and people have taken time out of their day trying to give helpful advice. That being the case, I decided that it makes sense to take what I can out of that advice and put it to good use.

    I understand that the routine is at the moment imbalanced towards day 1 but if it's that awful, please can you explain what is so terrible about it as last nights workout felt great TBH.
    You're putting together routines without knowing anything about programming. They're poor routines both because they are imbalanced and the way you're programming them. It's kind of pointless to keep throwing out stuff and saying "tell me why it's bad", rather than doing a proper routine or at least taking the elements of a proper routine and customizing them intelligently on the few things you want to focus on.

    To be fair and in the end, it's your body and your workout so you should do whatever you feel like doing - it doesn't impact me at all.
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  5. #35
    Han shot first! TolerantLactose's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Bobdabuilder1 View Post
    Sorry about that, I must have mistook your comments for criticism
    What can I say except I was obviously wrong?
    I can tell time. Time cannot tell me.

    Formerly LactoseTolerant. I'm not very imaginative.
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  6. #36
    Registered User Bobdabuilder1's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by jaxqen View Post
    True, you need a band and something strong to hold the band. But since he mentioned only dumbells.

    And again true, is more than just a list of exercises.
    But in his case I don't see how Fierce 5 could help him, since he only wants chest, delts, arms.

    He needs:
    - dumbell bench press
    - dumbell shoulder press
    - dumbell bicep curls
    - dumbell tricep extensions

    I would add dumbell lateral raises and dumbell bent-over raises if he wants better shoulders. But since he doesn't care much about lats, I assume he doesn't care much about other muscles that you can only see in a mirror (posterior delt) so he probably needs only lateral raises. So 5 exercises, 3 times a week, should help him achieve his goal.

    Other musts (that Fierce 5 most probably has them too):
    - decent nutrition
    - correct form
    - progress in weight or reps

    I am happy to target lats as people have suggested it is necessary so I'll try to do that, I just hadn't found a suitable exercise but bent over dumbbell rows seem to do the job. I do want to work my traps which I never mentioned as I hadn't worked out that they don't come under shoulders. I really wanted to focus on arms as that's an area where I felt I wasn't seeing the results that I wanted to from the gym.

    I'm struggling to understand how fierce 5 would work for me as it has exercises that I can't do without equipment that I don't have and seems to focus a lot on leg work which I'm not particularly interested in doing until I can get back to the gym.

    I use protein shakes mixed with Huel powder and a little olive oil and try to eat a lot of meat, fish and veg. I try to make sure I fill myself up with nutrients after a workout and use supplements like creatine and beta alinine so I feel that my nutrition is OK.
    I do try to work on form and increasing weights but probably need to focus more on this.

    Rightly or wrongly, the exercises that you're suggesting that I need seem to make a lot more sense to me at the moment than attempting the fierce 5 routine without the proper equipment, thanks.


    Originally Posted by air2fakie View Post
    You're putting together routines without knowing anything about programming. They're poor routines both because they are imbalanced and the way you're programming them. It's kind of pointless to keep throwing out stuff and saying "tell me why it's bad", rather than doing a proper routine or at least taking the elements of a proper routine and customizing them intelligently on the few things you want to focus on.

    To be fair and in the end, it's your body and your workout so you should do whatever you feel like doing - it doesn't impact me at all.
    I don't mean to be dismissive, it's just that I can't do the fierce 5 dumbbell routine suggested as I don't have the equipment and it seems to focus a lot on leg work and not much on arms which is the opposite of what I was hoping to do whilst the gyms are closed.

    I literally don't have any options for a routine that I can do with dumbbells that will target the arms at the moment. I know I'm not owed an answer as to what is bad about the routine that I was doing but at the moment I'm not understanding how the fierce 5 dumbbell routine could work for me so if my plan really is that bad then it would be great to know what it is that's making it so bad so that I can at least try to improve it.


    Originally Posted by TolerantLactose View Post
    What can I say except I was obviously wrong?
    That's OK, hope you have a good day anyway.
    Last edited by Bobdabuilder1; 07-01-2020 at 08:54 AM.
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  7. #37
    Registered User paulinkansas's Avatar
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    When you do the dumb bell rows, do half of your working sets with your palms facing your body. Do the other half with your palms facing down. It just hits your back slightly different.
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  8. #38
    Registered User air2fakie's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Bobdabuilder1 View Post
    I literally don't have any options for a routine that I can do with dumbbells that will target the arms at the moment. I know I'm not owed an answer as to what is bad about the routine that I was doing but at the moment I'm not understanding how the fierce 5 dumbbell routine could work for me so if my plan really is that bad then it would be great to know what it is that's making it so bad so that I can at least try to improve it.
    It'll probably be more convincing and useful for you to learn first-hand whether you spin your wheels with your own programming. If you get the results you want, great. If not, re-read F5 and other novice programs in the stickies and try to see them as more than just a list of exercises - and ideally do them as is, or apply the principles you see there to your own routines even if you only want to focus on certain muscle groups. In the meantime, good luck and I hope it works out!
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  9. #39
    Registered User Bobdabuilder1's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by paulinkansas View Post
    When you do the dumb bell rows, do half of your working sets with your palms facing your body. Do the other half with your palms facing down. It just hits your back slightly different.
    Cheers, I've put a note on my spreadsheet to give that a go next Day 1.

    Originally Posted by air2fakie View Post
    It'll probably be more convincing and useful for you to learn first-hand whether you spin your wheels with your own programming. If you get the results you want, great. If not, re-read F5 and other novice programs in the stickies and try to see them as more than just a list of exercises - and ideally do them as is, or apply the principles you see there to your own routines even if you only want to focus on certain muscle groups. In the meantime, good luck and I hope it works out!
    Thanks man, I do appreciate the advice and I can understand why it would be better to follow a professionally developed fitness plan rather than hashing together my own random mishmash of exercises. At the moment I feel a bit limited with a couple of dumbbells but when I get back to the gym I'll make sure I start using a proper program. That said, I just took a few pictures of myself which I'll try to post in a sec and I realised I'm probably a prime example of why you really should follow a balanced program.
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  10. #40
    Registered User Bobdabuilder1's Avatar
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    OK, so I just took a few photos of myself and I think I've been doing this all wrong. I was wondering if I could get some extra opinions.

    1) Why TF am I trying to bulk when I've got titties and a beer belly that look like that? I need to try to start losing weight.
    2) My arms are already quite big in comparison to my tiny shoulders. I should really be focusing on building my shoulders.
    3) I just look totally out of proportion when I'm not flexing.

    Are you seeing what I'm seeing here? Am I being overly critical of myself or do I look massively out of proportion when I'm not flexing? I probably need to take a long hard look at myself and make sure that I never skip shoulder day again.
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  11. #41
    Registered User air2fakie's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Bobdabuilder1 View Post
    Are you seeing what I'm seeing here?
    The odd thing to me is that your head looks like it's photoshopped onto your body in all 3 pics - totally serious. Anyway, good luck whatever direction you choose to go in!
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  12. #42
    Registered User Nicksosure1's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Bobdabuilder1 View Post
    OK, so I just took a few photos of myself and I think I've been doing this all wrong. I was wondering if I could get some extra opinions.

    1) Why TF am I trying to bulk when I've got titties and a beer belly that look like that? I need to try to start losing weight.
    2) My arms are already quite big in comparison to my tiny shoulders. I should really be focusing on building my shoulders.
    3) I just look totally out of proportion when I'm not flexing.

    Are you seeing what I'm seeing here? Am I being overly critical of myself or do I look massively out of proportion when I'm not flexing? I probably need to take a long hard look at myself and make sure that I never skip shoulder day again.
    IMO you still need to focus on building at this point, just with a lowered intake. Try maintenance calories while focusing on progression within your program.

    You'll look a lot better, even if you lose 0 fat, if you gained a good bit more of muscle.
    Life is constant learning. Give advice about things you know. Ask questions about things you don't.

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  13. #43
    Registered User Bobdabuilder1's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by air2fakie View Post
    The odd thing to me is that your head looks like it's photoshopped onto your body in all 3 pics - totally serious. Anyway, good luck whatever direction you choose to go in!
    Lol, well if that's the first thing that you noticed then maybe I am being overly critical. But yeah, my head is definitely floating in the 3rd pic.


    Originally Posted by Nicksosure1 View Post
    IMO you still need to focus on building at this point, just with a lowered intake. Try maintenance calories while focusing on progression within your program.

    You'll look a lot better, even if you lose 0 fat, if you gained a good bit more of muscle.
    OK, cool thanks. I was seeing it differently when I looked at the photos but sometimes it's hard to judge your own photos. Maybe if I focus on filling up with nutrients after a workout but then eating less calories during the day, that might be a sensible balance.
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  14. #44
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    1. Many people here love Fierce 5

    2. It is a good workout for beginners, especially for strength goals

    3. Usually, its better to adopt a workout made by a pro

    4. Since you have dumbells, you can workout every major muscle in your body:
    - calves - raises with dumbells
    - glutes and quads - squats with dumbells
    - glutes and hams and inferior back - deadlifts with dumbells
    - lats - rows with dumbells
    - traps - shrugs with dumbells
    - chest - bench with dumbells
    well, you got the idea

    So the no equipment argument is not an excuse, sorry.
    But I get it, you want neglect legs and back (most people do)
    I am not trying to convince you otherwise

    Try your routine and see how it works
    My two cents:
    1. from your pics, you should be in a caloric deficit. Not much, don't starve yourself
    2. correct form and progressive overload (try to add more weight or do more reps when you feel the weight gets easier)
    3. I would focus on one exercise for each muscle group (again, the muscles groups you desire):

    - bench press - 6-8 reps
    - overhead press - 6-8 reps
    - curls - 8-12 reps
    - extensions - 8-12 reps
    - lateral raises 8-12 reps

    Ditch the sevens and the pressups and do some cardio instead
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  15. #45
    Registered User Bobdabuilder1's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by jaxqen View Post
    1. Many people here love Fierce 5

    2. It is a good workout for beginners, especially for strength goals

    3. Usually, its better to adopt a workout made by a pro

    4. Since you have dumbells, you can workout every major muscle in your body:
    - calves - raises with dumbells
    - glutes and quads - squats with dumbells
    - glutes and hams and inferior back - deadlifts with dumbells
    - lats - rows with dumbells
    - traps - shrugs with dumbells
    - chest - bench with dumbells
    well, you got the idea

    So the no equipment argument is not an excuse, sorry.
    But I get it, you want neglect legs and back (most people do)
    I am not trying to convince you otherwise

    Try your routine and see how it works
    My two cents:
    1. from your pics, you should be in a caloric deficit. Not much, don't starve yourself
    2. correct form and progressive overload (try to add more weight or do more reps when you feel the weight gets easier)
    3. I would focus on one exercise for each muscle group (again, the muscles groups you desire):

    - bench press - 6-8 reps
    - overhead press - 6-8 reps
    - curls - 8-12 reps
    - extensions - 8-12 reps
    - lateral raises 8-12 reps

    Ditch the sevens and the pressups and do some cardio instead
    Sorry for the delayed response. Thanks for taking the time to respond with your advice, it's been very helpful.

    Here's my new plan:

    Day 1

    Pull ups - 3 (This beer gut is making doing more than 3 impossible for me at the moment which is why I'd been avoiding them)
    Bicep curls - 3 x 7 x 17kg
    Bent over rows 4 x 12 x 19kg
    CB Hammer curls - 3 x 7 x 19kg
    Shoulder press - 3 x 6 x 27kg
    Lat raises - 3 x 10 x 10kg

    Cardio - Punch bag / Skipping - 3 x f***ed

    (Completed in 1 hour 45 mins today)


    Day 2

    Pushups - 3 x 12
    Overhead Tricep Extension - 3 x 15 x 30kg
    Chest press - 3 x 7 x 27kg
    Shrugs - 3 x 30 x 27kg
    Dumbbell deadlift - 3 x ?? x 27kg

    Cardio - Punch bag / Skipping - 3 x f***ed

    Day 3 - Rest

    From listening to peoples advice and looking at my pictures, I understand that it was probably stupid to ignore so many muscle groups so hopefully this new workout plan means that I will not be totally neglecting some important muscles.
    I just completed day 1 today and I feel like I've better worked certain muscles that weren't getting properly worked before.

    I'm not using a skipping rope for the skipping which sounds a bit sad but I can focus on giving my calf's a workout as well, which technically means that I'm not skipping leg day now either IMO.

    I'm also going to cut down on my calorie intake.

    Hopefully this is all a big improvement on my original plan, it looks and feels a lot better to me anyway so hopefully the results follow suit. Cheers!
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  16. #46
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    Originally Posted by Bobdabuilder1 View Post

    I'm not using a skipping rope for the skipping which sounds a bit sad but I can focus on giving my calf's a workout as well, which technically means that I'm not skipping leg day now either IMO.
    There is a dumbbell version of Fierce 5. DO it. Stop trying to create your own inferior program. or, if you insist, at least promise not to come back in 3 months complaining about lack of progress.

    Btw, your qouted statement is 100% proof you shouldn't be making your own workout.
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    Originally Posted by CommitmentRulz View Post
    There is a dumbbell version of Fierce 5. DO it. Stop trying to create your own inferior program. or, if you insist, at least promise not to come back in 3 months complaining about lack of progress.

    Btw, your qouted statement is 100% proof you shouldn't be making your own workout.
    I was mostly joking about the not skipping leg day bit. Maybe it didn't come across that way, I understand that a true leg day will involve a lot more than skipping and dumbbell deadlifts.

    I'll be honest with you, I realise that it's likely that you are right. I realise that my opinion is not as valuable as the opinions of those telling me to do fierce 5.

    My problem is that I don't understand. I don't understand why or how a program that focuses a lot on the lower body muscles that I'm not as fussed about and doesn't seem to focus much on the various arm muscles that I care more about could possibly result in my arm and shoulder muscles growing at a much faster pace than a workout that really works the muscles that I want to work on.

    I felt my forearms burning today from the cross body hammer curls, I felt my shoulders burning from the lateral raises and the overhead press, I felt my biceps burning from the bicep curls and my brachialis, back and lats got a workout too. When I did "day 2" the other day I really felt my triceps and my chest being worked, the traps got a workout too. It all feels great.

    These exercises feel like they are working, my body is telling me that my muscles are being worked but people who I assume know their **** are telling me that it's a terrible idea. I would happily switch if I could understand why this workout that burns all of the relevant muscles is so bad.

    Thank you for taking the time to respond and I apologise if I'm coming across as frustrating. I'm sure I should just ignore my instincts, my body and what seems to me to make sense to me and just do as I'm being told by people who know a lot more than I do but I'm struggling to force myself to do it without being able to understand why I'm doing it.
    Last edited by Bobdabuilder1; 07-04-2020 at 12:48 AM.
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    Sorry to bang on about it but I'm curious. Can anybody elaborate on why a workout that feels great and really works each muscle quite hard is going to result in much slower results than a workout that focuses more on other muscles, I'd genuinely love to understand the science behind it. Am I overworking my arm muscles here?

    Are there articles around that can explain why making your own programme is such a bad idea or why professional workout plans make so much difference? I'm genuinely not trying to be a dick here, just really curious and trying to understand.
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    You look like Russell Crowe in the movie Gladiator. That's a good thing.
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    Originally Posted by Bobdabuilder1 View Post
    Sorry to bang on about it but I'm curious. Can anybody elaborate on why a workout that feels great and really works each muscle quite hard is going to result in much slower results than a workout that focuses more on other muscles, I'd genuinely love to understand the science behind it. Am I overworking my arm muscles here?

    Are there articles around that can explain why making your own programme is such a bad idea or why professional workout plans make so much difference? I'm genuinely not trying to be a dick here, just really curious and trying to understand.
    1. Its really hard to overtrain your muscles. But easy to destroy your joints in time.
    2. Depends on what professional workout we talk about. Some of them are completely retarded: the ones where you do 40 sets per workout as a beginner. And there are many of them.
    3. Usually, the "good" workouts plans are better because:
    - they include all major muscle groups
    - they include mostly compounds
    - it includes details regarding the progressive overload proccess (how much should you add each week, for example)
    - it includes details regarding reaching a plateau (what to do when you cannot progress with an exercise)
    - it includes details about warmup sets
    - it has the right amount of volume

    On the other side, there are guys (naturals) that made good progress with their own workout plans.


    By the way, you can only try and see if your workout has success.
    Do it for 4-5 months and see if you have results.
    If not, get on a 'professional workout plans' from the stickies.


    Originally Posted by CommitmentRulz View Post
    There is a dumbbell version of Fierce 5. DO it. Stop trying to create your own inferior program. or, if you insist, at least promise not to come back in 3 months complaining about lack of progress.

    Btw, your qouted statement is 100% proof you shouldn't be making your own workout.
    I can understand why beginners like me want to create their own program instead of choosing one from the internet created by an advanced lifter. I have the same problem. I have read the Fierce 5 thread and others. As a mention, All Pro sounded better/more simple to me.

    Why I have this problem and still insist sometimes on creating my own program:

    1. There are some exercises that I like and cannot find them in Fierce 5 & co. E.g. Farmer walks, lunges. I would like to do, for example, calf raises 3 times a week because they recover very fast and its fun for me. Stuff like these...

    2. very few sets on bis and tris. 3 or 6 sets a week, if I am not mistaken
    a) I know some will say that arms are involved in the compound exercises, but I never felt my bis even a little sore after a back workout (even when I experimented once with a lot of volume on back exercises). I always try to pull with my elbows and include less bicep. Maybe that's why.
    b) Also, bis and tris are quite important for beginners, like it or not. Seing some development in them can give a beginner more confidence.
    c) being small groups, they recover pretty fast. 4-6 sets a week seems not enough for me.

    3. Every other week, you only bench once a week, but you squat every workout. (Fierce 5 novice routine) - I may be wrong, but this is what I understand from the workout
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    Originally Posted by paulinkansas View Post
    You look like Russell Crowe in the movie Gladiator. That's a good thing.
    Why thank you sir, you are too kind



    Originally Posted by jaxqen View Post
    1. Its really hard to overtrain your muscles. But easy to destroy your joints in time.
    2. Depends on what professional workout we talk about. Some of them are completely retarded: the ones where you do 40 sets per workout as a beginner. And there are many of them.
    3. Usually, the "good" workouts plans are better because:
    - they include all major muscle groups
    - they include mostly compounds
    - it includes details regarding the progressive overload proccess (how much should you add each week, for example)
    - it includes details regarding reaching a plateau (what to do when you cannot progress with an exercise)
    - it includes details about warmup sets
    - it has the right amount of volume

    On the other side, there are guys (naturals) that made good progress with their own workout plans.


    By the way, you can only try and see if your workout has success.
    Do it for 4-5 months and see if you have results.
    If not, get on a 'professional workout plans' from the stickies.


    I can understand why beginners like me want to create their own program instead of choosing one from the internet created by an advanced lifter. I have the same problem. I have read the Fierce 5 thread and others. As a mention, All Pro sounded better/more simple to me.

    Why I have this problem and still insist sometimes on creating my own program:

    1. There are some exercises that I like and cannot find them in Fierce 5 & co. E.g. Farmer walks, lunges. I would like to do, for example, calf raises 3 times a week because they recover very fast and its fun for me. Stuff like these...

    2. very few sets on bis and tris. 3 or 6 sets a week, if I am not mistaken
    a) I know some will say that arms are involved in the compound exercises, but I never felt my bis even a little sore after a back workout (even when I experimented once with a lot of volume on back exercises). I always try to pull with my elbows and include less bicep. Maybe that's why.
    b) Also, bis and tris are quite important for beginners, like it or not. Seing some development in them can give a beginner more confidence.
    c) being small groups, they recover pretty fast. 4-6 sets a week seems not enough for me.

    3. Every other week, you only bench once a week, but you squat every workout. (Fierce 5 novice routine) - I may be wrong, but this is what I understand from the workout
    Thanks and apologies again for the delayed response. From looking at the fierce 5 dumbbell routine, I don't feel that it suits me. I now have some exercise bands and a pull up bar so that I can do more exercises if required but I share a lot of the concerns about the fierce 5 routine that you have stated above so I think I will stick with that as that makes sense to me at the moment and I haven't seen any good reason to switch as yet TBH. I also think that the bent over dumbbell rows worked my lats better than banded rows so I may stick with that and pull ups for my lat exercises.

    I think that my understanding falls short when it comes to adding warm up sets in and my workout plan probably falls short when it comes to warm up sets and progressive overload so I should probably look at making a strategy to incorporate that into my workout plan.

    I was really surprised that you consider yourself a beginner, you come across as very knowledgeable to me.
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    Originally Posted by Bobdabuilder1 View Post
    Why thank you sir, you are too kind





    Thanks and apologies again for the delayed response. From looking at the fierce 5 dumbbell routine, I don't feel that it suits me. I now have some exercise bands and a pull up bar so that I can do more exercises if required but I share a lot of the concerns about the fierce 5 routine that you have stated above so I think I will stick with that as that makes sense to me at the moment and I haven't seen any good reason to switch as yet TBH. I also think that the bent over dumbbell rows worked my lats better than banded rows so I may stick with that and pull ups for my lat exercises.

    I think that my understanding falls short when it comes to adding warm up sets in and my workout plan probably falls short when it comes to warm up sets and progressive overload so I should probably look at making a strategy to incorporate that into my workout plan.

    I was really surprised that you consider yourself a beginner, you come across as very knowledgeable to me.
    1.
    A warmup set = a set with 30-40% of your one rep max or a set that allows to do 10 reps easy (for those who don't know what is their one rep max)
    It helps with injuries and with the blood flow
    Usually, people do one warmup set or two if they lift heavier
    One is enough for you, I assume

    2.
    About progressive overload, you can follow all pro's plan
    It's very simple
    https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=4195843

    The first week do all 4 sets for 8 reps.
    The second week do all 4 sets for 9 reps.
    The third week do all 4 sets for 10 reps.
    The fourth week do all 4 sets for 11 reps.
    The fifth week do all 4 sets for 12 reps.
    If you got all of the required reps on the fifth week then increase the weight by 10%
    and repeat the cycle. If you didn't get all of the reps on the fifth week then repeat the cycle with the same weight

    Some complain that the progression is to slow, but for someone who should be in a slight calorie deficit, it shouldn't be a problem.

    3. Clearly Fierce 5 is not for you especially since you don't want to do legs.
    Stick to your routine while using All Pro's progressive overload system and see if it works for a few months.
    If not, try a professional routine.
    All Pro's routine might be more suitable for you in the future.
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    Originally Posted by Bobdabuilder1 View Post
    Sorry to bang on about it but I'm curious. Can anybody elaborate on why a workout that feels great and really works each muscle quite hard is going to result in much slower results than a workout that focuses more on other muscles, I'd genuinely love to understand the science behind it. Am I overworking my arm muscles here?

    Are there articles around that can explain why making your own programme is such a bad idea or why professional workout plans make so much difference? I'm genuinely not trying to be a dick here, just really curious and trying to understand.
    1) a pro knows something you don't yet: Picking and choosing muscle groups eventually makes you look like an spaz with a terrible physique. People who ignore legs, don't give lats enough attention and focus on arms and chest too much ALL (and I mean ALL) realise this later on and ALL wish they had done something more balanced.

    2) you do not realise yet that full body strength (including the core, lower back and leg strength that training your lower body gives you) contributes almost as much to progress in movements like bench press as isolating specific groups. You need a strong base, your body parts all have to co-operate for big lifts.

    3) a pro routine is designed to target your muscle groups with large compounds in the correct balance. Large compounds are going to give you the most bang for your buck gains-wise. Programs need to be intelligently designed around them with other exercises merely as accessory movements. As you don't seem to understand how this works or how to get this balance right you should not be designing a program.

    4) related to point 1: you have assigned yourself random goals now, with no experience. Once you have experience those goals will likely change as you realise that although you're benching more, you don't look any better overall. Your chest is just slightly bulbous and your arms are slightly thicker. You will realise that your bodyshape hasn't changed in an aesthetic way, you will realise your legs look like chicken legs sticking out of a slightly bigger upper body. You will finally grasp that physique is more than just big arms. It is having an aesthetic and strong body with broad shoulders and back, strong legs, thick chest and arms in proportion, nice trap development to complete the picture etc etc. Once you realise those 'muscles you weren't interested in' are throwing the whole image off it is too late and you will wish you'd started on them earlier. THAT is what a pro's routine knows that you don't yet. Trust it and run one

    5) feeling great after a workout proves nothing. Looking great after a year means everything.
    Last edited by AlexSays; 07-07-2020 at 08:44 AM.
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    Originally Posted by AlexSays View Post
    1) a pro knows something you don't yet: Picking and choosing muscle groups eventually makes you look like an spaz with a terrible physique. People who ignore legs, don't give lats enough attention and focus on arms and chest too much ALL (and I mean ALL) realise this later on and ALL wish they had done something more balanced.

    4) related to point 1: you have assigned yourself random goals now, with no experience. Once you have experience those goals will likely change as you realise that although you're benching more, you don't look any better overall. Your chest is just slightly bulbous and your arms are slightly thicker. You will realise that your bodyshape hasn't changed in an aesthetic way, you will realise your legs look like chicken legs sticking out of a slightly bigger upper body. You will finally grasp that physique is more than just big arms. It is having an aesthetic and strong body with broad shoulders and back, strong legs, thick chest and arms in proportion, nice trap development to complete the picture etc etc. Once you realise those 'muscles you weren't interested in' are throwing the whole image off it is too late and you will wish you'd started on them earlier. THAT is what a pro's routine knows that you don't yet. Trust it and run one
    .
    1. Although I agree with you, I don't know if the last part is true. Most guys who skip leg day and get big on the upper body after several years, don't take measures regarding their legs. I've talked with a few at my gym and all of them said they hate doing legs, but I haven't seen them doing more leg work. If they had regrets, they would do something about it.

    4. He said he will do legs when he will get back in the gym. He would have to get quite big on the upper to see such a discrepance between upper and lower. Because he has some fat and he should be on a cut first, it will be harder for him to gain that much muscle mass in the upper. And yeah, I agree that legs are important and lats also, but if he is going to run it for 4-5 months he will not become the Notre Dame Hunchback, like someone said. Hopefully, he will do legs after his experiment.
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    Originally Posted by jaxqen View Post
    1. Although I agree with you, I don't know if the last part is true. Most guys who skip leg day and get big on the upper body after several years, don't take measures regarding their legs. I've talked with a few at my gym and all of them said they hate doing legs, but I haven't seen them doing more leg work. If they had regrets, they would do something about it.
    That's not quite how people work. Guys at my gym that bench more than they squat are ashamed of that so they avoid rather than deal despite what they say. I see them try to squat 1 plate and fail and they give up. These are 2+ plate benchers.

    And this doesn't just happen in the gym. I know a bunch of 30+ year olds that never got their drivers license or graduate high school or even learn to read and after a point, the don't bother worrying about it any more.
    I can tell time. Time cannot tell me.

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    Waiting for this "I'm going to keep changing my routine until you tell me it looks great" thread to hit 3 pages.
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    Originally Posted by air2fakie View Post
    Waiting for this "I'm going to keep changing my routine until you tell me it looks great" thread to hit 3 pages.
    The classic, "I hear you, but are you absolutely sure I can't just DO THIS??"

    Lol gotta cut him some slack though. It can frustrating if you think you're not doing things optimally and it's hard to convince yourself vs convincing others to do the right thing.
    Life is constant learning. Give advice about things you know. Ask questions about things you don't.

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    Originally Posted by jaxqen View Post
    1. Although I agree with you, I don't know if the last part is true. Most guys who skip leg day and get big on the upper body after several years, don't take measures regarding their legs. I've talked with a few at my gym and all of them said they hate doing legs, but I haven't seen them doing more leg work. If they had regrets, they would do something about it.

    4. He said he will do legs when he will get back in the gym. He would have to get quite big on the upper to see such a discrepance between upper and lower. Because he has some fat and he should be on a cut first, it will be harder for him to gain that much muscle mass in the upper. And yeah, I agree that legs are important and lats also, but if he is going to run it for 4-5 months he will not become the Notre Dame Hunchback, like someone said. Hopefully, he will do legs after his experiment.
    1) Hmm I can see your point here, maybe not 'all' then.

    2) I just don't see any reason not to just do legs now then? This kind of attitude to legs is going to carry over to when he does enter the gym

    Over all I agree with you, let people do what they want to do and find their own way. I only chimed in with that because he did genuinely ask what the problem was that he wasn't seeing...
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    Originally Posted by jaxqen View Post
    1.
    A warmup set = a set with 30-40% of your one rep max or a set that allows to do 10 reps easy (for those who don't know what is their one rep max)
    It helps with injuries and with the blood flow
    Usually, people do one warmup set or two if they lift heavier
    One is enough for you, I assume

    2.
    About progressive overload, you can follow all pro's plan
    It's very simple

    The first week do all 4 sets for 8 reps.
    The second week do all 4 sets for 9 reps.
    The third week do all 4 sets for 10 reps.
    The fourth week do all 4 sets for 11 reps.
    The fifth week do all 4 sets for 12 reps.
    If you got all of the required reps on the fifth week then increase the weight by 10%
    and repeat the cycle. If you didn't get all of the reps on the fifth week then repeat the cycle with the same weight

    Some complain that the progression is to slow, but for someone who should be in a slight calorie deficit, it shouldn't be a problem.

    3. Clearly Fierce 5 is not for you especially since you don't want to do legs.
    Stick to your routine while using All Pro's progressive overload system and see if it works for a few months.
    If not, try a professional routine.
    All Pro's routine might be more suitable for you in the future.
    Excellent advice once again and again it is very much appreciated. Good luck with your journey sir, you have been a great help for mine.
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